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Ron Paul is an anarchist.

J.Kenyon
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2/11/2011 11:53:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's true and you know it.

At 15:20, he says we should "swear off the use of violence against our friends, neighbors, and other countries."

At 16:30: "government should never be able to do anything you can't do."

*pauses for thunderous applause*

"If you can't steal from your neighbor, you can't send the government to your neighbor to steal for you."

At 17:20 "What If I could, if I had the authority to do it, what if I could offer you and say 'look, we're not doing such a good job being government these days. We make promises and we don't know about the future. But would you consider opting out of the whole system, under one condition, you pay 10% of your income, but you take care of yourself. You don't ask the government for anything.'"

As a sidenote, it's a pretty kickass speech. Paul has been delivering polemics on monetary policy and whatnot for years, so I'm guessing that's why he always seemed a bit awkward at events like CPAC in the past. He sounds comfortable playing the populist here.
CosmicAlfonzo
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2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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2/12/2011 12:46:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/11/2011 11:53:16 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
It's true and you know it.

At 15:20, he says we should "swear off the use of violence against our friends, neighbors, and other countries."

At 16:30: "government should never be able to do anything you can't do."

*pauses for thunderous applause*

"If you can't steal from your neighbor, you can't send the government to your neighbor to steal for you."

At 17:20 "What If I could, if I had the authority to do it, what if I could offer you and say 'look, we're not doing such a good job being government these days. We make promises and we don't know about the future. But would you consider opting out of the whole system, under one condition, you pay 10% of your income, but you take care of yourself. You don't ask the government for anything.'"

As a sidenote, it's a pretty kickass speech. Paul has been delivering polemics on monetary policy and whatnot for years, so I'm guessing that's why he always seemed a bit awkward at events like CPAC in the past. He sounds comfortable playing the populist here.

I'm watching it.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/12/2011 1:55:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Did no one see Mitch Daniels speech a few hours after Pauls? I'm tellin you hes gonna be the next republican candidate for president.
Also Ron Paul Gave a great speech.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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lewis20
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2/12/2011 1:56:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.

He's in the republican party because he stands for what they used to/are supposed to stand for.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/12/2011 9:14:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/11/2011 11:53:16 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
It's true and you know it.:

How do your quotes somehow equal him wanting no government whatsoever? Minarchists and anarchists obviously have a lot overlap, but it doesn't mean they are synonymous.

Wouldn't libertarians make the exact same kind of declarations?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Koopin
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2/12/2011 9:21:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 1:56:31 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.

He's in the republican party because he stands for what they used to/are supposed to stand for.

He's in it so the republicans will elect him. Anyway, lots of republicans do. Koopin sure does.
kfc
Danielle
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2/12/2011 9:31:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I highly doubt Ron Paul is an anarchist just because he made a few anarchist-friendly quotes. I'm sure there are quotes I can put up here from a democrat that will sound anarchist-ish. Off the top of my head - "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves" (Thomas Jefferson).

Ron Paul played a role in obtaining 22 earmarks worth $96.1 million according to the Houston Chronicle. Also Paul is very pro States rights. This means he's perfectly fine with criminalizing abortion, gay marriage, etc. if the people in that State want that and vote on it democratically. I don't think these things are very an-cap.
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Sieben
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2/12/2011 9:38:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 9:31:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I highly doubt Ron Paul is an anarchist just because he made a few anarchist-friendly quotes. I'm sure there are quotes I can put up here from a democrat that will sound anarchist-ish. Off the top of my head - "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves" (Thomas Jefferson).

TJ is the most libertarian friendly founding father... by his words at least.

Ron Paul played a role in obtaining 22 earmarks worth $96.1 million according to the Houston Chronicle. Also Paul is very pro States rights. This means he's perfectly fine with criminalizing abortion, gay marriage, etc. if the people in that State want that and vote on it democratically. I don't think these things are very an-cap.

So wait. I'm an anarcho capitalist. But if I were a congressman/president I wouldn't push for immediate ancap because i think its impractical. I'd push to break the federal government's monopoly on law because I believe that the best check on law is to get a system where people choose which law they're under. Would you fail to identify me as an ancap?
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/12/2011 9:44:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 9:31:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I highly doubt Ron Paul is an anarchist just because he made a few anarchist-friendly quotes. I'm sure there are quotes I can put up here from a democrat that will sound anarchist-ish. Off the top of my head - "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves" (Thomas Jefferson).:

That was pretty much point too. I think he's reading in to it way too far.

Ron Paul played a role in obtaining 22 earmarks worth $96.1 million according to the Houston Chronicle. Also Paul is very pro States rights. This means he's perfectly fine with criminalizing abortion, gay marriage, etc. if the people in that State want that and vote on it democratically. I don't think these things are very an-cap.:

Ron Paul's position is a one on literally every position, which bears zero relevance to anarchists which believe in no legality. So, I think you are very right. He even makes this evident during the usual witch hunt on The View.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/12/2011 9:52:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So wait. I'm an anarcho capitalist. But if I were a congressman/president I wouldn't push for immediate ancap because i think its impractical. I'd push to break the federal government's monopoly on law because I believe that the best check on law is to get a system where people choose which law they're under. Would you fail to identify me as an ancap?:

The issue is that there is no evidence to suggest that he's an anarchist, and immeasurable evidence that he's a Constitutionalist (which deals with what? Oh, yeah, the law). Like theLwerd stated, he's hugely States "right" (rights here being another operative word here to pay attention to).

Ron Paul is a libertarian. He's a minarchist. He's not an anarchist, because to be an anarchist is a very large leap. But I will grant that anarchism and minarchism have many parallels with one another, and I'm certainly delighted to have your support of Ron Paul. Even though we wouldn't philosophically agree on every point, I think an anarchist and a minarchist have more in common with one another than anyone else. Even still, they aren't synonymous.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
mongoose
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2/12/2011 12:39:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 9:31:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Ron Paul played a role in obtaining 22 earmarks worth $96.1 million according to the Houston Chronicle. Also Paul is very pro States rights. This means he's perfectly fine with criminalizing abortion, gay marriage, etc. if the people in that State want that and vote on it democratically. I don't think these things are very an-cap.

And then he voted against the final bill. You don't jump of the train until it stops moving.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Sieben
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2/12/2011 12:51:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 9:41:32 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:38:48 AM, Sieben wrote:
Would you fail to identify me as an ancap?
Would you pass stricter laws?

No. I would remove legal barriers to non-state law.
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Mirza
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2/12/2011 12:54:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 12:51:36 PM, Sieben wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:41:32 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:38:48 AM, Sieben wrote:
Would you fail to identify me as an ancap?
Would you pass stricter laws?

No. I would remove legal barriers to non-state law.
How can a person achieve anarchism by supporting stricter laws?
Sieben
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2/12/2011 1:06:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 12:54:17 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:51:36 PM, Sieben wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:41:32 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:38:48 AM, Sieben wrote:
Would you fail to identify me as an ancap?
Would you pass stricter laws?

No. I would remove legal barriers to non-state law.
How can a person achieve anarchism by supporting stricter laws?

You can have laws under anarchy. You just can't fund a legal system by threatening to attack people who dont participate in it.
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Mirza
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2/12/2011 1:36:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 1:06:02 PM, Sieben wrote:
You can have laws under anarchy.
That is not my point, but yes. That is the very good thing about anarchy, probably the best.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/12/2011 1:39:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 12:39:59 PM, mongoose wrote:
And then he voted against the final bill. You don't jump of the train until it stops moving.

Even worse. He puts earmarks into the bill and then votes against them. Since he is often the only nay vote, the earmarks go through.
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Danielle
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2/12/2011 1:44:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 9:38:48 AM, Sieben wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:31:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:
I highly doubt Ron Paul is an anarchist just because he made a few anarchist-friendly quotes. I'm sure there are quotes I can put up here from a democrat that will sound anarchist-ish. Off the top of my head - "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves" (Thomas Jefferson).

TJ is the most libertarian friendly founding father... by his words at least.

That doesn't change my point. If anything it strengthens the point that P-L and I have been trying to make: that just because Paul is a minarchist doesn't necessarily mean he's an anarchist. A lot of libertarian and anarchist positions overlap, obviously. TJ might be libertarian "friendly" but so what? Maybe Paul is just anarchist friendly.

So wait. I'm an anarcho capitalist. But if I were a congressman/president I wouldn't push for immediate ancap because i think its impractical. I'd push to break the federal government's monopoly on law because I believe that the best check on law is to get a system where people choose which law they're under. Would you fail to identify me as an ancap?

If you chose to act pragmatically despite your beliefs that'd be one thing. However you are a self-professed an-cap. Paul is not a self-professed an-cap. You're just assuming he is because he has some ideals similar to your own.
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Sieben
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2/12/2011 2:03:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 1:44:12 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:38:48 AM, Sieben wrote:
At 2/12/2011 9:31:00 AM, theLwerd wrote:

That doesn't change my point. If anything it strengthens the point that P-L and I have been trying to make: that just because Paul is a minarchist doesn't necessarily mean he's an anarchist. A lot of libertarian and anarchist positions overlap, obviously. TJ might be libertarian "friendly" but so what? Maybe Paul is just anarchist friendly.

What do you think it takes to be classified as an ancap?

If you chose to act pragmatically despite your beliefs that'd be one thing. However you are a self-professed an-cap. Paul is not a self-professed an-cap. You're just assuming he is because he has some ideals similar to your own.

It might be impractical for me to call myself an ancap. Maybe I'd do the same thing Paul does if I were in his position.

But I don't know if paul is ancap. I think he doesn't care.
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charleslb
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2/12/2011 4:19:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 1:56:31 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.

He's in the republican party because he stands for what they used to/are supposed to stand for.

Yeah, Ron Paul is a paleoconservative who back in the 90s wrote explicitly racist newsletters. Yes indeed, he certainly does stand for the core republican, conservative mentalité. Thanks for inadvertently outing said mentalité as the primal driving force behind the political stances of conservatives. For more on this mentalité I suggest that you read my posts on Reagan and Loughner.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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2/12/2011 4:22:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 4:19:57 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/12/2011 1:56:31 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.

He's in the republican party because he stands for what they used to/are supposed to stand for.

Yeah, Ron Paul is a paleoconservative who back in the 90s wrote explicitly racist newsletters. Yes indeed, he certainly does stand for the core republican, conservative mentalité. Thanks for inadvertently outing said mentalité as the primal driving force behind the political stances of conservatives. For more on this mentalité I suggest that you read my posts on Reagan and Loughner.

Oh yeah, Ron Paul is also a fav of the folks I call bullsh*t people, so you might also want to check my post on their mentalité as well.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
J.Kenyon
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2/12/2011 4:26:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 9:44:54 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Ron Paul's position is a one on literally every position, which bears zero relevance to anarchists which believe in no legality. So, I think you are very right. He even makes this evident during the usual witch hunt on The View.

Wait, wut?
J.Kenyon
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2/12/2011 4:29:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 4:19:57 PM, charleslb wrote:
Mentalité, mentalité mentalité mentalité mentalité. Mentalité mentalité mentalité, mentalité? Mentalité mentalité! Hah!

Use a thesaurus, ffs.
J.Kenyon
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2/12/2011 4:34:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, it's not like his CPAC speech is the only reason I think. He just recently had an anarchist (Thomas DiLorenzo) testify at one of his Fed hearings. He's brought plenty of other anarchists to testify before Congress as well, Thomas Woods comes to mind. It's hardly a one-off.

The Google Talks interview he did in 2008 was basically an hour and a half of Paul defending the anarchist position on everything from schools to environmental protection.
mongeese
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2/12/2011 4:39:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 4:19:57 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/12/2011 1:56:31 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.

He's in the republican party because he stands for what they used to/are supposed to stand for.

Yeah, Ron Paul is a paleoconservative who back in the 90s wrote explicitly racist newsletters.

Source?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/12/2011 4:40:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, Ron Paul is a paleoconservative who back in the 90s wrote explicitly racist newsletters. Yes indeed, he certainly does stand for the core republican, conservative mentalité.:

Oh, did he? As usual, you're wrong.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Mirza
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2/12/2011 4:41:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 4:39:25 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 2/12/2011 4:19:57 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 2/12/2011 1:56:31 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:34:53 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Dude, no sh!t. Libertarians are closet anarchists.

Ron Paul is libertarian, he is only in the republican party because no one outside the two parties has a chance at winning.

He's in the republican party because he stands for what they used to/are supposed to stand for.

Yeah, Ron Paul is a paleoconservative who back in the 90s wrote explicitly racist newsletters.

Source?
It is most probably slander.
mongeese
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2/12/2011 4:42:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/12/2011 1:39:02 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 2/12/2011 12:39:59 PM, mongoose wrote:
And then he voted against the final bill. You don't jump of the train until it stops moving.

Even worse. He puts earmarks into the bill and then votes against them. Since he is often the only nay vote, the earmarks go through.

I really don't get this. A bill that takes money from all states and puts it into some states can't be better than a bill that takes money from all states and puts it into all states. Paul made the bill fairer, although he had to do it in the unfavorable direction of adding to the stimulus, instead of taking away a bunch from it like he'd prefer. But if his state is going to pay, his state ought to receive, as well.