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Election Day Violence

Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.

[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,848
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11/6/2016 8:45:17 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...

I'll be boarding up my house.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
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Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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11/6/2016 10:16:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
So myopic... anyone with true critical thinking regardless of 'education' level would break the system, not support the game it is.

Wisest person I've met was homeless with an 8th grade education. Smartest I've met had 3 phds, the first at 20, but couldn't balance their budget.

There is a lesson there...
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,139
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11/6/2016 11:15:35 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Personally I hope the butthurt white nationalists start riots when Trump loses, and I hope the police gun down as many of them as possible. That way, there will be fewer racists alive, and maybe the tea baggers will take a couple inches of cop peen out of their mouths as a result.

Win-win.
Peepette
Posts: 1,238
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11/7/2016 1:10:00 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I do agree with most of your train of thought Mikal. Most of the educated Trumpsters are tired of establishment politics; who can blame them. I too am disgusted with the status quo. But given the alternative of Trump V's the status quo the choice is obvious. I hate it and feel slimy as a result. But Trump is just plain bad and will make the US a laughing stock of the world. This white nationalist movement occurring here and in Europe will have repercussions for decades to come if allowed to take root, never mind Trump's poor indisscript policies that's more fly by the seat of pants than introspective. Either he will be manipulated by the Rep held senate or he'll just piss everyone off due to his lack of depth on the issues. Nothing will get accomplished under his reign and he will be impeached within months, no doubt for misdeeds. He just does not get it. Crashing a wrecking ball into govenment will not alter it's course unless all members down the line senate and house are ousted with more civic minded members replacing the career politicians. New bold thinking is needed up and down the rung. Trump is the insane wrecking ball that will result in a bad end.
U.n
Posts: 214
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11/7/2016 1:56:17 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
My guess is the violence starts at the polling sites.

At the risk of stating the obvious. I would recommend not telling anyone at the polls who you intend to vote for. It's not their business.

And there's bound to be radicals (either side) volunteering as "poll watchers".
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,390
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11/7/2016 2:12:32 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
The riots were predicted to occur if trump won because so many Hispanic people would be getting deported.
Trump supporters feel that the present government is doing a lousy job.
With his lack of experience in politics Trump may not do a better job that the democrats, but he couldn't do any worse.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/7/2016 4:51:39 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/7/2016 2:12:32 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
The riots were predicted to occur if trump won because so many Hispanic people would be getting deported.
Trump supporters feel that the present government is doing a lousy job.
With his lack of experience in politics Trump may not do a better job that the democrats, but he couldn't do any worse.

This post makes virtually no sense. I'm not even quite sure how to respond to this.
GlorifiedOne
Posts: 33
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11/7/2016 10:23:00 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com... : :

Do you think by posting this thread that you're not stirring up fear? Both sides of the election have been stirring up fear like children always do when they don't know what's going on.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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11/7/2016 9:26:58 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...

Only one side has been inciting violence.
Peepette
Posts: 1,238
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11/8/2016 12:48:35 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/7/2016 9:26:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...

Only one side has been inciting violence.



The Veritas video has been discredited by many. http://www.politifact.com...

James O'Keefe has no credibility and has a criminal past. Even FOX news didn't ride on this coat tail due to its incredulousness. It has to be beyond bad if Fox would not use it against Hillary. Only Breitbart , as expected, road this wave. All other news outlets either ignored or discredited the piece.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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11/8/2016 1:14:39 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/8/2016 12:48:35 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 11/7/2016 9:26:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...

Only one side has been inciting violence.



The Veritas video has been discredited by many. http://www.politifact.com...

James O'Keefe has no credibility and has a criminal past. Even FOX news didn't ride on this coat tail due to its incredulousness. It has to be beyond bad if Fox would not use it against Hillary. Only Breitbart , as expected, road this wave. All other news outlets either ignored or discredited the piece.

If it had been discredited, the people in the videos wouldn't have resigned. It is easy to attempt to discredit them based on the past, but these haven't actually been discredited. Just like Wikileaks, is doing a rather bang up job. Bodies are falling all over the place - it is quite fascinating to watch from the outside. The buck stops here with everyone except Hillary.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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11/8/2016 1:35:39 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

No we can't, lol. We can 'logically infer' that most of these people spent 4-8 formative years in an intellectual milieu which is outright hostile to someone like Trump.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

We do like Trump's policies, especially on immigration, trade, and geopolitics. You guys keep saying this as if you're trying to convince yourselves. Most people like Trump for his policies. Very few people like him for his personality; I've definitely met more Trump supporters than you, and very few go 'I just like him as a person'.

