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Death Penalty

blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/3/2011 4:25:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to know what everyones opinion on capital punishment is, and why they have that opinion/stance? I know the stance can be looked up through checking profiles, but I can't check the reasons.

Personally, I am for and against it. If I had to choose one, though, I'd say I'm against it. I'm not against it for the reasons you might think. I don't think it's morally wrong, or cruel. I don't think it's necessarily a harsh enough punishment in all situations.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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2/3/2011 4:54:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm kinda undecided. I use to be totally against it, but now I've been looking at it a new way.

If a person goes out and rapes and kills like 20 people, that person deserves to die.
Eye for eye and tooth for tooth is a cruel system. That's why we need to invest more money into rehabilitation systems so the problems can be stopped.

All in all, it should be kept, but it shouldn't be used as liberally and as often as it is now.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/3/2011 5:01:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If there were this many people exonerated from DNA evidence, just imagine how many have died as innocent people.

http://www.innocenceproject.org...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/3/2011 6:05:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM, comoncents wrote:
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.

Wouldn't letting 100 guilty murderers out on the streets risk more lives then the 1 innocent man?

Personally, I'm all for it, there is nothing wrong with the DP, there is something wrong (imperfect) with our legal system. So lets fix what has the problem.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/3/2011 7:27:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 6:05:59 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM, comoncents wrote:
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.

Wouldn't letting 100 guilty murderers out on the streets risk more lives then the 1 innocent man?

Personally, I'm all for it, there is nothing wrong with the DP, there is something wrong (imperfect) with our legal system. So lets fix what has the problem.:

Convince me that it's the right thing to do. I'm open to suggestion.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/3/2011 7:30:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 7:27:25 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/3/2011 6:05:59 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM, comoncents wrote:
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.

Wouldn't letting 100 guilty murderers out on the streets risk more lives then the 1 innocent man?

Personally, I'm all for it, there is nothing wrong with the DP, there is something wrong (imperfect) with our legal system. So lets fix what has the problem.:

Convince me that it's the right thing to do. I'm open to suggestion.

First tell us why it would be the "wrong" thing to do. :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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2/3/2011 7:41:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The "CSI Effect" is the result of all the forensic evidence on TV shows. Juries now want DNA evidence to convict someone of littering. If life imprisonment is the maximum penalty, the convict then has a free pass to kill inmates or guards with no additional penalty. Innocent people can also be killed in escape attempts.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/3/2011 7:52:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 7:30:12 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 7:27:25 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/3/2011 6:05:59 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM, comoncents wrote:
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.

Wouldn't letting 100 guilty murderers out on the streets risk more lives then the 1 innocent man?

Personally, I'm all for it, there is nothing wrong with the DP, there is something wrong (imperfect) with our legal system. So lets fix what has the problem.:

Convince me that it's the right thing to do. I'm open to suggestion.

First tell us why it would be the "wrong" thing to do.:

Argh, you're too clever and too cute, Ann!!! :)
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/3/2011 8:03:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Watch the Movie "The Secret In Their Eyes"

That's how I feel about the death penalty.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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2/3/2011 8:42:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 7:52:08 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/3/2011 7:30:12 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 7:27:25 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/3/2011 6:05:59 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM, comoncents wrote:
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.

Wouldn't letting 100 guilty murderers out on the streets risk more lives then the 1 innocent man?

Personally, I'm all for it, there is nothing wrong with the DP, there is something wrong (imperfect) with our legal system. So lets fix what has the problem.:

Convince me that it's the right thing to do. I'm open to suggestion.

First tell us why it would be the "wrong" thing to do.:

Argh, you're too clever and too cute, Ann!!! :)

Haha! It's a curse. ;)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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2/4/2011 1:30:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree with what OreEle said
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/4/2011 1:35:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am pro death penalty in principle.

The purpose of punishment should be to rehabilitate people, certain people are beyond rehabiliation. Why should we expend any resources on them, surely the sensible thing is to simply execute them and harvest their organs.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/4/2011 5:48:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/4/2011 1:35:13 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am pro death penalty in principle.

The purpose of punishment should be to rehabilitate people, certain people are beyond rehabiliation. Why should we expend any resources on them, surely the sensible thing is to simply execute them and harvest their organs.:

It costs more money to keep prisoners on death row than it does life in prison.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com...

