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This BLM supporter on why Trump won

Agent_Orange
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11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.
#BlackLivesMatter
Romanii
Posts: 4,858
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11/10/2016 8:31:23 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Well-said.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.
Agent_Orange
Posts: 2,252
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11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.
#BlackLivesMatter
kevin24018
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11/10/2016 8:54:44 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.

I have no idea why he ran tbh, I'm not even going to speculate, so many have been wrong about so many things, myself included, I think all we can really do is hope for the best.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,141
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11/10/2016 9:33:38 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

That first paragraph sums it up pretty well. Additionally, as far as Democrats go, Clinton got her asss kicked in the minority department. She didn't pander well enough, or more likely literally pandered too much, and lost on the real issues. It was a "double whammy", meaning American's among all the largest racial demographics, the big three, voted at or above the average for trump. Racial demographics are a stupid measurement though. The reasons people vote, are not racial, and Hillary's racial view of voting seems to have cost her this election. Racism is just not a reliable model to base anything off of. Its idiotic to think that a population with a variety of views in relatively fixed (people are who they are) proportion will somehow change suddenly because you call another republican a racist and try to compliment the population you aren't shown to be helping without stating any change from the usual script. Like what did she expect, 90% of Mexicans to be directly related to illegal immigrants? You can't pick up votes simply by claiming to relate better to a race because its literally impossible to relate to a race.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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11/10/2016 10:18:36 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.

Not entirely true. She called them a basket of deplorables. Wonder how she feels about that statement now that they just told her to go screw herself?

Oh, and, pretty sure she is the racist, not Trump.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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11/10/2016 10:55:24 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

Yeah. Trump's anti-corporatism resonates much more than anything race based. People who have never met 'rednecks' don't know much about them. My dad fits the bill, but he and a lot of people like him will get very fired up over things like the North Dakota pipeline. I have never seen my father angrier over any political issue than he was over that, or the DKIST telescope. He literally screamed at a coworker 'Haven't we done enough to these fvcking people?! We kick them off their land, give them a little sh!tty piece, then we have to come fvck that up too? Let them have their fvcking mountain, they've been living there for how many fvcking years'

Most rural people hate a few things. They hate 'big city people' who look down on them to prop up their own sense of ill-begotten hauteur, they hate mercenary, multinational corporate interests, and they hate laziness. The Republican party has often used the last one to their advantage in things like 'welfare queen' stereotypes, but it's really the weakest of the three. Trump hit the first two, and laid off on the third, and the response was unprecedented. It certainly didn't hurt that Hillary was also an incarnation of the same qualities that Trump lambasted.

This is why I have more hope for race relations than just about at any time in the last decade. Trump ditched the welfare queen line. Completely. A few people on facebook have made half-hearted attempts to revive it, but they never really gained traction. That narrative is what props up racism in the rural areas, not the other way around. I've actually watched incredibly hostile racism that had been mounting in my area for the last few years evaporate once Trump won. It's pretty spectacular.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,306
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11/10/2016 11:07:14 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 10:55:24 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

This is why I have more hope for race relations than just about at any time in the last decade. Trump ditched the welfare queen line. Completely. A few people on facebook have made half-hearted attempts to revive it, but they never really gained traction. That narrative is what props up racism in the rural areas, not the other way around. I've actually watched incredibly hostile racism that had been mounting in my area for the last few years evaporate once Trump won. It's pretty spectacular.

http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com...
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,141
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11/10/2016 11:17:46 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 10:18:36 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.

Not entirely true. She called them a basket of deplorables. Wonder how she feels about that statement now that they just told her to go screw herself?

Oh, and, pretty sure she is the racist, not Trump.

Yes she is, but she didn't call anyone a deplorable. That was an insult aimed directly at Trump. She said, not all of them but, a portion of his voters were deplorable....And the media took it out of context in the most emotionally stirring way they could spin it, and ran like crazy, then Trump eventually followed them, but surprisingly took it as it should be stated mainly towards himself, as the hypothetical deplorables, whom aren't his entire population, are implied to vote for him because he fits their deplorable narrative.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Greyparrot
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11/10/2016 11:29:47 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 11:17:46 PM, Quadrunner wrote:

Yes she is, but she didn't call anyone a deplorable. That was an insult aimed directly at Trump. She said, not all of them but, a portion of his voters were deplorable....And the media took it out of context in the most emotionally stirring way they could spin it, and ran like crazy, then Trump eventually followed them, but surprisingly took it as it should be stated mainly towards himself, as the hypothetical deplorables, whom aren't his entire population, are implied to vote for him because he fits their deplorable narrative.
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,141
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11/10/2016 11:45:03 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 11:29:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 11/10/2016 11:17:46 PM, Quadrunner wrote:

Yes she is, but she didn't call anyone a deplorable. That was an insult aimed directly at Trump. She said, not all of them but, a portion of his voters were deplorable....And the media took it out of context in the most emotionally stirring way they could spin it, and ran like crazy, then Trump eventually followed them, but surprisingly took it as it should be stated mainly towards himself, as the hypothetical deplorables, whom aren't his entire population, are implied to vote for him because he fits their deplorable narrative.



