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warren42
Posts: 101
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11/10/2016 6:03:09 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
I am not proud to be an American. Not today. I have always loved my country; I still love my country, but am ashamed that we could have elected such a man as our leader. Let me begin by saying that I hope Donald Trump will be a good president, it is foolish to hope otherwise. However, if he makes good on his rhetoric, I cannot see that as a real possibility.

Throughout this post I will use the acronym FDT, popularized by the YG song of that name, to represent my feelings while avoiding having this post removed for explicit content.

FDT because he rode a wave of hatred, of fear mongering, of division to power.

FDT because Muslims are now living in fear. Incredibly religious Muslim women have forsaken their hijabs out of fear for their lives. American citizens are afraid of being deported. No American should be subjected to this because they are followers of a certain religion. Parents of American soldiers should not be harassed by the president of the United States for their beliefs. Refugees should not be denied access to a nation on the basis of their religion.

FDT because black Americans are being harassed; because black Americans are being attacked. Trump's rhetoric blaming certain demographics (and overt past racism) has allowed intolerance to boil to the surface and bigots to feel safe, even protected in harassing or attacking minorities. No American should fear this due to the color of his or her skin.

FDT because he dehumanizes illegal immigrants. Whether or not you believe illegal immigrants should be granted amnesty, they are people. If someone has non violently broken a law, there is no reason to show hate. There is no reason to react with violence. Even if you believe illegal immigrants should be deported, you should be able to see them as humans deserving of respect and decency.

FDT because he allows men to believe women are objects; for allowing the man who sexually assaulted my girlfriend to believe it was okay for him to do so. He can feel empowered by knowing his president can sexually assault women without consequence, so he can as well. Not only does this set a precedent that men may more frequently commit assault, but it is an emotional blow to my girlfriend and the millions of other women who struggle to cope with the fact that they were forced to have intercourse without their consent.

FDT because my friend's mother called her crying, telling saying she's sorry for being selfish and bringing two young girls into this world, that they did not deserve to live in a place where a man so horrible to women can become the most powerful man in the world.

FDT and his people for their stance against the LGBT community and their goal to reverse marriage equality, stripping these individuals of basic human rights. This especially extends to his VP who supports conversion therapy. Accept people for who they are.

FDT because he plans to defund the entire organization of Planned Parenthood. If you don't think federal funding should be allocated toward abortion (I don't personally) that's fine, but then just defund that one program. Planned Parenthood helps make birth control more accessible, provides screenings for diseases, and does countless other beneficial things to help families.

FDT because he denies climate change exists. Anthropocentric climate change is debatable, but data has proven that, regardless of cause, the climate is changing. There's no reason we should not attempt to save our environment; clean environments benefit us all, and nature is a beautiful thing.

FDT because of that damn wall. It won't work, he'll be wasting our money.

FDT because a federal judge shouldn't be attacked due to his heritage.

FDT because a disabled reporter shouldn't be mocked on a national platform.

FDT because our country doesn't need to use nukes just because we have them. This is irresponsible and ridiculous.

FDT because "change" is different than progress. Trump may bring change, but as it stands we will be moving backward rather than forward.

FDT because I am in fear of what may happen to my life, even as an American-born straight, white, male. I can't imagine the fear of people who do not fit this description.

FDT because I was able to make such an extensive list without even touching on the majority of his horrendous policies.

FDT. I will stand with the rest of America's sons and daughters, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, income level, education, or any other factors. I will stand with my brothers and sisters against hatred, against tyranny, and against evil consuming us. Love has always trumped hate, and now is not the time to stop. We will stand together and not allow such evil to ravage our fellow citizens. FDT.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/10/2016 6:17:58 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
As a side note, I did not cast a vote for Trump or Clinton, I voted for Gary Johnson. I do not blame myself for Trump being elected but that is a whole other argument. My vote was not in protest but rather because Johnson best embodies my system of beliefs.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
Robkwoods
Posts: 576
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11/10/2016 6:58:42 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 6:03:09 PM, warren42 wrote:
I am not proud to be an American. Not today. I have always loved my country; I still love my country, but am ashamed that we could have elected such a man as our leader. Let me begin by saying that I hope Donald Trump will be a good president, it is foolish to hope otherwise. However, if he makes good on his rhetoric, I cannot see that as a real possibility.

Throughout this post I will use the acronym FDT, popularized by the YG song of that name, to represent my feelings while avoiding having this post removed for explicit content.

FDT because he rode a wave of hatred, of fear mongering, of division to power.

FDT because Muslims are now living in fear. Incredibly religious Muslim women have forsaken their hijabs out of fear for their lives. American citizens are afraid of being deported. No American should be subjected to this because they are followers of a certain religion. Parents of American soldiers should not be harassed by the president of the United States for their beliefs. Refugees should not be denied access to a nation on the basis of their religion.

FDT because black Americans are being harassed; because black Americans are being attacked. Trump's rhetoric blaming certain demographics (and overt past racism) has allowed intolerance to boil to the surface and bigots to feel safe, even protected in harassing or attacking minorities. No American should fear this due to the color of his or her skin.

