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Why the Democrats lost

tajshar2k
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11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office. You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.

For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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11/9/2016 10:16:38 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office.

This is as far as I got before I realized how retarded this post was

You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
tajshar2k
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11/9/2016 10:17:48 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:16:38 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office.

This is as far as I got before I realized how retarded this post was

You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.

So Clinton was your ideal candidate?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
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11/9/2016 10:26:40 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to a real rebuttal to this, I seriously cant' fathom any other big reason why the Democrats lost.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Omniscient_Debater
Posts: 285
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11/9/2016 10:34:29 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:26:40 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to a real rebuttal to this, I seriously cant' fathom any other big reason why the Democrats lost.

I think Imabench is trying to say that it's not the Democratic party's fault, WE voted for Hillary. We got her elected.
tajshar2k
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11/9/2016 10:35:23 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:34:29 PM, Omniscient_Debater wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:26:40 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to a real rebuttal to this, I seriously cant' fathom any other big reason why the Democrats lost.

I think Imabench is trying to say that it's not the Democratic party's fault, WE voted for Hillary. We got her elected.

I would assume members of the Democratic party voted for her... after all you need to be a registered Democrat to vote in the primaries.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily. He would have gotten all the states Clinton did, plus picked up the rustbelt states.

But I agree we can only blame ourselves. The Democratic party drastically underestimated the hate for Clinton.
Death23
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11/9/2016 10:49:33 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:26:40 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to a real rebuttal to this, I seriously cant' fathom any other big reason why the Democrats lost.

The election was close in many key states. Look at all the straws instead of the last one, and you'll have your answer.
imabench
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11/9/2016 10:51:59 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:26:40 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Seriously, I'm willing to listen to a real rebuttal to this, I seriously cant' fathom any other big reason why the Democrats lost.

The reason why Democrats lost is because we got f*cked on the free-trade issue.

Michigan Wisconsin and Pennsylvania were all states where auto or steel industries reigned supreme at one point before going overseas or out of the country. Trump's rhetoric against China and Mexico struck a cord with blue collar workers in those states. Union workers, who are normally Democratic flipped Republican. CNN had union voters supporting Trump 49% to Hillary 51%, which is an awful showing for Democrats:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Media headlines shined the light more on how Trump was appealing to lower class whites and lambasting gays, muslims, hispanics, etc to the point that union workers completely flew under the radar. It didnt have anything to do with Hillary's emails, which no one has given a sh*t about in a while, and it didnt have anything to do with her label as an 'establishment' politician. She won the popular vote but lost in the three states I mentioned before due to the trade thing
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Reformist
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11/9/2016 10:54:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:16:38 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office.

This is as far as I got before I realized how retarded this post was

You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.

Funny thing is that nobody even commented on your thread imabench

Because we all know you are a retard
DDO History Revival Officer
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"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

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imabench
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11/9/2016 10:54:37 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily.

He is a literal socialist which the GOP have spent the past 8 years trying to paint Obama as in order to stir up obstructionist sentiments against him, successfully I might add..... Putting a socialist on steroids who would want big tax increases and a much more expanded government as the nominee would have only pushed centrist GOP voters back to Trump. The attack ads against Bernie would write themselves.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Reformist
Posts: 679
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11/9/2016 10:54:39 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office. You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.

Yeet Yeet

Trump win
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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11/9/2016 10:57:17 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:54:20 PM, Reformist wrote:

Funny thing is that nobody even commented on your thread imabench

Ive made three in the past day alone and all of them have been commented on

Do society a favor and drink bleach since you clearly offer no benefit to offer to humanity.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Reformist
Posts: 679
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11/9/2016 10:58:39 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:57:17 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:54:20 PM, Reformist wrote:

Funny thing is that nobody even commented on your thread imabench

Ive made three in the past day alone and all of them have been commented on

Do society a favor and drink bleach since you clearly offer no benefit to offer to humanity.

At least I can afford bleach b*tch

The only reason you voted for Obama is so you could sit on welfare and watch movies that were made for kids you pedophile
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/9/2016 11:08:48 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:54:37 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily.