Yeah, thanks for that. So she obviously described the definition of a deplorable. Homophobes, misogynists, racists, etc... but never said voting for Trump makes you one. Its was still bitchy and condescending none the less, but entirely towards Trump, the well defined people of what a deplorable was, and people with too low of an IQ to understand she wasn't necessarily encompassing them personally.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Greyparrot
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11/10/2016 11:52:08 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 11:45:03 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/10/2016 11:29:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 11/10/2016 11:17:46 PM, Quadrunner wrote:

Yes she is, but she didn't call anyone a deplorable. That was an insult aimed directly at Trump. She said, not all of them but, a portion of his voters were deplorable....And the media took it out of context in the most emotionally stirring way they could spin it, and ran like crazy, then Trump eventually followed them, but surprisingly took it as it should be stated mainly towards himself, as the hypothetical deplorables, whom aren't his entire population, are implied to vote for him because he fits their deplorable narrative.



Yeah, thanks for that. So she obviously described the definition of a deplorable. Homophobes, misogynists, racists, etc... but never said voting for Trump makes you one. Its was still bitchy and condescending none the less, but entirely towards Trump, the well defined people of what a deplorable was, and people with too low of an IQ to understand she wasn't necessarily encompassing them personally.

She addressed supporters, not Trump. A fatal mistake for any politician.
Porkloin
Posts: 53
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11/11/2016 12:06:12 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
Good post, Agent Orange. I think we could also generalize that Trump did a better job of getting out the vote, and that his group of supporters (even if we want to say "older white people") tend to vote in higher percentages than do Hillary's.

It was really close in several states, Trump winning by a single percentage point or two, and had Hillary's people got out in numbers like they did when Obama first won the Presidency, she would have had it. Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan....

Trump's grandiose message did play pretty well across the 'rust belt,' but how much can he really deliver? Can Americans compete with people overseas making 50 cents an hour? I don't think so. How many coal miners can Trump put back to work? It's not Presidential fiat that has really been hammering coal, it's the huge supply and very low price of natural gas.

Not that a President cannot make quite a difference, and I'd say that Trump presents more possibility of change than the others in the past few decades. However, for most of us, does it really matter what the political party of the President is? I don't think it's a big deal at all. Had Dukakis beat Bush, or Gore beat Bush Jr., or Dole beat Clinton, what would it have mattered to most Americans after 4 or 8 years? Not much at all, I'd say./
Agent_Orange
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11/11/2016 12:15:47 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 10:18:36 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.

Not entirely true. She called them a basket of deplorables. Wonder how she feels about that statement now that they just told her to go screw herself?

Oh, and, pretty sure she is the racist, not Trump.

Yeah how do you figure?
#BlackLivesMatter
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,306
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11/11/2016 12:16:43 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 12:15:47 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 10:18:36 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.

Not entirely true. She called them a basket of deplorables. Wonder how she feels about that statement now that they just told her to go screw herself?

Oh, and, pretty sure she is the racist, not Trump.

Yeah how do you figure?

Probably by convincing half the country that Mexicans are a race.
Agent_Orange
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11/11/2016 12:21:21 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 9:33:38 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

That first paragraph sums it up pretty well. Additionally, as far as Democrats go, Clinton got her asss kicked in the minority department. She didn't pander well enough, or more likely literally pandered too much, and lost on the real issues. It was a "double whammy", meaning American's among all the largest racial demographics, the big three, voted at or above the average for trump. Racial demographics are a stupid measurement though. The reasons people vote, are not racial, and Hillary's racial view of voting seems to have cost her this election. Racism is just not a reliable model to base anything off of. Its idiotic to think that a population with a variety of views in relatively fixed (people are who they are) proportion will somehow change suddenly because you call another republican a racist and try to compliment the population you aren't shown to be helping without stating any change from the usual script. Like what did she expect, 90% of Mexicans to be directly related to illegal immigrants? You can't pick up votes simply by claiming to relate better to a race because its literally impossible to relate to a race.

