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Abortion is wrong ?

interrogator
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3/7/2011 1:24:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Because it is wrong to kill and unborn child. Regardless of whether you are
religious or not. To do this horrible act is murder. But what do you
think about this you guys. Is abortion wrong ? And should it be outlawed.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/7/2011 1:25:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm personally against it(except in cases of rape, etc.), but more so on the grounds that people need to learn to accept personal responsibility.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,199
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3/7/2011 1:28:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 1:24:13 PM, interrogator wrote:
Because it is wrong to kill and unborn child. Regardless of whether you are
religious or not. To do this horrible act is murder. But what do you
think about this you guys. Is abortion wrong ? And should it be outlawed.

Abortion is our sole existence and meaning. We all sin when we prevent abortions, this is unavoidable. We must try to remove this sin and become closer to God.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/7/2011 1:31:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Abortion is not wrong.

Abortion is not immoral.

A woman can choose her own procedures, and does not need the government or other people dictating what she can or cannot do.

I am Pro-Choice.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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3/7/2011 1:48:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Abortion is murder... however I won't debate this because my position is mostly emotive.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
darkkermit
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3/7/2011 1:53:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 1:48:44 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Abortion is murder... however I won't debate this because my position is mostly emotive.

moral issues tend to be emotive based.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/7/2011 1:59:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 1:53:15 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/7/2011 1:48:44 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Abortion is murder... however I won't debate this because my position is mostly emotive.

moral issues tend to be emotive based.

I can extrapolate it into some sort of 'social contract' and self-interest angle but ultimately it is weak and moralistic. I am personally disgusted by abortion, that does not stand up to critical assault.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/7/2011 2:20:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think abortion is a topic that I'm very open to suggestion about, as I see validity in both sides of the argument. I, however, don't personally like anything about abortion, and I think 9 our of 10 times it's used as a crutch. That said, I see no way of legally stopping it without violating someone's civil rights.
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tvellalott
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3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.
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InsertNameHere
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3/7/2011 2:38:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.

You'd think that even pro-choice people would be against late term, since in that case it would literally be murder, considering the fetus could feel it, having a developed nervous system.
annhasle
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3/7/2011 2:39:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:38:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.

You'd think that even pro-choice people would be against late term, since in that case it would literally be murder, considering the fetus could feel it, having a developed nervous system.

I've always been unsure about late term abortions. Even though there is nothing wrong with it, it does violate NAP which I support (for non-ethical reasons).
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/7/2011 2:39:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At which point do we draw the line? If we can abort at say six months, where it is potentially capable of independent life, why can't parents kill off their newborns?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
annhasle
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3/7/2011 2:42:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:39:42 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At which point do we draw the line?

I say, if the baby can survive by itself outside the womb -- then it should be protected from being killed.

If we can abort at say six months, where it is potentially capable of independent life, why can't parents kill off their newborns?

At that point, I'm still unsure.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
popculturepooka
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3/7/2011 3:21:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:42:32 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:39:42 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At which point do we draw the line?

I say, if the baby can survive by itself outside the womb -- then it should be protected from being killed.


But that is an incredibly arbitrary place to draw the line at. Like I've said before viability differs according to the progression of medical technology and even according to gender or race - so why should that be used as a standard?
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popculturepooka
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3/7/2011 3:23:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:38:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.

You'd think that even pro-choice people would be against late term, since in that case it would literally be murder, considering the fetus could feel it, having a developed nervous system.

Something being murder or not is not predicated on whether the victim can feel it or not.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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3/7/2011 9:13:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 1:24:13 PM, interrogator wrote:
Because it is wrong to kill and unborn child. Regardless of whether you are
religious or not. To do this horrible act is murder. But what do you
think about this you guys. Is abortion wrong ? And should it be outlawed.

No. A woman has a right to her body. No one has emotional ties to the child where as people do to the mother. The child will likely not live a good life if the mother didn't want it. The mother could be seriously hurt by the pregnancy mentally and physically.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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3/7/2011 10:02:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Abortion is not really about whether or not it's ok to kill fetuses. This is a tangential issue used by pro-life advocates to shift the focus onto emotionally charged questions and circumstances.

The state already has the power to legally and morally abort human lives no matter how old they are (its called capital punishment).

Abortion is about whether or not unborn fetuses should be granted all the rights and privileges of every other citizen and the biggest stumbling block to this is that there isn't any way to ensure those rights without simultaneously denying the rights of its mother.

And as far as artificially maintaining the life of a fetus apart from its mother goes, it isn't science or medicine that's the problem - its money. It seems that, for all the noise pro-lifers make about not wanting unborn babies to die, none of them are willing the spend anything on keeping them alive, let alone bear the costs of caring, feeding, housing and educating these children for 18 plus years.
annhasle
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3/8/2011 12:03:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 3:21:29 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:42:32 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:39:42 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At which point do we draw the line?

I say, if the baby can survive by itself outside the womb -- then it should be protected from being killed.

But that is an incredibly arbitrary place to draw the line at. Like I've said before viability differs according to the progression of medical technology and even according to gender or race - so why should that be used as a standard?

Are you saying that the doctors are incapable of determining if the child can live independently from its mother?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Reasoning
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3/8/2011 12:05:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:42:32 PM, annhasle wrote:
I say, if the baby can survive by itself outside the womb -- then it should be protected from being killed.

Why? Whom will do the protecting? Why should they care?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
annhasle
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3/8/2011 12:10:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 12:05:05 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:42:32 PM, annhasle wrote:
I say, if the baby can survive by itself outside the womb -- then it should be protected from being killed.

Why? Whom will do the protecting? Why should they care?

They don't have to, this is not an ethical assertion. Personally, I find murder unappealing and would rather a peaceful alternative or at least one which avoids killing the baby. At the point where it can survive independently, I cannot see why the mother would not give birth and then put it up for adoption. I meant to put "in my opinion" so it wouldn't be taken as an absolute statement of what they must do. I simply prefer it.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
JustCallMeTarzan
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3/8/2011 12:26:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 1:24:13 PM, interrogator wrote:
Because it is wrong to kill and unborn child. Regardless of whether you are
religious or not. To do this horrible act is murder. But what do you
think about this you guys. Is abortion wrong ? And should it be outlawed.

How can it be wrong to disassemble a non-person that has never been alive?
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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3/8/2011 12:26:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 1:31:15 PM, annhasle wrote:
Abortion is not wrong.

Abortion is not immoral.

A woman can choose her own procedures, and does not need the government or other people dictating what she can or cannot do.

I am Pro-Choice.

abortion is wrong because it deprives the right of life from humans with a 99.99% chance of becoming human if they are born.
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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/8/2011 12:28:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 12:26:49 AM, askbob wrote:
At 3/7/2011 1:31:15 PM, annhasle wrote:
Abortion is not wrong.

Abortion is not immoral.

A woman can choose her own procedures, and does not need the government or other people dictating what she can or cannot do.

I am Pro-Choice.

abortion is wrong because it deprives the right of life from humans with a 99.99% chance of becoming human if they are born.

That denial of life is wrong because...?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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3/8/2011 12:34:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 12:28:57 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/8/2011 12:26:49 AM, askbob wrote:
At 3/7/2011 1:31:15 PM, annhasle wrote:
Abortion is not wrong.

Abortion is not immoral.

A woman can choose her own procedures, and does not need the government or other people dictating what she can or cannot do.

I am Pro-Choice.

abortion is wrong because it deprives the right of life from humans with a 99.99% chance of becoming human if they are born.

That denial of life is wrong because...?

In the same reasoning that slaughtering the homeless because they require financial assistance is wrong
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
CosmicAlfonzo
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3/8/2011 12:35:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why is this in the religion forum?

On that note, babies are tasty. They are also shapeless bags of hedonistic fat that are only good for sh!tting everywhere and crying.

I fvcking hate babies. They are fvcking retarded. An unborn fetus can't possibly be any less retarded.

