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Doubting Thomas

tvellalott
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3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?
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Thaddeus
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3/17/2011 5:28:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think theres the bit after it, which people quote. (rough paraphrase) "dude you didn't believe even though you had craploads of evidence. How much more rad are the people who don't see me strut my funky stuff yet still believe. Gnarly"
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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3/17/2011 5:30:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

That is just Christianity telling people to have blind faith. Not a good thing.
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 5:33:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:30:37 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

That is just Christianity telling people to have blind faith. Not a good thing.

I know, what I'm saying is if one of Jesus frikkin' Apostles doubted the resurrection after seeing him walk on water and turn bread into cheese and stuff... I forgot where I was going with this.

Oh yeah:
Isaiah 1:18-
""Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool."
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Dan4reason
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3/17/2011 5:35:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:33:45 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:30:37 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

That is just Christianity telling people to have blind faith. Not a good thing.

I know, what I'm saying is if one of Jesus frikkin' Apostles doubted the resurrection after seeing him walk on water and turn bread into cheese and stuff... I forgot where I was going with this.

Oh yeah:
Isaiah 1:18-
""Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool."

You see I think all the miracle stuff were just legends. I see the doubting Thomas story as an invented myth to tell Christians to have faith.
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 5:37:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:35:00 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
You see I think all the miracle stuff were just legends. I see the doubting Thomas story as an invented myth to tell Christians to have faith.

I'm with you; in a few hundred years (hopefully) Christianity and Islam will be seen and obsolete mythology, like all the rest. Antiquities of the evolution of philosophy.
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Cliff.Stamp
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3/17/2011 5:42:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:28:42 PM, Thaddeus wrote:

"dude you didn't believe even though you had craploads of evidence. How much more rad are the people who don't see me strut my funky stuff yet still believe. Gnarly"

I would have actually attended sunday school if they were reading from that book.
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 5:43:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:42:11 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:28:42 PM, Thaddeus wrote:

"dude you didn't believe even though you had craploads of evidence. How much more rad are the people who don't see me strut my funky stuff yet still believe. Gnarly"

I would have actually attended sunday school if they were reading from that book.

The Dudeacious translation is pretty awesome.
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Dan4reason
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3/17/2011 5:48:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:37:07 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:35:00 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
You see I think all the miracle stuff were just legends. I see the doubting Thomas story as an invented myth to tell Christians to have faith.

I'm with you; in a few hundred years (hopefully) Christianity and Islam will be seen and obsolete mythology, like all the rest. Antiquities of the evolution of philosophy.

I dunno. With all this mass communication they may stick around for a while. Hopefully they will go away after a while although I think they will just be replaced with yet other religions. Let us hope that future myths are more tolerant than what we got..
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/17/2011 6:50:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

yeah.. your questions are all stupid though.. what does that tell you?
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/17/2011 6:55:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 6:50:44 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

yeah.. your questions are all stupid though.. what does that tell you?

That you wouldn't know a smart question if it slapped you in the face? :)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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3/17/2011 7:01:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

*facepalm*
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/17/2011 7:03:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 6:55:42 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:50:44 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

yeah.. your questions are all stupid though.. what does that tell you?

That you wouldn't know a smart question if it slapped you in the face? :)

i left you that cop out :P ...cos i like you :)
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badger
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3/17/2011 7:04:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 7:03:24 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:55:42 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:50:44 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

yeah.. your questions are all stupid though.. what does that tell you?

That you wouldn't know a smart question if it slapped you in the face? :)

i left you that cop out :P ...cos i like you :)

couldn't spare you the reply though...
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/17/2011 7:08:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 7:03:24 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:55:42 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:50:44 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

yeah.. your questions are all stupid though.. what does that tell you?

That you wouldn't know a smart question if it slapped you in the face? :)

i left you that cop out :P ...cos i like you :)

Well, good thing you went easy on me. :P
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/17/2011 7:09:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 7:08:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 7:03:24 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:55:42 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:50:44 PM, badger wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).


Okay.

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

yeah.. your questions are all stupid though.. what does that tell you?

That you wouldn't know a smart question if it slapped you in the face? :)

i left you that cop out :P ...cos i like you :)

Well, good thing you went easy on me. :P

indeed. wouldn't want you running away again like last time. what would that achieve? :P
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popculturepooka
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3/17/2011 7:09:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 7:01:33 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

*facepalm*

Meh, I know where you're going with this and I'd rather not type out a treatise so I just gave you the short schrift of it. :)
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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3/17/2011 7:11:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 7:09:12 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 7:01:33 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 6:34:41 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

Because I think you're wrong?

