Total Posts:27|Showing Posts:1-27
Jump to topic:

Jeremy Corbyn praises Fidel Castro

triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2016 9:25:28 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

I'm glad this guy isn't an American.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2016 11:16:05 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

I don't see how anyone can praise an authoritarian dictator who is also a communist while leading the major left wing UK political party. He drags labour so far to the left. Fortunately though it's this kind of statement that ensures Corbyns abysmal performance in the polls continue. Who trusts polls though after brexit and then Trump? This guy has to be taken seriously. He is not only a threat to the Labour party but a threat to the country.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,050
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2016 11:39:00 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

He sure was the champion of surviving assassination attempts.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,848
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/26/2016 11:49:53 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

Well, at least it wasn't like Martin McGuinness' "End of an Era. #FidelCastro RIP #Sad."
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 12:39:33 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 11:39:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

He sure was the champion of surviving assassination attempts.

Your profile picture used to be Jeremy Corbyn's name; do you really still support him after praising a communist?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 1:36:53 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

Probably because you don't know much about him.

I personally classify the systematic extrajudicial rape and torture of political opposition as a 'problem'. The man was paranoid to a degree that crippled his ability to lead.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 1:46:40 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 1:36:53 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

Probably because you don't know much about him.

I personally classify the systematic extrajudicial rape and torture of political opposition as a 'problem'. The man was paranoid to a degree that crippled his ability to lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org...'s_Chile

I'm well aware of the darker side of Pinochet's rule. However, he did what he felt was necessary and the end result was a Democratic and Capitalist Chile. Say what you want, but Chile's prosperity as the most successful nation in the Americas' after the US and Canada can be accredited to Pinochet saving Chile from Socialism and the far-left.
Fernyx
Posts: 326
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 1:49:42 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

Justin Trudeau

http://pm.gc.ca...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 1:55:25 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 1:46:40 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 1:36:53 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

Probably because you don't know much about him.

I personally classify the systematic extrajudicial rape and torture of political opposition as a 'problem'. The man was paranoid to a degree that crippled his ability to lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org...'s_Chile

I'm well aware of the darker side of Pinochet's rule. However, he did what he felt was necessary and the end result was a Democratic and Capitalist Chile. Say what you want, but Chile's prosperity as the most successful nation in the Americas' after the US and Canada can be accredited to Pinochet saving Chile from Socialism and the far-left.

By that logic, Hitler was also admirable. And I don't have any problem with saying that either man did admirable things. But holistically, I can't see either as great leaders. Hitler's reign ended with the firebombing of Dresden, genocide, and the mass rape of his people, and Pinochet's included forcing fathers to watch their daughters and wives be sadistically raped due to the man's overriding paranoid delusions.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,050
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:12:39 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 12:39:33 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/26/2016 11:39:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

He sure was the champion of surviving assassination attempts.

Your profile picture used to be Jeremy Corbyn's name; do you really still support him after praising a communist?

I still support him. My opinion of Castro is a little more mixed, but my opinion of Jeremy remains unchanged.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,050
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:13:58 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

And you criticize ME for supporting Corbyn while you support a fascist dictator?
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:19:31 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 2:13:58 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

And you criticize ME for supporting Corbyn while you support a fascist dictator?

Both of them are lunatics.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:38:22 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 2:13:58 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

And you criticize ME for supporting Corbyn while you support a fascist dictator?

Pinochet wasn't a fascist.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:40:58 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 1:55:25 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/27/2016 1:46:40 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 1:36:53 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

Probably because you don't know much about him.

I personally classify the systematic extrajudicial rape and torture of political opposition as a 'problem'. The man was paranoid to a degree that crippled his ability to lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org...'s_Chile

I'm well aware of the darker side of Pinochet's rule. However, he did what he felt was necessary and the end result was a Democratic and Capitalist Chile. Say what you want, but Chile's prosperity as the most successful nation in the Americas' after the US and Canada can be accredited to Pinochet saving Chile from Socialism and the far-left.