FDT because he dehumanizes illegal immigrants. Whether or not you believe illegal immigrants should be granted amnesty, they are people. If someone has non violently broken a law, there is no reason to show hate. There is no reason to react with violence. Even if you believe illegal immigrants should be deported, you should be able to see them as humans deserving of respect and decency.

FDT because he allows men to believe women are objects; for allowing the man who sexually assaulted my girlfriend to believe it was okay for him to do so. He can feel empowered by knowing his president can sexually assault women without consequence, so he can as well. Not only does this set a precedent that men may more frequently commit assault, but it is an emotional blow to my girlfriend and the millions of other women who struggle to cope with the fact that they were forced to have intercourse without their consent.

FDT because my friend's mother called her crying, telling saying she's sorry for being selfish and bringing two young girls into this world, that they did not deserve to live in a place where a man so horrible to women can become the most powerful man in the world.

FDT and his people for their stance against the LGBT community and their goal to reverse marriage equality, stripping these individuals of basic human rights. This especially extends to his VP who supports conversion therapy. Accept people for who they are.

FDT because he plans to defund the entire organization of Planned Parenthood. If you don't think federal funding should be allocated toward abortion (I don't personally) that's fine, but then just defund that one program. Planned Parenthood helps make birth control more accessible, provides screenings for diseases, and does countless other beneficial things to help families.

FDT because he denies climate change exists. Anthropocentric climate change is debatable, but data has proven that, regardless of cause, the climate is changing. There's no reason we should not attempt to save our environment; clean environments benefit us all, and nature is a beautiful thing.

FDT because of that damn wall. It won't work, he'll be wasting our money.

FDT because a federal judge shouldn't be attacked due to his heritage.

FDT because a disabled reporter shouldn't be mocked on a national platform.

FDT because our country doesn't need to use nukes just because we have them. This is irresponsible and ridiculous.

FDT because "change" is different than progress. Trump may bring change, but as it stands we will be moving backward rather than forward.

FDT because I am in fear of what may happen to my life, even as an American-born straight, white, male. I can't imagine the fear of people who do not fit this description.

FDT because I was able to make such an extensive list without even touching on the majority of his horrendous policies.

FDT. I will stand with the rest of America's sons and daughters, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, income level, education, or any other factors. I will stand with my brothers and sisters against hatred, against tyranny, and against evil consuming us. Love has always trumped hate, and now is not the time to stop. We will stand together and not allow such evil to ravage our fellow citizens. FDT.

Bahaha... This is why Trump won the election. This idiotic drivel.
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/10/2016 7:49:54 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 6:58:42 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 11/10/2016 6:03:09 PM, warren42 wrote:
I am not proud to be an American. Not today. I have always loved my country; I still love my country, but am ashamed that we could have elected such a man as our leader. Let me begin by saying that I hope Donald Trump will be a good president, it is foolish to hope otherwise. However, if he makes good on his rhetoric, I cannot see that as a real possibility.

Throughout this post I will use the acronym FDT, popularized by the YG song of that name, to represent my feelings while avoiding having this post removed for explicit content.

FDT because he rode a wave of hatred, of fear mongering, of division to power.

FDT because Muslims are now living in fear. Incredibly religious Muslim women have forsaken their hijabs out of fear for their lives. American citizens are afraid of being deported. No American should be subjected to this because they are followers of a certain religion. Parents of American soldiers should not be harassed by the president of the United States for their beliefs. Refugees should not be denied access to a nation on the basis of their religion.

FDT because black Americans are being harassed; because black Americans are being attacked. Trump's rhetoric blaming certain demographics (and overt past racism) has allowed intolerance to boil to the surface and bigots to feel safe, even protected in harassing or attacking minorities. No American should fear this due to the color of his or her skin.

FDT because he dehumanizes illegal immigrants. Whether or not you believe illegal immigrants should be granted amnesty, they are people. If someone has non violently broken a law, there is no reason to show hate. There is no reason to react with violence. Even if you believe illegal immigrants should be deported, you should be able to see them as humans deserving of respect and decency.

FDT because he allows men to believe women are objects; for allowing the man who sexually assaulted my girlfriend to believe it was okay for him to do so. He can feel empowered by knowing his president can sexually assault women without consequence, so he can as well. Not only does this set a precedent that men may more frequently commit assault, but it is an emotional blow to my girlfriend and the millions of other women who struggle to cope with the fact that they were forced to have intercourse without their consent.

FDT because my friend's mother called her crying, telling saying she's sorry for being selfish and bringing two young girls into this world, that they did not deserve to live in a place where a man so horrible to women can become the most powerful man in the world.

FDT and his people for their stance against the LGBT community and their goal to reverse marriage equality, stripping these individuals of basic human rights. This especially extends to his VP who supports conversion therapy. Accept people for who they are.

FDT because he plans to defund the entire organization of Planned Parenthood. If you don't think federal funding should be allocated toward abortion (I don't personally) that's fine, but then just defund that one program. Planned Parenthood helps make birth control more accessible, provides screenings for diseases, and does countless other beneficial things to help families.

FDT because he denies climate change exists. Anthropocentric climate change is debatable, but data has proven that, regardless of cause, the climate is changing. There's no reason we should not attempt to save our environment; clean environments benefit us all, and nature is a beautiful thing.

FDT because of that damn wall. It won't work, he'll be wasting our money.

