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My Thoughts On Pharmaceutical Prices

MakeSensePeopleDont
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10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.
triangle.128k
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10/30/2016 4:15:27 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

+1 good post
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,175
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10/30/2016 1:13:39 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Good post, certainly a lot of truth and good information.
I do not see how it explains cost increases such as the EpiPen. This is a high profile drug, but in my family I have seen similar, with more common meds, in the market a long time, very large price increases.

For Mylan, R/D is about 15 percent of gross profits, marketing and administration about 50 percent.
So FDA requirements do not seem to explain price increases.

I see a connection between ACA and increased medical costs, across the boards, meds included.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol
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Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/30/2016 2:16:35 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Actually closer to 2 billion between testing, licensing, and FDA approval.

The really short answer is we constantly new and more drugs.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,104
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10/30/2016 2:29:08 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Never said otherwise.
mc9
Posts: 1,035
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10/30/2016 7:33:12 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Even as a diabetic who needs prescription drugs you're right, the problem is the stupid insurance companies that will only give you insurance if you don't need
It.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,383
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10/31/2016 1:52:28 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
The Pharmaceutical industry is unusual in that they work on creating new products that will lose huge amounts of money. Why? , because some of the new drugs will be something that is so good that Americans will buy it even though it is overpriced due to price gouging.
While you may think they should not be allowed to do this, If they were not allowed to get away with this, their accountants would say that the management of a drug company is running it straight into the ground buy spending money on new drugs they may not earn a profit on.
One of the reasons why healthcare is so un-affordable is we Americans pay for the drug company's research and development programs, and people in other countries don't.
Hopefully Mr. Trump will become our President, and when his America First! policy goes into effect, a way to get even with the rest of the world will be thought up, and they will be forced to pay their fair share.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...
YYW
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10/31/2016 4:24:16 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Literally almost every aspect of this post is wrong. I work with clients in that industry, and the PR line that big pharma's hired whores parrot (which you have nicely summarized here) isn't even believed by the most die hard producers.

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

You are correct that it's not some big grand conspiracy, in the sense that Big Pharma is sneaking around plotting evil things. They're taking full advantage of a system that enables them to charge incredibly high prices for drugs because no one stops them.

Btw. the reason that Americans pay more for drugs than any other company is because our government allows it, and other governments do not.

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

The premarket approval process at the FDA is a joke, and requires little more than one successful clinical trial. That is why dangerous drugs like certain blood thinners (e.g. Xarelto) were allowed to be introduced into the market when the drug presents tremendous health risks to most of the people who will be taking it.

Also, your figures are way off. Most drugs that have been introduced into the market are not new drugs per se, but modifications of other drugs. Very few truly "new" drugs come into the market, because there isn't a huge market for them. Most of the drugs for which there is a market (e.g. erectile dysfunction) have already been produced and created ten times over. That's a good thing, too, because it means that we have the capacity to meet the majority of people's medical needs.

Antibiotics are the real front line of innovation, though, because of the really alarming increase in highly resistant bacterial strains. The problem is that even though there's a huge demand for new antibiotics, the problem is that we don't have a lot to go on.

That means that the research and development costs (R&D) are going to be tremendous, and risky. Companies who are (understandably) interested in protecting their bottom line don't want to throw money into a research project that right now is little more than shadows and fog.

Governments, on the other hand, can... and that's why Europe and Asia are kind of leading the charge in pharm. innovation in that area whereas American drug companies are falling behind.

The exception to this rule is anti-depressants and other kinds of psychoactive medications; the totality of which are vastly understudied and many of which are much more dangerous than a lot of people appreciate. That line of research, because there is a huge market for it (something like 1/5 americans are on them, I think?) and the research is pretty low risk relative to real research on things that society needs more of (i.e. antibiotics).

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

That is also false. As I mentioned above, the FDA only really requires one successful clinical trial; which means that you may have had 50 clinical trials that failed in the past, but if you get it right once, then your drug just might get premarket approval, and be introduced to US markets.

As a rule, many drugs we have that have been introduced are safe. New drugs, like truly new drugs, may or may not be safe. One of the big problems we have in the FDA right now is that the premarket approval process is like a "one size fits all" kind of approach, meaning that genomic and genetic differences in people aren't taken into account. That screws a lot of things up, because different people's genetic profiles really strongly affects how drugs work in their bodies.