By that logic, Hitler was also admirable. And I don't have any problem with saying that either man did admirable things. But holistically, I can't see either as great leaders. Hitler's reign ended with the firebombing of Dresden, genocide, and the mass rape of his people, and Pinochet's included forcing fathers to watch their daughters and wives be sadistically raped due to the man's overriding paranoid delusions.

The rapes I don't approve of, but it wasn't really that frequent. Also, reductio ad hitlerium. Hitler's totalitarian reign was nothing compared to Pinochet.
I'll admit I was wrong to say there was no problem with Pinochet, but overall his impact on Chile was positive. He might just be the reason why Chile isn't just another poor socialist South American country. I agree his methods to achieve Capitalism and get rid of Communism were harsh, but overall his impact was positive.
Stymie13
Posts: 2,162
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:43:06 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 11:16:05 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

I don't see how anyone can praise an authoritarian dictator who is also a communist while leading the major left wing UK political party. He drags labour so far to the left. Fortunately though it's this kind of statement that ensures Corbyns abysmal performance in the polls continue. Who trusts polls though after brexit and then Trump? This guy has to be taken seriously. He is not only a threat to the Labour party but a threat to the country.

Oh my... a poll omission :) good for you!
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,050
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:50:21 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 2:19:31 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:13:58 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

And you criticize ME for supporting Corbyn while you support a fascist dictator?

Both of them are lunatics.

Corbyn doesn't support throwing people out of planes without parachutes and killing people in soccer stadiums.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 2:59:50 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 2:50:21 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:19:31 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:13:58 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:36:51 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 12:08:55 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

People love to signal by fetishizing the controversial. They know that it will rustle jimmies among the opposition and signal loyalty to their side. The far right do the same thing with Pinochet.

I don't see any problem with Pinochet

And you criticize ME for supporting Corbyn while you support a fascist dictator?

Both of them are lunatics.

Corbyn doesn't support throwing people out of planes without parachutes and killing people in soccer stadiums.

I meant Castro and Pinochet, but Corbyn is also a special kind of stupid, and makes Bernie Sanders look like a free market Capitalist.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 7:31:23 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 2:40:58 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

I'll admit I was wrong to say there was no problem with Pinochet, but overall his impact on Chile was positive. He might just be the reason why Chile isn't just another poor socialist South American country. I agree his methods to achieve Capitalism and get rid of Communism were harsh, but overall his impact was positive.

The same could be said about Castro. Sure he did bad things, but he left Cuba better than it was before under the circumstances of being threatened by the most powerful Empire on earth.

Also do you really think Pinochet wasn't a fascist dictator? I would saying being the head of a US backed coup to overthrow a democratically elected government is a bad sign.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 7:52:43 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 7:31:23 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:40:58 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

I'll admit I was wrong to say there was no problem with Pinochet, but overall his impact on Chile was positive. He might just be the reason why Chile isn't just another poor socialist South American country. I agree his methods to achieve Capitalism and get rid of Communism were harsh, but overall his impact was positive.

The same could be said about Castro. Sure he did bad things, but he left Cuba better than it was before under the circumstances of being threatened by the most powerful Empire on earth.
How was it better under independent communist rule? Had Cuba had stayed as an American territory/colony, it probably would have been better off today and have less human rights' violations.

Also do you really think Pinochet wasn't a fascist dictator? I would saying being the head of a US backed coup to overthrow a democratically elected government is a bad sign.
You mean a communist government? Also, Pinochet was far from fascism. Not every dictator is automatically fascist.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 8:29:43 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 7:52:43 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 7:31:23 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:40:58 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

I'll admit I was wrong to say there was no problem with Pinochet, but overall his impact on Chile was positive. He might just be the reason why Chile isn't just another poor socialist South American country. I agree his methods to achieve Capitalism and get rid of Communism were harsh, but overall his impact was positive.