Actually she did far far better with minorities than Trump did but the problem was that for whatever reason (I can think of a few) there were a sizable amount of minorities that said screw em both and went third party in protest. Especially when it came out that the DNC rooted against Bernie the whole time
#BlackLivesMatter
Quadrunner
Posts: 1,141
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11/11/2016 12:23:27 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 12:21:21 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 9:33:38 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

That first paragraph sums it up pretty well. Additionally, as far as Democrats go, Clinton got her asss kicked in the minority department. She didn't pander well enough, or more likely literally pandered too much, and lost on the real issues. It was a "double whammy", meaning American's among all the largest racial demographics, the big three, voted at or above the average for trump. Racial demographics are a stupid measurement though. The reasons people vote, are not racial, and Hillary's racial view of voting seems to have cost her this election. Racism is just not a reliable model to base anything off of. Its idiotic to think that a population with a variety of views in relatively fixed (people are who they are) proportion will somehow change suddenly because you call another republican a racist and try to compliment the population you aren't shown to be helping without stating any change from the usual script. Like what did she expect, 90% of Mexicans to be directly related to illegal immigrants? You can't pick up votes simply by claiming to relate better to a race because its literally impossible to relate to a race.

Actually she did far far better with minorities than Trump did but the problem was that for whatever reason (I can think of a few) there were a sizable amount of minorities that said screw em both and went third party in protest. Especially when it came out that the DNC rooted against Bernie the whole time

Yeah she did great, but Trump is in line with historical republican voting trends. She didn't do any better then any other democrat with any major racial demographic.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Agent_Orange
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11/11/2016 1:01:43 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 10:55:24 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

Yeah. Trump's anti-corporatism resonates much more than anything race based. People who have never met 'rednecks' don't know much about them. My dad fits the bill, but he and a lot of people like him will get very fired up over things like the North Dakota pipeline. I have never seen my father angrier over any political issue than he was over that, or the DKIST telescope. He literally screamed at a coworker 'Haven't we done enough to these fvcking people?! We kick them off their land, give them a little sh!tty piece, then we have to come fvck that up too? Let them have their fvcking mountain, they've been living there for how many fvcking years'

Most rural people hate a few things. They hate 'big city people' who look down on them to prop up their own sense of ill-begotten hauteur, they hate mercenary, multinational corporate interests, and they hate laziness. The Republican party has often used the last one to their advantage in things like 'welfare queen' stereotypes, but it's really the weakest of the three. Trump hit the first two, and laid off on the third, and the response was unprecedented. It certainly didn't hurt that Hillary was also an incarnation of the same qualities that Trump lambasted.

This is why I have more hope for race relations than just about at any time in the last decade. Trump ditched the welfare queen line. Completely. A few people on facebook have made half-hearted attempts to revive it, but they never really gained traction. That narrative is what props up racism in the rural areas, not the other way around. I've actually watched incredibly hostile racism that had been mounting in my area for the last few years evaporate once Trump won. It's pretty spectacular.

You know what I'll say this about liberal white people vs. conservative white people.

Some Liberal whites will go online and talk condemn culture appropriation and swear allegiance to black lives matter but will cross the street immediately if they see black people walking on the same side of the road.

While I've known conservative white people who will go "hey ALL lives matter!" But would be perfectly 100% comfortable at a black BBQ.

Just a funny observation. I'm not trying to make a point or anything
#BlackLivesMatter
Agent_Orange
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11/11/2016 1:04:42 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 12:16:43 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 11/11/2016 12:15:47 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 10:18:36 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:47:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:39:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

agreed, excellent points and good observations.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

They think there maybe a chance, but with Hillary there as definitely no hope, that's my guess anyway.

True. Trump, while I believe he doesn't give a crap about poor white people(why would he?) At the very least he spoke to them and addressed them. Hilary ( full disclosure: I voted for her) completely ignored them.

Not entirely true. She called them a basket of deplorables. Wonder how she feels about that statement now that they just told her to go screw herself?

Oh, and, pretty sure she is the racist, not Trump.

Yeah how do you figure?

Probably by convincing half the country that Mexicans are a race.

I'm not sure that was one of her plans but even if it was, that's not racist just incorrect
#BlackLivesMatter
Quadrunner
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11/11/2016 1:08:36 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/10/2016 11:52:08 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 11/10/2016 11:45:03 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/10/2016 11:29:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 11/10/2016 11:17:46 PM, Quadrunner wrote:

Yes she is, but she didn't call anyone a deplorable. That was an insult aimed directly at Trump. She said, not all of them but, a portion of his voters were deplorable....And the media took it out of context in the most emotionally stirring way they could spin it, and ran like crazy, then Trump eventually followed them, but surprisingly took it as it should be stated mainly towards himself, as the hypothetical deplorables, whom aren't his entire population, are implied to vote for him because he fits their deplorable narrative.



Yeah, thanks for that. So she obviously described the definition of a deplorable. Homophobes, misogynists, racists, etc... but never said voting for Trump makes you one. Its was still bitchy and condescending none the less, but entirely towards Trump, the well defined people of what a deplorable was, and people with too low of an IQ to understand she wasn't necessarily encompassing them personally.

She addressed supporters, not Trump. A fatal mistake for any politician.