The Europeans are moving towards premarket approval based on phenotype classification, but we're probably about two decades away from getting there ourselves. That's sort of the "cutting edge" aspect of of the industry's development, though.

In any case, we do not have the highest quality. We fall behind Europe, Japan, and most other first world countries to the extent that they require mandatory reporting for all clinical trials rather than only one successful one.

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

This is wrong too. A lot of the research and development for big pharma is done at the taxpayer's expense in public universities or universities which receive public grants. Then, the people who were at those universities get jobs in the private sector and take their intellectual property with them, thereby allowing big pharma to free load off of American tax dollars.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

This is also wrong. The EU, Australia, and other countries collectively bargain with US drug companies which basically have the effect of "If you want to sell your drugs here, then you're going to be allowed only to do it this way." The collective demand in those other countries makes it economically viable for the companies to do business that way, because some profit is better than no profit.

That all said, the "some" profit is a lot. It's more than enough to finance continuing innovation, especially given the extent to which big pharma free loads (read: receives de facto corporate charity) from American taxpayers.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Really, you don't understand anything about the industry because if you did, then you'd have not made this post.
Tsar of DDO
TBR
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10/31/2016 4:35:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 4:24:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Literally almost every aspect of this post is wrong. I work with clients in that industry, and the PR line that big pharma's hired whores parrot (which you have nicely summarized here) isn't even believed by the most die hard producers.

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

You are correct that it's not some big grand conspiracy, in the sense that Big Pharma is sneaking around plotting evil things. They're taking full advantage of a system that enables them to charge incredibly high prices for drugs because no one stops them.

Btw. the reason that Americans pay more for drugs than any other company is because our government allows it, and other governments do not.

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

The premarket approval process at the FDA is a joke, and requires little more than one successful clinical trial. That is why dangerous drugs like certain blood thinners (e.g. Xarelto) were allowed to be introduced into the market when the drug presents tremendous health risks to most of the people who will be taking it.

Also, your figures are way off. Most drugs that have been introduced into the market are not new drugs per se, but modifications of other drugs. Very few truly "new" drugs come into the market, because there isn't a huge market for them. Most of the drugs for which there is a market (e.g. erectile dysfunction) have already been produced and created ten times over. That's a good thing, too, because it means that we have the capacity to meet the majority of people's medical needs.

Antibiotics are the real front line of innovation, though, because of the really alarming increase in highly resistant bacterial strains. The problem is that even though there's a huge demand for new antibiotics, the problem is that we don't have a lot to go on.

That means that the research and development costs (R&D) are going to be tremendous, and risky. Companies who are (understandably) interested in protecting their bottom line don't want to throw money into a research project that right now is little more than shadows and fog.

Governments, on the other hand, can... and that's why Europe and Asia are kind of leading the charge in pharm. innovation in that area whereas American drug companies are falling behind.

The exception to this rule is anti-depressants and other kinds of psychoactive medications; the totality of which are vastly understudied and many of which are much more dangerous than a lot of people appreciate. That line of research, because there is a huge market for it (something like 1/5 americans are on them, I think?) and the research is pretty low risk relative to real research on things that society needs more of (i.e. antibiotics).

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

That is also false. As I mentioned above, the FDA only really requires one successful clinical trial; which means that you may have had 50 clinical trials that failed in the past, but if you get it right once, then your drug just might get premarket approval, and be introduced to US markets.

As a rule, many drugs we have that have been introduced are safe. New drugs, like truly new drugs, may or may not be safe. One of the big problems we have in the FDA right now is that the premarket approval process is like a "one size fits all" kind of approach, meaning that genomic and genetic differences in people aren't taken into account. That screws a lot of things up, because different people's genetic profiles really strongly affects how drugs work in their bodies.

The Europeans are moving towards premarket approval based on phenotype classification, but we're probably about two decades away from getting there ourselves. That's sort of the "cutting edge" aspect of of the industry's development, though.

In any case, we do not have the highest quality. We fall behind Europe, Japan, and most other first world countries to the extent that they require mandatory reporting for all clinical trials rather than only one successful one.

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

This is wrong too. A lot of the research and development for big pharma is done at the taxpayer's expense in public universities or universities which receive public grants. Then, the people who were at those universities get jobs in the private sector and take their intellectual property with them, thereby allowing big pharma to free load off of American tax dollars.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

This is also wrong. The EU, Australia, and other countries collectively bargain with US drug companies which basically have the effect of "If you want to sell your drugs here, then you're going to be allowed only to do it this way." The collective demand in those other countries makes it economically viable for the companies to do business that way, because some profit is better than no profit.