My *screw you* to the establishment is the fact that I would vote for ever third party in American before casting my vote for Hillary. Even Gary fvcking Johnson.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Four sources, yet no proof of the claim. Sad!

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence.

Examples? You'd think there would have been outbreaks of violence all over if this were the case.

If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events.

The idea that Trump just stumbled from a few millions dollars to billions and then stumbled through a crowded field to victory is so absurd that it doesn't even merit consideration.

A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

This is why Trump is popular. My grandfather and father both never graduated highschool. My grandfather taught himself how to build, fly, and repair airplanes from books. No classes, so training. He did the same with carpentry and auto repairs. My father can sit down and talk with my brother, who is a college-educated civil engineer, and understand what he is saying, then he can take his schematics and carry them out in practice. He's designed and built a four-story building, rebuilt entire cars, and works as an engineer with nothing but self-training. If you met either of them, you'd probably laugh them off as 'stupid rednecks', but that's because of a deeply seated personality flaw: hubris.

You just think that you're better than other people because you have a certain set of intellectual skills which you've convinced yourself are 'superior'. You go through life looking down on people around you because of the the way they speak or the ideas which they hold, yet if you were dropped off in and immense forest on your own you would probably be dead within weeks. Everyone who you sneer at, everyone who you write off as 'less than you' because they are 'uneducated', or 'don't think logically', may very well be fulfilling some essential function which sustains your life in a modern society, the sum of which forms a firewall between you, a soft, clumsy primate with neat thumbs and a talent for abstraction, from a cold, dangerous world.

This is a disease of our managerial class. They are often, to use the word in it's proper sense, deeply bigoted. Their outgroup is composed of people who speak incorrectly, get a bit too excited about farm equipment and firearms, and lack what might be called urban fashion sense. They're very tolerant of gays, black people, latinos, you name it, but bring out Billy Bob Joe and watch the venom flow.

This is why I hate it when people come and say to me 'oh, your support of Trump is different' because I've learned to talk in a more 'acceptable' manner and don't seem like I belong to their outgroup, then go on to deride 'those dumb rednecks' in a conspiratorial tone. I know who you're talking about. You're talking about my father, my grandfather, my sister, the kid down the road who was always an entrepreneur and an incorrigible gossip, my friend who is a new mother. And you aren't talking about them because you know them, because you've come to judgment about their character, their life story, the skills that they've honed and the trials that they've faced. You're talking about them for the same reason that all bigots do: because you can only feel tall when somebody else is on their knees, and you've found an easy target.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,295
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11/8/2016 1:43:46 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/8/2016 1:35:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

This is why Trump is popular. My grandfather and father both never graduated highschool. My grandfather taught himself how to build, fly, and repair airplanes from books. No classes, so training. He did the same with carpentry and auto repairs. My father can sit down and talk with my brother, who is a college-educated civil engineer, and understand what he is saying, then he can take his schematics and carry them out in practice. He's designed and built a four-story building, rebuilt entire cars, and works as an engineer with nothing but self-training. If you met either of them, you'd probably laugh them off as 'stupid rednecks', but that's because of a deeply seated personality flaw: hubris.

You just think that you're better than other people because you have a certain set of intellectual skills which you've convinced yourself are 'superior'. You go through life looking down on people around you because of the the way they speak or the ideas which they hold, yet if you were dropped off in and immense forest on your own you would probably be dead within weeks. Everyone who you sneer at, everyone who you write off as 'less than you' because they are 'uneducated', or 'don't think logically', may very well be fulfilling some essential function which sustains your life in a modern society, the sum of which forms a firewall between you, a soft, clumsy primate with neat thumbs and a talent for abstraction, from a cold, dangerous world.

This is a disease of our managerial class. They are often, to use the word in it's proper sense, deeply bigoted. Their outgroup is composed of people who speak incorrectly, get a bit too excited about farm equipment and firearms, and lack what might be called urban fashion sense. They're very tolerant of gays, black people, latinos, you name it, but bring out Billy Bob Joe and watch the venom flow.