Also, harvesting the organs of prisoners now is done through horrific vivesections. It's a huge cottage industry in China. What's the assurance that we won't fall down a similar path?

Given the number of exonerate people AFTER the fact, wouldn't you say that we need to fix a broken system before we start harvesting organs of innocent people?

http://www.innocenceproject.org...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/5/2011 7:56:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 8:42:18 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 7:52:08 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/3/2011 7:30:12 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 7:27:25 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/3/2011 6:05:59 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/3/2011 5:05:50 PM, comoncents wrote:
I do not like it. I was into capital punishment until I researched how many errors are made.
I would rather 100 guilty out of jail then condemn 1 innocent man.

Wouldn't letting 100 guilty murderers out on the streets risk more lives then the 1 innocent man?

Personally, I'm all for it, there is nothing wrong with the DP, there is something wrong (imperfect) with our legal system. So lets fix what has the problem.:

Convince me that it's the right thing to do. I'm open to suggestion.

First tell us why it would be the "wrong" thing to do.:

Argh, you're too clever and too cute, Ann!!! :)

Haha! It's a curse. ;)

I agree with OreEle. As for comoncents, letting the hundred out would put them back out on the streets to commit crime, but what about the saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? The many criminals "need" to be killed, so that outweighs the one innocent. Another way to look at it is the many civilians "need" the prisoners killed. I don't like the fact that some innocents die, but the change needs to be in the legal system like OreEle said.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/5/2011 8:19:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree with OreEle. As for comoncents, letting the hundred out would put them back out on the streets to commit crime, but what about the saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? The many criminals "need" to be killed, so that outweighs the one innocent. Another way to look at it is the many civilians "need" the prisoners killed. I don't like the fact that some innocents die, but the change needs to be in the legal system like OreEle said.:

We're talking about one innocent, we're talking a hundred. The fact that this many people are being charged with crimes they didn't commit is simply unacceptable. This is a gross miscarriage of justice in a land that tried to set the standard for equity.

Until the system is fixed, I wouldn't kill another soul.

http://www.innocenceproject.org...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/5/2011 8:21:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 8:19:15 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I agree with OreEle. As for comoncents, letting the hundred out would put them back out on the streets to commit crime, but what about the saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? The many criminals "need" to be killed, so that outweighs the one innocent. Another way to look at it is the many civilians "need" the prisoners killed. I don't like the fact that some innocents die, but the change needs to be in the legal system like OreEle said.:

We're talking about one innocent, we're talking a hundred. The fact that this many people are being charged with crimes they didn't commit is simply unacceptable. This is a gross miscarriage of justice in a land that tried to set the standard for equity.

Until the system is fixed, I wouldn't kill another soul.

http://www.innocenceproject.org...
Your opposition of death penalty lies within the risk that innocents might get sentenced to death?
badger
Posts: 11,793
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2/5/2011 12:11:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/3/2011 7:41:18 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
The "CSI Effect" is the result of all the forensic evidence on TV shows. Juries now want DNA evidence to convict someone of littering. If life imprisonment is the maximum penalty, the convict then has a free pass to kill inmates or guards with no additional penalty. Innocent people can also be killed in escape attempts.

way to go changing my opinion there again bud. you just love tearing my world to pieces, don't you?
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/5/2011 2:09:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Your opposition of death penalty lies within the risk that innocents might get sentenced to death?:

No, I'm just proving how many errors there really are. These are people that were scheduled to die, and it boggles the mind wondering how many people the world over have been falsely accused and executed for nothing.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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2/5/2011 2:11:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 2:09:42 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Your opposition of death penalty lies within the risk that innocents might get sentenced to death?:

No, I'm just proving how many errors there really are. These are people that were scheduled to die, and it boggles the mind wondering how many people the world over have been falsely accused and executed for nothing.
Your alternative to tough crimes is life imprisonment?
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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2/6/2011 10:38:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/5/2011 8:19:15 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I agree with OreEle. As for comoncents, letting the hundred out would put them back out on the streets to commit crime, but what about the saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? The many criminals "need" to be killed, so that outweighs the one innocent. Another way to look at it is the many civilians "need" the prisoners killed. I don't like the fact that some innocents die, but the change needs to be in the legal system like OreEle said.:

We're talking about one innocent, we're talking a hundred. The fact that this many people are being charged with crimes they didn't commit is simply unacceptable. This is a gross miscarriage of justice in a land that tried to set the standard for equity.

Until the system is fixed, I wouldn't kill another soul.

http://www.innocenceproject.org...

The hundred are murderers, the one is the innocent.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/6/2011 8:58:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/4/2011 5:48:03 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/4/2011 1:35:13 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am pro death penalty in principle.

The purpose of punishment should be to rehabilitate people, certain people are beyond rehabiliation. Why should we expend any resources on them, surely the sensible thing is to simply execute them and harvest their organs.:

It costs more money to keep prisoners on death row than it does life in prison.


I don't want to keep them on death row, I want to kill them.

Also, harvesting the organs of prisoners now is done through horrific vivesections. It's a huge cottage industry in China. What's the assurance that we won't fall down a similar path?

Erm... I don't want such an assurance, I am cool with that.

Given the number of exonerate people AFTER the fact, wouldn't you say that we need to fix a broken system before we start harvesting organs of innocent people?

That is why I am only provisionally in support of the death penalty.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/6/2011 10:50:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm for the concept, not so much liking how the system works in the USA.

Paradigm, as long as a legal system exists; innocent people are going to be punished. You can not escape this fact. It stands to reason that more innocent people live out life sentences in prison than were innocent and executed.

Is that not worse?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
TombLikeBomb
Posts: 639
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2/8/2011 6:14:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/6/2011 10:50:12 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'm for the concept, not so much liking how the system works in the USA.

Paradigm, as long as a legal system exists; innocent people are going to be punished. You can not escape this fact. It stands to reason that more innocent people live out life sentences in prison than were innocent and executed.

Is that not worse?

Only if life imprisonment is a harsher punishment than death, which would also make it a better deterrent. But life imprisonment, unlike death, is not necessarily the same for the falsely convicted, because of the chance of exoneration.
From the time of the progressive era with the rise of public schooling through the post-WWII period, capital invaded the time workers had liberated from waged work and shaped it for purposes of social control. Perhaps the most obvious moment of this colonization was the re-incarceration in schools of the young (who were expelled from the factories by child labor laws) such that what might have been free time was structured to convert their life energies into labor power.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/8/2011 6:19:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/8/2011 6:14:59 PM, TombLikeBomb wrote:
At 2/6/2011 10:50:12 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'm for the concept, not so much liking how the system works in the USA.

Paradigm, as long as a legal system exists; innocent people are going to be punished. You can not escape this fact. It stands to reason that more innocent people live out life sentences in prison than were innocent and executed.

Is that not worse?

Only if life imprisonment is a harsher punishment than death, which would also make it a better deterrent. But life imprisonment, unlike death, is not necessarily the same for the falsely convicted, because of the chance of exoneration.

That is why we don't execute people 2 weeks after they are found guilty, they wait, and wait, and wait, in case something comes up that does exonerate them.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/8/2011 6:31:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
TombLikeBomb
Posts: 639
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2/8/2011 7:56:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/8/2011 6:19:28 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/8/2011 6:14:59 PM, TombLikeBomb wrote:
At 2/6/2011 10:50:12 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'm for the concept, not so much liking how the system works in the USA.

Paradigm, as long as a legal system exists; innocent people are going to be punished. You can not escape this fact. It stands to reason that more innocent people live out life sentences in prison than were innocent and executed.

Is that not worse?

Only if life imprisonment is a harsher punishment than death, which would also make it a better deterrent. But life imprisonment, unlike death, is not necessarily the same for the falsely convicted, because of the chance of exoneration.

That is why we don't execute people 2 weeks after they are found guilty, they wait, and wait, and wait, in case something comes up that does exonerate them.

That makes the fact that something often comes up after they've been executed (after efforts to exonerate them have relaxed) an even greater problem for the death penalty. And your argument has a problem similar to Korashk's: the certainty gained by waiting longer to execute the convict comes at the cost of the difference between life imprisonment and the death penalty, from the perspective of both those meant to fear it and those meant to fund it, and thus the benefits of the death penalty in cases in which the convict really is guilty.
From the time of the progressive era with the rise of public schooling through the post-WWII period, capital invaded the time workers had liberated from waged work and shaped it for purposes of social control. Perhaps the most obvious moment of this colonization was the re-incarceration in schools of the young (who were expelled from the factories by child labor laws) such that what might have been free time was structured to convert their life energies into labor power.