FDT because a federal judge shouldn't be attacked due to his heritage.

FDT because a disabled reporter shouldn't be mocked on a national platform.

FDT because our country doesn't need to use nukes just because we have them. This is irresponsible and ridiculous.

FDT because "change" is different than progress. Trump may bring change, but as it stands we will be moving backward rather than forward.

FDT because I am in fear of what may happen to my life, even as an American-born straight, white, male. I can't imagine the fear of people who do not fit this description.

FDT because I was able to make such an extensive list without even touching on the majority of his horrendous policies.

FDT. I will stand with the rest of America's sons and daughters, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, income level, education, or any other factors. I will stand with my brothers and sisters against hatred, against tyranny, and against evil consuming us. Love has always trumped hate, and now is not the time to stop. We will stand together and not allow such evil to ravage our fellow citizens. FDT.

Bahaha... This is why Trump won the election. This idiotic drivel.

Please. Tell me how belief in equality is "idiotic drivel" because I'm all ears.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,304
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11/10/2016 8:13:58 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 7:49:54 PM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 6:58:42 PM, Robkwoods wrote:
At 11/10/2016 6:03:09 PM, warren42 wrote:
I am not proud to be an American. Not today. I have always loved my country; I still love my country, but am ashamed that we could have elected such a man as our leader. Let me begin by saying that I hope Donald Trump will be a good president, it is foolish to hope otherwise. However, if he makes good on his rhetoric, I cannot see that as a real possibility.

Throughout this post I will use the acronym FDT, popularized by the YG song of that name, to represent my feelings while avoiding having this post removed for explicit content.

FDT because he rode a wave of hatred, of fear mongering, of division to power.

FDT because Muslims are now living in fear. Incredibly religious Muslim women have forsaken their hijabs out of fear for their lives. American citizens are afraid of being deported. No American should be subjected to this because they are followers of a certain religion. Parents of American soldiers should not be harassed by the president of the United States for their beliefs. Refugees should not be denied access to a nation on the basis of their religion.

FDT because black Americans are being harassed; because black Americans are being attacked. Trump's rhetoric blaming certain demographics (and overt past racism) has allowed intolerance to boil to the surface and bigots to feel safe, even protected in harassing or attacking minorities. No American should fear this due to the color of his or her skin.

FDT because he dehumanizes illegal immigrants. Whether or not you believe illegal immigrants should be granted amnesty, they are people. If someone has non violently broken a law, there is no reason to show hate. There is no reason to react with violence. Even if you believe illegal immigrants should be deported, you should be able to see them as humans deserving of respect and decency.

FDT because he allows men to believe women are objects; for allowing the man who sexually assaulted my girlfriend to believe it was okay for him to do so. He can feel empowered by knowing his president can sexually assault women without consequence, so he can as well. Not only does this set a precedent that men may more frequently commit assault, but it is an emotional blow to my girlfriend and the millions of other women who struggle to cope with the fact that they were forced to have intercourse without their consent.

FDT because my friend's mother called her crying, telling saying she's sorry for being selfish and bringing two young girls into this world, that they did not deserve to live in a place where a man so horrible to women can become the most powerful man in the world.

FDT and his people for their stance against the LGBT community and their goal to reverse marriage equality, stripping these individuals of basic human rights. This especially extends to his VP who supports conversion therapy. Accept people for who they are.

FDT because he plans to defund the entire organization of Planned Parenthood. If you don't think federal funding should be allocated toward abortion (I don't personally) that's fine, but then just defund that one program. Planned Parenthood helps make birth control more accessible, provides screenings for diseases, and does countless other beneficial things to help families.

FDT because he denies climate change exists. Anthropocentric climate change is debatable, but data has proven that, regardless of cause, the climate is changing. There's no reason we should not attempt to save our environment; clean environments benefit us all, and nature is a beautiful thing.

FDT because of that damn wall. It won't work, he'll be wasting our money.

FDT because a federal judge shouldn't be attacked due to his heritage.

FDT because a disabled reporter shouldn't be mocked on a national platform.

FDT because our country doesn't need to use nukes just because we have them. This is irresponsible and ridiculous.

FDT because "change" is different than progress. Trump may bring change, but as it stands we will be moving backward rather than forward.

FDT because I am in fear of what may happen to my life, even as an American-born straight, white, male. I can't imagine the fear of people who do not fit this description.

FDT because I was able to make such an extensive list without even touching on the majority of his horrendous policies.

FDT. I will stand with the rest of America's sons and daughters, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, income level, education, or any other factors. I will stand with my brothers and sisters against hatred, against tyranny, and against evil consuming us. Love has always trumped hate, and now is not the time to stop. We will stand together and not allow such evil to ravage our fellow citizens. FDT.

Bahaha... This is why Trump won the election. This idiotic drivel.

Please. Tell me how belief in equality is "idiotic drivel" because I'm all ears.

Because we haven't had equality ever since we made certain people protected classes and certain people immune from the law. It's all drivel to think you can promote sanctuary cities and equality under the law in the same breath.
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/10/2016 8:32:41 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:13:58 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Because we haven't had equality ever since we made certain people protected classes and certain people immune from the law. It's all drivel to think you can promote sanctuary cities and equality under the law in the same breath.