This is why I hate it when people come and say to me 'oh, your support of Trump is different' because I've learned to talk in a more 'acceptable' manner and don't seem like I belong to their outgroup, then go on to deride 'those dumb rednecks' in a conspiratorial tone. I know who you're talking about. You're talking about my father, my grandfather, my sister, the kid down the road who was always an entrepreneur and an incorrigible gossip, my friend who is a new mother. And you aren't talking about them because you know them, because you've come to judgment about their character, their life story, the skills that they've honed and the trials that they've faced. You're talking about them for the same reason that all bigots do: because you can only feel tall when somebody else is on their knees, and you've found an easy target.

That's a very moving story.
Peepette
Posts: 1,238
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11/8/2016 2:04:10 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/8/2016 1:14:39 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/8/2016 12:48:35 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 11/7/2016 9:26:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...

Only one side has been inciting violence.



The Veritas video has been discredited by many. http://www.politifact.com...

James O'Keefe has no credibility and has a criminal past. Even FOX news didn't ride on this coat tail due to its incredulousness. It has to be beyond bad if Fox would not use it against Hillary. Only Breitbart , as expected, road this wave. All other news outlets either ignored or discredited the piece.

If it had been discredited, the people in the videos wouldn't have resigned. It is easy to attempt to discredit them based on the past, but these haven't actually been discredited. Just like Wikileaks, is doing a rather bang up job. Bodies are falling all over the place - it is quite fascinating to watch from the outside. The buck stops here with everyone except Hillary.

Please look at the reports from the reputable news sources I provided. I'm not saying Hillary is not slick or underhanded, but in this case it's all manufactured. Furthermore, this has Trump's thumb prints all over it. Former head of Breitbart now works for Trump and he also contributed a substantial sum to Veritas just prior to his announcement to run as POTUS.

http://mediamatters.org...
http://www.businessinsider.com...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
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11/8/2016 4:40:19 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/8/2016 2:04:10 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 11/8/2016 1:14:39 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/8/2016 12:48:35 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 11/7/2016 9:26:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.

Why are you voting for Trump?

"Because he will make America great again"

How will he make America great again?

"Because he is Trump"

...So why are you voting for him specifically

etc

It just takes one person acting on emotion in response to something they perceive as a constitutional violation in order to start violence, and Trump is spurring it on like it's his own personal horse. Trump's rherotirc is encouraging rebel groups, and other people who are not that informed to take matters into their own hands and fight for against an invisible threat.

All we can do is wait and see, but seeing a riot or two, or even a shooting in response to Hillary stomping Trump this tuesday would not surprise me. It would not even suprise me if Trump called for a response from his voters if he loses. Despite the media blowing up the chances of election day violence, it's actually a very real concern at this point, at least more so than any other election in recent history.



[1] http://www.people-press.org...
[2] https://www.oathkeepers.org...
[3] http://www.usatoday.com...
[4] http://www.usatoday.com...
[5] http://www.voanews.com...

Only one side has been inciting violence.



The Veritas video has been discredited by many. http://www.politifact.com...

James O'Keefe has no credibility and has a criminal past. Even FOX news didn't ride on this coat tail due to its incredulousness. It has to be beyond bad if Fox would not use it against Hillary. Only Breitbart , as expected, road this wave. All other news outlets either ignored or discredited the piece.

If it had been discredited, the people in the videos wouldn't have resigned. It is easy to attempt to discredit them based on the past, but these haven't actually been discredited. Just like Wikileaks, is doing a rather bang up job. Bodies are falling all over the place - it is quite fascinating to watch from the outside. The buck stops here with everyone except Hillary.

Please look at the reports from the reputable news sources I provided. I'm not saying Hillary is not slick or underhanded, but in this case it's all manufactured. Furthermore, this has Trump's thumb prints all over it. Former head of Breitbart now works for Trump and he also contributed a substantial sum to Veritas just prior to his announcement to run as POTUS.

http://mediamatters.org...
http://www.businessinsider.com...

I've read similar before. It doesn't discredit the actual videos. It may at most imply that the connotation of the videos possibly isn't as bad as it seems. However, there is no doubt as to the content presented.

It is the same as Clinton saying the Russians are behind Wikileaks. It may or may not be true (I'm inclined to believe not myself based on Assange's own testimony). The problem is that no matter how they came to be in Wikileak's hand, they are authentic. They show corruption and abuse by the Clintons and the DNC. It is sad that the media didn't do its job in the first place and bring much of this to light on their own. Instead they shoot the messenger for the revealing the crimes being committed.