He is a literal socialist which the GOP have spent the past 8 years trying to paint Obama as in order to stir up obstructionist sentiments against him, successfully I might add..... Putting a socialist on steroids who would want big tax increases and a much more expanded government as the nominee would have only pushed centrist GOP voters back to Trump. The attack ads against Bernie would write themselves.

I disagree with most of that. The socialist thing would only affect him in the vote that is non-left. Because democrats would have still voted for him regardless of his position just out of policy agenda.

Meaning if Clinton *had won* what she was supposed to win, then yeah Bernie would have been the second best choice. The issue was that she only won states that were promised to flip blue no matter what and that would have flipped blue regardless of whether sanders ran or not. Basically, the base electoral votes that she got, sanders was already promised just because of how hard those states lean dem. He pulled harder in almost every state that she needed to win (the rust belt). Michigan, PA , etc. His message which was basically a screw you to the establishment (just like trump), but aimed at a democratic base would have swung the states she needed to win in favor of him.

So logical conclusion is that he would have won the same states as her and with how slim the margin was in Michigan and PA, those voters that were on the border probably would have gone for him just out of his message about jobs and fixing the economy.

The only way that model fails if it assumes that every person who was polled during the democratic primaries went for Hillary just for being democratic, which was evidently not the case. As most of them ended up not voting, or went Trump.
dylancatlow
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11/9/2016 11:13:36 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
There has been a lot of speculation this election season, and the majority of it has been wrong in one way or another.
dylancatlow
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11/9/2016 11:20:54 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
People were speculating that the Dow would crash today, and it went up nearly 300 points. I think this whole "predicting" business is harder than people realize.
Genius_Intellect
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11/9/2016 11:22:38 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office. You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.

Point 3
Trump focused his campaign on the stuff that people actually care about: jobs and security. Hillary focused on peace, love, and abortion rights; she was off the fucking_planet. What's more, Trump's policies are short and simple enough for the uneducated layperson to understand, while Hillary's policies are big and complicated.

Point 4
Trump set everybody up from the very beginning. He took the sentiments that most people hold and worded them in the most offensive way possible to make his own supporters look like bigots. Naturally, the media fell for it and started painting his supporters as bigots, which caused them to disregard anything the media said. Judging from the "we underestimated how bigoted Americans are" articles in the news, they still haven't learned their lesson.
triangle.128k
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11/9/2016 11:39:06 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:54:37 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily.

He is a literal socialist which the GOP have spent the past 8 years trying to paint Obama as in order to stir up obstructionist sentiments against him, successfully I might add..... Putting a socialist on steroids who would want big tax increases and a much more expanded government as the nominee would have only pushed centrist GOP voters back to Trump. The attack ads against Bernie would write themselves.

What the Democrats needed was a centre-left populist for their party. Then a good chunk of them decided to take a march and go too far left, to where they're literal socialists.

If the Democrats had a centre-left populist instead of Hillary (an absolute elitist) or Bernie (a far-left populist), then the GOP wouldn't be winning at this moment.
Geogeer
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11/9/2016 11:48:22 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 11:22:38 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office. You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.

Point 3
Trump focused his campaign on the stuff that people actually care about: jobs and security. Hillary focused on peace, love, and abortion rights; she was off the fucking_planet. What's more, Trump's policies are short and simple enough for the uneducated layperson to understand, while Hillary's policies are big and complicated.

Point 3.1

Hillary thought that riding the woman vote (the dem's real bread and butter) would be enough. She had no passion. It was simple repetition of rehearsed talking points. She might as well have had a tape recorder and cardboard cutout touring the nation...

Point 4
Trump set everybody up from the very beginning. He took the sentiments that most people hold and worded them in the most offensive way possible to make his own supporters look like bigots. Naturally, the media fell for it and started painting his supporters as bigots, which caused them to disregard anything the media said. Judging from the "we underestimated how bigoted Americans are" articles in the news, they still haven't learned their lesson.
Genius_Intellect
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11/9/2016 11:57:04 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 11:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Point 3.1

Hillary thought that riding the woman vote (the dem's real bread and butter) would be enough. She had no passion. It was simple repetition of rehearsed talking points. She might as well have had a tape recorder and cardboard cutout touring the nation...