I said nothing about placing anyone above other groups. Note: no discussion of affirmative action, no discussion of protecting sanctuary cities, etc. I advocate equal protection under law (no discrimination based on race, religion, orientation, sex)
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,304
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11/10/2016 9:55:51 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:32:41 PM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:13:58 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Because we haven't had equality ever since we made certain people protected classes and certain people immune from the law. It's all drivel to think you can promote sanctuary cities and equality under the law in the same breath.

I said nothing about placing anyone above other groups. Note: no discussion of affirmative action, no discussion of protecting sanctuary cities, etc. I advocate equal protection under law (no discrimination based on race, religion, orientation, sex)

I suppose if Trump were more like Mr Wolf in this clip with the "pretty please" and Sugar on top"....
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,236
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11/11/2016 12:16:54 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
This is exactly why I support Trump.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

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Skepsikyma
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11/11/2016 12:40:45 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 12:16:54 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
This is exactly why I support Trump.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
thett3
Posts: 14,356
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11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/11/2016 2:05:58 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 12:16:54 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
This is exactly why I support Trump.

I still don't understand how libertarianism can coexist with support for Trump and am genuinely curious. If you have the time and effort I'd love to hear why you support Trump and how you think this can coexist with your beliefs as a libertarian.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/11/2016 2:08:13 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 2:05:58 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:16:54 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
This is exactly why I support Trump.

I still don't understand how libertarianism can coexist with support for Trump and am genuinely curious. If you have the time and effort I'd love to hear why you support Trump and how you think this can coexist with your beliefs as a libertarian.
Preferably via PM as it'd be easier to have a free flowing conversation.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
thett3
Posts: 14,356
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11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/11/2016 2:23:27 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
I honestly don't understand why minorities would vote for him, the only things I can think of as to why he did better is Romney ran against Obama and Hillary sucked also and minorities saw her as faking her concern for them.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
ThinkBig
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11/11/2016 2:32:51 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 2:23:27 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
I honestly don't understand why minorities would vote for him, the only things I can think of as to why he did better is Romney ran against Obama and Hillary sucked also and minorities saw her as faking her concern for them.

That.

Also keep in mind there were Jews who initially supported Hitler.
ThinkBig
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"WELL FVCK ME IN THE A$SHOLE AND CALL ME A CUCK I GOT SIG'D AGAIN"
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If anyone's getting modkilled, it's kiri. Just for his sig.
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Greyparrot
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11/11/2016 3:16:38 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers

lol!
thett3
Posts: 14,356
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11/11/2016 5:01:53 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 2:23:27 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
I honestly don't understand why minorities would vote for him, the only things I can think of as to why he did better is Romney ran against Obama and Hillary sucked also and minorities saw her as faking her concern for them.

Maybe they just didn't want their jobs shipped overseas or didn't want to antagonize Russia over Syria.

Don't you think it's kind of messed up for you, as a white person, to be talking about how hard it is for minorities and how they constantly have to live in fear now when millions of minorities voted for him?

I think everyone is seriously overreacting to this. Trump is probably going to govern as something between a pro-working class democrat and a generic Republican. TPP is dead, he'll crack down on illegal immigration by enforcing the current laws, and he will appoint conservative SCOTUS justices. Which sure, from a leftist perspective that is not a good thing. But it's also about what you'd expect. This election did not legitimize racism. The dirty secret is that the areas where Trump improved the most from Romney were the places where Obama did the best with white voters. I was wrong (I thought it was racial backlash). It was economic backlash, not racialist.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
warren42
Posts: 101
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11/11/2016 5:52:23 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 5:01:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:23:27 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
I honestly don't understand why minorities would vote for him, the only things I can think of as to why he did better is Romney ran against Obama and Hillary sucked also and minorities saw her as faking her concern for them.

Maybe they just didn't want their jobs shipped overseas or didn't want to antagonize Russia over Syria.

Don't you think it's kind of messed up for you, as a white person, to be talking about how hard it is for minorities and how they constantly have to live in fear now when millions of minorities voted for him?

I think everyone is seriously overreacting to this. Trump is probably going to govern as something between a pro-working class democrat and a generic Republican. TPP is dead, he'll crack down on illegal immigration by enforcing the current laws, and he will appoint conservative SCOTUS justices. Which sure, from a leftist perspective that is not a good thing. But it's also about what you'd expect. This election did not legitimize racism. The dirty secret is that the areas where Trump improved the most from Romney were the places where Obama did the best with white voters. I was wrong (I thought it was racial backlash). It was economic backlash, not racialist.

As far as the part from "The dirty little secret..." onward I'm not going to comment because I don't know enough about this, I haven't looked into detailed specifics on demographics.

However, as far as your comment "Don't you think it's kind of messed up for you, as a white person, to be talking about how hard it is for minorities and how they constantly have to live in fear now when millions of minorities voted for him?" I absolutely do not think this, because I am talking about it based on instances experienced by individuals, not my own experience. I don't think that Trump will put (many) policies into place that outright support his bigotry (Muslim ban maybe, justice to overturn marriage equality perhaps) but the fact that he utilized scapegoating and division to get this far makes me think that the common bigot will feel empowered and act on that inflated sense of self.