I'm just glad that we are too apathetic in this nation to have politicians who are smart enough to even try anything grandiose. We had one politician being pilloried for having a $10 glass of orange juice while on a government trip.... Sad I know...
Peepette
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11/8/2016 2:10:17 PM
Posted: 1 month ago

I've read similar before. It doesn't discredit the actual videos. It may at most imply that the connotation of the videos possibly isn't as bad as it seems. However, there is no doubt as to the content presented.

It is the same as Clinton saying the Russians are behind Wikileaks. It may or may not be true (I'm inclined to believe not myself based on Assange's own testimony). The problem is that no matter how they came to be in Wikileak's hand, they are authentic. They show corruption and abuse by the Clintons and the DNC. It is sad that the media didn't do its job in the first place and bring much of this to light on their own. Instead they shoot the messenger for the revealing the crimes being committed.

I'm just glad that we are too apathetic in this nation to have politicians who are smart enough to even try anything grandiose. We had one politician being pilloried for having a $10 glass of orange juice while on a government trip.... Sad I know...

I don't think the Russians are behind Wikileaks, although they did hack the DNC; and yes I believe they are true as well. I also agree the media is filled with and run by a bunch of agenda based numb skulls on both side of the street. Both parties are guilty of shady dealings and Clinton by no means is a saint, she's as slick a they come. We can both agree on these points. But the Veritas video is so highly edited and O'Keefe's history is so incredibly lacking in journalistic integrity, his portrayal of any topic cannot be taken seriously. You have a point about journalistic apathy, but running down the same rabbit hole as the conspiracy mongers only further takes us away from the truth and exacerbates the problem we have with the media.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,139
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11/8/2016 2:24:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/8/2016 1:35:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
You just think that you're better than other people because you have a certain set of intellectual skills which you've convinced yourself are 'superior'. You go through life looking down on people around you because of the the way they speak or the ideas which they hold, yet if you were dropped off in and immense forest on your own you would probably be dead within weeks. Everyone who you sneer at, everyone who you write off as 'less than you' because they are 'uneducated', or 'don't think logically', may very well be fulfilling some essential function which sustains your life in a modern society, the sum of which forms a firewall between you, a soft, clumsy primate with neat thumbs and a talent for abstraction, from a cold, dangerous world.
That's nice and all but nobody is getting dropped in the forest alone. That's prepper fantasy-land stuff. Completely irrelevant!
This is a disease of our managerial class. They are often, to use the word in it's proper sense, deeply bigoted. Their outgroup is composed of people who speak incorrectly, get a bit too excited about farm equipment and firearms, and lack what might be called urban fashion sense. They're very tolerant of gays, black people, latinos, you name it, but bring out Billy Bob Joe and watch the venom flow.
Yes all urban people are bigoted against rural whites, just like all rural whites are bigoted against blacks, muslims and hispanics. Oh wait, that's not how that works at all. Also, urban fashion sense?? Seriously? Have you even been to a city like NY? Please tell me what the urban fashion sense is there because for the life of me I cannot figure it out.
This is why I hate it when people come and say to me 'oh, your support of Trump is different' because I've learned to talk in a more 'acceptable' manner and don't seem like I belong to their outgroup, then go on to deride 'those dumb rednecks' in a conspiratorial tone. I know who you're talking about. You're talking about my father, my grandfather, my sister, the kid down the road who was always an entrepreneur and an incorrigible gossip, my friend who is a new mother. And you aren't talking about them because you know them, because you've come to judgment about their character, their life story, the skills that they've honed and the trials that they've faced. You're talking about them for the same reason that all bigots do: because you can only feel tall when somebody else is on their knees, and you've found an easy target.
Look, there are perfectly good rural people just as there are perfectly good urban people. Some people are prejudiced against one or the other, but in my book as long as you're a decent human being, you are fine. I don't know anything about your family, but if they vote Republican, I don't really care. On the other hand, if they think black people deserve to be murdered by cops with no repercussions, or that Hispanic people who have lived here since they were children should be deported, or that Muslims should be banned from coming to the US, then yes they are racist trash. And calling a spade a spade doesn't make me bigoted against rural whites. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
YYW
Posts: 36,305
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11/8/2016 2:35:05 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
The victim complex that working class whites have is absurd. The narrative is as typical as the mood: whenever liberals get superior, white people go out and find some glorious example of an idealized working class white guy and are like "this is who you're talking about," as if somehow their father, brother, mother, or whatever are a representative sample of what people form the Republican base.