That all said, the "some" profit is a lot. It's more than enough to finance continuing innovation, especially given the extent to which big pharma free loads (read: receives de facto corporate charity) from American taxpayers.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Really, you don't understand anything about the industry because if you did, then you'd have not made this post.

I would like to echo all the points about the university research system. The costly and potentially worthless research is all done well ahead of R&D at the for profit companies. Yea, plenty of fine tuning is done, but YYW is right. Not "new", they are tweaking old drugs (extending patent protections & improve drug) and bringing the new research GIVEN to them from the U system to market.
Reformist
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10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,104
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10/31/2016 7:17:18 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 4:24:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Literally almost every aspect of this post is wrong. I work with clients in that industry, and the PR line that big pharma's hired whores parrot (which you have nicely summarized here) isn't even believed by the most die hard producers.

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

You are correct that it's not some big grand conspiracy, in the sense that Big Pharma is sneaking around plotting evil things. They're taking full advantage of a system that enables them to charge incredibly high prices for drugs because no one stops them.

Btw. the reason that Americans pay more for drugs than any other company is because our government allows it, and other governments do not.

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

The premarket approval process at the FDA is a joke, and requires little more than one successful clinical trial. That is why dangerous drugs like certain blood thinners (e.g. Xarelto) were allowed to be introduced into the market when the drug presents tremendous health risks to most of the people who will be taking it.

Also, your figures are way off. Most drugs that have been introduced into the market are not new drugs per se, but modifications of other drugs. Very few truly "new" drugs come into the market, because there isn't a huge market for them. Most of the drugs for which there is a market (e.g. erectile dysfunction) have already been produced and created ten times over. That's a good thing, too, because it means that we have the capacity to meet the majority of people's medical needs.

Antibiotics are the real front line of innovation, though, because of the really alarming increase in highly resistant bacterial strains. The problem is that even though there's a huge demand for new antibiotics, the problem is that we don't have a lot to go on.

That means that the research and development costs (R&D) are going to be tremendous, and risky. Companies who are (understandably) interested in protecting their bottom line don't want to throw money into a research project that right now is little more than shadows and fog.

Governments, on the other hand, can... and that's why Europe and Asia are kind of leading the charge in pharm. innovation in that area whereas American drug companies are falling behind.

The exception to this rule is anti-depressants and other kinds of psychoactive medications; the totality of which are vastly understudied and many of which are much more dangerous than a lot of people appreciate. That line of research, because there is a huge market for it (something like 1/5 americans are on them, I think?) and the research is pretty low risk relative to real research on things that society needs more of (i.e. antibiotics).

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

That is also false. As I mentioned above, the FDA only really requires one successful clinical trial; which means that you may have had 50 clinical trials that failed in the past, but if you get it right once, then your drug just might get premarket approval, and be introduced to US markets.

As a rule, many drugs we have that have been introduced are safe. New drugs, like truly new drugs, may or may not be safe. One of the big problems we have in the FDA right now is that the premarket approval process is like a "one size fits all" kind of approach, meaning that genomic and genetic differences in people aren't taken into account. That screws a lot of things up, because different people's genetic profiles really strongly affects how drugs work in their bodies.

The Europeans are moving towards premarket approval based on phenotype classification, but we're probably about two decades away from getting there ourselves. That's sort of the "cutting edge" aspect of of the industry's development, though.

In any case, we do not have the highest quality. We fall behind Europe, Japan, and most other first world countries to the extent that they require mandatory reporting for all clinical trials rather than only one successful one.

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

This is wrong too. A lot of the research and development for big pharma is done at the taxpayer's expense in public universities or universities which receive public grants. Then, the people who were at those universities get jobs in the private sector and take their intellectual property with them, thereby allowing big pharma to free load off of American tax dollars.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

This is also wrong. The EU, Australia, and other countries collectively bargain with US drug companies which basically have the effect of "If you want to sell your drugs here, then you're going to be allowed only to do it this way." The collective demand in those other countries makes it economically viable for the companies to do business that way, because some profit is better than no profit.

That all said, the "some" profit is a lot. It's more than enough to finance continuing innovation, especially given the extent to which big pharma free loads (read: receives de facto corporate charity) from American taxpayers.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Really, you don't understand anything about the industry because if you did, then you'd have not made this post.