Kids are far more interesting and even fun once they can hold a conversation. Maybe pre-school age and up? Kids can be funny... Especially when they are at the age to where they are at least able to wipe their own @sses.
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lovelife
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3/8/2011 12:37:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was largely undecided on the issue until I had a one on one chat with a pro-lifer (I tend to avoid the labels because most of the time, they are loaded, but he was ACTUALLY pro-life and not just anti-abortion.)

Now I am pro-choice (again I tend to avoid the labels, but this is a case of its not just pro-abortion rights)

His points was that if a fetus has individual human DNA, it is a living human being, and it is considered murder in all ways except semantic (as in avoiding the "illegal" part of the definition), just as if it was legal to kill black people others may call it murder.

I thought about it for days, and came to my own conclusion.

Parents, especially mothers, tend to choose for their children, all the time, and usually for their own good, or based on what they can provide.
A mother might make her child eat vegetables with every meal, may disallow dessert on most/all days, or may teach their children to eat in a vegetarian way, to better the child's life or well being and the government doesn't get involved.
The parents choose what clothes the child is allowed to wear, and whether their son is allowed to wear girly clothes he wants to.
Parents teach their children their religion and culture.
Parents hover over their children and watch their every move, other parents don't.
Some parents ban drinking, sex, etc, others provide a place for their children to experiment, without risking things such as intoxicated driving.

All of these things are (mostly) legal, and things parents choose all the time for their children.

It also occurred to me that I am pro-euthanasia, meaning if someone wishes, or would be better off dead, I allow for them to be "put to sleep".
It also reminds me of how I view young children no differently than a house pet.
All the time people choose for them too, such as what food they can eat, how often they go outside, force them to wear collars, and ultimately to be put down or not.

Then because each person is different, each situation is different, I am all for allowing parents to choose to have an abortion or not.
If someone has AIDS, and doesn't want their children to suffer for up to 10 years before dying, maybe without knowing their parents at all, or being orphaned, they should have the right to be able to choose a more ethical way, and stop the suffering before it begins.
If someone is in severe poverty and cannot keep a home, they shouldn't have to keep a child.
If someone is going to die soon (say cancer, or a heart issue) and/or the father will be absent, they should have the right to choose to have an abortion.
If someone is a heavy smoker, drug user, alcoholic, and believes the child would be deformed and miserable, they should have a right to choose abortion.
If someone feels that they cannot care for a child, emotionally, physically, financially, spiritually, etc, and believes that adoption would increase the suffering of the child, they should have the right to choose to have an abortion.

Not saying its always the right choice, but as parents its your duty to try to make the best possible choices for your children, even if that choice is one that involves killing it.

Now of course once the child is born, and even for a while before that, the parents have had ample time to choose abortion, and thus loose control over that part of the child's life, in much the same way that parents can't legally force the child to stay at their house after they are 18 (age varies by location)

So abortion may be wrong in some cases, but not all.

(Btw, me and my bf are both pro-choice, but neither of us would choose abortion anyway. [/end personal note])
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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3/8/2011 12:38:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/7/2011 2:38:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.

You'd think that even pro-choice people would be against late term, since in that case it would literally be murder, considering the fetus could feel it, having a developed nervous system.

I'm against late term still too btw
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
InsertNameHere
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3/8/2011 12:41:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 12:38:39 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:38:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.

You'd think that even pro-choice people would be against late term, since in that case it would literally be murder, considering the fetus could feel it, having a developed nervous system.

I'm against late term still too btw

Yea, late term seems cruel imo.
lovelife
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3/8/2011 12:43:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 12:41:11 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/8/2011 12:38:39 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:38:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/7/2011 2:28:46 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against late term abortions, but I'm totally with ann on this.

You'd think that even pro-choice people would be against late term, since in that case it would literally be murder, considering the fetus could feel it, having a developed nervous system.

I'm against late term still too btw

Yea, late term seems cruel imo.

Parents have plenty of time to think and talk it through, get a few risk free weeks or so for having sex, etc, they don't need to wait until it can live on its own. At that point it would likely be better off adopted out or something.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave