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Voting for Clinton

Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/2/2016 7:55:06 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
After months of stumping for Trump, I've finally decided to instead vote for Hillary Clinton.
First of all, I would like to clarify that I am NOT jumping on the Clinton bandwagon. I do not vote based on who everybody else is voting for. I am my own person, and if I still thought that Trump was the better candidate I'd continue to stump for Trump until election day, and then cast my vote for him on November 8. I take a great deal of pride in going against the flow, in being the one differing voice in the room.

My reluctance to vote for Hillary was mainly based in the fact that she's a Democrat, and were John Kasich nominated instead of Trump many Democrats would still vote Clinton simply because she's the Democrat and Kasich's the Republican.
I think by this point I've made it clear that I don't hate Hillary Clinton as a candidate. I don't believe the conspiracy theories about her murdering her husband's lovers/victims, nor do I think that her reaction to Benghazi was a big deal. She definitely screwed up with the whole email thing, but I think it can ultimately be overlooked.
Rather, I simply wanted Trump to win. After all, a victory for Trump would be a sound defeat for political correctness (I hate using this phrase, because it's used ad nauseam by unintelligent people, but it's the appropriate choice of wording to describe this phenomena which has swept the nation). I still think that "political correctness" is a very bad thing, and that a Trump triumph would shut up the social censors, since they'd no longer have any power. I'd also like to see conservative justices appointed to the Supreme Court, if for nothing else that Roe v. Wade might finally be overturned one day.
However, through the administrations of Ronald Reagan and both Bushes abortion has not been outlawed, so it's silly to think that Trump can do what previous Republican presidents haven't been able to do, especially considering that Congress (perhaps even a GOP-controlled congress) would oppose him every step of the way. Finally, I didn't want to see a situation where the GOP failed to take the White House for 12-16 years straight. Eight years Republican, then eight years Democrat, then repeat; that's the way it's supposed to go. But ultimately, america and the GOP will survive 12-16 years of democrat rule. After all, america and the democrats survived 12 years of GOP rule under presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush. The GOP still has solid control over most state governments, and electoral trends suggest that 4-8 years of Clinton will make the GOP more likely to take back the White House later on. Even if the GOP were to collapse, some other conservative party would eventually take its place.

There is one issue more important to me than political correctness and abortion: the triumph of liberal democracy against the rising powers which are Russia and China (especially the latter). China and its allies constitute the greatest existing threat to the US-led order, and to deal with this threat we need an experienced president who knows what she is doing. This isn't the 1920s, the 1930s, or the 1990s: we can't afford 4 to 8 years of incompetent leadership, and Trump clearly doesn't know what he's doing. He'd have advisors, but even with that much his decision-making abilities would still be questionable at best. Clinton is by no means "the most qualified candidates in modern history", but she's qualified enough to make a decent POTUS. And frankly, it'd be amusing to see Bill Clinton as First Gentleman, and to see the people who ruled our country in the 1990s return to power in 2017.
Just to be clear: if the Russo-Chinese axis defeats the US-led international order, we'll see a return to the kind of imperialistic aggression and oppression committed by Germany and Japan during WW2. 70 years of progress in promoting a more peaceful world, one where strong countries don't simply invade and annex the weak, will be reversed almost overnight. And the USA itself could one day fall to foreign powers.
So the question was this: do I want to screw America over partisan politics? Or do I want to suck it up, vote for a Democrat, and help our country triumph against the challenges it faces in the early 21st century?

Let's face it: right now, we need the political establishment. Therefore, I formally endorse Hillary Clinton, even if that doesn't mean much to any of you. I advise all Trump supporters here to reconsider their decision to vote for him.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
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Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/2/2016 8:27:34 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
But how can you resist these adverts? ;o https://m.youtube.com...
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,839
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11/2/2016 8:30:46 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/2/2016 7:55:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
After months of stumping for Trump, I've finally decided to instead vote for Hillary Clinton.
First of all, I would like to clarify that I am NOT jumping on the Clinton bandwagon. I do not vote based on who everybody else is voting for. I am my own person, and if I still thought that Trump was the better candidate I'd continue to stump for Trump until election day, and then cast my vote for him on November 8. I take a great deal of pride in going against the flow, in being the one differing voice in the room.

My reluctance to vote for Hillary was mainly based in the fact that she's a Democrat, and were John Kasich nominated instead of Trump many Democrats would still vote Clinton simply because she's the Democrat and Kasich's the Republican.
I think by this point I've made it clear that I don't hate Hillary Clinton as a candidate. I don't believe the conspiracy theories about her murdering her husband's lovers/victims, nor do I think that her reaction to Benghazi was a big deal. She definitely screwed up with the whole email thing, but I think it can ultimately be overlooked.
Rather, I simply wanted Trump to win. After all, a victory for Trump would be a sound defeat for political correctness (I hate using this phrase, because it's used ad nauseam by unintelligent people, but it's the appropriate choice of wording to describe this phenomena which has swept the nation). I still think that "political correctness" is a very bad thing, and that a Trump triumph would shut up the social censors, since they'd no longer have any power. I'd also like to see conservative justices appointed to the Supreme Court, if for nothing else that Roe v. Wade might finally be overturned one day.
However, through the administrations of Ronald Reagan and both Bushes abortion has not been outlawed, so it's silly to think that Trump can do what previous Republican presidents haven't been able to do, especially considering that Congress (perhaps even a GOP-controlled congress) would oppose him every step of the way. Finally, I didn't want to see a situation where the GOP failed to take the White House for 12-16 years straight. Eight years Republican, then eight years Democrat, then repeat; that's the way it's supposed to go. But ultimately, america and the GOP will survive 12-16 years of democrat rule. After all, america and the democrats survived 12 years of GOP rule under presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush. The GOP still has solid control over most state governments, and electoral trends suggest that 4-8 years of Clinton will make the GOP more likely to take back the White House later on. Even if the GOP were to collapse, some other conservative party would eventually take its place.

There is one issue more important to me than political correctness and abortion: the triumph of liberal democracy against the rising powers which are Russia and China (especially the latter). China and its allies constitute the greatest existing threat to the US-led order, and to deal with this threat we need an experienced president who knows what she is doing. This isn't the 1920s, the 1930s, or the 1990s: we can't afford 4 to 8 years of incompetent leadership, and Trump clearly doesn't know what he's doing. He'd have advisors, but even with that much his decision-making abilities would still be questionable at best. Clinton is by no means "the most qualified candidates in modern history", but she's qualified enough to make a decent POTUS. And frankly, it'd be amusing to see Bill Clinton as First Gentleman, and to see the people who ruled our country in the 1990s return to power in 2017.
Just to be clear: if the Russo-Chinese axis defeats the US-led international order, we'll see a return to the kind of imperialistic aggression and oppression committed by Germany and Japan during WW2. 70 years of progress in promoting a more peaceful world, one where strong countries don't simply invade and annex the weak, will be reversed almost overnight. And the USA itself could one day fall to foreign powers.
So the question was this: do I want to screw America over partisan politics? Or do I want to suck it up, vote for a Democrat, and help our country triumph against the challenges it faces in the early 21st century?

Let's face it: right now, we need the political establishment. Therefore, I formally endorse Hillary Clinton, even if that doesn't mean much to any of you. I advise all Trump supporters here to reconsider their decision to vote for him.

Knew this was going to happen.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/2/2016 8:43:12 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/2/2016 7:55:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
After months of stumping for Trump, I've finally decided to instead vote for Hillary Clinton.
First of all, I would like to clarify that I am NOT jumping on the Clinton bandwagon. I do not vote based on who everybody else is voting for. I am my own person, and if I still thought that Trump was the better candidate I'd continue to stump for Trump until election day, and then cast my vote for him on November 8. I take a great deal of pride in going against the flow, in being the one differing voice in the room.

My reluctance to vote for Hillary was mainly based in the fact that she's a Democrat, and were John Kasich nominated instead of Trump many Democrats would still vote Clinton simply because she's the Democrat and Kasich's the Republican.
I think by this point I've made it clear that I don't hate Hillary Clinton as a candidate. I don't believe the conspiracy theories about her murdering her husband's lovers/victims, nor do I think that her reaction to Benghazi was a big deal. She definitely screwed up with the whole email thing, but I think it can ultimately be overlooked.
Rather, I simply wanted Trump to win. After all, a victory for Trump would be a sound defeat for political correctness (I hate using this phrase, because it's used ad nauseam by unintelligent people, but it's the appropriate choice of wording to describe this phenomena which has swept the nation). I still think that "political correctness" is a very bad thing, and that a Trump triumph would shut up the social censors, since they'd no longer have any power. I'd also like to see conservative justices appointed to the Supreme Court, if for nothing else that Roe v. Wade might finally be overturned one day.
However, through the administrations of Ronald Reagan and both Bushes abortion has not been outlawed, so it's silly to think that Trump can do what previous Republican presidents haven't been able to do, especially considering that Congress (perhaps even a GOP-controlled congress) would oppose him every step of the way. Finally, I didn't want to see a situation where the GOP failed to take the White House for 12-16 years straight. Eight years Republican, then eight years Democrat, then repeat; that's the way it's supposed to go. But ultimately, america and the GOP will survive 12-16 years of democrat rule. After all, america and the democrats survived 12 years of GOP rule under presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush. The GOP still has solid control over most state governments, and electoral trends suggest that 4-8 years of Clinton will make the GOP more likely to take back the White House later on. Even if the GOP were to collapse, some other conservative party would eventually take its place.

