Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

Ratio of Liberals to Conservatives

rarugged
Posts: 172
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2011 10:39:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is an extremely broad and probably obtuse question, but I've been wondering:

Are there far more liberals than conservatives on this site?

Liberal/Conservative in a very general sense... if you don't "categorize" yourself being affiliated specifically with one side of the spectrum, you would be classified onto the side that BEST represented the LARGER majority of your views.

Anyways, for people who've been here longer than me:

What's your take on the ratio of liberals to conservatives?
If Jesus came back tomorrow, a cross would be the last thing he would want to see.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2011 11:02:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.debate.org...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 11:45:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 10:39:07 PM, rarugged wrote:
This is an extremely broad and probably obtuse question, but I've been wondering:

Are there far more liberals than conservatives on this site?

Liberal/Conservative in a very general sense... if you don't "categorize" yourself being affiliated specifically with one side of the spectrum, you would be classified onto the side that BEST represented the LARGER majority of your views.:

That's too difficult for me to do because I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. It honestly depends on the subject. If it's about gay marriage, I might sound like a pinko-commie, if it's about communism, I might sound like a Nazi stormtrooper.

What's your take on the ratio of liberals to conservatives?:

I don't know. We don't have that many typical progressives (don't call them liberals, that word was hijacked) or too many fascists (I mean, conservatives). I'd say that we have more moderates than anything else -- people who don't side with partisan lines but with specific issues.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 12:34:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
the demographics linked by reasoning don't really count since 99% of accounts are inactive. Among active users, there's a slight advantage of modern liberals of various degrees to libertarians, and the numbers of conservatives are tiny.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 1:15:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 10:39:07 PM, rarugged wrote:
This is an extremely broad and probably obtuse question, but I've been wondering:

Are there far more liberals than conservatives on this site?

Liberal/Conservative in a very general sense... if you don't "categorize" yourself being affiliated specifically with one side of the spectrum, you would be classified onto the side that BEST represented the LARGER majority of your views.


Anyways, for people who've been here longer than me:

What's your take on the ratio of liberals to conservatives?

What category do libertarians, miniarchists, and anarchists fall into? Which ever one they fall into wins hands down.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 2:47:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Interesting how a politically neutral site (actually now with f*cking stars in the banner) has a strong ancap presence.
Things that are so interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:30:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 10:39:07 PM, rarugged wrote:
This is an extremely broad and probably obtuse question, but I've been wondering:

Are there far more liberals than conservatives on this site?

Liberal/Conservative in a very general sense... if you don't "categorize" yourself being affiliated specifically with one side of the spectrum, you would be classified onto the side that BEST represented the LARGER majority of your views.


Anyways, for people who've been here longer than me:

What's your take on the ratio of liberals to conservatives?

Well, my viewpoint is very much to the left of the socio-political spectrum, and whenever I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me. I don't really get responses from too many fellow lefties. So, judging by my personal experience I'd say that this site is heavily dominated by folks whose thinking is somewhat to the right.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:31:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I side with certain issues rather than a certain ideology.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:35:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/24/2011 3:30:03 PM, charleslb wrote:

Well, my viewpoint is very much to the left of the socio-political spectrum, and whenever I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me. I don't really get responses from too many fellow lefties.

No one really pays attention to you. Right or left.

So, judging by my personal experience I'd say that this site is heavily dominated by folks whose thinking is somewhat to the right.

The free market is to the left of the status quo. People like Reasoning are self describe leftists.
Things that are so interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:39:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/24/2011 3:35:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
At 1/24/2011 3:30:03 PM, charleslb wrote:

Well, my viewpoint is very much to the left of the socio-political spectrum, and whenever I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me. I don't really get responses from too many fellow lefties.

No one really pays attention to you. Right or left.

I saw one of charlesB's posts. It was way too long for me to even attempt to read.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:50:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well, my viewpoint is very much to the left of the socio-political spectrum, and whenever I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me.:

Dear Lord, you are sensitive. Nobody attacked you, they simply mentioned that your posts are too long. Do you need to change your tampon or something? How about a hug?

*Gives Charlie huggles 'n' snuggles*

I don't really get responses from too many fellow lefties. So, judging by my personal experience I'd say that this site is heavily dominated by folks whose thinking is somewhat to the right.:

The forum definitely leans to the left.... but then, for a communist, that's just not left enough, aye comrade?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:52:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I saw one of charlesB's posts. It was way too long for me to even attempt to read.:

LOL! According to Engels over there that makes you a libertarian.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/24/2011 3:54:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/24/2011 3:52:14 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I saw one of charlesB's posts. It was way too long for me to even attempt to read.:

LOL! According to Engels over there that makes you a libertarian.

Hahaha I'm not even close... -__-
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 12:59:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/24/2011 3:50:12 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Well, my viewpoint is very much to the left of the socio-political spectrum, and whenever I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me.:

Dear Lord, you are sensitive. Nobody attacked you, they simply mentioned that your posts are too long. Do you need to change your tampon or something? How about a hug?

*Gives Charlie huggles 'n' snuggles*

I don't really get responses from too many fellow lefties. So, judging by my personal experience I'd say that this site is heavily dominated by folks whose thinking is somewhat to the right.:

The forum definitely leans to the left.... but then, for a communist, that's just not left enough, aye comrade?

Well, I'm not egocentric enough to expect you to be keeping track of the kind of feedback I receive, but if you were you would not dispute my claim that I often come under attack. As for being "sensitive", to state the fact that as a leftist I'm in hostile territory at this site does not betray excessive sensitivity, and your derisive attempt to portray me as laughably sensitive is just another example in support of my contention that it's primarily folks whose mentality is on the right who have the sweet-natured need to needle me.

Well, let's just take a sampling from this thread. HatedeatH is a conservative, Sieben describes himself as an anarchist in his profile, but his strain of anarchism is clearly of the libertarian ilk, and you, dear PARADIGM_LOST, are a libertarian. It's clear that people of your political orientation have a sharp bias against me. And it's also clear that people of your political orientation have a combative, captious, and caviling streak in your psychological makeup. This has to do with the origin of the right-wing orientation in man's primal mentalité that values superiority and dominance. Hence the conservative's hawkishness when it comes to military and foreign policy; hence his/her preference for capitalism, a system that allows individuals to seek economic dominance; hence his/her tendency to look down on the members of capitalism's unsuccessful underclass, i.e. the homeless and welfare moms, as contemptible losers, to the conservative's mind they simply lack the right stuff to deserve any respect; and hence the aggressive, insulting, and moralizing (being insulting and moralizing is just another way of asserting superiority and dominance) way that conservatives tend to speak to and about those with whom they find themselves in disagreement.

In other words, conservatism comes from the primitive alpha dog in all of us, hardcore conservatives are simply those people who let the barking of their inner alpha dog drown out the "still small voice" of human kindness and ethical-spiritual enlightenment that's also in all of us. This is why conservatives tend to be unkind and ungentle, and to be derisive and disdainful about "sensitivity". And it's why I'm so annoying to the conservative majority at this site, my views fly in the face of their inner alpha dog. But that's okay, keep barking, maybe one day you'll hear what you really sound like and the resulting epiphany will kick-start your moral and spiritual evolution.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:02:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/24/2011 3:30:03 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 1/23/2011 10:39:07 PM, rarugged wrote:
This is an extremely broad and probably obtuse question, but I've been wondering:

Are there far more liberals than conservatives on this site?

Liberal/Conservative in a very general sense... if you don't "categorize" yourself being affiliated specifically with one side of the spectrum, you would be classified onto the side that BEST represented the LARGER majority of your views.


Anyways, for people who've been here longer than me:

What's your take on the ratio of liberals to conservatives?

Well, my viewpoint is very much to the left of the socio-political spectrum, and whenever I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me. I don't really get responses from too many fellow lefties. So, judging by my personal experience I'd say that this site is heavily dominated by folks whose thinking is somewhat to the right.

Yes we should all coddle charles and his viewpoints.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:05:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Way to label me as a conservative. I'm actually more of a moderate. It just says conservative now as a joke. I'm actually going to change that back to reduce confusion.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:06:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oh, and btw, we don't ignore you're posts because you're a leftist. It's because they're too long. If you want to make posts that long take it too debate as I have seen many long debates.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:10:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It can seen that the great majority of active users here are either on the Libertarian-Right or Libertarian-Left. Right and left-wise, we are about equal but we almost have no Authoritarians here.

http://www.debate.org...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:13:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 1:10:40 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It can seen that the great majority of active users here are either on the Libertarian-Right or Libertarian-Left. Right and left-wise, we are about equal but we almost have no Authoritarians here.

http://www.debate.org...

We need some authoritarians. It would spice things up. I talked to Mirza before and he seems authoritarian, supporting stoning. What's with that sh-t?!
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:18:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 1:02:58 AM, askbob wrote:

Yes we should all coddle charles and his viewpoints.

Dear askbob, read my reply right above yours. And, consistent with its analysis, you're a libertarian! (BTW, you really have that insensitive libertarian tone down pat, but then it seems to be natural for libertarians/conservatives. Note your choice of words, note how the word "coddle" makes me out to be emotionally weak, and by inference makes you out to be the emotionally stronger. Strength, toughness, dominance, the classic core values of the alpha dog mentality, you betray that these are the core values of your own "libertarian" mentality, more confirmation for my analysis of right-wing psychology. Thanks.)
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:23:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 1:13:07 AM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/25/2011 1:10:40 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It can seen that the great majority of active users here are either on the Libertarian-Right or Libertarian-Left. Right and left-wise, we are about equal but we almost have no Authoritarians here.

http://www.debate.org...

We need some authoritarians. It would spice things up. I talked to Mirza before and he seems authoritarian, supporting stoning. What's with that sh-t?!

"Authoritarians" have been placed on the New Members Initiative list created by the Party Party. You can expect some to be popping up eventually.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:41:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 1:23:42 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 1/25/2011 1:13:07 AM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/25/2011 1:10:40 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It can seen that the great majority of active users here are either on the Libertarian-Right or Libertarian-Left. Right and left-wise, we are about equal but we almost have no Authoritarians here.

http://www.debate.org...

We need some authoritarians. It would spice things up. I talked to Mirza before and he seems authoritarian, supporting stoning. What's with that sh-t?!

"Authoritarians" have been placed on the New Members Initiative list created by the Party Party. You can expect some to be popping up eventually.

Good, they better come!
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 1:57:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is going to be fun. Charleslb, I'm going to speak in your language for a bit...

You have asserted that not only are your views attacked but that their substance is disregarded and met with unfair criticism. However, you have failed to acknowledge that there is no substance to your posts. And whatever criticism that comes to you from fellow users is completely justified. I challenge you to find one person on this site who has not been criticized for their beliefs, opinions or ideology. You are too busy playing the victim card to step back and objectively view this situation you have created within your own mind. Now, there is no Libertarian vendetta against you. There is no secret Libertarian PM made solely for the purpose of criticizing your views. Your ideas and ideals are rarely regarded as anything "special" since they're merely copy and pasted from a blog with no real intention for open and honest discourse.

I would take a random guess and say that the reason why your usual responses come from Libertarians is because there's an overwhelming majority of Libertarians active within the forums. Does this mean they are "attacking" you because they are Libertarian? No. Their hatred for your self-absorbed and verbose rants are entirely personal and based on your lack of understanding of proper etiquette when posting within a thread on DDO. I find your posts to be self-serving, arrogant, unsubstantiated, void of meaning and for the purpose of your own intellectual masturbation. It's fine to get off to the structure of your own sentences -- on your blog. On DDO however, we tend to prefer concise posts with a purpose. You seem to have internet tourette syndrome which results in random spewing on nonsense. Anyways, the point here is simple -- you are "attacked" based on the length of your posts. You are "attacked" because, even though you will use 16,000 characters, you still convey nothing. And you are "attacked" because after multiple times of people posting "tl;dr", you have yet to cut down on the unnecessary crap.

But suck it up. We are all challenged on this site. You might be challenged in more ways that one, but I assure you that your posts are not a hot topic via PM or even forum discussion. We now merely gloss over your post and sigh. I love how you talk down to PARADIGM_LOST, askbob and others on this site and then berate others for speaking with the same candor. But this is simply another contradiction in your own character.

I could go on but that would be just rude. Good day.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 7:31:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 10:39:07 PM, rarugged wrote:
This is an extremely broad and probably obtuse question, but I've been wondering:

Are there far more liberals than conservatives on this site?

Liberal/Conservative in a very general sense...

In broad terms of social liberties, yes. There are far more active liberals here.

In the broadly economic sense that conservatives want the rich to stay rich and the poor to stay poor, no. There are far more active conservatives here.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/25/2011 9:55:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 1:23:42 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 1/25/2011 1:13:07 AM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/25/2011 1:10:40 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It can seen that the great majority of active users here are either on the Libertarian-Right or Libertarian-Left. Right and left-wise, we are about equal but we almost have no Authoritarians here.

http://www.debate.org...

We need some authoritarians. It would spice things up. I talked to Mirza before and he seems authoritarian, supporting stoning. What's with that sh-t?!

"Authoritarians" have been placed on the New Members Initiative list created by the Party Party. You can expect some to be popping up eventually.

Good ones, don't get the stupid crazy ones.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/26/2011 12:10:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 1:57:54 AM, annhasle wrote:
This is going to be fun. Charleslb, I'm going to speak in your language for a bit...

You have asserted that not only are your views attacked but that their substance is disregarded and met with unfair criticism. However, you have failed to acknowledge that there is no substance to your posts. And whatever criticism that comes to you from fellow users is completely justified. I challenge you to find one person on this site who has not been criticized for their beliefs, opinions or ideology. You are too busy playing the victim card to step back and objectively view this situation you have created within your own mind. Now, there is no Libertarian vendetta against you. There is no secret Libertarian PM made solely for the purpose of criticizing your views. Your ideas and ideals are rarely regarded as anything "special" since they're merely copy and pasted from a blog with no real intention for open and honest discourse.

I would take a random guess and say that the reason why your usual responses come from Libertarians is because there's an overwhelming majority of Libertarians active within the forums. Does this mean they are "attacking" you because they are Libertarian? No. Their hatred for your self-absorbed and verbose rants are entirely personal and based on your lack of understanding of proper etiquette when posting within a thread on DDO. I find your posts to be self-serving, arrogant, unsubstantiated, void of meaning and for the purpose of your own intellectual masturbation. It's fine to get off to the structure of your own sentences -- on your blog. On DDO however, we tend to prefer concise posts with a purpose. You seem to have internet tourette syndrome which results in random spewing on nonsense. Anyways, the point here is simple -- you are "attacked" based on the length of your posts. You are "attacked" because, even though you will use 16,000 characters, you still convey nothing. And you are "attacked" because after multiple times of people posting "tl;dr", you have yet to cut down on the unnecessary crap.

But suck it up. We are all challenged on this site. You might be challenged in more ways that one, but I assure you that your posts are not a hot topic via PM or even forum discussion. We now merely gloss over your post and sigh. I love how you talk down to PARADIGM_LOST, askbob and others on this site and then berate others for speaking with the same candor. But this is simply another contradiction in your own character.

I could go on but that would be just rude. Good day.

Rude, you, annhasle? Oh my, I can't imagine you ever being rude. Well, thanks at least for writing something intelligent, not astute or correct, but intelligent in the sense of being well thought out and well constructed.

And BTW, I appreciate your attempt to "speak like" me, but to quote Joyce Brothers, "Listening, not imitation, may be the sincerest form of flattery."
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Grape
Posts: 989
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/28/2011 11:44:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/24/2011 3:30:03 PM, charleslb wrote:
I post my thoughts on some subject the conservatives, free-marketeers, and libertarians come out of the woodwork to attack me.


They do not "come out of the woodwork to attack you." JKenyon, Sieben, and Reasoning have an extremely strong presence in the intellectual culture of this site. There are several other fairly prominent members, including Paradigm, Ann, and me, who hold similar enough views to be considered in the same camp. I would not consider Cody, RoyLatham, or theLwerd to be that far off. If you are economically leftist, you are going to be challenging many of the biggest intellectual heavyweights. If you want to establish a leftist presence of equal influence you're going to have to fight for it. Complains gets you approximately nothing. That's how it works here.