The reality is that lack of education *does* correlate to inclination to support Trump. Sure, people can have autodidactic inclinations and it's entirely possible that they can make a good name for themselves in that rite. Abe Lincoln became a lawyer and president that way. That doesn't change the reality that, as a general matter, most people who support Trump do so because they blindly think he will make "america great again."

I'll add this, though. When I bash that kind of Republicans, I'm talking about members of *my* family as much as I'm talking about other people's families. I'm talking about the independent types who are highly skeptical of outsiders, who live away from cities and disengaged from political reality (because the only thing they listen to is FOX news and Rush). And, worth nothing is the fact that THE MAJORITY OF THOSE PEOPLE do not support gay marriage, gay rights, gay equality, or anything of the sort. The majority think that their religion requires them to pass laws discriminating against people like me, and are too stupid and recalcitrant to understand why they're wrong.

So, that's why I tend to dismiss arguments from, as we shall call it, "blue collar sainthood." They may be fine people, but most of them would prefer that I not be able to marry; that I not have equal rights under the law; and that companies be allowed to deny me service or discriminate against me because their "sincerely held" religious beliefs conflict with respecting others' dignity. It's repulsive.
Tsar of DDO
Scruggs
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11/8/2016 3:14:05 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/6/2016 8:34:09 PM, Mikal wrote:
The prospect of this occurring is actually very high this year. Trump has pandered to a certain type of audience, and it's the people who are fed up with establishment politics. Avoiding generalization and painting with too broad of a brush, the people he has targeted often tend to be less informed for a variety of reasons including education, religion, and socio-economic factors. His main voter demographic is white males and people who have not finished college[1]. People who have gone as far as Post Grad School or have any degree are twice as likely to vote for Clinton. This should be self-explanatory but we can logically infer this is because of their ability to understand policies, proposals, and the effects this election could have on the country. They also have a higher chance to look past the media.
I would not say that people who support Trump are "less informed." You named a few reasons and I will address each:

1) Education
Trump is doing well with the demographic of high school and below as well as some college. [1] College graduates are more likely to vote for Clinton, but that is not to say that they are more informed. Anyone can be informed regardless of their education level. In fact, the majority of people in the US do not hold a college degree. [2] If anything, I believe that the reason college grads tend to lean left is because they have been stuck in leftist institutions for so long. [3] Every professor I know at my university is an avid Clinton supporter and they are vocal about it. If you stay in here long enough, their left-leaning assignments and readings will get to the unaware.

2) Religion
Once again, I do not believe religion inherently plays a role in being informed politically. And, once again, the majority of the US is religious. There are plenty of faith-based voter guides and political dialogues happening across the nation.

3) Socio-economic
And finally, I believe that this (like the above two) does not play into how well a voter is informed. Trump is leading Hillary Clinton by rather large margins in the middle and upper-class demographics. [1] Are you suggesting that poor voters are the ones who are more informed?

Even then I think the studies are flawed. There is still a *decent* number of Post Grads, and college educated people voting for Trump. The issue with that is they usually are not actually voting for Trump but voting anti-establishment and just using Trump as the catalyst to "shake things up". I think when you actually look at people who are voting for Trump for his policies and because they actually want him to run the country, the number would be something like 6 to 1.
And what is your evidence of college educated and post grad individuals voting for Trump to simply "shake things up"? Is there a statistic to support this? Was there a poll conducted? And on what grounds are you making the "6 to 1" number?

I said all that to tie into the OP. That means the core base of Trump voters who want him in office for his policies and because they actually think he will do a good job are more than likely not that educated[1]. Refer back to 1 and the assumption that quite a few people are voting for him just as a vote to say *screw you* to the establishment (See DDO, Thett3, Skep, Rom, Parrot, etc). There are quite a few people that carry this view.
While Trump is attracting the lesser educated individuals, that is the majority of the country. And I do not agree that less education somehow results in more ignorance. Universities and colleges do not particularly care to endorse critical thinking. As a college student, I do my assignments based on pandering to the beliefs of the professor(s). It really does not require any critical thinking. They advertise their leftist slants and atheistic worldviews and I parrot it back to them in my assignments. They are none the wiser. And ultimately, neither am I.