There is one issue more important to me than political correctness and abortion: the triumph of liberal democracy against the rising powers which are Russia and China (especially the latter). China and its allies constitute the greatest existing threat to the US-led order, and to deal with this threat we need an experienced president who knows what she is doing. This isn't the 1920s, the 1930s, or the 1990s: we can't afford 4 to 8 years of incompetent leadership, and Trump clearly doesn't know what he's doing. He'd have advisors, but even with that much his decision-making abilities would still be questionable at best. Clinton is by no means "the most qualified candidates in modern history", but she's qualified enough to make a decent POTUS. And frankly, it'd be amusing to see Bill Clinton as First Gentleman, and to see the people who ruled our country in the 1990s return to power in 2017.
Just to be clear: if the Russo-Chinese axis defeats the US-led international order, we'll see a return to the kind of imperialistic aggression and oppression committed by Germany and Japan during WW2. 70 years of progress in promoting a more peaceful world, one where strong countries don't simply invade and annex the weak, will be reversed almost overnight. And the USA itself could one day fall to foreign powers.
So the question was this: do I want to screw America over partisan politics? Or do I want to suck it up, vote for a Democrat, and help our country triumph against the challenges it faces in the early 21st century?

Let's face it: right now, we need the political establishment. Therefore, I formally endorse Hillary Clinton, even if that doesn't mean much to any of you. I advise all Trump supporters here to reconsider their decision to vote for him.

This will happen with lots of good republicans.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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11/2/2016 9:29:17 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
You correctly identified the "least harmful" candidate to the US, but your logic is atrocious. Trump's isolationist foreign policy is probably the only good thing about his campaign. I can't even give him credit for supposedly wanting to appoint pro-life justices because the people on his list would vote the wrong way on literally every other issue.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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11/2/2016 11:53:27 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/2/2016 7:55:06 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
After months of stumping for Trump, I've finally decided to instead vote for Hillary Clinton.
First of all, I would like to clarify that I am NOT jumping on the Clinton bandwagon. I do not vote based on who everybody else is voting for. I am my own person, and if I still thought that Trump was the better candidate I'd continue to stump for Trump until election day, and then cast my vote for him on November 8. I take a great deal of pride in going against the flow, in being the one differing voice in the room.

My reluctance to vote for Hillary was mainly based in the fact that she's a Democrat, and were John Kasich nominated instead of Trump many Democrats would still vote Clinton simply because she's the Democrat and Kasich's the Republican.
I think by this point I've made it clear that I don't hate Hillary Clinton as a candidate. I don't believe the conspiracy theories about her murdering her husband's lovers/victims, nor do I think that her reaction to Benghazi was a big deal. She definitely screwed up with the whole email thing, but I think it can ultimately be overlooked.
Rather, I simply wanted Trump to win. After all, a victory for Trump would be a sound defeat for political correctness (I hate using this phrase, because it's used ad nauseam by unintelligent people, but it's the appropriate choice of wording to describe this phenomena which has swept the nation). I still think that "political correctness" is a very bad thing, and that a Trump triumph would shut up the social censors, since they'd no longer have any power. I'd also like to see conservative justices appointed to the Supreme Court, if for nothing else that Roe v. Wade might finally be overturned one day.
However, through the administrations of Ronald Reagan and both Bushes abortion has not been outlawed, so it's silly to think that Trump can do what previous Republican presidents haven't been able to do, especially considering that Congress (perhaps even a GOP-controlled congress) would oppose him every step of the way. Finally, I didn't want to see a situation where the GOP failed to take the White House for 12-16 years straight. Eight years Republican, then eight years Democrat, then repeat; that's the way it's supposed to go. But ultimately, america and the GOP will survive 12-16 years of democrat rule. After all, america and the democrats survived 12 years of GOP rule under presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush. The GOP still has solid control over most state governments, and electoral trends suggest that 4-8 years of Clinton will make the GOP more likely to take back the White House later on. Even if the GOP were to collapse, some other conservative party would eventually take its place.

There is one issue more important to me than political correctness and abortion: the triumph of liberal democracy against the rising powers which are Russia and China (especially the latter). China and its allies constitute the greatest existing threat to the US-led order, and to deal with this threat we need an experienced president who knows what she is doing. This isn't the 1920s, the 1930s, or the 1990s: we can't afford 4 to 8 years of incompetent leadership, and Trump clearly doesn't know what he's doing. He'd have advisors, but even with that much his decision-making abilities would still be questionable at best. Clinton is by no means "the most qualified candidates in modern history", but she's qualified enough to make a decent POTUS. And frankly, it'd be amusing to see Bill Clinton as First Gentleman, and to see the people who ruled our country in the 1990s return to power in 2017.
Just to be clear: if the Russo-Chinese axis defeats the US-led international order, we'll see a return to the kind of imperialistic aggression and oppression committed by Germany and Japan during WW2. 70 years of progress in promoting a more peaceful world, one where strong countries don't simply invade and annex the weak, will be reversed almost overnight. And the USA itself could one day fall to foreign powers.
So the question was this: do I want to screw America over partisan politics? Or do I want to suck it up, vote for a Democrat, and help our country triumph against the challenges it faces in the early 21st century?

Let's face it: right now, we need the political establishment. Therefore, I formally endorse Hillary Clinton, even if that doesn't mean much to any of you. I advise all Trump supporters here to reconsider their decision to vote for him.

You are smart and clearly are capable of being objective.