*facepalm*

Meh, I know where you're going with this and I'd rather not type out a treatise so I just gave you the short schrift of it. :)

I am disappoint.
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Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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3/17/2011 8:57:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:24:37 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Thomas the Apostle doubted the resurrection of Jesus, the single most important event in all of Christianity, until he actually saw the wounds (ie. evidence).

How can anyone question the position of Atheists if they believe this story to be true?

I am not certain I understand the question.

I will attempt a discussion point though.

We do not blame Atheists for their positions, most Christians were not Christians before "experiencing" Christianity.

We agree with you that based upon what you know that your deduction is sound and reasonable. (Though this does not stand for all Atheists)

What we are saying is the same as the other people in the room.... that is to say, "Thomas we saw Jesus and He is back from the dead".

Do you see the difference? The others did meet Jesus and were telling Thomas about it.
- As a topical note, there have been Christians that have believed on merely the testimony of other Christians and on the Testimony of the Bible and they are especially blessed.

...but you can also experience God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

That is a claim of the Bible. That is the point, the disciples met Jesus, Paul met Jesus and you can too.
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 9:04:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Allow me to elaborate:

Thomas was one of the apostles.
He doubted the resurrection without proof.
Jesus showed him the mortal wounds he had suffered.

2000 years pass.
I doubt the resurrection without proof.
Jesus shows me nothing.
I continue to doubt the resurrection.
Problem, Christians?
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Cliff.Stamp
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3/17/2011 9:09:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:04:00 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Problem, Christians?

Thomas was criticized for not having faith, the proper example is the other apostles - that is the point of scripture. You may as well argue that since Judas betrayed Jesus then you would as well and then note "Problem, Christians?".
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 9:13:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:09:34 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:04:00 PM, tvellalott wrote:

Problem, Christians?

Thomas was criticized for not having faith, the proper example is the other apostles - that is the point of scripture.

*sigh* I am aware of that.

You may as well argue that since Judas betrayed Jesus then you would as well and then note "Problem, Christians?".

I certainly would; silver is very valuable!
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Gileandos
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3/17/2011 9:16:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:04:00 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Allow me to elaborate:

Thomas was one of the apostles.
He doubted the resurrection without proof.
Jesus showed him the mortal wounds he had suffered.

2000 years pass.
I doubt the resurrection without proof.
Jesus shows me nothing.
I continue to doubt the resurrection.
Problem, Christians?

Well may I recommend an approach that may net you a meeting with the King of Universe?
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 9:18:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:16:11 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:04:00 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Allow me to elaborate:

Thomas was one of the apostles.
He doubted the resurrection without proof.
Jesus showed him the mortal wounds he had suffered.

2000 years pass.
I doubt the resurrection without proof.
Jesus shows me nothing.
I continue to doubt the resurrection.
Problem, Christians?

Well may I recommend an approach that may net you a meeting with the King of Universe?

I don't want to try acid; I've heard to many horror stories.
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Gileandos
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3/17/2011 9:23:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:18:15 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:16:11 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:04:00 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Allow me to elaborate:

Thomas was one of the apostles.
He doubted the resurrection without proof.
Jesus showed him the mortal wounds he had suffered.

2000 years pass.
I doubt the resurrection without proof.
Jesus shows me nothing.
I continue to doubt the resurrection.
Problem, Christians?

Well may I recommend an approach that may net you a meeting with the King of Universe?

I don't want to try acid; I've heard to many horror stories.

That key word would be humilty,
- if you were at the gate of the white house with an armed rifle demanding you be "satisfied"...
how do you think that satisfaction will come about?

Good news is... that God was patient with me before I became a Christian.

A new approach when an old one is not working is quite reasonable to attempt and a person who really wants to know the "Truth" will seek it. Do not expect God to come to you in a way different than He already has... next step is on you.

and the bible is against pharmacai :)
tvellalott
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3/17/2011 9:32:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:23:20 PM, Gileandos wrote:
That key word would be humilty,
Humility is weakness.

- if you were at the gate of the white house with an armed rifle demanding you be "satisfied"...
how do you think that satisfaction will come about?
It would come in the form of secret service agents shooting me with sub-machine guns.

Good news is... that God was patient with me before I became a Christian.
How old were you when you become a Christian?
What were you prior to becoming a Christian?
What happened that made you become a Christian?

A new approach when an old one is not working is quite reasonable to attempt and a person who really wants to know the "Truth" will seek it.
I like to think I'm seeking it. I read the Bible from time to time. It's an excellent story and shows a wonderfully constructed mythology.

Unfortunately, unlike certain individuals who shall not be named, I can't justify having to study the history of the region where one part was written or having to ponder the meaning of a certain metaphor in order to not see it as a highly flawed document, rather than the word of God.

Do not expect God to come to you in a way different than He already has... next step is on you.
He hasn't come to me. He won't come to me. I reject the holy spirit.

and the bible is against pharmacai :)
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Gileandos
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3/17/2011 10:21:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 9:32:21 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:23:20 PM, Gileandos wrote:
That key word would be humilty,
Humility is weakness.
Not if you are actually the one on the bottom,i.e. small child, prisoner, peasant...
then it is wisdom...


- if you were at the gate of the white house with an armed rifle demanding you be "satisfied"...
how do you think that satisfaction will come about?
It would come in the form of secret service agents shooting me with sub-machine guns.

lol got it in one!


Good news is... that God was patient with me before I became a Christian.
How old were you when you become a Christian?
What were you prior to becoming a Christian?
What happened that made you become a Christian?

I was 23. I was "enjoying" my sins and had no need for God, I was a selfish Hedonist. I didn't know anything about Jesus.
I encountered an evangelist. He made sense and explained things that could not have been explained. I accepted God's first form of communication and then pursued more information. Eventually through a humble spirit God called me His Friend and then told me my new name.

A new approach when an old one is not working is quite reasonable to attempt and a person who really wants to know the "Truth" will seek it.
I like to think I'm seeking it. I read the Bible from time to time. It's an excellent story and shows a wonderfully constructed mythology.

Unfortunately, unlike certain individuals who shall not be named, I can't justify having to study the history of the region where one part was written or having to ponder the meaning of a certain metaphor in order to not see it as a highly flawed document, rather than the word of God.

I believe you are. Everytime you draw near to God, He will draw near to you. Be open to the way He wants to have the discussion and you will be very surprised. I was.

Do not expect God to come to you in a way different than He already has... next step is on you.
He hasn't come to me. He won't come to me. I reject the holy spirit.


As I said He was patient with me even though I continued to reject Him and His Spirit.
socialpinko
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3/17/2011 10:37:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 10:21:34 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:32:21 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 3/17/2011 9:23:20 PM, Gileandos wrote:
That key word would be humilty,
Humility is weakness.
Not if you are actually the one on the bottom,i.e. small child, prisoner, peasant...
then it is wisdom...


- if you were at the gate of the white house with an armed rifle demanding you be "satisfied"...
how do you think that satisfaction will come about?
It would come in the form of secret service agents shooting me with sub-machine guns.

lol got it in one!


Good news is... that God was patient with me before I became a Christian.
How old were you when you become a Christian?
What were you prior to becoming a Christian?
What happened that made you become a Christian?

I was 23. I was "enjoying" my sins and had no need for God, I was a selfish Hedonist. I didn't know anything about Jesus.
I encountered an evangelist. He made sense and explained things that could not have been explained. I accepted God's first form of communication and then pursued more information. Eventually through a humble spirit God called me His Friend and then told me my new name.


A new approach when an old one is not working is quite reasonable to attempt and a person who really wants to know the "Truth" will seek it.
I like to think I'm seeking it. I read the Bible from time to time. It's an excellent story and shows a wonderfully constructed mythology.

Unfortunately, unlike certain individuals who shall not be named, I can't justify having to study the history of the region where one part was written or having to ponder the meaning of a certain metaphor in order to not see it as a highly flawed document, rather than the word of God.

I believe you are. Everytime you draw near to God, He will draw near to you. Be open to the way He wants to have the discussion and you will be very surprised. I was.

Do not expect God to come to you in a way different than He already has... next step is on you.
He hasn't come to me. He won't come to me. I reject the holy spirit.


As I said He was patient with me even though I continued to reject Him and His Spirit.

Isn't god omniscient? That is, he knows everything. Then wouldn't he certainly know exactly what it would take for any atheist or agnostic or nontheist to believe in him? Doesn't he already know that certain people will not accept his existence based on the faulty evidence that has been presented?

Many, me including, will die atheists if the evidence doesn't shift in god's favor and he certainly knows this. So why are we going to hell because god is either too lazy or stubborn to show some actual evidence of his existence?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
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tvellalott
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3/17/2011 10:42:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 10:37:18 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Isn't god omniscient? That is, he knows everything. Then wouldn't he certainly know exactly what it would take for any atheist or agnostic or nontheist to believe in him? Doesn't he already know that certain people will not accept his existence based on the faulty evidence that has been presented?

Many, me including, will die atheists if the evidence doesn't shift in god's favor and he certainly knows this. So why are we going to hell because god is either too lazy or stubborn to show some actual evidence of his existence?

INB4 Free Will.
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