62% of non-college educated women voted for Trump, as did 49% of college-educated women. This is empirical proof that today's women don't give two shits about_feminism.
1harderthanyouthink
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11/9/2016 11:58:11 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily. He would have gotten all the states Clinton did, plus picked up the rustbelt states.

But I agree we can only blame ourselves. The Democratic party drastically underestimated the hate for Clinton.

The Rust Belt was always the thing that mattered most. And the only reason more didn't realize this when casting their primary vote was the media. Bernie was always the better candidate against Trump - and specifically he was best suited as a candidate versus Trump.
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Geogeer
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11/10/2016 12:03:07 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 11:57:04 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 11/9/2016 11:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Point 3.1

Hillary thought that riding the woman vote (the dem's real bread and butter) would be enough. She had no passion. It was simple repetition of rehearsed talking points. She might as well have had a tape recorder and cardboard cutout touring the nation...

62% of non-college educated women voted for Trump, as did 49% of college-educated women. This is empirical proof that today's women don't give two shits about_feminism.

96% of black women did though. She offered them so little to vote for. Trump actually offered women more: boarder security and primary bread winner quality jobs.
Death23
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11/10/2016 12:11:07 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 11:58:11 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily. He would have gotten all the states Clinton did, plus picked up the rustbelt states.

But I agree we can only blame ourselves. The Democratic party drastically underestimated the hate for Clinton.

The Rust Belt was always the thing that mattered most. And the only reason more didn't realize this when casting their primary vote was the media. Bernie was always the better candidate against Trump - and specifically he was best suited as a candidate versus Trump.

This outcome could give Bernie another shot before he dies. The Dem's chances would be increased if the Repubs get rid of Obamacare, particularly the medicaid expansion, which has had high enrollment numbers in key swing states like MI, PA, and OH.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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11/10/2016 12:38:21 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 11:08:48 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:54:37 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily.

He is a literal socialist which the GOP have spent the past 8 years trying to paint Obama as in order to stir up obstructionist sentiments against him, successfully I might add..... Putting a socialist on steroids who would want big tax increases and a much more expanded government as the nominee would have only pushed centrist GOP voters back to Trump. The attack ads against Bernie would write themselves.

I disagree with most of that. The socialist thing would only affect him in the vote that is non-left.

The non-left is a really big chunk of the electorate. Alot of americans take pride in ont being as left-wing as Europe, so for one candidate to campaign on a platform that would essentially Europeanize America would naturally scare the living sh*t out of a lot of centrists, let alone hard conservatives.

Basically, the base electoral votes that she got, sanders was already promised just because of how hard those states lean dem.

And the more battleground states that lean more centrist then the ones that lean Dem would have been that much further out of reach for Bernie.

He pulled harder in almost every state that she needed to win (the rust belt). Michigan, PA , etc. His message which was basically a screw you to the establishment (just like trump), but aimed at a democratic base would have swung the states she needed to win in favor of him.

So logical conclusion is that he would have won the same states as her and with how slim the margin was in Michigan and PA, those voters that were on the border probably would have gone for him just out of his message about jobs and fixing the economy.

Check the primaries for those states. Clinton beat Bernie in Virginia by 30 points, North Carolina by 14 points, Ohio by 13 points, Pennsylvania by 12 points and only lost Michigan by 1 point...... Nearly every single battleground state that swung to Trump were states that Hillary beat Bernie in pretty hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
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Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/10/2016 12:45:31 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/10/2016 12:38:21 AM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 11:08:48 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:54:37 PM, imabench wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:42:03 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders

This is the only reason why we lost, but it was impossible to know his message would have resonated with the states that matter. Ironically Bernie would have won it easily.

He is a literal socialist which the GOP have spent the past 8 years trying to paint Obama as in order to stir up obstructionist sentiments against him, successfully I might add..... Putting a socialist on steroids who would want big tax increases and a much more expanded government as the nominee would have only pushed centrist GOP voters back to Trump. The attack ads against Bernie would write themselves.

I disagree with most of that. The socialist thing would only affect him in the vote that is non-left.

The non-left is a really big chunk of the electorate. Alot of americans take pride in ont being as left-wing as Europe, so for one candidate to campaign on a platform that would essentially Europeanize America would naturally scare the living sh*t out of a lot of centrists, let alone hard conservatives.

Basically, the base electoral votes that she got, sanders was already promised just because of how hard those states lean dem.

And the more battleground states that lean more centrist then the ones that lean Dem would have been that much further out of reach for Bernie.

He pulled harder in almost every state that she needed to win (the rust belt). Michigan, PA , etc. His message which was basically a screw you to the establishment (just like trump), but aimed at a democratic base would have swung the states she needed to win in favor of him.

So logical conclusion is that he would have won the same states as her and with how slim the margin was in Michigan and PA, those voters that were on the border probably would have gone for him just out of his message about jobs and fixing the economy.

Check the primaries for those states. Clinton beat Bernie in Virginia by 30 points, North Carolina by 14 points, Ohio by 13 points, Pennsylvania by 12 points and only lost Michigan by 1 point...... Nearly every single battleground state that swung to Trump were states that Hillary beat Bernie in pretty hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Going to tldr this response because going out to eat. Bernie would have not did worse than Hillary. At worst he did as bad, at best his message about screw the establishment pulled enough people on the fence to swing at least one state she needed.
Genius_Intellect
Posts: 339
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11/10/2016 1:01:51 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/10/2016 12:03:07 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/9/2016 11:57:04 PM, Genius_Intellect wrote:
At 11/9/2016 11:48:22 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Point 3.1

Hillary thought that riding the woman vote (the dem's real bread and butter) would be enough. She had no passion. It was simple repetition of rehearsed talking points. She might as well have had a tape recorder and cardboard cutout touring the nation...

62% of non-college educated women voted for Trump, as did 49% of college-educated women. This is empirical proof that today's women don't give two shits about_feminism.

96% of black women did though. She offered them so little to vote for. Trump actually offered women more: boarder security and primary bread winner quality jobs.

The black community still needs work. Less crime, better schools.
slo1
Posts: 4,361
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11/10/2016 1:04:11 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 11:20:54 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
People were speculating that the Dow would crash today, and it went up nearly 300 points. I think this whole "predicting" business is harder than people realize.

They were speculating that because futures did crash. Biotechs had a banner day today because Hillary has been vocal about drug prices. There is a short memory as Trump has also said he would negotiate prices for Medicare.

It could get very volatile depending upon what policy rolls out. Uncertainty will be certain until he creates some predictability.
Fernyx
Posts: 330
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11/10/2016 1:50:33 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
At 11/9/2016 10:10:10 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
Let me break this down as to why the Democrats lost.

Point 1
You had the chance to elect Bernie Sanders... You could have made a decision. Instead, you chose to elect a war mongering neo con corporatist liar who should not be in the oval office. You had the chance to make a difference, but you ended up screwing a candidate who would definitely have beat Trump, and nominated Clinton instead. It didn't have to be a "lesser than 2 evils" choice, you made it this way.

You have nobody else to blame but yourselves. Next time, Progressives should be in charge of the Democrat Party, not establishment Democrats who have no clue on what best represents the party. Also try not to let a candidate with several scandals become a nominee

Point 2
The polls were misleading and this is entirely the fault of the media who practically considered a Trump supporter to the equivalent of a Nazi. Many Trump supporters were simply too afraid to express their real views, and this obviously hit the Democrats hard, since they were under the impression that they were leading, but they really weren't. This is why it's important to encourage people to speak their real beliefs, rather than bullying them.


For Democrats, the best thing to do is to support real progressive politics ( not that I agree with all of it) and bring a proper competent candidate who represents the value of Progressivism/Liberalism (ffs don't elect Kanye West) for the 2020 election.

Point 1 I agree with, point 2 I would say they just did not account for the silent white vote.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,395
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11/10/2016 3:12:23 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
Although Hillary did say she was in favor of civil unions, the democrat party made "marriage equality" part of their platform, and she has been in favor of this dumbass idea ever since.
They did this because the republicans lied to the pollsters and said that they loved gay marriage and the democrats bought it.