....So once again, like always, YYW says I'm wrong about everything I say, and YYW works with everybody so he's right. Yeah, sure, I bet.
YYW
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10/31/2016 7:49:24 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 7:17:18 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
....So once again, like always, YYW says I'm wrong about everything I say, and YYW works with everybody so he's right. Yeah, sure, I bet.

I mean while yes I do have specialized knowledge with respect to the subject matter, it's not like it's impossible for people to learn this stuff on their own.

What I would hope, though, is that people don't buy the ostentatious bullsh!t that certain drug companies use to unfvck their PR nightmares that, for example, Mylan Pharm. have unleashed on the industry at large.
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/31/2016 8:13:55 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state

You know, it's ok to say you have no idea what you are talking about and want to learn.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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10/31/2016 8:22:42 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 8:13:55 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state

You know, it's ok to say you have no idea what you are talking about and want to learn.

Corporations should be in charge of their prices, not fixed by the government

I dont see a problem with that
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/31/2016 8:51:40 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 8:22:42 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:13:55 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state

You know, it's ok to say you have no idea what you are talking about and want to learn.

Corporations should be in charge of their prices, not fixed by the government

I dont see a problem with that

Except you said "corporations should be in control of the state.". That is very different.

Anyway, a question back to you. Do you think a free market is best? One where anyone can compete? Free of government interference over corporate activity?
Reformist
Posts: 679
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10/31/2016 9:46:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 8:51:40 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:22:42 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:13:55 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state

You know, it's ok to say you have no idea what you are talking about and want to learn.

Corporations should be in charge of their prices, not fixed by the government

I dont see a problem with that

Except you said "corporations should be in control of the state.". That is very different.

Anyway, a question back to you. Do you think a free market is best? One where anyone can compete? Free of government interference over corporate activity?

Id much rather have a free market system BUT id rather have corporate involvement in the economy rather than the government
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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10/31/2016 10:35:45 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 9:46:20 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:51:40 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:22:42 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:13:55 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state

You know, it's ok to say you have no idea what you are talking about and want to learn.

Corporations should be in charge of their prices, not fixed by the government

I dont see a problem with that

Except you said "corporations should be in control of the state.". That is very different.

Anyway, a question back to you. Do you think a free market is best? One where anyone can compete? Free of government interference over corporate activity?

Id much rather have a free market system BUT id rather have corporate involvement in the economy rather than the government

Well, the pharmaceutical price discussion at hand has a lot to do with anti-free-market. Patents, government protecting intellectual property allowing for these sort of price from company's without ANY competition for a drug.

You say on the one hand, company's are free to charge as they please. You then say, free-markets. Well, the company is not operating in a free market, and that is the very mechanism that allows for outrageous prices without competition. Get it?

And, since we are on the subject. These companies are drafting off the incredible hard work of the scientists in the U system to get all the base research done. That is our tax dollar at work. How about pharma starts doing its own work then, right?
Reformist
Posts: 679
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10/31/2016 10:59:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 10:35:45 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 9:46:20 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:51:40 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:22:42 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 8:13:55 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 7:17:02 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 4:02:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/31/2016 3:57:16 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/31/2016 2:30:25 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2016 1:35:27 PM, Reformist wrote:
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

Companies have the right to increase prices lol

Well, not entirely. Gouging is illegal in almost every state. Profiteering, monopolizing markets. All illegal.

I know im saying that they should be legal

Well, that is not what you said, and the clear majority of your fellow Americans disagree with you. Further, it is just about the most un-american/anti-capitalist thing I can think of to allow for protected monopolies, so...

Corporations should be in control of the state

You know, it's ok to say you have no idea what you are talking about and want to learn.

Corporations should be in charge of their prices, not fixed by the government

I dont see a problem with that

Except you said "corporations should be in control of the state.". That is very different.

Anyway, a question back to you. Do you think a free market is best? One where anyone can compete? Free of government interference over corporate activity?

Id much rather have a free market system BUT id rather have corporate involvement in the economy rather than the government

Well, the pharmaceutical price discussion at hand has a lot to do with anti-free-market. Patents, government protecting intellectual property allowing for these sort of price from company's without ANY competition for a drug.

You say on the one hand, company's are free to charge as they please. You then say, free-markets. Well, the company is not operating in a free market, and that is the very mechanism that allows for outrageous prices without competition. Get it?

And, since we are on the subject. These companies are drafting off the incredible hard work of the scientists in the U system to get all the base research done. That is our tax dollar at work. How about pharma starts doing its own work then, right?

F*ck the free market

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Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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10/31/2016 11:29:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Graphs on pages 12-13 (tables 1,2) are stanfords and DeGrassis review from 96-06 of cost. There's a million different studies, claims, counter claims.

Read a bunch and decide for oneself.

http://www.pharmamyths.net...
lannan13
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11/1/2016 1:05:48 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Just allow more foreign drugs to enter US markets, or try to lower some of the barriers to entry in the pharmaceutical industry as it will help increase competition and lower prices for everyone. If you keep the status quo, then people will suffer as a result.
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Midnight1131
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11/1/2016 1:28:42 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 3:13:08 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Gonna keep this short and sweet here, just need to get this off my chest because I'm getting tired of hearing this:

Pharmaceutical companies are not just randomly gouging Americans because of some grand conspiracy or because nobody will stand up for the consumer. Here are three basic, fundamental reasons why Americans end up paying so much more for medications than other nations:

1) We have the FDA and all of their fire laced hoops to jump through to get and keep medications on shelves which costs companies $500 million to $1 billion to get one medication to market including the 5,000 - 10,000 rejections per each approval of new testing medications.

2) The FDA and other regulations means we have the highest quality and most trustworthy medications offered on the planet

3) Yes, companies need to break even on their operating, R&D, etc. costs each year. Plus they want to make a profit in an extremely high risk business sector. Don't forget, a company must dump SO much capital into new medications, that they are granted 20 year exclusivity patents on the medications in order to get through the FDA AND return a reasonable profit.

4) The BIGGEST contributor to costs of medications in the U.S. is all those western European nations and those modeling after them, which put extremely, and in my opinion, unreasonably low caps on medication consumer prices. These caps cut profits to almost nothing for companies supplying medications to those nations. In order to stay in business, and at the high level they are, these companies must inflate costs where they are legally able to, which unfortunately means the backs of Americans.

I understand the profits brought in by pharmaceutical companies are MASSIVE. However, if you wish to see consumer costs bent down drastically, the target of your frustrations should not be the companies themselves right now; instead, "Phase 1" attacks should be directed at the leaders and citizens who are tanking the industry in their respective nations, which is putting undeserved and unreasonable cost inflation upon the American Citizen.

+1
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Midnight1131
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11/1/2016 1:29:53 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/30/2016 1:13:39 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
Good post, certainly a lot of truth and good information.
I do not see how it explains cost increases such as the EpiPen. This is a high profile drug, but in my family I have seen similar, with more common meds, in the market a long time, very large price increases.

For Mylan, R/D is about 15 percent of gross profits, marketing and administration about 50 percent.
So FDA requirements do not seem to explain price increases.

I see a connection between ACA and increased medical costs, across the boards, meds included.

If Americans were allowed to import drugs from other countries, even Canada at least, then the epipen manufacturers would have more competition, and they would've thought long and hard about raising the prices the way they did.
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Midnight1131
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11/1/2016 1:31:47 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 10/31/2016 1:52:28 PM, xus00HAY wrote:
Hopefully Mr. Trump will become our President, and when his America First! policy goes into effect, a way to get even with the rest of the world will be thought up, and they will be forced to pay their fair share.

Trump's protectionist attitude will jack up prices for drugs, not to mention a load of other commodities. The best way to lower prices of drugs and pharmaceutical products [besides abolishing the FDA of course], is to allow imports from other countries. Companies will think twice before raising the prices for a drug that can be cheaply obtained from elsewhere.
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xus00HAY
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11/1/2016 1:57:28 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
This issue is involved with the American tradition of the hero inventor, a working class or middle class man who invents some marvelous device that improves the lives of everyone at least a little bit, and gets rich.
There is this concept that anyone could come up with a good idea, that may change the world. By granting him a patent There is a chance that he could get rich from his invention, which would compensate him for all the time and effort he put into his work.
The promise of getting rich provides us with an incentive to keep trying to think up something great.
This was over about 100 years ago. Nowadays inventions are made by corporations who have teams of engineers and skilled people, who work with a good patent attorney to create a patent. Getting a patent is just not something a clever guy can do by himself.
Perhaps we should eliminate the patent law, just to show the greedy corporations and patent shysters what we think of them.