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Who will Trump hurt the most?

YYW
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11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.
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FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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11/11/2016 3:51:34 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

Wait, are you telling me that giant flat screen that runs 600ish bucks, is really a luxury item that will possibly go for... like... more than 2 grand?

Or that this latest iPhone is really a 2K piece of hardware as well, and that its designed obsolescence will drastically hurt me, financially?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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imabench
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11/11/2016 3:58:23 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
I think the way Trump could do the most damage is by getting the tax cut he wants without reducing spending (probably increases it for the military) and keeps denying and refusing to fight global warming..... The environment and the national debt are the two hardest things for a future president to effectively address, so Trump neglecting or damaging either one of these could have an unshakeable impact on the country and over the next 50 years
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TBR
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11/11/2016 4:22:56 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

I'm inclined to quip. The same people who supported him, or perhaps every, regardless of race, creed or color. Truth is, we just have to wait and see. The first victims are showing up, and they are who we would expect. Hispanics, Muslims, gay people. Who will get the real kick in the gut? Too many.
MakeSensePeopleDont
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11/11/2016 4:24:02 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

Come on man
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
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11/11/2016 4:29:15 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
I don't wear jeans a lot but when I do, they are either true religion or affliction.

But then again I also have a boat, motorcycle, snowboard, pilots license, and over 200 pairs of shoes.

And runners? Brooks are by far the best. Cures my plantar fascia
Agent_Orange
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11/11/2016 4:31:40 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
My instinct is that it's going to hurt everyone. I have no idea why poor white people think a new York born billionaire gives a sh1t about them

He's shown he doesn't care enough about this country to pay taxes. He's hired illegal immigrants. He's shipped jobs to China. Now he cares?! Ok.

But for the most part I hope liberals use this time to grow up. Both sides act like petulant children but the left is supposed to be smarter. Let's see.
#BlackLivesMatter
Stymie13
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11/11/2016 4:43:34 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 4:31:40 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
My instinct is that it's going to hurt everyone. I have no idea why poor white people think a new York born billionaire gives a sh1t about them

He's shown he doesn't care enough about this country to pay taxes. He's hired illegal immigrants. He's shipped jobs to China. Now he cares?! Ok.

But for the most part I hope liberals use this time to grow up. Both sides act like petulant children but the left is supposed to be smarter. Let's see.

Don't hold your breath on that. An ex gf of mine who works for the DOJ quit talking to me for months when she found out I was independent and writing in my candidate
slo1
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11/11/2016 5:14:16 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:58:23 PM, imabench wrote:
I think the way Trump could do the most damage is by getting the tax cut he wants without reducing spending (probably increases it for the military) and keeps denying and refusing to fight global warming..... The environment and the national debt are the two hardest things for a future president to effectively address, so Trump neglecting or damaging either one of these could have an unshakeable impact on the country and over the next 50 years

Lot of people don't think about it but mercury is a big problem in our oceans which is why there are all these warnings on fish consumption. Mercury gets in the ocean food chain via burning coal. The roll back of environmental protections can be disastrous in the long run.

Are we moving back to times in the 70's when Ford dumped waste paint in the woods?

Also, consumer protections. Trump said there are 5000 drugs in the FDA pipeline today and wants to expedite them. Little does he know that only something like 7 percent will be proven effective and safe enough that it is tolerated without causing other health issues. What exactly will be changed at the FDA? Surely not more funding to hire more staff to get through the work load quicker.

There is grave potential to do much harm.
kevin24018
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11/11/2016 5:24:00 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 5:14:16 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:58:23 PM, imabench wrote:
I think the way Trump could do the most damage is by getting the tax cut he wants without reducing spending (probably increases it for the military) and keeps denying and refusing to fight global warming..... The environment and the national debt are the two hardest things for a future president to effectively address, so Trump neglecting or damaging either one of these could have an unshakeable impact on the country and over the next 50 years

Lot of people don't think about it but mercury is a big problem in our oceans which is why there are all these warnings on fish consumption. Mercury gets in the ocean food chain via burning coal. The roll back of environmental protections can be disastrous in the long run.

Are we moving back to times in the 70's when Ford dumped waste paint in the woods?

