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Faith not knowledge??

THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.
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vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

What did you perceive to be his theories by the way.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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Ore_Ele
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3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 5:06:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well most of the class is Christian and its an honors coarse so we cant be that idiotic. He thinks there is a god but says that the christian god is not all loveing and forgiving rather the opposite because of the sin and being damed to hell because of it.
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JustCallMeTarzan
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3/18/2011 5:15:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Faith is sometimes used to "block" knowledge, or at least it sometimes has that effect. The fact of the matter is that if you have faith about X, you cannot have knowledge about X, or you cease to have faith.

Faith by definition requires a lack of knowledge, but it's not really a problem so long as the person with faith recognizes that they do not have knowledge.

The problem is when people confuse faith with knowledge... i.e. I have faith that God exists, therefore I know God exists. Thosepeople are stupid.
vbaculum
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3/18/2011 5:24:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:06:48 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
Well most of the class is Christian and its an honors coarse so we cant be that idiotic. He thinks there is a god but says that the christian god is not all loveing and forgiving rather the opposite because of the sin and being damed to hell because of it.

What do you make of an entity that allows an eternal torture chamber to exists? Not evil?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 5:24:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"The problem is when people confuse faith with knowledge... i.e. I have faith that God exists, therefore I know God exists. Thosepeople are stupid."

So you are calling me stupid?? You don't have the slightest idea of what I am capable of doing. God does exist read the bible and look back in history it shows that god does exist. You are using your knowledge as a wall to having faith.
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vbaculum
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3/18/2011 5:28:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).

Does faith have any useful purpose that is not psychological (consolation, etc...)?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 5:31:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and all god want in return is love and if you sin you repent or go to hell. You may be thinking if God loves us than why send people to hell?? The individual I was speaking of also purposed that satin is actually the ritous one and that god is evil
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Ore_Ele
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3/18/2011 5:37:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:28:07 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).

Does faith have any useful purpose that is not psychological (consolation, etc...)?

In and of itself? No. But that goes for a lot of things.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/18/2011 5:45:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:31:41 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
I believe that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and all god want in return is love and if you sin you repent or go to hell. You may be thinking if God loves us than why send people to hell?? The individual I was speaking of also purposed that satin is actually the ritous one and that god is evil

So you are on the side of the guy that wants you to love him or he will torture you forever? Good choice; I would be too. Good thing there's not a bit of evidence for any of this. That's to say: Good thing it's based on faith.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 5:48:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe faith and knowledge are both equal and that faith or no faith we all posses it.
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Ore_Ele
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3/18/2011 5:51:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:45:19 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:31:41 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
I believe that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and all god want in return is love and if you sin you repent or go to hell. You may be thinking if God loves us than why send people to hell?? The individual I was speaking of also purposed that satin is actually the ritous one and that god is evil

So you are on the side of the guy that wants you to love him or he will torture you forever? Good choice; I would be too. Good thing there's not a bit of evidence for any of this. That's to say: Good thing it's based on faith.

Funny thing is, you do a lot of stuff based on faith and believing without any hard evidence.

Take talking to people on the internet, just like this forum. If I told you I was a 23 year old man, would you believe me? Why, or why not? There is no hard evidence either way to prove it. I'm not going to prove it to you even if you asked. But nearly every religious atheist and religious agnositic (people who say that they require proof before believing anything), will not be agnostic about people on the internet. They take people at their word, for the most part. They don't say "I'm not sure if OreEle is a guy or a girl, nor have any idea how old he/she is," well, except for Badger, but he is a light bulb shy of a single pack.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
vbaculum
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3/18/2011 5:52:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:37:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:28:07 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).

Does faith have any useful purpose that is not psychological (consolation, etc...)?

In and of itself? No. But that goes for a lot of things.

Yes but faith is literally a synonym for religion. Religions form the core of most peoples beliefs about ethics and metephysics. It's quite something to say that your most important beliefs are based on a psychological/epistomilogical trick.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 5:52:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"So you are on the side of the guy that wants you to love him or he will torture you forever? Good choice; I would be too. Good thing there's not a bit of evidence for any of this. That's to say: Good thing it's based on faith."

