Total Posts:36|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Is the 14th amendment racist?

xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 12:49:28 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
That's not why it was written and it is not racist but it has had the illusion of granting equal rights when in reality it changed the definition of people to citizens reducing our sovereignty.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:55:49 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Would congress admit that they added the 14th amendment as a way to prevent the Blacks from moving to the north?
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,673
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:59:13 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.

You talk about the conflict between northerners and southerners then say the 14th amendment was racist against Blacks?

Wtf, everything is racist to the regressive left.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 3:03:54 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 2:55:49 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Would congress admit that they added the 14th amendment as a way to prevent the Blacks from moving to the north?

Not sure people living 160 years after the fact can read long dead people's thoughts or motives. Probably some, not others.

Why not focus on the 13tj as it abolished slavery.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 3:24:29 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Congress had a motive to create the 14th amendment that was racist.
If that is what they wanted to do, it worked . Only a few percent of the blacks moved to the north, until Hitler started world war II and they came up to work in factories that were making weapons and other military stuff.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 3:35:50 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 2:59:13 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.

You talk about the conflict between northerners and southerners then say the 14th amendment was racist against Blacks?

Wtf, everything is racist to the regressive left.

You think this guy is left? What happened to your brain?
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,673
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 3:41:19 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 3:35:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 10/26/2016 2:59:13 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.

You talk about the conflict between northerners and southerners then say the 14th amendment was racist against Blacks?

Wtf, everything is racist to the regressive left.

You think this guy is left? What happened to your brain?

dunno i've seen a lot of regressive left-ish statements from him.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 3:49:10 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 3:41:19 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 10/26/2016 3:35:50 AM, TBR wrote:
At 10/26/2016 2:59:13 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.

You talk about the conflict between northerners and southerners then say the 14th amendment was racist against Blacks?

Wtf, everything is racist to the regressive left.

You think this guy is left? What happened to your brain?

dunno i've seen a lot of regressive left-ish statements from him.

OK... If you say so.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 3:52:24 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Do you know if those members of congress did not create the 14th amendment because they thought it would result in fewer Blacks moving North?
It was written in legalese not English, if they had nothing to hide, they might have used language that we all could understand.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 4:20:34 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 3:52:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Do you know if those members of congress did not create the 14th amendment because they thought it would result in fewer Blacks moving North?
It was written in legalese not English, if they had nothing to hide, they might have used language that we all could understand.

Um... which section? There's 5 and they are written in the language of the day. Really only the first section is cited in precedent. I refer to my post 2 in defining citizenship vs. person's as the b.o.r. Referred to us.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 1:22:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Equal protection under the law.
I think this means even if the Blacks were former slaves, they were born in the U.S.A. therefore they have all of the same rights whites do. White men in the south were opposed to this, but that was how things were in the North and would be in the south, whether they liked it or not.
RookieApologist
Posts: 469
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 1:27:45 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 1:22:00 PM, xus00HAY wrote:
Equal protection under the law.
I think this means even if the Blacks were former slaves, they were born in the U.S.A. therefore they have all of the same rights whites do. White DEMOCRATS in the south were opposed to this, but that was how things were in the North and would be in the south, whether they liked it or not.

FYP.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 1:48:40 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Then if you mean section one is racist with the intent to keep former slaves in the south... no I don't agree at all as stated.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:03:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
The white men of the south thought the Blacks should not have the right to vote.
Redneck legislators might have created laws that would compel the Blacks to stay on the plantation and work for such a low wage, that all they could do is pay rent on the cabins they lived in and pay for the food the Master provided.
Robkwoods
Posts: 576
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:05:21 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 4:20:34 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/26/2016 3:52:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Do you know if those members of congress did not create the 14th amendment because they thought it would result in fewer Blacks moving North?
It was written in legalese not English, if they had nothing to hide, they might have used language that we all could understand.

Um... which section? There's 5 and they are written in the language of the day. Really only the first section is cited in precedent. I refer to my post 2 in defining citizenship vs. person's as the b.o.r. Referred to us.

This right here.

The 14th Amendment is the first amendment with language not directly restricting action of the governing body. Constitution is not a list rules for the people, it is a list rules for the government.

Pretty much any of the amendments beyond the 12th could have been handled by a supreme court decision.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:11:49 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 2:05:21 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 10/26/2016 4:20:34 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/26/2016 3:52:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Do you know if those members of congress did not create the 14th amendment because they thought it would result in fewer Blacks moving North?
It was written in legalese not English, if they had nothing to hide, they might have used language that we all could understand.

Um... which section? There's 5 and they are written in the language of the day. Really only the first section is cited in precedent. I refer to my post 2 in defining citizenship vs. person's as the b.o.r. Referred to us.

This right here.

The 14th Amendment is the first amendment with language not directly restricting action of the governing body. Constitution is not a list rules for the people, it is a list rules for the government.

Pretty much any of the amendments beyond the 12th could have been handled by a supreme court decision.

Yet thoughts like ours are considered the 'crazy ones'.
Robkwoods
Posts: 576
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:11:59 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 2:03:20 PM, xus00HAY wrote:
The white men of the south thought the Blacks should not have the right to vote.
Redneck legislators might have created laws that would compel the Blacks to stay on the plantation and work for such a low wage, that all they could do is pay rent on the cabins they lived in and pay for the food the Master provided.

Not all white men. Also this ignores that there were Black plantation owners. Actually reconstruction era was very good for blacks, due to free market playing out. Despite the 14th amendment, elites who felt they were entitled to people's labor pushed for legislation that restricted free market. This legislation was known as Jim Crow.
Robkwoods
Posts: 576
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2016 2:16:22 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 2:11:49 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/26/2016 2:05:21 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 10/26/2016 4:20:34 AM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/26/2016 3:52:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
Do you know if those members of congress did not create the 14th amendment because they thought it would result in fewer Blacks moving North?
It was written in legalese not English, if they had nothing to hide, they might have used language that we all could understand.

Um... which section? There's 5 and they are written in the language of the day. Really only the first section is cited in precedent. I refer to my post 2 in defining citizenship vs. person's as the b.o.r. Referred to us.

This right here.

The 14th Amendment is the first amendment with language not directly restricting action of the governing body. Constitution is not a list rules for the people, it is a list rules for the government.

Pretty much any of the amendments beyond the 12th could have been handled by a supreme court decision.

Yet thoughts like ours are considered the 'crazy ones'.

To think that we could ever get along without a government. That's just crazy talk. Who teach our kids or build our roads or feed the poor?
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2016 3:31:09 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At the time the 14th amendment was created there were no southerners in congress, every body there represented a Yankee state. So these were Yankees governing what the rednecks would do in the future.
The Yankees wanted to free the slaves, but they did not want millions of Black citizens moving into the Northern states.
Remember back then only men could vote, and about a quarter of the younger men of the south had died in the civil war. There were counties down there where the Black population outnumbered the white.
The Redneck legislatures could have created apartheid. Although the Blacks were free and citizens, the southern whites did not want them to vote or take jobs that white men needed.
It was quite possible that the rednecks could have created a society where life was significantly worse for Blacks in the south, then it would be in the North. This could become a powerful incentive for Blacks to move to the north.
So the Yankees in congress amended the constitution so it would enable that supreme court up in Washington to find a law created in the south unconstitutional, and thus they could veto a law written in the south that was particularly discrimintory.
The southerners may not have approved of this, but they should have thought of that before they lost the war.
What happened was the creation of a Black America , a sort of seperate but equal country that was formed among the Black neighborhoods of the south.
I guess back then congress wanted to preserve whatever racial purity we had left in our country.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 4:05:59 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.

