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Is Faith a Virtue?

vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/21/2011 4:16:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Obviously it's not. I just wanted to hear how religious people would answer this.

Is faith a virtue? Should one aspire to be a "person of faith"? Is someone with faith better than one without?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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Ogan
Posts: 407
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3/21/2011 5:03:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Faith is not belief. Faith is the substance of things not YET seen. It cannot be understood by reason, if it could, it would no longer be Faith but reason. Reason without Faith leads to nothing but objective reality, which is merely a realization of the senses and is an imbalance. Faith without reason makes us lose touch with objective reality and causes another imbalance. Together they make a formidable pair.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/21/2011 5:24:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Faith is an optimism in Buddhism. It does not make assertions which would require suspention of reason to believe because all Buddhist beliefs are derived from empirical observation and deductive reasoning.

So the Buddha would speak against doubt and suggest optimisitic faith. By doubt is meant a sort of self-doubt and negative attitude, not skepticism.
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/21/2011 5:44:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To put it succinctly, faith in Buddhism is an attitude, not a belief.

There's no propositions in which the Buddha asks you to have faith in, on the contrary he suggests subjecting his teachings to testing and critical analysis to know them for yourself.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/21/2011 6:51:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/21/2011 5:03:29 PM, Ogan wrote:
Faith is not belief. Faith is the substance of things not YET seen. It cannot be understood by reason, if it could, it would no longer be Faith but reason. Reason without Faith leads to nothing but objective reality, which is merely a realization of the senses and is an imbalance. Faith without reason makes us lose touch with objective reality and causes another imbalance. Together they make a formidable pair.

What are the consequences of being a person incapable of faith? You would say that one would be 'imbalanced' but what does that mean exactly.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,294
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3/21/2011 7:06:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/21/2011 6:51:25 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/21/2011 5:03:29 PM, Ogan wrote:
Faith is not belief. Faith is the substance of things not YET seen. It cannot be understood by reason, if it could, it would no longer be Faith but reason. Reason without Faith leads to nothing but objective reality, which is merely a realization of the senses and is an imbalance. Faith without reason makes us lose touch with objective reality and causes another imbalance. Together they make a formidable pair.

What are the consequences of being a person incapable of faith? You would say that one would be 'imbalanced' but what does that mean exactly.

You could go crazy if your mind did not naturally fill in the blanks.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/21/2011 10:54:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/21/2011 6:07:50 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think intuition is an optimistic faith possibly?

I don't need "faith" I have intuition.

I don't need "faith" that things are as they seem.. They just naturally/continuously/overwhelmingly seem to be that way... and I naturally/continously/undeniably tend to think of things as being as they seem.

no need of having unreasonable Belief that they ABSOLUTELY ARE that way...
I just naturally tend to think they are.. See things as though they are.. and act as though they are.

Intuition exists.. and it is not Faith.. and faith is not necessary.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/22/2011 5:00:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/21/2011 4:16:06 PM, vbaculum wrote:
Obviously it's not. I just wanted to hear how religious people would answer this.

Is faith a virtue? Should one aspire to be a "person of faith"? Is someone with faith better than one without?

It's not a simple yes or no answer.. faith is first and formost a GIFT.. what we do with that gift (accept? unwrap? share? thankful? etc) could be construed as virtuous or not..

To some extent we all must have faith in something; money, fame, education, intelligence, science.. whatever..
HOWEVER, all faith in things that are finite are, by definition, a finite faith.. only faith in the infinite is a true faith, a true hope..

lots of love songs talk about 'forever' because to not do so is no kind of love at all..
The Cross.. the Cross.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/22/2011 5:16:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Skepticism is not expediant from an evolutionary perspective, and not usually socially expediant. Faith in moderation is.
Ogan
Posts: 407
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3/22/2011 11:37:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/21/2011 6:51:25 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/21/2011 5:03:29 PM, Ogan wrote:
Faith is not belief. Faith is the substance of things not YET seen. It cannot be understood by reason, if it could, it would no longer be Faith but reason. Reason without Faith leads to nothing but objective reality, which is merely a realization of the senses and is an imbalance. Faith without reason makes us lose touch with objective reality and causes another imbalance. Together they make a formidable pair.

What are the consequences of being a person incapable of faith? You would say that one would be 'imbalanced' but what does that mean exactly.

Robby the robot, the supreme, all-knowing data collector, but with animal senses thrown in with the 3 F's - nothing more.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/22/2011 11:50:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 5:16:40 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Skepticism is not expediant from an evolutionary perspective,

lol.. who sees things from an evolutionary perspective?

and not usually socially expediant. Faith in moderation is.

anywho... Evolution has landed us with Intuition.. and, as I said in my earlier post.. that's not "faith".. and faith is not necessary, or useful..

it is intuition that is undeniable... when people claim "everyone has faith in something" they're wrong.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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3/22/2011 12:11:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Faith is when one believes something totally ridiculous, but then one is put under pressure to bring actual evidence for their claims. When one cannot find any evidence, one merely proclaims that it is virtuous to suspend logic and reason to believe in something which brings comfort to them. Faith is selfishness.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/22/2011 12:37:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Faith is a gift, it is an experience, it is a relationship, it is an interpretation and an application of that interpretation, it is an understanding. It can run thin at times, and run incredibly strong at times. It is a confidence.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/22/2011 12:38:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 11:50:47 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/22/2011 5:16:40 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Skepticism is not expediant from an evolutionary perspective,

lol.. who sees things from an evolutionary perspective?

and not usually socially expediant. Faith in moderation is.

anywho... Evolution has landed us with Intuition.. and, as I said in my earlier post.. that's not "faith".. and faith is not necessary, or useful..

I'm not saying it is a good idea, just that as I don't believe in "virtues" I answered the question looking at the social value of faith.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/22/2011 12:38:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 12:11:00 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Faith is when one believes something totally ridiculous, but then one is put under pressure to bring actual evidence for their claims. When one cannot find any evidence, one merely proclaims that it is virtuous to suspend logic and reason to believe in something which brings comfort to them. Faith is selfishness.

BS definition of faith.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/23/2011 10:56:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 12:11:00 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Faith is when one believes something totally ridiculous, but then one is put under pressure to bring actual evidence for their claims. When one cannot find any evidence, one merely proclaims that it is virtuous to suspend logic and reason to believe in something which brings comfort to them. Faith is selfishness.

No, faith is a constant in every second of our lives; you have faith that each breath you take will have the right amount of oxygen etc in it.. you have faith that you will wake to a new day each day.. you have faith that your perceptions of reality (spatial, emotional, intellectual etc) can be relied upon.. you have faith that your body will obey your brain.. the list is pretty much endless..

Now, TRUE FAITH is knowing that a good and loving and just God is behind these and ALL things!
The Cross.. the Cross.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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3/23/2011 12:10:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/23/2011 10:56:06 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/22/2011 12:11:00 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Faith is when one believes something totally ridiculous, but then one is put under pressure to bring actual evidence for their claims. When one cannot find any evidence, one merely proclaims that it is virtuous to suspend logic and reason to believe in something which brings comfort to them. Faith is selfishness.

No, faith is a constant in every second of our lives; you have faith that each breath you take will have the right amount of oxygen etc in it.. you have faith that you will wake to a new day each day.. you have faith that your perceptions of reality (spatial, emotional, intellectual etc) can be relied upon.. you have faith that your body will obey your brain.. the list is pretty much endless..

Now, TRUE FAITH is knowing that a good and loving and just God is behind these and ALL things!

http://www.debate.org...
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.