Not sure if you intended to critique semantics by using "have" (rightly so, as it is the word I used) but to be more precise you are correct. Minorities (of all types aforementioned, not solely racial) do not have to live in fear. However, it is justified for the many that will.

As far as millions of minorities having voted for him, if you saw exit poll data, every single group that was not white voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. So yes "millions" may have voted him, but it's still not representative of the whole of minority voices.

Finally, if he does rule in this way I will be thrilled (see original post-I want him to be a good leader, I'm just not optimistic about the prospect) but I do feel that bigotry will (potentially to a lesser extent than in his campaign) exist in his administration. SCOTUS nominee I am mostly fine with a conservative, I just hope they don't overturn marriage equality (not sure if you read my follow-up post but I am a Libertarian and therefore mostly agree with conservative interpretation of the Constitution). The rest I can settle for in a normal Republican president, but as stated would be happily surprised if this is the case with Trump.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
Romanii
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11/11/2016 7:49:34 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 6:03:09 PM, warren42 wrote:

For_fucks sake, quit being so melodramatic... the histrionics from the left are beyond ridiculous.

Minorities aren't "living in fear" (well, some of the more ignorant ones are, but they'll get over it after a few months of absolutely nothing happening to them). As any reasonably informed person can tell you, Trump's actual policies aren't anti-minority at all, and the proportion of Trump supporters who can genuinely be described as "bigoted" is utterly negligible.

Women aren't suddenly gonna start getting sexually assaulted en masse because the President made some crude sex jokes 11 years ago. And little girls aren't gonna give up on all their hopes & dreams just because a corrupt old hag didn't reign victorious.

Yes, Trump is a massive douchebag. Yes, conservative Christian values will probably be allowed to creep into our politics a bit over the next 4 years. And yes, any efforts to slow down climate change are probably gonna be delayed until next term. Big deal.

The world is not going to end just because this election didn't go your way.

lol...
warren42
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11/11/2016 8:12:26 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 7:49:34 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 11/10/2016 6:03:09 PM, warren42 wrote:

For_fucks sake, quit being so melodramatic... the histrionics from the left are beyond ridiculous.

Minorities aren't "living in fear" (well, some of the more ignorant ones are, but they'll get over it after a few months of absolutely nothing happening to them). As any reasonably informed person can tell you, Trump's actual policies aren't anti-minority at all, and the proportion of Trump supporters who can genuinely be described as "bigoted" is utterly negligible.

Women aren't suddenly gonna start getting sexually assaulted en masse because the President made some crude sex jokes 11 years ago. And little girls aren't gonna give up on all their hopes & dreams just because a corrupt old hag didn't reign victorious.

Yes, Trump is a massive douchebag. Yes, conservative Christian values will probably be allowed to creep into our politics a bit over the next 4 years. And yes, any efforts to slow down climate change are probably gonna be delayed until next term. Big deal.

The world is not going to end just because this election didn't go your way.

lol...

If you'd paid attention you'd see I'm far from the left, I just believe in equality. Never said the world would end either. (Unless of course he acts impulsively as far as nuclear decisions go, in which case it's a very real possibility.)

As far as "ignorant" minorities living in fear, not sure how when harassment already seems to be picking up (can't provide empirical analysis on this as it's A. Too early to have compiled and B. Too hard to track [so admittedly I am relying on personal examples]) this is "ignorant." Like I said I can't definitively prove anything so I can see how you can disagree here.

What I really take issue with is your statement that he "made some crude sex jokes 11 years ago." A. Saying you're able to "grab women by the p*ssy" without their consent because you're famous isn't a "joke" it's bragging about assault. B. He's been accused of sexual assault by many women, including one who was 13 at the time of alleged assault. Yes, innocent until proven guilty but when it's been this many instances and he's bragged about doing pretty much the very same thing, it's at bare minimum very real cause for concern. On top of all of that, he dismissed sexual assault allegations because the women weren't attractive enough. Not because he wouldn't sexually assault someone, but because if he would, it wouldn't be them!

I too am against the left being over-sensitive to issues. However, a bigoted president is something that is genuine cause for concern and even fear.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
Mikal
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11/11/2016 8:15:24 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 5:01:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:23:27 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
I honestly don't understand why minorities would vote for him, the only things I can think of as to why he did better is Romney ran against Obama and Hillary sucked also and minorities saw her as faking her concern for them.

Maybe they just didn't want their jobs shipped overseas or didn't want to antagonize Russia over Syria.

Don't you think it's kind of messed up for you, as a white person, to be talking about how hard it is for minorities and how they constantly have to live in fear now when millions of minorities voted for him?

I think everyone is seriously overreacting to this. Trump is probably going to govern as something between a pro-working class democrat and a generic Republican. TPP is dead, he'll crack down on illegal immigration by enforcing the current laws, and he will appoint conservative SCOTUS justices. Which sure, from a leftist perspective that is not a good thing. But it's also about what you'd expect. This election did not legitimize racism. The dirty secret is that the areas where Trump improved the most from Romney were the places where Obama did the best with white voters. I was wrong (I thought it was racial backlash). It was economic backlash, not racialist.

+1000

Agree with everything you wrote

As anti-Trump as I am, I expect him to actually be more moderate than most of his counterparts that were running. Trump being in office is no different than anyone else in the GOP, and if he actually fixes his rhetoric and the way that he speaks, he is a far better alternative than people like Pence or Cruz.

It all revolves around tuning down his demeanor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still frustrated that America just elected the God champ of all narcissist into office but this post is drivel
thett3
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11/11/2016 9:58:24 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 5:52:23 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 5:01:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:23:27 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:08:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 2:03:35 AM, warren42 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:51:01 AM, thett3 wrote:
so what you're trying to say is that America has been made great again

If you believe minorities should live in fear due to decisive rhetoric, sure, I guess your definition of "great" has been achieved

I guess that helps explain why Trump did significantly better with minorities than Romney did: thrill-seekers
I honestly don't understand why minorities would vote for him, the only things I can think of as to why he did better is Romney ran against Obama and Hillary sucked also and minorities saw her as faking her concern for them.

Maybe they just didn't want their jobs shipped overseas or didn't want to antagonize Russia over Syria.

Don't you think it's kind of messed up for you, as a white person, to be talking about how hard it is for minorities and how they constantly have to live in fear now when millions of minorities voted for him?

I think everyone is seriously overreacting to this. Trump is probably going to govern as something between a pro-working class democrat and a generic Republican. TPP is dead, he'll crack down on illegal immigration by enforcing the current laws, and he will appoint conservative SCOTUS justices. Which sure, from a leftist perspective that is not a good thing. But it's also about what you'd expect. This election did not legitimize racism. The dirty secret is that the areas where Trump improved the most from Romney were the places where Obama did the best with white voters. I was wrong (I thought it was racial backlash). It was economic backlash, not racialist.

As far as the part from "The dirty little secret..." onward I'm not going to comment because I don't know enough about this, I haven't looked into detailed specifics on demographics.

Go take a look at the maps. Trump made massive gains in heavily white areas of the Midwest and the Northeast that voted for Obama twice.

You should really read this article, it explained everything about this election in advance: http://www.nytimes.com...

In summary the 2012 electorate was far older, whiter, and less educated than the exit poll predicted it was, and Romney won far fewer of these white voters than the exit poll found he did. These working class white voters were skeptical of Romney and carried Obama to victory in states like Ohio, Pennslyvania, Wisconsin and Michigan that Trump won.

Take a look at the county by county maps between 2012 and 2016. There is this giant chunk of land in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Illinois that flipped from entirely blue to entirely red. These are overwhelmingly white counties that voted for Obama, a black man, twice--often by huge margins. It seems likely that Trump won these voters over by articulating an economic message focused on jobs and trade that appealed to them, rather than winning due to racism.

If anything, his inflammatory statements probably hurt him with these voters.


However, as far as your comment "Don't you think it's kind of messed up for you, as a white person, to be talking about how hard it is for minorities and how they constantly have to live in fear now when millions of minorities voted for him?" I absolutely do not think this, because I am talking about it based on instances experienced by individuals, not my own experience. I don't think that Trump will put (many) policies into place that outright support his bigotry (Muslim ban maybe, justice to overturn marriage equality perhaps) but the fact that he utilized scapegoating and division to get this far makes me think that the common bigot will feel empowered and act on that inflated sense of self.

To what extent do you think this is true?

I mean, I do think that a lot of Trumps support, especially in the Republican primary, was driven by racial backlash to insane immigration policies. But if you look at the critical states that won him the election that case is a lot thinner.


Not sure if you intended to critique semantics by using "have" (rightly so, as it is the word I used) but to be more precise you are correct. Minorities (of all types aforementioned, not solely racial) do not have to live in fear. However, it is justified for the many that will.

As far as millions of minorities having voted for him, if you saw exit poll data, every single group that was not white voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. So yes "millions" may have voted him, but it's still not representative of the whole of minority voices.

Of course, but the vast majority of whites voted for Trump. That doesn't mean you'd like it if I dismissed your opposition to Trump just because most of your ethnic cohorts voted for him.

I just think it's silly and condescending that you say all minorities are now living in fear when millions voted for him, and the vast majority are just accepting the results. It's dumb college kids of all races who are making a fuss about the election, the adults have responsibilities. Illegal immigrants may be living in fear right now, and while I can emphasize with them on a human level they also have no moral or legal right to be here. All normal countries deport their illegal immigrants, and I don't see this as racism or bigotry. It's just a normal policy change.


Finally, if he does rule in this way I will be thrilled (see original post-I want him to be a good leader, I'm just not optimistic about the prospect) but I do feel that bigotry will (potentially to a lesser extent than in his campaign) exist in his administration. SCOTUS nominee I am mostly fine with a conservative, I just hope they don't overturn marriage equality (not sure if you read my follow-up post but I am a Libertarian and therefore mostly agree with conservative interpretation of the Constitution). The rest I can settle for in a normal Republican president, but as stated would be happily surprised if this is the case with Trump.

I seriously doubt gay marriage will be overturned.

If you're an economic libertarian you probably won't like a Trump presidency due to his populism but we'll see what he can actually do.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
warren42
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11/11/2016 10:33:01 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
To what extent do you think this is true?
Enough to where Muslims and many minorities are justified in their fear. I don't doubt that justice will be served to those who act on their racist beliefs and commit hate crimes but it'd definitely be better if they were not to happen at all.
Not sure if you intended to critique semantics by using "have" (rightly so, as it is the word I used) but to be more precise you are correct. Minorities (of all types aforementioned, not solely racial) do not have to live in fear. However, it is justified for the many that will.

As far as millions of minorities having voted for him, if you saw exit poll data, every single group that was not white voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. So yes "millions" may have voted him, but it's still not representative of the whole of minority voices.

Of course, but the vast majority of whites voted for Trump. That doesn't mean you'd like it if I dismissed your opposition to Trump just because most of your ethnic cohorts voted for him.

I just think it's silly and condescending that you say all minorities are now living in fear when millions voted for him, and the vast majority are just accepting the results. It's dumb college kids of all races who are making a fuss about the election, the adults have responsibilities.

I agree, but I did clarify in the last post that I did not mean they all have to live in fear, but rather that they are justified in doing so. His anti-Muslim rhetoric and proposal for national stop and frisk laws, for example, are cause for concern for members of the Muslim and Black American communities.

Illegal immigrants may be living in fear right now, and while I can emphasize with them on a human level they also have no moral or legal right to be here. All normal countries deport their illegal immigrants, and I don't see this as racism or bigotry. It's just a normal policy change.

Thank you, this was my point. There's a fine line between believing immigrants should be deported and not even treating them as humans. It appears that you're on the right side of that line. I'm ultimately undecided because of the difficulty and cost of such a proposal. (Though I don't think the wall is the best solution).


Finally, if he does rule in this way I will be thrilled (see original post-I want him to be a good leader, I'm just not optimistic about the prospect) but I do feel that bigotry will (potentially to a lesser extent than in his campaign) exist in his administration. SCOTUS nominee I am mostly fine with a conservative, I just hope they don't overturn marriage equality (not sure if you read my follow-up post but I am a Libertarian and therefore mostly agree with conservative interpretation of the Constitution). The rest I can settle for in a normal Republican president, but as stated would be happily surprised if this is the case with Trump.

I seriously doubt gay marriage will be overturned.

If you're an economic libertarian you probably won't like a Trump presidency due to his populism but we'll see what he can actually do.

I don't think it will either, but if I were gay myself I do think it'd be justified to be wary, especially if Trump gets two nominations. Additionally with Pence believing in electro conversion therapy it's not necessarily the most hospitable climate for our gay citizens. At a minimum I think they are completely justified to be nervous.

His policies on economics and such are not of as great concern to me. We can recover more quickly from that than if he continues to pin blame for certain problems on certain demographics.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
Romanii
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11/12/2016 3:16:42 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 8:12:26 PM, warren42 wrote:
If you'd paid attention you'd see I'm far from the left, I just believe in equality. Never said the world would end either. (Unless of course he acts impulsively as far as nuclear decisions go, in which case it's a very real possibility.)

If I recall correctly, Hillary was the one advocating a hostile foreign policy against Russia, the #2 nuclear power in the world.

As far as "ignorant" minorities living in fear, not sure how when harassment already seems to be picking up (can't provide empirical analysis on this as it's A. Too early to have compiled and B. Too hard to track [so admittedly I am relying on personal examples]) this is "ignorant." Like I said I can't definitively prove anything so I can see how you can disagree here.

If you can't produce any evidence, then remain silent. There have been maybe 20-30ish reports of Trump-related incidents since Wednesday, with many of them being unverifiable, and one turning out to be a hoax [1]. To put that in perspective, empirical analyses show that roughly 700 general "hate crime" incidents occur around the US on any given day [2]. There's literally no reason to believe that Trump's election has incited a serious spike in harassment against minorities, and any claim to the contrary is is an exercise in pointless fear-mongering.

1. http://www.independent.co.uk...
2. http://www.bjs.gov...

What I really take issue with is your statement that he "made some crude sex jokes 11 years ago." A. Saying you're able to "grab women by the p*ssy" without their consent because you're famous isn't a "joke" it's bragging about assault. B. He's been accused of sexual assault by many women, including one who was 13 at the time of alleged assault. Yes, innocent until proven guilty but when it's been this many instances and he's bragged about doing pretty much the very same thing, it's at bare minimum very real cause for concern. On top of all of that, he dismissed sexual assault allegations because the women weren't attractive enough. Not because he wouldn't sexually assault someone, but because if he would, it wouldn't be them!

Both Bill Clinton and John F. Kennedy were surrounded by unverifiable rumors of sexual assault too, but we didn't see an epidemic of sexual assault during their administrations. You guys wayyy overestimate the "role model" value of POTUS. The reason why people were willing to vote for Trump despite the accusations isn't because they approve of what he's said (or possibly done) -- they just recognize that it's irrelevant to how effective of a President he'd make. More useless fear-mongering.

I too am against the left being over-sensitive to issues. However, a bigoted president is something that is genuine cause for concern and even fear.

There is absolutely zero cause for concern or fear.
YYW
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11/12/2016 3:31:33 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 6:17:58 PM, warren42 wrote:
As a side note, I did not cast a vote for Trump or Clinton, I voted for Gary Johnson. I do not blame myself for Trump being elected but that is a whole other argument. My vote was not in protest but rather because Johnson best embodies my system of beliefs.

Do you regret voting for Johnson? Would you rather have seen Hillary than Trump?
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YYW
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11/12/2016 3:38:24 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
I think that the people who want "conservative" justices from Trump will be disappointed. I think he'll probably call his sister and ask who she would appoint, then run that lot through the ringer with the Democrats, and put centrists who won't fuck_up abortion or gay rights but will defend the second amendment.

Trump's "negotiation" with senate republicans will be: "Look, you want guns and they all want to have abortions and live in peace. Meet each other half way, and preserve the country so that we don't fuck_this up. Or if you get in my way here I'm going to grab you all by the_pussy and put up primary challengers against you who will play ball. Don't doubt me either, because if you do I will_fuck you harder than I fucked_Jeb Bush in the primaries."
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warren42
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11/12/2016 5:03:15 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/12/2016 3:16:42 AM, Romanii wrote:
At 11/11/2016 8:12:26 PM, warren42 wrote:
If you'd paid attention you'd see I'm far from the left, I just believe in equality. Never said the world would end either. (Unless of course he acts impulsively as far as nuclear decisions go, in which case it's a very real possibility.)

If I recall correctly, Hillary was the one advocating a hostile foreign policy against Russia, the #2 nuclear power in the world.
Trump is the one saying "if we have nukes, why not use them" so I don't trust him on nuclear policy. Not saying Hillary would be good, but Trump won't either (again, I voted third party)

As far as "ignorant" minorities living in fear, not sure how when harassment already seems to be picking up (can't provide empirical analysis on this as it's A. Too early to have compiled and B. Too hard to track [so admittedly I am relying on personal examples]) this is "ignorant." Like I said I can't definitively prove anything so I can see how you can disagree here.

If you can't produce any evidence, then remain silent. There have been maybe 20-30ish reports of Trump-related incidents since Wednesday, with many of them being unverifiable, and one turning out to be a hoax [1]. To put that in perspective, empirical analyses show that roughly 700 general "hate crime" incidents occur around the US on any given day [2]. There's literally no reason to believe that Trump's election has incited a serious spike in harassment against minorities, and any claim to the contrary is is an exercise in pointless fear-mongering.
Harassment and hate crimes are two different things. 1. You have admitted a slight increase in hate-crimes 2. As I stated I believe it to be too early to analyze the effects but it's definitely possible.

What I really take issue with is your statement that he "made some crude sex jokes 11 years ago." A. Saying you're able to "grab women by the p*ssy" without their consent because you're famous isn't a "joke" it's bragging about assault. B. He's been accused of sexual assault by many women, including one who was 13 at the time of alleged assault. Yes, innocent until proven guilty but when it's been this many instances and he's bragged about doing pretty much the very same thing, it's at bare minimum very real cause for concern. On top of all of that, he dismissed sexual assault allegations because the women weren't attractive enough. Not because he wouldn't sexually assault someone, but because if he would, it wouldn't be them!

Both Bill Clinton and John F. Kennedy were surrounded by unverifiable rumors of sexual assault too, but we didn't see an epidemic of sexual assault during their administrations. You guys wayyy overestimate the "role model" value of POTUS. The reason why people were willing to vote for Trump despite the accusations isn't because they approve of what he's said (or possibly done) -- they just recognize that it's irrelevant to how effective of a President he'd make. More useless fear-mongering.
I'd argue there is more credit to Trump's because of the whole "p*ssy grabbing" comment and the fact that he denied the accusations based on their attractiveness. (I also believe that it's more likely than not Clinton did commit assault, Kennedy is less so but still a very good chance, but this is all beside the point.) I'm not saying there will be a dramatic increase in sexual assault. I wouldn't be surprised to see a marginal spike, however. My argument doesn't stop there though, as I stated, is that this allows people who have gotten away with sexual assault to not believe that what they did was so wrong, especially in cases of date-rape, etc. There will be a significant roadblock in the progress toward prevention of sexual assault in my opinion. I do think the president is a significant role model.

I too am against the left being over-sensitive to issues. However, a bigoted president is something that is genuine cause for concern and even fear.

There is absolutely zero cause for concern or fear.
Definitely not true. Even if you disagree with much of this there's no way you can say that.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."
warren42
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11/12/2016 5:06:08 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/12/2016 3:31:33 AM, YYW wrote:
At 11/10/2016 6:17:58 PM, warren42 wrote:
As a side note, I did not cast a vote for Trump or Clinton, I voted for Gary Johnson. I do not blame myself for Trump being elected but that is a whole other argument. My vote was not in protest but rather because Johnson best embodies my system of beliefs.

Do you regret voting for Johnson? Would you rather have seen Hillary than Trump?
No-Yes

I'm from Indiana so my state was going red regardless. Furthermore I hate Hillary too (I do think she's the lesser of two evils) so I couldn't bear to vote for either of them. I believe in voting for the candidate you believe in, not the lesser of two evils. If it was literally Trump and Clinton were tied and my vote was the tiebreaker I'm not positive I wouldn't have changed my vote but I think I still would've stuck with Johnson.
-warren42

"Give me liberty. That's it. I can handle the rest."