Also, consumer protections. Trump said there are 5000 drugs in the FDA pipeline today and wants to expedite them. Little does he know that only something like 7 percent will be proven effective and safe enough that it is tolerated without causing other health issues. What exactly will be changed at the FDA? Surely not more funding to hire more staff to get through the work load quicker.

There is grave potential to do much harm.

I think the U.S. is the slowest at approving drugs/procedures and other medical things, famous and wealthy people will seek treatment in Europe because it hasn't been approved in the U.S. yet, From what I recall the U.S. is about 10 years behind the other developed nations medical wise, at least compared to Europe.
slo1
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11/11/2016 5:54:48 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 5:24:00 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 5:14:16 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:58:23 PM, imabench wrote:
I think the way Trump could do the most damage is by getting the tax cut he wants without reducing spending (probably increases it for the military) and keeps denying and refusing to fight global warming..... The environment and the national debt are the two hardest things for a future president to effectively address, so Trump neglecting or damaging either one of these could have an unshakeable impact on the country and over the next 50 years

Lot of people don't think about it but mercury is a big problem in our oceans which is why there are all these warnings on fish consumption. Mercury gets in the ocean food chain via burning coal. The roll back of environmental protections can be disastrous in the long run.

Are we moving back to times in the 70's when Ford dumped waste paint in the woods?

Also, consumer protections. Trump said there are 5000 drugs in the FDA pipeline today and wants to expedite them. Little does he know that only something like 7 percent will be proven effective and safe enough that it is tolerated without causing other health issues. What exactly will be changed at the FDA? Surely not more funding to hire more staff to get through the work load quicker.

There is grave potential to do much harm.

I think the U.S. is the slowest at approving drugs/procedures and other medical things, famous and wealthy people will seek treatment in Europe because it hasn't been approved in the U.S. yet, From what I recall the U.S. is about 10 years behind the other developed nations medical wise, at least compared to Europe.

US approvals of new drugs last year was more than any year in the last 70 years. To imply that 5000 new drugs need to be pushed through faster is irresponsible as most are either not effective or do your body greater harm than good. The idea is to speed the process but continue have high standard to weed out the stuff that doesn't work.

In cases where an approved drug proved to be harmful it was generally because the length of studies were too short to pick up on the problem or unaccounted for variables in the population to patients.
Romanii
Posts: 4,863
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11/11/2016 7:43:47 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:

We already have protectionist policies on many agricultural industries, yet the world hasn't ended... there's no basis for the claim that fair trade would be a massive burden on the poor. Higher prices suck. but unemployment sucks even more. We have to strike a balance between the availability of consumer goods and the availability of low-skill jobs -- that's precisely what Trump's aim is.

Anyways, Trump's corporate tax cuts and business-friendly policies will likely mitigate a significant portion of the expense to companies of having to operate within the US, rendering any price increases to be more or less insignificant.

Also, didn't your man Bernie Sanders have the exact same trade policy as Trump...?
Blade-of-Truth
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11/11/2016 7:45:00 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

You spent $160.00 on a pair of New Balance shoes?!

As for the damage of purchasing Chinese goods, the increase in cost that would come from tariffs outweighs the harms of contributing to the wealth of an enemy state. By purchasing their goods rather than promoting the creation of such goods here in the States we are literally giving our money to a country that has, and will continue to, attack us and challenge our dominating position on the world stage. Their economy has already overtaken ours and I don't see how that's a good thing. The jobs growth that would rise from the increased demand of American-goods would, imo, balance out the increase in cost as well since those people would have more jobs to acquire an income from.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

So we should, in turn, support the slave wage issue currently plaguing a majority of these manufacturing countries suffering from outdated work laws? The people in these countries are suffering intolerable work hours and little-to-no fair, livable wages. Sure it'll be a little rocky at first, but in the long-term I think we'd be doing every one of those people a favor. I can't get behind supporting the continuation of this consumerism epidemic that hurts not only us (see: previous comment about how our purchases are helping line the pockets of our enemies), but also the people making these products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

So... Quality of products > Quality of life... this is a terrible position. You raised some good points about prices going up and how that would harm the consumer, but there are literally hundreds of thousands of people suffering due to this cycle of purchasing foreign-made goods. If we bring the jobs back to America, or, at the very-least, make the prices competitive again through tariffs and import taxes - perhaps we'll force the end of this harmful cycle.
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slo1
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11/11/2016 9:44:20 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 7:43:47 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:

We already have protectionist policies on many agricultural industries, yet the world hasn't ended... there's no basis for the claim that fair trade would be a massive burden on the poor. Higher prices suck. but unemployment sucks even more. We have to strike a balance between the availability of consumer goods and the availability of low-skill jobs -- that's precisely what Trump's aim is.


It is a balance. All trade deals require it. Some industries win and some lose in every trade deal. Even though with China we have the upper hand because we import $5 for every $1 we do significant exports to them. These industries could take a hit.

http://www.chinabusinessreview.com...

Agriculture, Boeing, and auto makers could take a hit. Do we really want to bring back light manufacturing, increase low wage jobs at expense of high wage jobs? Maybe we do, but trade is a complex thing and it is ripe for abuse of power as industries lobby and jockey to have the administration fight for their industry.

We probably would do better with open trade as possible and reforming the WTO to consider labor, environment and other factors when making ruling on unfair trade cases.

Anyways, Trump's corporate tax cuts and business-friendly policies will likely mitigate a significant portion of the expense to companies of having to operate within the US, rendering any price increases to be more or less insignificant.

Also, didn't your man Bernie Sanders have the exact same trade policy as Trump...?
Vox_Veritas
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11/11/2016 10:11:14 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
I think the greatest irony here is that up until very recently, the Left was adamantly opposed to free trade agreements as only serving corporate interests and making things worse for the common American.
But then Donald Trump came along and said the exact same thing, and it's anathema that the Left would agree with Donald Trump on anything, so now they've shifted to the Right so as to be in a state of disagreement with him.
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U.n
Posts: 214
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11/11/2016 10:57:06 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever

Are you saying Trump's kids are a bunch of baby aborting homosexuals?
Death23
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11/11/2016 11:05:47 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
The people who will probably be hurt the most are the ones who will need medical treatment but won't have access anymore due to the ACA being destroyed. The possibility of millions of people losing coverage is very real, and many of those people could suffer significant exacerbation or die.
RookieApologist
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11/11/2016 11:13:03 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
Who will Trump hurt the most?

Hopefully little snowflake college brats who think it's cool to leave their safe space for a day so they can skip an exam in order to riot in the streets.
Greyparrot
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11/11/2016 11:17:01 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
I think it's hilarious to point out how trump is going to raise the cost of living with his plans, but nobody bats an eye at the socialist's wage controls and minimum wage laws and high taxes and unfunded mandates doing the exact same thing....
YYW
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11/11/2016 11:58:05 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 10:11:14 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
I think the greatest irony here is that up until very recently, the Left was adamantly opposed to free trade agreements as only serving corporate interests and making things worse for the common American.

There is no question that the Left has failed to address the really significant implications that NAFTA has had on working people.

But then Donald Trump came along and said the exact same thing, and it's anathema that the Left would agree with Donald Trump on anything, so now they've shifted to the Right so as to be in a state of disagreement with him.

Sanders has been saying this forever, but you are correct that economic protectionism is not something that the mainstream left has even acknowledged.... ever.
Tsar of DDO
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11/12/2016 12:00:32 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 4:22:56 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

I'm inclined to quip. The same people who supported him, or perhaps every, regardless of race, creed or color. Truth is, we just have to wait and see. The first victims are showing up, and they are who we would expect. Hispanics, Muslims, gay people. Who will get the real kick in the gut? Too many.

Gays aren't a victim here. If he comes after us, it will cost him every scintilla of political capital he has. He knows that.

But you're right that a lot of groups have been adversely impacted by the FEW incredibly stupid people who believe that a Trump presidency means the return of white power politics to America. They will be sorely mistaken.

I will say this too... if anyone attacked me and my boyfriend in public, it would be the end of their health and their freedom.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:04:24 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 7:45:00 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

You spent $160.00 on a pair of New Balance shoes?!

I have.

As for the damage of purchasing Chinese goods, the increase in cost that would come from tariffs outweighs the harms of contributing to the wealth of an enemy state.

China is not an "enemy state" lol... come on. That doesn't even approach reasonableness. The chinese are adversaries but they are not our enemies.

By purchasing their goods rather than promoting the creation of such goods here in the States we are literally giving our money to a country that has, and will continue to, attack us and challenge our dominating position on the world stage. Their economy has already overtaken ours and I don't see how that's a good thing. The jobs growth that would rise from the increased demand of American-goods would, imo, balance out the increase in cost as well since those people would have more jobs to acquire an income from.

You're not right there.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

So we should, in turn, support the slave wage issue currently plaguing a majority of these manufacturing countries suffering from outdated work laws?

Hardly. That is not the only alternative here.

The people in these countries are suffering intolerable work hours and little-to-no fair, livable wages. Sure it'll be a little rocky at first, but in the long-term I think we'd be doing every one of those people a favor. I can't get behind supporting the continuation of this consumerism epidemic that hurts not only us (see: previous comment about how our purchases are helping line the pockets of our enemies), but also the people making these products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

So... Quality of products > Quality of life... this is a terrible position. You raised some good points about prices going up and how that would harm the consumer, but there are literally hundreds of thousands of people suffering due to this cycle of purchasing foreign-made goods. If we bring the jobs back to America, or, at the very-least, make the prices competitive again through tariffs and import taxes - perhaps we'll force the end of this harmful cycle.

That's not really an argument. I don't even know what "the harmful cycle" to which you refer is.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:09:22 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 7:43:47 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:

We already have protectionist policies on many agricultural industries,

At some point we're going to have to have a conversation about how agricultural tariffs work, because you're clearly profoundly ignorant with respect to that issue. The fact that some tariffs on certain products (namely tobacco, sugar, raw cotton, soy beans, peanuts, etc.) have not adversely impacted the whole economy does not mean that increasing the rate of tariffs, specifically, or economically protectionist policies, generally, would not result in net harms to any degree.

Likewise, your very myopic assumptions with respect to what impact "corporate tax cuts" (without even a scintilla of detail, like nature, extent, degree, etc.) don't even approach arguments. If your economic understanding is so generalized that "cutting taxes" in an abstract sense is enough to offset foreseeable economic catastrophe as a result of (bi, tri, or multilateral) tit-for-tat tariff escalation, then I really don't even see the point in having a conversation with you.

Like, I know you supported Trump. But, just because he won doesn't mean that you get to turn your brain off and assume uncritically that everything's going to be ok.

Also, didn't your man Bernie Sanders have the exact same trade policy as Trump...?

No. Do you read?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:12:34 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 10:57:06 PM, U.n wrote:
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever


Are you saying Trump's kids are a bunch of baby aborting homosexuals?

This is an incredibly stupid response. If you want me to care what you say, then you have to do better. I don't care how old you are, if this is the best you can do then you should be ashamed of yourself. Sad.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:12:59 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 11:17:01 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think it's hilarious to point out how trump is going to raise the cost of living with his plans, but nobody bats an eye at the socialist's wage controls and minimum wage laws and high taxes and unfunded mandates doing the exact same thing....

That's really why Warren can never be president.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:14:14 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 4:29:15 PM, Stymie13 wrote:
I don't wear jeans a lot but when I do, they are either true religion or affliction.

I don't think I've ever bought a pair of True Religion Jeans. I'm an AG, Citizens of Humanity, and 7 for All Mankind kind of guy. My little brother likes both, though.

But then again I also have a boat, motorcycle, snowboard, pilots license, and over 200 pairs of shoes.

oh my...

And runners? Brooks are by far the best. Cures my plantar fascia
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:16:12 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 4:31:40 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
My instinct is that it's going to hurt everyone. I have no idea why poor white people think a new York born billionaire gives a sh1t about them

My impulse is to say "because they are utterly stupid mouth breathers," but the more civil part of me would resist such a temptation.

He's shown he doesn't care enough about this country to pay taxes. He's hired illegal immigrants. He's shipped jobs to China. Now he cares?! Ok.

The irony is befuddling, yes. That is to say noting about his job killing vice president.

But for the most part I hope liberals use this time to grow up. Both sides act like petulant children but the left is supposed to be smarter. Let's see.

I hope the left learns from this, but from what I'm seeking... I'm dubious.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:20:13 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 11:05:47 PM, Death23 wrote:
The people who will probably be hurt the most are the ones who will need medical treatment but won't have access anymore due to the ACA being destroyed. The possibility of millions of people losing coverage is very real, and many of those people could suffer significant exacerbation or die.

As vacuous as your posts tend to be, health care is the elephant in the room and you are right that repealing the ACA would have disastrous implications for working class whites and everyone else who depends on it for health insurance coverage.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/12/2016 12:22:07 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 11:13:03 PM, RookieApologist wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

Hopefully little snowflake college brats who think it's cool to leave their safe space for a day so they can skip an exam in order to riot in the streets.

There is no question that this election was a giant "FUCK_YOU!" to the snotty asinine SJW types who bitch about imagined social plights who are so caught up in their own delusions of social injustice (e.g. microaggressions) that they lost touch with the reality that outside of their group, they are nearly universally despised by all people (including this guy).
Tsar of DDO
FourTrouble
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11/12/2016 1:10:29 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/11/2016 3:18:41 PM, YYW wrote:
Who will Trump hurt the most?

I don't know. I don't think he's going to allow gay marriage, abortion, or anything like that to change because it would doom his kids forever, and hurt his net worth. What I do know is that if he starts placing tariffs on foreign made goods, the people who buy cheaply made Chinese stuff are likely going to be the ones who hurt the hardest. That may make American goods more economically competitive, but the bottom line is that tariffs are going to make food, clothing, shoes, cars, tires, oil, and basically everything else that people need in their lives more expensive.

So, when your average Trump supporter goes into Walmart and their $100.00 worth of whatever that amount of money buys only goes as far as $50.00 or less, that's what making America great again is going to look like. Consumer prices are going to go up, and that's going to hurt working people, the poor... and the people who (unlike me) cannot afford to spend $180.00 - $275.00 on American made jeans (7 for all Mankind, Raleigh Denim, etc.; see Bloomingdales, Saks, etc.). Most of my clothes (except for Ralph Lauren) are made in the United States, Mexico, or some part of Europe. My new balance shoes were made in America, but those were like $160.00, which is *really* more than most people can afford.

And food... I can afford (and buy) locally grown stuff where possible (except, obviously, fresh fruit in the winter... almost all of which comes from South America). Will Trump start placing tariffs on food from south of the border? Idk. If he does, expect your grocery bills to double, triple or worse. My disposable income can absorb that, but I'm betting that your average Trump supporter who makes 1/6 - 1/2 of what I make cannot.

Forget about "healthy" school lunches, too. With the price of food going up like it might, just trying to get the money to buy it is what's going to be the real problem.

I understand that a lot of people don't like globalization or anything like it. They don't like trade deals, and they want manufacturing to come back. I, for one, hate the fact that Levis Jeans are now made in China, or whatever other country makes them because they are cheap now and I refuse to wear them. Terrible fabric. Terrible construction. Terrible quality. But even if Levis came back, the cost of production would be so high that most Americans would not be able to afford them because of what labor costs.

This is where a lot of those smug liberals are getting so bitter. WE KNOW how a globalizing economy works, but the uneducated white men and women who voted for Trump fail to appreciate the implications of what Trump's new trade deals would have on their bottom line. Like, the whole reason manufacturing left America in the first place was because the cost of production here was too high, such that they could not produce economically competitive products.

Now, if every product that comes in from abroad is going to be essentially taxed to the point that it is made economically competitive with American made goods, what the practical effect of that is going to be is a MOST regressive tax on America's most economically vulnerable. Ironically, these are the people who voted for Trump.

On the one hand, it's really smug and paternalistic to be engaged in the kind of metaphorical finger wagging that I am. I know that. Liberal paternalism is something that pisses people off and I understand that, but facts are facts.

If you want to know what cheap quality American made stuff is going to cost, take a look at American Apparel, where a terrible quality t shirt is like $28.00. Thank you, but no. I'll take my Chinese made Hanes T Shirt because it's better. But this is the direction we're going in.

Won't people earn more money, though, so that they can afford the higher prices?