Agreed, definitely a mistake. Not sure how many people took insult, but it made her a b!tch. They wrecked her with it. It was however, my favorite quote from her this election. Because at the time, I remember thinking, hmmm how did we get here.....Oh its because we've been supporting these politicians without thinking for sooo long, that now we are seriously considering Trump as the only competition....Trump. We, as voters, must have screwed up with our voting pretty bad. Perhaps we should further educate ourselves so that outrageous claims don't win elections in the future, and politicians become better through competition for our existent reasoning. It was before I decided not to vote for her, and was still waiting to see what how the heck Trump would solidify as a candidate.

As an independent I took it positively, as incentive for Trump supporters to research their candidate at the time, and also a complete Burn on Trump. It seemed like most people followed the herd though, or agreed she was stupid for saying it. I liked it actually. I thought the move seemed bold, and displayed a willingness to say things outside of political motive as she of all people should know the risk involved in that statement. The whole election went down from there for me as Trump was Trump, and she reverted to her usual self.
Wisdom is found where the wise seek it.
Skepsikyma
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11/11/2016 1:11:59 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 1:01:43 AM, Agent_Orange wrote:
At 11/10/2016 10:55:24 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/10/2016 8:21:04 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
It is a lot easier to determine the point of the switch. Working class rust belt whites have seen their communities getting worse while the rest of the country bounced back. Hillary didn"t do much to speak to them and specifically spoke about ending some of their few remaining employment alternatives (natural gas, oil, coal). These people never really gave a fuck_about identity politics or liberal values. They cared about jobs and unions. Trump (who is a total shit_heel) spoke to them about issues that mattered to them. By claiming racism, sexism, xenophobia, or other fun castigations, you are completely missing that these communities are reacting to their situation continuing to get worse.

The left is so damn arrogant. Every liberal KNEW Donald Trump was not only to lose but lose spectacularly. Look how that turned out.

Buuuuut Spoiler alert: it"s not going to get better for them. It"s been downhill for them since the Reagan administration, but they keep voting for the folks that ship their jobs overseas, bankrupt their pensions, pull their social safety nets, etc. Asking for sympathy while shooting yourself in the foot really only warrants a "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" response.

Yeah. Trump's anti-corporatism resonates much more than anything race based. People who have never met 'rednecks' don't know much about them. My dad fits the bill, but he and a lot of people like him will get very fired up over things like the North Dakota pipeline. I have never seen my father angrier over any political issue than he was over that, or the DKIST telescope. He literally screamed at a coworker 'Haven't we done enough to these fvcking people?! We kick them off their land, give them a little sh!tty piece, then we have to come fvck that up too? Let them have their fvcking mountain, they've been living there for how many fvcking years'

Most rural people hate a few things. They hate 'big city people' who look down on them to prop up their own sense of ill-begotten hauteur, they hate mercenary, multinational corporate interests, and they hate laziness. The Republican party has often used the last one to their advantage in things like 'welfare queen' stereotypes, but it's really the weakest of the three. Trump hit the first two, and laid off on the third, and the response was unprecedented. It certainly didn't hurt that Hillary was also an incarnation of the same qualities that Trump lambasted.

This is why I have more hope for race relations than just about at any time in the last decade. Trump ditched the welfare queen line. Completely. A few people on facebook have made half-hearted attempts to revive it, but they never really gained traction. That narrative is what props up racism in the rural areas, not the other way around. I've actually watched incredibly hostile racism that had been mounting in my area for the last few years evaporate once Trump won. It's pretty spectacular.

You know what I'll say this about liberal white people vs. conservative white people.

Some Liberal whites will go online and talk condemn culture appropriation and swear allegiance to black lives matter but will cross the street immediately if they see black people walking on the same side of the road.

While I've known conservative white people who will go "hey ALL lives matter!" But would be perfectly 100% comfortable at a black BBQ.

Just a funny observation. I'm not trying to make a point or anything

Yeah, it's generally true imo. Because I think that most white people in general don't know a lot of black people. 'Blue tribe' white people assume that black people are all 'blue tribe' because they vote democrat, but they aren't, they have their own party going on that doesn't really mesh with WASPish stuck-up culture. 'Red tribe' people assume the same thing. So once a 'Red tribe' person meets a black person, more often than not they hit it off because, culturally, they're more likely to have things in common, whereas the 'Blue tribe' people like to use black people as a bludgeon against 'racist' people in their white outgroup while keeping most black people at arms length unless they act 'properly'. There are always exceptions, but that's the general rule, especially among people aged 30+.

I know one guy in my area who likes to say that there are black people and niggers, and he likes the former but not the latter. I asked him if he ever met a nigger, and he got a bit mystified and said that he hadn't. There's still this stereotype hanging over in the rural white psyche from Reagan which doesn't represent most black people, and I hope that it manages to collapse more over the next few years. Because the same forces that afflict working class blacks do the same to whites.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -