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question on property rights..

badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 6:47:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
how're things? i'm fine anyway :)

right, say if i were to park on someone's private property.. and they clamped me.. would i be able to take that clamp off myself without suffering any penalties if i were to do so without damaging the clamp... becasue that's what i did lol.. they wanted 120 euro to remove it and i was like, "fvck that", so i banged off the wheel and popped out the wishbone and slid it off around it myself and... FOR FREE!!!

so what i'm wondering is do you lot think i'll get in any trouble for this? like i didn't damage the clamp... and on the sheet the clamper prick stuck to my window it said that if i tried to remove it that i might be done for criminal damage... but i didn't cause any.. so i'm away with it, right? i think i am...
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feverish
Posts: 2,716
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1/25/2011 7:25:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think you should be fine man. Clampers are only legally entitled to impose a removal fee from my understanding. They're mostly cowboys operating on the fringes of legality anyway. Fvck 'em.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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1/25/2011 9:32:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Top tip, Badger - I'll try that the next time I'm clamped.

The only question is, what did you do with the clamp? You may not have damaged it but what if some pikey wogged it after you left it lying about?

You might be forced to buy a new one to replace the one that was stolen.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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1/25/2011 9:43:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 9:32:40 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
what if some pikey wogged it after you left it lying about?

Wow Brian, first jewing and now wogging lol. You are the king of un-PC comedy. Good point as well, didn't think of that.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Badger, although I could go into a protracted explanation of how property rights are the devil and cause such foolishness in the first place, I would say that you are actually just victim of silly regulations. The fact that the clamp is property of the state is not as important as the fact that they simply said that if you do x, they are going to fine you $y. Just be lucky you don't live over here; you guys in Europe have way more lax parking laws than we do.
no comment
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies. The state would just give you a parking ticket or in extreme circumstances tow you away.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/25/2011 10:12:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 6:47:40 AM, badger wrote:
how're things? i'm fine anyway :)

right, say if i were to park on someone's private property.. and they clamped me.. would i be able to take that clamp off myself without suffering any penalties if i were to do so without damaging the clamp... becasue that's what i did lol.. they wanted 120 euro to remove it and i was like, "fvck that", so i banged off the wheel and popped out the wishbone and slid it off around it myself and... FOR FREE!!!

so what i'm wondering is do you lot think i'll get in any trouble for this? like i didn't damage the clamp... and on the sheet the clamper prick stuck to my window it said that if i tried to remove it that i might be done for criminal damage... but i didn't cause any.. so i'm away with it, right? i think i am...

Who clapped you? An individual, a company, the government?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/25/2011 10:14:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 9:32:40 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Top tip, Badger - I'll try that the next time I'm clamped.

The only question is, what did you do with the clamp? You may not have damaged it but what if some pikey wogged it after you left it lying about?

You might be forced to buy a new one to replace the one that was stolen.

Well, if he left it on their private property, I don't see how he could be responsible to it being stolen, now if he left it on public property and it was taken, maybe.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/25/2011 10:46:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 6:47:40 AM, badger wrote:
how're things? i'm fine anyway :)

right, say if i were to park on someone's private property.. and they clamped me.. would i be able to take that clamp off myself without suffering any penalties if i were to do so without damaging the clamp... becasue that's what i did lol.. they wanted 120 euro to remove it and i was like, "fvck that", so i banged off the wheel and popped out the wishbone and slid it off around it myself and... FOR FREE!!!

so what i'm wondering is do you lot think i'll get in any trouble for this? like i didn't damage the clamp... and on the sheet the clamper prick stuck to my window it said that if i tried to remove it that i might be done for criminal damage... but i didn't cause any.. so i'm away with it, right? i think i am...:

From a legal perspective, no you aren't right, and yes you'll probably get in trouble. You do understand that they record your license plate before they put the "clamp" (we call it a "boot" in the States) on your car. The premise is that you can't use your car until you pay the fine to have them remove it. I doubt they're just going to forget about it, unless they have a terrible filing system. You may fall through the cracks of their system, but I doubt it.

I think it's extortion, but I'm looking at this from purely a legal point of view without making any judgments on the law itself.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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1/25/2011 10:48:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies.:

Really? Is that legal? If this is the case (I assumed government authorites were doing this) then there is a good chance he got away with it.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/25/2011 10:52:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:48:11 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies.:

Really? Is that legal? If this is the case (I assumed government authorites were doing this) then there is a good chance he got away with it.

Yeah, any private company would have to have a permit by the state (government) which authorizes them to be able to do that under set rules and with set fines. So I can't just put a clamp on your car and say "you owe me $5,000 or I'm keeping your car."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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1/25/2011 11:10:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:48:11 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies.:

Really? Is that legal? If this is the case (I assumed government authorites were doing this) then there is a good chance he got away with it.

Looks like it is currently in the process of being banned actually, http://www.guardian.co.uk... but yes, until very recently it was extremely widespread. The owners of a property would have an arrangement or make a specific call to a clamping company who would then clamp the car and charge the owner a release fee. Would have thought that you libertarians would approve of this.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 11:38:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 9:32:40 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Top tip, Badger - I'll try that the next time I'm clamped.

The only question is, what did you do with the clamp? You may not have damaged it but what if some pikey wogged it after you left it lying about?

You might be forced to buy a new one to replace the one that was stolen.

forgot that part.. well i was actually caught by one of the clampers while i was taking it off.. but he was only laughing about it and he told me to leave it there for him if i got it off, so i did.. and i met him there again there yesterday and he said he'd collected it.. so i'm off scot free... surely? leaving it there was actually what i was most nervous about... but i was thinking, how would they have proved i robbed it anyway? ..if i hadn't robbed it lol.. i'd imagine it'd have been fairly hard.. innocent until proven guilty and all that, right?
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 11:38:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies. The state would just give you a parking ticket or in extreme circumstances tow you away.

this.
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 11:39:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:14:30 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:32:40 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Top tip, Badger - I'll try that the next time I'm clamped.

The only question is, what did you do with the clamp? You may not have damaged it but what if some pikey wogged it after you left it lying about?

You might be forced to buy a new one to replace the one that was stolen.

Well, if he left it on their private property, I don't see how he could be responsible to it being stolen, now if he left it on public property and it was taken, maybe.

this also.
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 11:42:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:46:11 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/25/2011 6:47:40 AM, badger wrote:
how're things? i'm fine anyway :)

right, say if i were to park on someone's private property.. and they clamped me.. would i be able to take that clamp off myself without suffering any penalties if i were to do so without damaging the clamp... becasue that's what i did lol.. they wanted 120 euro to remove it and i was like, "fvck that", so i banged off the wheel and popped out the wishbone and slid it off around it myself and... FOR FREE!!!

so what i'm wondering is do you lot think i'll get in any trouble for this? like i didn't damage the clamp... and on the sheet the clamper prick stuck to my window it said that if i tried to remove it that i might be done for criminal damage... but i didn't cause any.. so i'm away with it, right? i think i am...:

From a legal perspective, no you aren't right, and yes you'll probably get in trouble. You do understand that they record your license plate before they put the "clamp" (we call it a "boot" in the States) on your car. The premise is that you can't use your car until you pay the fine to have them remove it. I doubt they're just going to forget about it, unless they have a terrible filing system. You may fall through the cracks of their system, but I doubt it.

I think it's extortion, but I'm looking at this from purely a legal point of view without making any judgments on the law itself.

from a purely legal point of view i think you're completely wrong.. but maybe our laws are different..i don't think i've broken any laws.. there's no law over here that says you can't trespass on private property....it's breaking and entering that's criminal, not entering.. and i didn't break anything, so...?
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 11:43:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:48:11 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies.:

Really? Is that legal? If this is the case (I assumed government authorites were doing this) then there is a good chance he got away with it.

woo hoo!
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/25/2011 11:51:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:52:20 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:48:11 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies.:

Really? Is that legal? If this is the case (I assumed government authorites were doing this) then there is a good chance he got away with it.

Yeah, any private company would have to have a permit by the state (government) which authorizes them to be able to do that under set rules and with set fines. So I can't just put a clamp on your car and say "you owe me $5,000 or I'm keeping your car."

so you think they actually must have authority? i'd have thought you actually could do something like that as long as it was on your property... and it'd be 5 grand or the car stays there, rather than it becoming your property.. like i actually phoned up about the fine first and asked 'em what'd happen if i didn't pay it.. and they said it'd stay there indefinitely.. so it didn't really sound like they'd an authority at all... besides the clamp which i couldn't legally damage..
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/25/2011 12:22:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies. The state would just give you a parking ticket or in extreme circumstances tow you away.

same here.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/25/2011 12:25:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/25/2011 10:52:20 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:48:11 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/25/2011 10:08:43 AM, feverish wrote:
At 1/25/2011 9:52:53 AM, Caramel wrote:
the clamp is property of the state.

Actually in the UK and I presume in Ireland, the vast majority of clamping is carried out by dodgy private companies.:

Really? Is that legal? If this is the case (I assumed government authorites were doing this) then there is a good chance he got away with it.

Yeah, any private company would have to have a permit by the state (government) which authorizes them to be able to do that under set rules and with set fines. So I can't just put a clamp on your car and say "you owe me $5,000 or I'm keeping your car."

I know in NY private companies are allowed to do it if you park in their lot w/o permission.

Though there's laws as to how much they can charge to release you...
$75 bucks in Westchester
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/25/2011 12:30:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
and badger... I think you're scot free.

what are they gonna do? sue you for a couple bucks??

It wouldn't be worth it.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."