Evidence of God and Jesus?? It can be found in history and the bible. I do not believe in God because of hell I believe in God because he is my creator.
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/18/2011 6:00:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:52:55 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
"So you are on the side of the guy that wants you to love him or he will torture you forever? Good choice; I would be too. Good thing there's not a bit of evidence for any of this. That's to say: Good thing it's based on faith."

Evidence of God and Jesus?? It can be found in history and the bible. I do not believe in God because of hell I believe in God because he is my creator.

History does not prove God or Jesus. The bible does not prove God or Jesus.

What you consider to be proof can't actually be proof. You are very mistaken.

You make are making a lot of assumptions in your line of thinking, and it would do you good to examine those assumptions. If you do not know what these assumptions are, examine your thoughts and find out.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/18/2011 6:04:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:52:23 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:37:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:28:07 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).

Does faith have any useful purpose that is not psychological (consolation, etc...)?

In and of itself? No. But that goes for a lot of things.

Yes but faith is literally a synonym for religion. Religions form the core of most peoples beliefs about ethics and metephysics. It's quite something to say that your most important beliefs are based on a psychological/epistomilogical trick.

Faith goes beyond religion, far far beyond religion. Just as my example that you can have faith in the skills of a baseball team, you can have faith in your wife, or you can have faith in a God. It is not unique to religion (though religion certainly requires it more than anything else).

And what is wrong about people getting their ethics from a religion? Assuming the religion promotes decent ethics? Even in christianity, if you look at the various demoninations, their ethic systems vary greatly, between the westboro baptist church (that like to protest at the funerals of soldiers) to many baptist and methodist churches on the west coast which support gay marriage.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
vbaculum
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3/18/2011 6:07:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 5:51:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:45:19 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:31:41 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
I believe that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and all god want in return is love and if you sin you repent or go to hell. You may be thinking if God loves us than why send people to hell?? The individual I was speaking of also purposed that satin is actually the ritous one and that god is evil

So you are on the side of the guy that wants you to love him or he will torture you forever? Good choice; I would be too. Good thing there's not a bit of evidence for any of this. That's to say: Good thing it's based on faith.

Funny thing is, you do a lot of stuff based on faith and believing without any hard evidence.

Take talking to people on the internet, just like this forum. If I told you I was a 23 year old man, would you believe me? Why, or why not? There is no hard evidence either way to prove it. I'm not going to prove it to you even if you asked. But nearly every religious atheist and religious agnositic (people who say that they require proof before believing anything), will not be agnostic about people on the internet. They take people at their word, for the most part. They don't say "I'm not sure if OreEle is a guy or a girl, nor have any idea how old he/she is," well, except for Badger, but he is a light bulb shy of a single pack.

This is atheism 101 (and basic epistomolgy). Our brains are constantly determing the likelihood of this or that being true. The determination never reaches certainty though (expect in a few cases (i.e. cognito ergo sum)).

Now, if you were to tell me that you had a personal relationship with the creator of the universe's son who was also the creator of the universe then my brain would immediatly assign that claim an extremely low probability (never 0 though) of being true.

I don't need the word faith to explain any of this. "Level of certainty" suffices. Faith would only obscure what I've said which is its purpose (as a word).
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 6:12:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"History does not prove God or Jesus. The bible does not prove God or Jesus.

What you consider to be proof can't actually be proof. You are very mistaken.

You make are making a lot of assumptions in your line of thinking, and it would do you good to examine those assumptions. If you do not know what these assumptions are, examine your thoughts and find out."


You need to examine the bible closer history may not prove the existence of God but the bible does. Scrolls have been found written by Jesus disciples that date back to the time of Jesus coming.
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Ore_Ele
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3/18/2011 6:18:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:07:02 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:51:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:45:19 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:31:41 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
I believe that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and all god want in return is love and if you sin you repent or go to hell. You may be thinking if God loves us than why send people to hell?? The individual I was speaking of also purposed that satin is actually the ritous one and that god is evil

So you are on the side of the guy that wants you to love him or he will torture you forever? Good choice; I would be too. Good thing there's not a bit of evidence for any of this. That's to say: Good thing it's based on faith.

Funny thing is, you do a lot of stuff based on faith and believing without any hard evidence.