Now with his core base and Trump claiming that the *election is rigged*, or that *the system is flawed* it's encouraging certain groups that tend not to be that educated to try and take vote moderation into their own hands [2][3][4][5]
And the Supreme Court has had no issue with that. [4]

Now I will be the first to admit that the media probably spins this for a news angle. However, it's still factual that Trump's rhetoric, when used at his targeted audience, can set in motion events that could lead to violence. His rhetoric is filled with "Crooked Hillary", "Rigging the Election", "I may not accept the results", or even encouraging people to act as vigilante poll watchers. The major problem with this is that it just takes one person perceiving something as rigged to spur violence. If we know anything about Trump is that he reacts on impulse and emotion. He is not methodical with his practices or responses, and it's often fueled by situational events. A lot of his target audience are likely to respond the same way. I mean if you look at a general Trump supporter (that is not educated), it's often the same type of rhetoric or remarks. Use Triangle or Bronto as an example, just from DDO. If you make a remark or post that is anti-Trump, instead of tackling the post they either respond with ad homs, vague generalizations, or stuff that is completely unrelated to the post. The people I interact with in real life who support Trump are often the same. The logic for why they support trump is usually circular.
How is it "factual" that his "rhetoric" leads to violence? Last time I checked, it was the DNC planting paid individuals to cause trouble at Trump rallies. [5] And, as I noted above, the Supreme Court expressed no issue with poll watchers. In regard to Trump responding based on impulse and emotion, so what? That is specifically what people like about him as a candidate. He distinguished himself in the primaries by not being careful, by stepping on other people's toes, and being careless in his demeanor. It is no different now. He smacks people with zingers regardless of the situation. In the debates he embarrassed Hillary, he went way overboard at the Al Smith dinner, and he continues to carry on his tongue and cheek dialogue at rallies. So while some people may find that to be an issue, it is what makes him appealing to others.

[1] http://graphics.latimes.com...
[2] http://hechingerreport.org...
[3] http://www.cwu.edu...
[4] http://www.westernjournalism.com...
[5] https://www.youtube.com...
"If a man does not put himself in the attitude of a sinner, his prayer will not be heard before God." A brother asked him, "what is a sinful soul?" And St. Abba Moses replied, "Everyone who bears his own sins, and does not consider those of his companion."
Skepsikyma
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11/8/2016 4:10:50 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/8/2016 2:24:20 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 11/8/2016 1:35:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
You just think that you're better than other people because you have a certain set of intellectual skills which you've convinced yourself are 'superior'. You go through life looking down on people around you because of the the way they speak or the ideas which they hold, yet if you were dropped off in and immense forest on your own you would probably be dead within weeks. Everyone who you sneer at, everyone who you write off as 'less than you' because they are 'uneducated', or 'don't think logically', may very well be fulfilling some essential function which sustains your life in a modern society, the sum of which forms a firewall between you, a soft, clumsy primate with neat thumbs and a talent for abstraction, from a cold, dangerous world.
That's nice and all but nobody is getting dropped in the forest alone. That's prepper fantasy-land stuff. Completely irrelevant!

My point is that modern society is dependent on a lot of different people cooperating together, and that when people go around snidely deriding other people they are literally deriding people who form part of the system which creates that comfy alternative to 'prepper-fantasy-land'. And believe me, nobody who has tried to do it fantasizes about it. Surviving is brutally difficult, and it's not anything to look forward to. It builds character to do it for a limited time, but it's not an appealing lifestyle.

This is a disease of our managerial class. They are often, to use the word in it's proper sense, deeply bigoted. Their outgroup is composed of people who speak incorrectly, get a bit too excited about farm equipment and firearms, and lack what might be called urban fashion sense. They're very tolerant of gays, black people, latinos, you name it, but bring out Billy Bob Joe and watch the venom flow.

Yes all urban people are bigoted against rural whites, just like all rural whites are bigoted against blacks, muslims and hispanics. Oh wait, that's not how that works at all.

I didn't say urban people, I said 'managerial class'. So, mostly, upper-middle-class to affluent white people with a sprinkling of minorities whom they tolerate, in their saintly patience, because they've learned to speak, dress, and think properly.

Most rednecks don't hate black people or muslims. They just recognize that multiculturalism creates real, serious problems. It's not just 'wow, guys, we have all of these cool new restaurants, now let me go back to my all-white suburbs and wax poetic about the great virtues of diversity'. Rednecks, for example, are often for the most part perfectly capable of looking at the Middle East and seeing it as a waste of human life. Sure, there are @ssholes who don't, but those exist on most sides.

Also, urban fashion sense?? Seriously? Have you even been to a city like NY? Please tell me what the urban fashion sense is there because for the life of me I cannot figure it out.

I meant that Trump supporters tend to wear things like flannel and camo, which the urbane love to mock. Not that there's some metropolitan dress code.

This is why I hate it when people come and say to me 'oh, your support of Trump is different' because I've learned to talk in a more 'acceptable' manner and don't seem like I belong to their outgroup, then go on to deride 'those dumb rednecks' in a conspiratorial tone. I know who you're talking about. You're talking about my father, my grandfather, my sister, the kid down the road who was always an entrepreneur and an incorrigible gossip, my friend who is a new mother. And you aren't talking about them because you know them, because you've come to judgment about their character, their life story, the skills that they've honed and the trials that they've faced. You're talking about them for the same reason that all bigots do: because you can only feel tall when somebody else is on their knees, and you've found an easy target.

Look, there are perfectly good rural people just as there are perfectly good urban people. Some people are prejudiced against one or the other, but in my book as long as you're a decent human being, you are fine. I don't know anything about your family, but if they vote Republican, I don't really care.

Good. I'm not talking about you then. I'm talking about people who go around sneering at people who are 'unintelligent' because they didn't go to the right school or speak the proper dialect.

On the other hand, if they think black people deserve to be murdered by cops with no repercussions, or that Hispanic people who have lived here since they were children should be deported, or that Muslims should be banned from coming to the US, then yes they are racist trash. And calling a spade a spade doesn't make me bigoted against rural whites. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

Nobody thinks that 'hispanics' should be deported. Puerto Rico is a US territory, for Christ's sake. And Muslims aren't a race. So the idea that our immigration laws being enforced, or a prohibition based on ideology, are 'racist' just doesn't make sense. Very few people think that 'a-rabs' or 'hispanics' are a problem to be removed. A lot of people don't want to see people who believe the things that Salafi and Deobandi Muslims believe coming to this country. A lot of people think that having a border and rule of law is a good thing. If they can be accused of anything credibly, it would be ignorance of the nuances of Islamic ideology, which is hardly a sin which they alone are guilty of. 98% of people in this country are almost completely ignorant of Middle-Eastern history and Islamic theology.

I agree with you on black people being murdered by cops, and I think that the tribalism around that issue brings out the worst in everyone.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Romanii
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11/8/2016 5:05:03 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/7/2016 1:10:00 AM, Peepette wrote:
I do agree with most of your train of thought Mikal. Most of the educated Trumpsters are tired of establishment politics; who can blame them. I too am disgusted with the status quo.

Excellent.

But given the alternative of Trump V's the status quo the choice is obvious. I hate it and feel slimy as a result. But Trump is just plain bad and will make the US a laughing stock of the world.

Until they see the man in action, sure...

This white nationalist movement occurring here and in Europe will have repercussions for decades to come if allowed to take root,

Racism is only going to get worse under Hillary. With her lack of effective anti-terrorism policies, her refusal to do anything about the various socioeconomic problems associated with illegal immigration, and her support of the #blacklivesmatter anti-police agenda. Race relations are going to sour beyond repair, and white nationalism will only gain more momentum.

never mind Trump's poor indisscript policies that's more fly by the seat of pants than introspective. Either he will be manipulated by the Rep held senate or he'll just piss everyone off due to his lack of depth on the issues.

The president doesn't need to be an expert on policy specifics. He just needs to have general vision for where he wants the country to go. Trump's vision is bipartisan, and has support from a majority of Americans (#NeverTrumpers across the entire political spectrum would agree with several aspects of his platform if they cared to take a look at it), He can definitely get stuff implemented.

Nothing will get accomplished under his reign and he will be impeached within months, no doubt for misdeeds. He just does not get it. Crashing a wrecking ball into govenment will not alter it's course unless all members down the line senate and house are ousted with more civic minded members replacing the career politicians. New bold thinking is needed up and down the rung. Trump is the insane wrecking ball that will result in a bad end.

You underestimate Trump. His large & passionate supporter base will allow him to utilize the bully pulpit more effectively than any of the last few presidents -- the only thing that scares a politician more than losing their funding is a mutiny among their constituents. He's already started to push the Republican policy agenda leftwards before even becoming president... additionally, he's a strong negotiator, has a tireless work ethic, and isn't bound to any corporate interests. If there's anybody who can put the establishment in line, it's him.
Peepette
Posts: 1,238
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11/8/2016 6:04:33 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 5:05:03 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 11/7/2016 1:10:00 AM, Peepette wrote:
I do agree with most of your train of thought Mikal. Most of the educated Trumpsters are tired of establishment politics; who can blame them. I too am disgusted with the status quo.

Excellent.

But given the alternative of Trump V's the status quo the choice is obvious. I hate it and feel slimy as a result. But Trump is just plain bad and will make the US a laughing stock of the world.

Until they see the man in action, sure...

This white nationalist movement occurring here and in Europe will have repercussions for decades to come if allowed to take root,

Racism is only going to get worse under Hillary. With her lack of effective anti-terrorism policies, her refusal to do anything about the various socioeconomic problems associated with illegal immigration, and her support of the #blacklivesmatter anti-police agenda. Race relations are going to sour beyond repair, and white nationalism will only gain more momentum.

never mind Trump's poor indisscript policies that's more fly by the seat of pants than introspective. Either he will be manipulated by the Rep held senate or he'll just piss everyone off due to his lack of depth on the issues.

The president doesn't need to be an expert on policy specifics. He just needs to have general vision for where he wants the country to go. Trump's vision is bipartisan, and has support from a majority of Americans (#NeverTrumpers across the entire political spectrum would agree with several aspects of his platform if they cared to take a look at it), He can definitely get stuff implemented.

Nothing will get accomplished under his reign and he will be impeached within months, no doubt for misdeeds. He just does not get it. Crashing a wrecking ball into government will not alter it's course unless all members down the line senate and house are ousted with more civic minded members replacing the career politicians. New bold thinking is needed up and down the rung. Trump is the insane wrecking ball that will result in a bad end.

You underestimate Trump. His large & passionate supporter base will allow him to utilize the bully pulpit more effectively than any of the last few presidents -- the only thing that scares a politician more than losing their funding is a mutiny among their constituents. He's already started to push the Republican policy agenda leftwards before even becoming president... additionally, he's a strong negotiator, has a tireless work ethic, and isn't bound to any corporate interests. If there's anybody who can put the establishment in line, it's him.

I could respond and dismiss most of your statements, but I really just don't have the energy anymore to swing a bat at Trumpster bubble balls. Need to preserve my rotor cuff from excessive use and it's sore at this point. It's over, Hillary has won. Not that she's a good choice, but an alternative to Trump with his heinous economic and tax policies and wasteful $25B "beautiful" wall project. Hopefully after suffering 4 more years of the status quo and a do nothing government. The parties will finally wake up to realize they have to change and bring substantive candidates to the game or a "real" 3rd party candidate step could up to the plate. We can only hope.
Romanii
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11/8/2016 7:03:46 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 6:04:33 PM, Peepette wrote:
I could respond and dismiss most of your statements, but I really just don't have the energy anymore to swing a bat at Trumpster bubble balls.

Then remain silent. As far as I'm concerned, you have no good response, just like every other anti-Trumper I've met.
Peepette
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11/8/2016 7:17:24 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 7:03:46 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 11/8/2016 6:04:33 PM, Peepette wrote:
I could respond and dismiss most of your statements, but I really just don't have the energy anymore to swing a bat at Trumpster bubble balls.

Then remain silent. As far as I'm concerned, you have no good response, just like every other anti-Trumper I've met.

Youthful ignorance and denial will only get you so far.
Romanii
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11/8/2016 7:35:30 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
+100000 to everything Skep said. Culture is what differentiates Trump supporters from non-Trump supporters.

College-educated people (and their kids) tend to cling to norms of professionalism & political correctness, which causes them to be inherently repulsed by the way Trump talks and biases them against seriously evaluating him as a candidate. That's why the go-to rationale of most anti-Trumpers is "he's a buffoon" or some similarly unsubstantive one-liner.

But really, Trump just talks like the average working class American. They see nothing wrong with Trump's disregard for the said norms of "polite" society. In fact, they admire it and relish the sight of him attacking the condescending elitists who've looked down upon them for so long. They love his style, almost as much as they love his pragmatic-populist policy vision.

People who try to pin Trump's support on a lack of education, or racism, or some sort of blind irrational rage... they're delusional. Adherence to a particular set of cultural norms doesn't indicate anything beyond individual upbringing. On the other hand, attributing moral/intellectual superiority to superficial cultural differences is indicative of a disturbingly arrogant bigotry.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/8/2016 7:55:24 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/8/2016 7:35:30 PM, Romanii wrote:

But really, Trump just talks like the average working class American.

Lol, so why doesn't he appeal more to working class non-whites?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!