The same could be said about Castro. Sure he did bad things, but he left Cuba better than it was before under the circumstances of being threatened by the most powerful Empire on earth.
How was it better under independent communist rule? Had Cuba had stayed as an American territory/colony, it probably would have been better off today and have less human rights' violations.

The Cuban people didn't want to be an American territory/colony. Had the US not tried to undermine everything Cuba was trying to do (like establish its own sovereignty) perhaps Castro would not have to be so paranoid and brutal towards those he thought collaborating against him (that that this makes the brutality acceptable). We obviously don't know how a client state Cuba would turn out, my guess is it would be an oligarchical state with the rich controlling everything and the poor working in sweat shops making goods for the US. Revolution was probably inevitable given how colonialism works - if not Castro someone else. The top comment by u/haalidoodi puts things in perspective. https://www.reddit.com...

Also do you really think Pinochet wasn't a fascist dictator? I would saying being the head of a US backed coup to overthrow a democratically elected government is a bad sign.
You mean a communist government? Also, Pinochet was far from fascism. Not every dictator is automatically fascist.

Democratically elected socialist government. Just because you disagree with the politics it doesn't justify violent overthrow or make it illegitimate. And I know not every dictator is fascist, I'm sure you'd be happy to bring up the communist ones like Stalin and Mao. But if you're bold enough to say (then retract) there were no problems to be had under Pinochet you should be reminded the political right is fully capable of fostering brutal dictators. We tend to call them pejoratively Fascist where as on the left they're called Communists.

I don't know what your standard of fascism is, but being a right wing military dictator that engaged in killing and 'disappearing' political opponents, censoring the press, and self promoting propaganda seems like something a fascist would do.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/27/2016 6:14:06 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:21:06 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jeremy-corbyn-hails-fidel-castro-as-a-champion-of-social-justice-a7440696.html%3Famp

Jeremy Corbyn has praised Fidel Castro and has called him a "huge figure" and a "champion of social justice" to commemorate his death.

Thoughts?

https://www.hrw.org...

The idea that he was a "champion of social justice" is laughable at best. Dude was a murderous dictator, period.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,647
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2016 12:42:56 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 8:29:43 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 7:52:43 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 7:31:23 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:40:58 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

I'll admit I was wrong to say there was no problem with Pinochet, but overall his impact on Chile was positive. He might just be the reason why Chile isn't just another poor socialist South American country. I agree his methods to achieve Capitalism and get rid of Communism were harsh, but overall his impact was positive.

The same could be said about Castro. Sure he did bad things, but he left Cuba better than it was before under the circumstances of being threatened by the most powerful Empire on earth.
How was it better under independent communist rule? Had Cuba had stayed as an American territory/colony, it probably would have been better off today and have less human rights' violations.

The Cuban people didn't want to be an American territory/colony. Had the US not tried to undermine everything Cuba was trying to do (like establish its own sovereignty) perhaps Castro would not have to be so paranoid and brutal towards those he thought collaborating against him (that that this makes the brutality acceptable).
They were best off as an American colony. The US took it after war with Spain, and had rightful claims to Cuba. Even if the Cubans were outraged at first, eventually they would accept American rule given that it would have been better for Cuba in the long run. If Cuba was an American territory to this day, Cubans wouldn't be building boats out of garbage to sail away from political repression.

We obviously don't know how a client state Cuba would turn out, my guess is it would be an oligarchical state with the rich controlling everything and the poor working in sweat shops making goods for the US.
What makes you say so? Were the Philippines ever like that? Is that how Guam, the virgin islands, and Puerto Rico are today?

Revolution was probably inevitable given how colonialism works - if not Castro someone else. The top comment by u/haalidoodi puts things in perspective. https://www.reddit.com...
The revolution could have been easily counteracted but the US attempt to crush it was absolutely stupid. The US had all means to hold on to Cuba, but we didn't bother to suppress the independence movement. Also remember that Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are relatively happy as an American subject.

