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God and Sacrifice

vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/15/2011 5:23:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why did the god of the Bible (Yahweh) want animals and people to be sacrificed.
Is it because he enjoyed the suffering of the victims or is it that he enjoyed the suffering of the people making the sacrifice? Or is it, as the Bible suggests, because he liked the smell.
I'm looking forward everyone's answers.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/15/2011 5:34:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Because the priests needed food to eat, and how else were they going to convince people to give them free food?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/15/2011 5:38:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 5:23:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Why did the god of the Bible (Yahweh) want animals and people to be sacrificed.
Is it because he enjoyed the suffering of the victims or is it that he enjoyed the suffering of the people making the sacrifice? Or is it, as the Bible suggests, because he liked the smell.
I'm looking forward everyone's answers.

Penal substitution.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/15/2011 5:45:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Blood goes well with first born lamb.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/15/2011 5:48:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't know where this human sacrifice crap comes from, but seriously, that was the point of the ancient Jewish church accepting animal sacrifice. To feed the clergy.

Of this, I'm fairly certain.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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3/15/2011 6:26:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 5:48:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't know where this human sacrifice crap comes from, but seriously, that was the point of the ancient Jewish church accepting animal sacrifice. To feed the clergy.

Of this, I'm fairly certain.

The logical evolution of animal sacrifice is this!

http://en.wikipedia.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/15/2011 7:05:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 5:48:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't know where this human sacrifice crap comes from, but seriously, that was the point of the ancient Jewish church accepting animal sacrifice. To feed the clergy.

Of this, I'm fairly certain.

That's not what Jewish doctrine says. It says that God liked the "sweet savor" of animal sacrifice. Also, if the animal was for God to eat, you really think the priests could get away with stealing food from God and not be condemned?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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3/15/2011 7:47:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 5:23:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Why did the god of the Bible (Yahweh) want animals and people to be sacrificed.
Is it because he enjoyed the suffering of the victims or is it that he enjoyed the suffering of the people making the sacrifice? Or is it, as the Bible suggests, because he liked the smell.
I'm looking forward everyone's answers.

I believe it is numbers that describes in great detail how to sacrifice animals, but more importantly how to burn them, because they are a "Sweet savor unto the Lord..."

I.e. - he likes the smell...
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/15/2011 9:16:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Grey Parrot is closest, atonement is the official reason... but you all are terrible at reading between the lines.

To the early Jews, the church was the state. The sacrifices were basically a tax so that the priestly class could live comfortably. If they didn't make up bullsh!t about that crap pleasing the lord, do you think that the people would have easily given up their foodstuffs?

Yeah, god really gives a sh!t about the burning flesh of animals.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/15/2011 9:30:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Makes the whole process look more legitimate.

Plus, rituals are good for moral of stupid people.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/15/2011 9:30:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I mean, people who are into that thing.

*looks around shiftily*
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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3/15/2011 10:41:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 5:23:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:

Why did the god of the Bible (Yahweh) want animals and people to be sacrificed.

It comes from original sin, they would be presented as atonement. After Jesus was self-sacrificed then animal sacrifice was replaced by the notion of self-sacrifice (not physical) which you can still see today in Christians who make offering of self-denial, to do without. It is argued by Dennet and others that this movement towards non-physical self-sacrifice was intentionally created by people in the Christian movement to separate it and elevate it above the other Religions which were (as was common) focused on animal offerings.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/16/2011 5:34:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 5:23:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Why did the god of the Bible (Yahweh) want animals and people to be sacrificed.
Is it because he enjoyed the suffering of the victims or is it that he enjoyed the suffering of the people making the sacrifice? Or is it, as the Bible suggests, because he liked the smell.
I'm looking forward everyone's answers.

As there were no supermarkets in those days, animals were a very precious personal commodity, so to willfully sacrifice something so expensive was an act of faith; that the Lord would continue to provide..

