Total Posts:10|Showing Posts:1-10
Jump to topic:

Dakota Pipeline incident

TheFlex
Posts: 2,756
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/25/2016 12:50:50 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Recently, an article has been circulating of a protestor of the pipeline that had their arm mutilated by a concussion grenade. Both sides are, of course, blaming the other.

The protestors are claiming the security personnel threw a concussion and on detonation mutilated a woman's arm.

The police are claiming that is unlikely since they aren't issuing concussions grenades and its most likely came from a homemade explosive the protestors have been using.

I would like to hear you or thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I would also like to know if you think of the protestors are in the right. To my knowledge the Dakota Pipeline was all done in accordance with all proper state and federal regulations which included consulting the native tribes, and even routed the pipeline around sacred areas. So I don't see any legal or moral high ground for the protestors to protest.

Thoughts?
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,348
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/25/2016 1:20:33 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 11/25/2016 12:50:50 AM, TheFlex wrote:
Recently, an article has been circulating of a protestor of the pipeline that had their arm mutilated by a concussion grenade. Both sides are, of course, blaming the other.

The protestors are claiming the security personnel threw a concussion and on detonation mutilated a woman's arm.

The police are claiming that is unlikely since they aren't issuing concussions grenades and its most likely came from a homemade explosive the protestors have been using.

I would like to hear you or thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I would also like to know if you think of the protestors are in the right. To my knowledge the Dakota Pipeline was all done in accordance with all proper state and federal regulations which included consulting the native tribes, and even routed the pipeline around sacred areas. So I don't see any legal or moral high ground for the protestors to protest.

Thoughts?

The Police are simply denying their own responsibility. The Bulk of the Security personel are private and could very easily be issued those munitions.
"I am for Socialism because I am for Humanity"-Eugene Debs

UK Election Endorsement: Not Tories, LibDems or UKIP
Mr.Wonderful
Posts: 114
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/25/2016 5:41:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 11/25/2016 1:20:33 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/25/2016 12:50:50 AM, TheFlex wrote:
Recently, an article has been circulating of a protestor of the pipeline that had their arm mutilated by a concussion grenade. Both sides are, of course, blaming the other.

The protestors are claiming the security personnel threw a concussion and on detonation mutilated a woman's arm.

The police are claiming that is unlikely since they aren't issuing concussions grenades and its most likely came from a homemade explosive the protestors have been using.


I would like to hear you or thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I would also like to know if you think of the protestors are in the right. To my knowledge the Dakota Pipeline was all done in accordance with all proper state and federal regulations which included consulting the native tribes, and even routed the pipeline around sacred areas. So I don't see any legal or moral high ground for the protestors to protest.

Thoughts?

The Police are simply denying their own responsibility. The Bulk of the Security personnel are private and could very easily be issued those munitions.

Exactly, mercenaries aren't cops... its also hard to determine liability when you have multiple mercenary groups and police forces working together. In any case, yes its getting very violent up there. I worry for the safety of the protestors. Since the pipeline was constructed without the necessary permits and put conspicuously in the dumbest possible location (the widest part of the Missouri River)... yes, the protesters are right. This is a really reckless thing to do especially given that the alternative route through Bismarck, ND was largely welcomed, would have helped the local economy, and not infringed with any treaty granted our native people... who do make an excellent point when they talk about the high frequency of pipeline fractures and the decimation caused to populations living downstream (in this case over 11 million people could be poisoned or killed if it breaks). Also, if they wanted to increase job numbers it makes no sense to put it in the far more remote location and that presents a larger public safety hazard as well since it will take longer to reach and contain any spill. The placement of the pipeline was done either ignorantly, maliciously, or both.
Robkwoods
Posts: 588
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/25/2016 5:36:44 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 11/25/2016 12:50:50 AM, TheFlex wrote:
Recently, an article has been circulating of a protestor of the pipeline that had their arm mutilated by a concussion grenade. Both sides are, of course, blaming the other.

The protestors are claiming the security personnel threw a concussion and on detonation mutilated a woman's arm.

The police are claiming that is unlikely since they aren't issuing concussions grenades and its most likely came from a homemade explosive the protestors have been using.

I would like to hear you or thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I would also like to know if you think of the protestors are in the right. To my knowledge the Dakota Pipeline was all done in accordance with all proper state and federal regulations which included consulting the native tribes, and even routed the pipeline around sacred areas. So I don't see any legal or moral high ground for the protestors to protest.

Thoughts?

Concussion grenades don't produce shrapnel. I wouldn't be surprised if it was caused by a homemade device. They were already burning cars, tires, and damaging equipment. The protester are stupid, it is not their land. As a proponent of property rights if people were displaying this kind of behavior on my land, they would be removed by force, deadly if necessary.
Cubswin
Posts: 136
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 12:35:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Arrest and deport all the protestors. They are only there to serve foreign corporate interests and their poisonous agenda to destroy the nation. Rumor going around that the protestors are all being funded by Iran
Quadrunner
Posts: 3,015
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2016 9:28:50 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 11/25/2016 12:50:50 AM, TheFlex wrote:
Recently, an article has been circulating of a protestor of the pipeline that had their arm mutilated by a concussion grenade. Both sides are, of course, blaming the other.

The protestors are claiming the security personnel threw a concussion and on detonation mutilated a woman's arm.

The police are claiming that is unlikely since they aren't issuing concussions grenades and its most likely came from a homemade explosive the protestors have been using.

I would like to hear you or thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I would also like to know if you think of the protestors are in the right. To my knowledge the Dakota Pipeline was all done in accordance with all proper state and federal regulations which included consulting the native tribes, and even routed the pipeline around sacred areas. So I don't see any legal or moral high ground for the protestors to protest.

Thoughts?

I heard it was a concussion grenade, but now people are saying its more likely a propane tank and an accident being blown up through rumor. Major news agencies have been neglecting this story for a long time so we don't have reliable info, and its a biggy if you ask me.

My opinion is that you shouldn't let the news fool you as they try to put you on a side. Just watch uncut facebook videos if you are curious. Its widely filmed. Police and Protesters have been acting civilized for months, with minor disturbances. Its a conflict of interest. The police are being generous compared to what you would see on the coasts, actually almost the gold standard in my opinion. No felonies have been reported to my knowledge, which would be unusual in other parts of the country where police escalate according to policy without thought. Protesters are breaking the law, but aren't hurting a thing. The company is cooperating with the government as they "look into it". There was one mass arrest, and a lot of systematic warrants purportedly in an effort to maintain peace and order.

These protests are going on right now because of numerous oil spills that have been plaguing North Dakota for years. They have been trespassing and blocking the company, supposedly in an effort to buy time as they pursue legal venues to get it rerouted, or otherwise out their way, understandable from their perspective, and the cops (didn't know North Dakota had that many) get called to do their job. Trains have been a problem as well, but if the pipeline goes, well that would suck... People will say its a more reliable method and they are right, but North Dakota has been abused in the last few years this way. A pipeline doesn't simply drain out. It just keeps going if it malfunctions and its passing under the Missouri River.

There are some claims that may or may not be baseless, like building on burial grounds, which seems to have been projected from the fact that Indians lived and died on that land before it was taken from them by dishonest treaty years ago. I don't know of an actual burial ground though it is claimed to be out there somewhere and I'm not even sure they know where it would be. It was their property over 100 years ago, but those days are long gone. Surely there are legal battles going on with that implication.

There is a possibility, as can happen in this region, of government officials having gone through the legal technicalities, but making it nearly impossible for the people to represent their view despite official listings. The oil company is claiming they went through everything. The Indians are claiming they never wanted it, and it got pushed through.

Here is my thread. its got some links.
http://www.debate.org...
Quadrunner
Posts: 3,015
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2016 9:47:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 11/28/2016 9:28:50 PM, Quadrunner wrote:
At 11/25/2016 12:50:50 AM, TheFlex wrote:
Recently, an article has been circulating of a protestor of the pipeline that had their arm mutilated by a concussion grenade. Both sides are, of course, blaming the other.

The protestors are claiming the security personnel threw a concussion and on detonation mutilated a woman's arm.

The police are claiming that is unlikely since they aren't issuing concussions grenades and its most likely came from a homemade explosive the protestors have been using.

I would like to hear you or thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I would also like to know if you think of the protestors are in the right. To my knowledge the Dakota Pipeline was all done in accordance with all proper state and federal regulations which included consulting the native tribes, and even routed the pipeline around sacred areas. So I don't see any legal or moral high ground for the protestors to protest.

Thoughts?

I heard it was a concussion grenade, but now people are saying its more likely a propane tank and an accident being blown up through rumor. Major news agencies have been neglecting this story for a long time so we don't have reliable info, and its a biggy if you ask me.

My opinion is that you shouldn't let the news fool you as they try to put you on a side. Just watch uncut facebook videos if you are curious. Its widely filmed. Police and Protesters have been acting civilized for months, with minor disturbances. Its a conflict of interest. The police are being generous compared to what you would see on the coasts, actually almost the gold standard in my opinion. No felonies have been reported to my knowledge, which would be unusual in other parts of the country where police escalate according to policy without thought. Protesters are breaking the law, but aren't hurting a thing. The company is cooperating with the government as they "look into it". There was one mass arrest, and a lot of systematic warrants purportedly in an effort to maintain peace and order.

These protests are going on right now because of numerous oil spills that have been plaguing North Dakota for years. They have been trespassing and blocking the company, supposedly in an effort to buy time as they pursue legal venues to get it rerouted, or otherwise out their way, understandable from their perspective, and the cops (didn't know North Dakota had that many) get called to do their job. Trains have been a problem as well, but if the pipeline goes, well that would suck... People will say its a more reliable method and they are right, but North Dakota has been abused in the last few years this way. A pipeline doesn't simply drain out. It just keeps going if it malfunctions and its passing under the Missouri River.

There are some claims that may or may not be baseless, like building on burial grounds, which seems to have been projected from the fact that Indians lived and died on that land before it was taken from them by dishonest treaty years ago. I don't know of an actual burial ground though it is claimed to be out there somewhere and I'm not even sure they know where it would be. It was their property over 100 years ago, but those days are long gone. Surely there are legal battles going on with that implication.

There is a possibility, as can happen in this region, of government officials having gone through the legal technicalities, but making it nearly impossible for the people to represent their view despite official listings. The oil company is claiming they went through everything. The Indians are claiming they never wanted it, and it got pushed through.

Here is my thread. its got some links.
http://www.debate.org...

Scratch that on the felonies.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
ptosis
Posts: 1
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2016 6:28:20 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Possible police infiltration of protest for the agitation and promotion of violence to hijack and discredit a political position, (42 U.S. Code " 1985 " Conspiracy to interfere with civil rights).

"Use of militarized armored vehicles, riot gear, and tactics by law enforcement at protests that consist of peaceful prayer and nonviolent direct actions is a blatant misuse of these tools and will likely encourage police to use force against citizens when force is not necessary for the situation." - Jennifer Cook,

Water cannons during 20F temps along with LRAD, concussion grenades and rubber bullets. The police are calling it an "ongoing riot" as their defense for using these tactics but in the video, (link below), I saw people standing around and not any evidence of violent and uncontrolled public behavior - https://youtu.be...

From: https://www.washingtonpost.com...

"activists tried to remove the burned-out trucks to expose the heavily armed authorities behind them. "Folks have a right to be on a public road," Goldtooth said. "It"s absurd that people who"ve been trying to take down the barricade now have their lives at risk."

The bridge has been closed since October because transportation officials were concerned about its structural integrity. {If that is true then why are the cops equipment and personnel on it?}

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.c... " ght-166534

The federal government ordered Energy Transfer Partners and state authorities to stand down during attempts to de-escalate the situation. The federal departments of the Army and Interior also announced that the final easements for tunneling under the Missouri River at Lake Oahe will not be granted until there has been further review.

"The easement to build the unsafe Dakota Access Pipeline has not been granted," said Standing Rock Sioux Chairman David Archambault II in a statement. "But under the cover of darkness, North Dakota law enforcement continues to engage in unlawful and dehumanizing tactics to subdue peaceful water protectors with tear gas and water cannons."

It seems highly insincere reasoning by the police who are standing on the bridge with armoured weaponry if such a rickety bridge. The corporate trolls are calculating the blocked bridge will allow the construction to continue. And they are doing it with reckless disregard of human safety and dignity.

Sophia Wilansky had been hit by a concussion grenade. The Morton County Sheriff's dispatcher said that police only used nonlethal weapons against the protesters. So didn't deny using concussion grenades. Nonlethal doesn't mean noninjury.

Cops SAID they found propane tanks - well if that was true -- wouldn't the cops have pictures of this to bolster their position?

Amnesty International USA is now present at the Standing Rock Dakota pipeline protest to monitor the degree of force used in law enforcement.

"Where a small minority tries to turn a peaceful assembly into a violent one, law enforcement officials should protect the peaceful protesters and not use the violent acts of a few as a pretext to restrict or impede the exercise of the rights of a majority," - AI's letter to Sheriff Kirchmeier

UN Special Rapporteur Victoria Tauli-Corpus press release issued by the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR):

"The tribe was denied access to information and excluded from consultations at the planning stage of the project and environmental assessments failed to disclose the presence and proximity of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation.

"The United States should, in accordance with its commitment to implement the Declaration on the Rights on Indigenous Peoples, consult with the affected communities in good faith and ensure their free, and informed consent prior to the approval of any project affecting their lands, particularly in connection with extractive resource industries.

"I urge the United States Government to undertake a thorough review of its compliance with international standards regarding the obligation to consult with indigenous peoples and obtain their free and informed consent. The statutory framework should be amended to include provisions to that effect and it is important that the US Environmental Protection Agency and the US Advisory Council on Historic Preservation participate in the review of legislation."
Greyparrot
Posts: 16,157
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/29/2016 8:04:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
tresspassing.
I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations.
A singular development of cat communications
That obviates your basic hedonistic predilection,
For a rhythmic stroking of your fur to demonstrate affection.