Also do you really think Pinochet wasn't a fascist dictator? I would saying being the head of a US backed coup to overthrow a democratically elected government is a bad sign.
You mean a communist government? Also, Pinochet was far from fascism. Not every dictator is automatically fascist.

Democratically elected socialist government. Just because you disagree with the politics it doesn't justify violent overthrow or make it illegitimate. And I know not every dictator is fascist, I'm sure you'd be happy to bring up the communist ones like Stalin and Mao.
https://en.wikipedia.org...(nominal)_per_capita
https://en.wikipedia.org...
And when you compare Chile to the rest of South America, Chile and Argentina are the most prosperous countries in South America, and that's because they aren't socialist.

Democratic or not, the socialist government would have ruined Chile and made it as poor as the rest of South America. However, Pinochet's coup and dictatorship, while relatively brutal, suppressed the far-left and gave way to a prosperous capitalist modern-day Chile. If Chile didn't have a capitalist dictatorship to transition it away from Socialism, there would be starvation and breadlines like with what happens in countries like Venezuela.

But if you're bold enough to say (then retract) there were no problems to be had under Pinochet you should be reminded the political right is fully capable of fostering brutal dictators. We tend to call them pejoratively Fascist where as on the left they're called Communists.
No, not all dictators are fascist. Also remember that free markets are far from fascism, and that Pinochet's main targets were the far-left who were bent to destroy Chile.
I am not saying that Pinochet didn't go overboard at times, but he did what he did and the result was a capitalist Chile.

I don't know what your standard of fascism is, but being a right wing military dictator that engaged in killing and 'disappearing' political opponents, censoring the press, and self promoting propaganda seems like something a fascist would do.
Which was all against the far-left and was needed to suppress them from destroying Chile.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,227
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2016 4:11:11 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/28/2016 12:42:56 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 8:29:43 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 7:52:43 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/27/2016 7:31:23 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/27/2016 2:40:58 AM, triangle.128k wrote:

How was it better under independent communist rule? Had Cuba had stayed as an American territory/colony, it probably would have been better off today and have less human rights' violations.

The Cuban people didn't want to be an American territory/colony. Had the US not tried to undermine everything Cuba was trying to do (like establish its own sovereignty) perhaps Castro would not have to be so paranoid and brutal towards those he thought collaborating against him (that that this makes the brutality acceptable).
They were best off as an American colony. The US took it after war with Spain, and had rightful claims to Cuba.

Holy sh!t you're a deluded imperialist. Seriously, what RIGHT does the US have to Cuba? Throwing off Spanish imperialism doesn't justify US imperialism.

Even if the Cubans were outraged at first, eventually they would accept American rule given that it would have been better for Cuba in the long run.

Yea I'm sure the peasant farmers/miners working slave wages would come to appreciate their puppet government that would probably commit similar atrocities to maintain US hegemony as Castro did.

"At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands"almost all the cattle ranches"90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions"80 percent of the utilities"practically all the oil industry"and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports." http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu...

If Cuba was an American territory to this day, Cubans wouldn't be building boats out of garbage to sail away from political repression.

Because they'd be too busy fighting the US on their own land for their own sovereignty. You're seriously deluded. You'd think an American, a former colony of Britain, would fuking understand that colonialism doesn't last and when the imperialist resists the changing tides violence is inevitable.

You have no friggin idea that the reason that latin America is so prone to socialism is because the US is constantly imperlizing them and making themselves the enemy.

We obviously don't know how a client state Cuba would turn out, my guess is it would be an oligarchical state with the rich controlling everything and the poor working in sweat shops making goods for the US.
What makes you say so? Were the Philippines ever like that? Is that how Guam, the virgin islands, and Puerto Rico are today?

You do realize the Philippines fought a brutal war against the US to free themselves right? Turns out when you claim to liberate a people only to replace the oppressor natives don't really see that as a win win.

Guam? An island with less than 170,000 people propped up by US military bases? Seriously. https://thestripesblog.com...

Puerto Rico? You mean that territory that despite having a population bigger than many states has no political representation (When more than half want to end territory status)? Why did America rebel against Britain again? From colony to colonizer amirite? But I digress. Puerto Rico is going bankrupt.

Revolution was probably inevitable given how colonialism works - if not Castro someone else. The top comment by u/haalidoodi puts things in perspective. https://www.reddit.com...
The revolution could have been easily counteracted but the US attempt to crush it was absolutely stupid. The US had all means to hold on to Cuba, but we didn't bother to suppress the independence movement. Also remember that Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are relatively happy as an American subject.

Do you realize how you sound? The US crushing popular resistance to hold onto territory it has no right to? When you watch Star Wars you're not suppose to side with Empire you sociopath.

As far as the happiness of the virgin islands goes I'll definitely need citation on that. Puerto Rico doesn't want to be a subject anymore - most want statehood, roughly 40% want more sovereignty.

Also do you really think Pinochet wasn't a fascist dictator? I would saying being the head of a US backed coup to overthrow a democratically elected government is a bad sign.
You mean a communist government? Also, Pinochet was far from fascism. Not every dictator is automatically fascist.

Democratically elected socialist government. Just because you disagree with the politics it doesn't justify violent overthrow or make it illegitimate. And I know not every dictator is fascist, I'm sure you'd be happy to bring up the communist ones like Stalin and Mao.
https://en.wikipedia.org...(nominal)_per_capita
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your first link is broken. But looks like Cuba is #5. That despite having the greatest super power plot to overthrow the government and force an embargo on it. HA! Chile? What a joke, the US played a major role in the economic turmoil before the coup and it played a major role in revitalizing the economy. It wasn't capitalism, it was neo-colonialism.

And when you compare Chile to the rest of South America, Chile and Argentina are the most prosperous countries in South America, and that's because they aren't socialist.

ARGENTINA????? You mean that country that went through a 4 year depression 1998-2002 and just a few years ago filed for bankruptcy??? That's your example of prosperous capitalism??? Jesus. http://fortune.com...

Democratic or not, the socialist government would have ruined Chile and made it as poor as the rest of South America. However, Pinochet's coup and dictatorship, while relatively brutal, suppressed the far-left and gave way to a prosperous capitalist modern-day Chile. If Chile didn't have a capitalist dictatorship to transition it away from Socialism, there would be starvation and breadlines like with what happens in countries like Venezuela.

.. dude. If the US left south America alone and didn't constantly support coups those socialist governments could focus on their people instead of their militaries. The "prosperity" of chile was backed by the US to fight against socialism, it has nothing to do with economics and all about politics.

But if you're bold enough to say (then retract) there were no problems to be had under Pinochet you should be reminded the political right is fully capable of fostering brutal dictators. We tend to call them pejoratively Fascist where as on the left they're called Communists.
No, not all dictators are fascist. Also remember that free markets are far from fascism, and that Pinochet's main targets were the far-left who were bent to destroy Chile.
I am not saying that Pinochet didn't go overboard at times, but he did what he did and the result was a capitalist Chile.

Lol so dumb, ok Castro was heavy handed but he did what he did and the result was socialist Cuba.

I don't know what your standard of fascism is, but being a right wing military dictator that engaged in killing and 'disappearing' political opponents, censoring the press, and self promoting propaganda seems like something a fascist would do.
Which was all against the far-left and was needed to suppress them from destroying Chile.

Which was against the far right and was needed to suppress them from destroying Cuba.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,246
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/28/2016 7:55:39 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis Fidel Castro sent false information to the Soviet Union in an attempt to start a nuclear war between Russia and the United States, which would probably have ended human civilization. To his credit he later acknowledged that this was a huge mistake, but nevertheless, he's the kind of guy who would be willing to destroy humanity just to stick it to the enemies of his crackpot economic theories.