There's a difference between racist and racial. Does the 14th Amendment dictate black people inferior to white people?
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 5:38:10 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
No, It just seems that the men who wrote it preferred that the Blacks not move to the North
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 5:49:29 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 5:38:10 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
No, It just seems that the men who wrote it preferred that the Blacks not move to the North

Racism was the norm in that era. Northerners were just as racist as southerners, minus the desire for slavery. There were even a few efforts to return freed slaves to Africa. But the 14th wasn't made to specifically keeps blacks in the south. It made them citizens where theoretically they would be treated as equals to whites in all regions of the US. Most blacks being just freed from slavery didn't have the means to go north, especially when the south tried so hard to force blacks to labor for them under jim crow.
augcaesarustus
Posts: 368
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 6:06:20 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/26/2016 12:43:42 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. At the time it was written every member of congress was a Yankee. When the southern states seceded, their senators and congressmen quit and left Washington*
They would not be back until the southern states were re-admitted to the union.
Those Yankees were aware of the plan for the southern states to begin a policy of segregation, so before those redneck legislators could write a new set of laws for their state the Yankees added the 14th.
Considering the possibility that the confederates might do anything they could to make life difficult for Blacks. If the Blacks could not get the rights they were entitled to down there, perhaps they would move to the North, so they would be treated fairly.
The real reason the 14th amendment was created was to make it less likely the African Americans would move to the North.

*except Andrew Johnson of Tennessee.

As I understand American history, wasn't Reconstruction going peachy, until the so-called 'Great Sellout' when the Republicans promised to withdraw troops in exchange for the Congress approving Rutherford B Hayes as President?

Segregation only started after the Union troops pulled out. If Radical Reconstruction continued, then maybe segregation wouldn't have taken hold of the South?

Therefore you argument about the 14th amendment being implemented so as to prevent African-Americans from migrating north doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the context of Radical Reconstruction.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 1:14:27 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 5:49:29 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 10/28/2016 5:38:10 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
No, It just seems that the men who wrote it preferred that the Blacks not move to the North

Racism was the norm in that era. Northerners were just as racist as southerners, minus the desire for slavery. There were even a few efforts to return freed slaves to Africa. But the 14th wasn't made to specifically keeps blacks in the south. It made them citizens where theoretically they would be treated as equals to whites in all regions of the US. Most blacks being just freed from slavery didn't have the means to go north, especially when the south tried so hard to force blacks to labor for them under jim crow.

The 13th ended slavery. 14th was primarily equal protection... it also redefined us as citizens. The start of the incremental government creep that continues to this day.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 1:55:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
"But the 14th wasn't made to specifically keeps blacks in the south. It made them citizens "
The 13th made them citizens.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 2:35:40 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
" wasn't Reconstruction going peachy, until the so-called 'Great Sellout' when the Republicans promised to withdraw troops in exchange for the Congress approving Rutherford B Hayes as President?"
I don't understand what you mean by "peachy".
The cotton industry had been the goose that laid the golden eggs. It was killed in the civil war. When the ships that exported cotton were stopped by the US Navy blockade of Southern ports, Europeans started growing cotton in India and Egypt, and other places, and when the war was over they didn't need our cotton. Without the cotton money coming from Europe, the reconstruction was a recession that never ended.
Congress never approved of Rutherfraud B. Hayes because he did not get more votes than the other guy in the election. He got more electoral votes so they had to accept him, like it or not. The withdrawal of troops was scheduled to happen and we had to accept those states, like it or not.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 3:44:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/28/2016 1:14:27 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
At 10/28/2016 5:49:29 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 10/28/2016 5:38:10 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
No, It just seems that the men who wrote it preferred that the Blacks not move to the North

Racism was the norm in that era. Northerners were just as racist as southerners, minus the desire for slavery. There were even a few efforts to return freed slaves to Africa. But the 14th wasn't made to specifically keeps blacks in the south. It made them citizens where theoretically they would be treated as equals to whites in all regions of the US. Most blacks being just freed from slavery didn't have the means to go north, especially when the south tried so hard to force blacks to labor for them under jim crow.

The 13th ended slavery. 14th was primarily equal protection... it also redefined us as citizens. The start of the incremental government creep that continues to this day.

Technically the 13th didn't end slavery because it's acceptable as a form of punishment. And I did say the 14th made blacks theoretically equal citizens - but your paranoia about the intent of the 14th is adorable. Like equal protection and due process are curbing your freedom?
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/28/2016 9:48:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
keeping Blacks in the south was one of the reasons for it there were some other reasons too.