Take talking to people on the internet, just like this forum. If I told you I was a 23 year old man, would you believe me? Why, or why not? There is no hard evidence either way to prove it. I'm not going to prove it to you even if you asked. But nearly every religious atheist and religious agnositic (people who say that they require proof before believing anything), will not be agnostic about people on the internet. They take people at their word, for the most part. They don't say "I'm not sure if OreEle is a guy or a girl, nor have any idea how old he/she is," well, except for Badger, but he is a light bulb shy of a single pack.

This is atheism 101 (and basic epistomolgy). Our brains are constantly determing the likelihood of this or that being true. The determination never reaches certainty though (expect in a few cases (i.e. cognito ergo sum)).

Which is funny then when Atheist say "I have no reason to believe unless you can prove that God exists." (see countless debates on it).


Now, if you were to tell me that you had a personal relationship with the creator of the universe's son who was also the creator of the universe then my brain would immediatly assign that claim an extremely low probability (never 0 though) of being true.

But also, what are the odds of me being 23 years old? Most of the population is not 23 years old, in fact, less than 3% of the population is 23 years old. Add that I'm claiming to be white, a man, and color blind, the statistical odds are less than 1:700, if I start adding in things like my height and weight, hair color and eye color, we'll get to the statistical odds being less than 1:100,000, yet most people believe me without question, don't they.


I don't need the word faith to explain any of this. "Level of certainty" suffices. Faith would only obscure what I've said which is its purpose (as a word).

You really don't need any particular word to describe any thing, pretty much anything can be described in multiple ways.

And I would disagree that the purpose of faith is to "obscure" anything. When people mis-use it for actually knowing, then the error lies in the hands of the people mis-using the word, not in the word itself.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
vbaculum
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3/18/2011 6:22:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:04:25 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:52:23 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:37:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:28:07 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).

Does faith have any useful purpose that is not psychological (consolation, etc...)?

In and of itself? No. But that goes for a lot of things.

Yes but faith is literally a synonym for religion. Religions form the core of most peoples beliefs about ethics and metephysics. It's quite something to say that your most important beliefs are based on a psychological/epistomilogical trick.

Faith goes beyond religion, far far beyond religion. Just as my example that you can have faith in the skills of a baseball team, you can have faith in your wife, or you can have faith in a God. It is not unique to religion (though religion certainly requires it more than anything else).

And what is wrong about people getting their ethics from a religion? Assuming the religion promotes decent ethics? Even in christianity, if you look at the various demoninations, their ethic systems vary greatly, between the westboro baptist church (that like to protest at the funerals of soldiers) to many baptist and methodist churches on the west coast which support gay marriage.

Why would anyone need to get ethics from religion. As you would agree, religions are often dubious sources of ethics. If ethics are important to a given person (which is a requirement for wanting to get ethics from somewhere in the first place) then one should be able to develope their own ethical system based on the rational workings of their mind.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Ore_Ele
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3/18/2011 6:27:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:22:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 6:04:25 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:52:23 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:37:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 5:28:07 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:56:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:52:39 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:44:39 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
There is a kid in my English class and he was in my group to discuss mythology. He despised me and he thinks that I am an imbecile. We were arguing about religion. Most of the regular members here know by now that I am a Christian. This individual stated that all Christians are dumb and use their faith to block the ability to poses knowledge(there were three christians in the group including myself). His theories make no sense to me, and he made me feel stupid. I want to know your opinion on this matter.

Faith is saying you know something for which you have no evidence. It's worse than stupid; it's lying.

False, faith is saying you believe something for which you do not have sufficient eveidence.

For example. I can have faith in the skills of a baseball team to make it to the playoffs. I can have some evidence which supports this faith, though it is not enough to prove that they will make it (since the future is not yet writen).

Does faith have any useful purpose that is not psychological (consolation, etc...)?

In and of itself? No. But that goes for a lot of things.

Yes but faith is literally a synonym for religion. Religions form the core of most peoples beliefs about ethics and metephysics. It's quite something to say that your most important beliefs are based on a psychological/epistomilogical trick.

Faith goes beyond religion, far far beyond religion. Just as my example that you can have faith in the skills of a baseball team, you can have faith in your wife, or you can have faith in a God. It is not unique to religion (though religion certainly requires it more than anything else).