It was, in short, a REAL sacrifice.
The Cross.. the Cross.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2011 5:41:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 5:34:54 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/15/2011 5:23:36 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Why did the god of the Bible (Yahweh) want animals and people to be sacrificed.
Is it because he enjoyed the suffering of the victims or is it that he enjoyed the suffering of the people making the sacrifice? Or is it, as the Bible suggests, because he liked the smell.
I'm looking forward everyone's answers.

As there were no supermarkets in those days, animals were a very precious personal commodity, so to willfully sacrifice something so expensive was an act of faith; that the Lord would continue to provide..

It was, in short, a REAL sacrifice.

"But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -- Leviticus 1:9
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/16/2011 5:42:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 5:41:40 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -- Leviticus 1:9

I think God was just hungry.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/16/2011 5:56:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 5:42:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:41:40 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -- Leviticus 1:9

I think God was just hungry.

No, the Lord savours REAL sacrifice.. the word 'savours' is used so we get a human perspective that it is more than pleasing to God..

BUT we must remember that these sacrifices were for a specific people at a specific time.
The Cross.. the Cross.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/16/2011 10:49:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 5:56:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:42:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:41:40 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -- Leviticus 1:9

I think God was just hungry.

No, the Lord savours REAL sacrifice.. the word 'savours' is used so we get a human perspective that it is more than pleasing to God..

BUT we must remember that these sacrifices were for a specific people at a specific time.

Hungry people.

I always imagined these people dumping all their 'offerings' on a pile and lighting it on fire and thought that the 'aroma was pleasing to the lord' stuff was an oddity. But looking over Geo's Leviticus passage, perhaps these were just elaborate BBQs for the priests. I wonder, since human and animal sacrifice seems to be a universal amoung primitives, whether or not all "offerings" in all cultures were ultimately motivated toward this end.

My other theory, for what it's worth, was that the primitives reasoned that since their lives were so full of suffering their gods must enjoy human and animal suffering, so in order no appease them they would willingly cause themselve or something else pain.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/16/2011 10:52:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 10:49:46 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:56:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:42:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:41:40 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -- Leviticus 1:9

I think God was just hungry.

No, the Lord savours REAL sacrifice.. the word 'savours' is used so we get a human perspective that it is more than pleasing to God..

BUT we must remember that these sacrifices were for a specific people at a specific time.

Hungry people.

I always imagined these people dumping all their 'offerings' on a pile and lighting it on fire and thought that the 'aroma was pleasing to the lord' stuff was an oddity. But looking over Geo's Leviticus passage, perhaps these were just elaborate BBQs for the priests. I wonder, since human and animal sacrifice seems to be a universal amoung primitives, whether or not all "offerings" in all cultures were ultimately motivated toward this end.

Yeah man, that's what I'm saying. It's an elaborate bbq for the priests.

My other theory, for what it's worth, was that the primitives reasoned that since their lives were so full of suffering their gods must enjoy human and animal suffering, so in order no appease them they would willingly cause themselve or something else pain.

I'm sure most of the people who were doing the sacrifices thought like that.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/17/2011 6:27:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 10:49:46 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:56:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:42:10 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/16/2011 5:41:40 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD." -- Leviticus 1:9

I think God was just hungry.

No, the Lord savours REAL sacrifice.. the word 'savours' is used so we get a human perspective that it is more than pleasing to God..

BUT we must remember that these sacrifices were for a specific people at a specific time.

Hungry people.

I always imagined these people dumping all their 'offerings' on a pile and lighting it on fire and thought that the 'aroma was pleasing to the lord' stuff was an oddity. But looking over Geo's Leviticus passage, perhaps these were just elaborate BBQs for the priests. I wonder, since human and animal sacrifice seems to be a universal amoung primitives, whether or not all "offerings" in all cultures were ultimately motivated toward this end.

My other theory, for what it's worth, was that the primitives reasoned that since their lives were so full of suffering their gods must enjoy human and animal suffering, so in order no appease them they would willingly cause themselve or something else pain.

It is God's mercy to a spiritually dead people; He allows them physical sacrifices and He accepts them spiritually..
The Cross.. the Cross.