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White nationalists

Stupidape
Posts: 171
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11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...
Kynikos
Posts: 53
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11/22/2016 5:22:05 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
You don't need a lot of genetic diversity to avoid serious health risks. Humans are pretty homogeneous genetically, so it's not like admixture would have a significant effect.
Death23
Posts: 781
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11/22/2016 5:38:26 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM, Stupidape wrote:
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...

There may be sufficient genetic diversity within a race to provide the vast majority of the benefit of that diversity without having to look outside the race to find it.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,291
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11/22/2016 6:54:49 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM, Stupidape wrote:
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...

Nature is extremely slow at adapting to changes. We will soon have the technology to alter DNA far faster than waiting thousands of years and hundreds of generations for natural mutations, regardless of culture or skin color.
Stupidape
Posts: 171
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11/22/2016 7:43:14 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:22:05 AM, Kynikos wrote:
You don't need a lot of genetic diversity to avoid serious health risks. Humans are pretty homogeneous genetically, so it's not like admixture would have a significant effect.

This is a bare assertion fallacy. A claim without a warrant.
Kynikos
Posts: 53
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11/22/2016 7:46:23 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 7:43:14 AM, Stupidape wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:22:05 AM, Kynikos wrote:
You don't need a lot of genetic diversity to avoid serious health risks. Humans are pretty homogeneous genetically, so it's not like admixture would have a significant effect.

This is a bare assertion fallacy. A claim without a warrant.
Not really; it's common knowledge as far as human genomics are concerned.

What you're bringing up in OP is only a concern in cases of inbreeding or extreme endogamy.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,177
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11/22/2016 1:31:04 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 7:46:23 AM, Kynikos wrote:
At 11/22/2016 7:43:14 AM, Stupidape wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:22:05 AM, Kynikos wrote:
You don't need a lot of genetic diversity to avoid serious health risks. Humans are pretty homogeneous genetically, so it's not like admixture would have a significant effect.

This is a bare assertion fallacy. A claim without a warrant.
Not really; it's common knowledge as far as human genomics are concerned.

What you're bringing up in OP is only a concern in cases of inbreeding or extreme endogamy.

Aren't domesticated dogs just as homogeneous genetically as humans?
Aren't purebred dogs prone to certain maladies unique to their family? This, dispute efforts by breeders to expand the gene pool within a family.
Aren't mongrel dogs by and large free of many of these maladies that may plague either parent?

A robust gene pool is very beneficial to a species, and doesn't maximum mixture between families expand the gene pool?

I might agree that "you don't need....." to avoid serious health risks, but isn't it true that what might not be needed is still beneficial, more beneficial than the alternatives?
How important is that qualifier "serious"?
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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11/22/2016 6:06:48 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM, Stupidape wrote:
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...

Of course it makes sense to those who live in fear. White supremacy is definitely linked to this ideology. Nationalism denotes supremacy because it involves genetics, social economic status, and of course, power.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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11/22/2016 6:27:20 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 6:06:48 PM, inferno wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM, Stupidape wrote:
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...

Of course it makes sense to those who live in fear. White supremacy is definitely linked to this ideology. Nationalism denotes supremacy because it involves genetics, social economic status, and of course, power.

Nationalism does not necessarily denote supremacy. There are many secessionist movements today (i.e. Catalan independence movement) based on nationalism. In the past there were many uprisings against colonialism which were inspired by nationalism. The Revolutions of 1848 (which were a precursor to German and Italian unification) were based on nationalism.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

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inferno
Posts: 10,655
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11/22/2016 6:41:23 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 6:27:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/22/2016 6:06:48 PM, inferno wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM, Stupidape wrote:
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...

Of course it makes sense to those who live in fear. White supremacy is definitely linked to this ideology. Nationalism denotes supremacy because it involves genetics, social economic status, and of course, power.

Nationalism does not necessarily denote supremacy. There are many secessionist movements today (i.e. Catalan independence movement) based on nationalism. In the past there were many uprisings against colonialism which were inspired by nationalism. The Revolutions of 1848 (which were a precursor to German and Italian unification) were based on nationalism.

Sure it does. The people who celebrate this theory waste no time explaining why they believe their culture or race is the "primary" race. This tone is echoed daily throughout these groups.
Kynikos
Posts: 53
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11/23/2016 12:08:47 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 1:31:04 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
Aren't domesticated dogs just as homogeneous genetically as humans?
Less so. Last I checked. But...
Aren't purebred dogs prone to certain maladies unique to their family? This, dispute efforts by breeders to expand the gene pool within a family.
Aren't mongrel dogs by and large free of many of these maladies that may plague either parent?
Because purebred dogs are pretty inbred. And most breeds are pretty recent (few hundred years old) too. That's not even accounting for differences in selection as a determinant for these groups.

They're a bad proxy for the variation between human races (or even ethnic groups). Not a good comparison.

A robust gene pool is very beneficial to a species, and doesn't maximum mixture between families expand the gene pool?
"Big" racial groups are pretty admixed (basally). Look at Reich's research with regard to Europeans, in particular.

I might agree that "you don't need....." to avoid serious health risks, but isn't it true that what might not be needed is still beneficial, more beneficial than the alternatives?
Not really. There are consequences (social, mostly) to race mixing that go beyond marginal health benefits.

How important is that qualifier "serious"?
Quite. Few groups have measurably higher rates of life-threatening conditions due to endogamy (Icelanders and Ashkenazim, maybe the Andamanese). And even then, it's not much (rate of Tay-Sachs is 3% vs .4% in the case of the Ashkenazi).
Kynikos
Posts: 53
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11/23/2016 12:15:40 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 6:41:23 PM, inferno wrote:
At 11/22/2016 6:27:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Nationalism does not necessarily denote supremacy.
Sure it does.
No it doesn't.
The people who celebrate this theory waste no time explaining why they believe their culture or race is the "primary" race. This tone is echoed daily throughout these groups.
Which has little to do with nationalism as an ideology or whatever. Most of its adherents don't care about supremacy.

It's about group interests. No one outside the fringe bubble gives a damn about "ultimate rank order" anymore.
MasonicSlayer
Posts: 2,320
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11/23/2016 3:24:28 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 7:43:14 AM, Stupidape wrote:
At 11/22/2016 5:22:05 AM, Kynikos wrote:
You don't need a lot of genetic diversity to avoid serious health risks. Humans are pretty homogeneous genetically, so it's not like admixture would have a significant effect.

This is a bare assertion fallacy. A claim without a warrant.

Are you saying Ireland is on the verge of becoming extinct? Or maybe those aborigines of New Zealand, who haven't seen an outsider since the begining of the creation of the universe, will somehow genetically implode within this year, unless some new ethnic genetics get mixed in?
Fernyx
Posts: 326
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11/23/2016 4:12:08 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/22/2016 5:07:05 AM, Stupidape wrote:
White nationalists makes no sense in my opinion. Genetic diversity keeps the species strong and thus is moral. The white nationalist movement threatens our genetic integrity leaving us vulnerable to disease and thus is immoral.

"Suppose there"s an outbreak of a disease that threatens to wipe out an entire species. The more genetic variability there is within that species, the higher the likelihood that at least some of the individuals will be resistant, and will survive. "

http://garden.org...

They are easily manipulated people who confuse culture with race and think of a race less because of the culture they created.