And what is wrong about people getting their ethics from a religion? Assuming the religion promotes decent ethics? Even in christianity, if you look at the various demoninations, their ethic systems vary greatly, between the westboro baptist church (that like to protest at the funerals of soldiers) to many baptist and methodist churches on the west coast which support gay marriage.

Why would anyone need to get ethics from religion. As you would agree, religions are often dubious sources of ethics. If ethics are important to a given person (which is a requirement for wanting to get ethics from somewhere in the first place) then one should be able to develope their own ethical system based on the rational workings of their mind.

They most often do, and they just happen to find that the religion agrees with them (part of what draws them into a religion). Do you think that christians believe that killing is wrong only because the Jesus says so?

What normally happens is that Jesus says A. B. and C. (which they hear through their church, or reading the bible themselves) about morals, and they think, "yeah, that makes sense, I like that." and they adopt it.

I personally think that at some point, everyone should take some time to really find their own ethics and morals for themselves, but I also think that they should do it when it is right for them, and until then, if they like the ethics from the bible, that is perfectly fine.
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FREEDO
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3/18/2011 6:27:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The only instance in which I have respect for faith is when it is derived from the realization of "The Absurd" and one takes "the leap of faith".

Otherwise, faith is simply the choice to not think.
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fnord
THE_OPINIONATOR
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3/18/2011 6:28:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"I have faith in my fellow man to question their faiths eventually."

everyone doubts their faith at some point.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,288
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3/18/2011 6:29:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:27:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The only instance in which I have respect for faith is when it is derived from the realization of "The Absurd" and one takes "the leap of faith".

Otherwise, faith is simply the choice to not think.

Faith opens the mind up to possibilities in the absence of probable evidence.
CosmicAlfonzo
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3/18/2011 6:35:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:12:27 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
"History does not prove God or Jesus. The bible does not prove God or Jesus.

What you consider to be proof can't actually be proof. You are very mistaken.

You make are making a lot of assumptions in your line of thinking, and it would do you good to examine those assumptions. If you do not know what these assumptions are, examine your thoughts and find out."


You need to examine the bible closer history may not prove the existence of God but the bible does. Scrolls have been found written by Jesus disciples that date back to the time of Jesus coming.

There is little biblical or historical evidence that can be called proof. I am a former Christian who has studied these things excessively. I don't need to examine anything closer, I'm telling you that you are wrong. The bible does not prove the existence of anything other than the bible itself.

Also, high fives at Freedo.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,288
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3/18/2011 6:37:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:27:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The only instance in which I have respect for faith is when it is derived from the realization of "The Absurd" and one takes "the leap of faith".

Otherwise, AGNOSTICISM is simply the choice to not think.

possible fix?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/18/2011 6:40:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:37:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/18/2011 6:27:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The only instance in which I have respect for faith is when it is derived from the realization of "The Absurd" and one takes "the leap of faith".

Otherwise, AGNOSTICISM is simply the choice to not think.

possible fix?

No, agnosticism is simply the choice to not make a choice. Which is perfectly fine in some cases. I have two friends that decided to date then breakup, badly. I'm not picking sides and I'm staying out of it. The friend that says it's either me or them, is the one that is no longer my friend. But I won't pick a side (similar to being agnostic about it).
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/18/2011 6:43:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 6:37:35 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/18/2011 6:27:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The only instance in which I have respect for faith is when it is derived from the realization of "The Absurd" and one takes "the leap of faith".

Otherwise, AGNOSTICISM is simply the choice to not think.

possible fix?

Nah, I wouldn't say so. Agnosticism is just being honest.

You can be an agnostic, and think heavily about these things, but still realize that it is absurd to think you can know.

Agnosticism is very rational.

That said, I'm not going to say that there aren't intellectually lazy agnostics.

It takes a degree of faith to even acknowledge that the world around you exists. It takes faith to accomplish anything with your life at all. Faith is very valuable, and necessary.

People who completely lack faith, claiming to be purely logical are not nearly as logical as they may think.

Though of course, what I'm saying is completely meaningless unless everyone has the same understanding of what "faith" means. I'm not talking about "faith" as in, belief in a certain religion.. I'm talking about faith in a practical sense.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp