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Do you go to hell if you don't know

humbleinmyunderstanding
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3/25/2011 10:18:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Important!!! Seek the truth. Because you will be held accountable. Being born in USA and having access to the truth. "Seek and you will find". Hurry, before you are too late!
Read your Bible and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord, otherwise, you will have to answer to Him when He returns, why you haven't done so. And it might be too late!
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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3/25/2011 10:31:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Maybe someone should take one for the team and burn all the religious texts so that everyone else can go to heaven since they never could find the truth.
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DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/26/2011 6:34:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/25/2011 5:22:39 PM, reddj2 wrote:
Will a person whos never heard of the bible go to hell if they never did anything wrong?

Jews will be judged by The Law..

Christians will be judged by The Gospel..

Everyone else will be judged by their consciences: Treat others as you would wish to be treated, the measure you use will be used against you etc..
The Cross.. the Cross.
general52
Posts: 5
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3/26/2011 7:19:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/25/2011 5:22:39 PM, reddj2 wrote:
Will a person whos never heard of the bible go to hell if they never did anything wrong?

Read Acts 17:30 to get it in context start at verse 22(I think that's early enough). This is a question that you should get a bible answer for.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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3/26/2011 8:03:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/26/2011 6:34:41 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/25/2011 5:22:39 PM, reddj2 wrote:
Will a person whos never heard of the bible go to hell if they never did anything wrong?

Jews will be judged by The Law..

Christians will be judged by The Gospel..

Everyone else will be judged by their consciences: Treat others as you would wish to be treated, the measure you use will be used against you etc..

It's going to suck when all the Jews go to hell for failing to abide by the law and not killing all the gays.(Leviticus 20: 13) Luckily though god decided that for some reason you only had to kill a homo if you were a Jew.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/26/2011 8:04:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Not according to Islam. If you are not aware of the message of Islam, and you do not reject it willingly, then you are excused.

[Qur'an 17:15] "We never punish until we have sent a messenger (to warn)."
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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3/26/2011 8:25:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/26/2011 7:19:46 PM, general52 wrote:
At 3/25/2011 5:22:39 PM, reddj2 wrote:
Will a person whos never heard of the bible go to hell if they never did anything wrong?

Read Acts 17:30 to get it in context start at verse 22(I think that's early enough). This is a question that you should get a bible answer for.

Yes, indeed - go to the Bible. I suggest starting at Romans 1:18.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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3/26/2011 8:52:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/25/2011 10:31:57 PM, Sieben wrote:
Maybe someone should take one for the team and burn all the religious texts so that everyone else can go to heaven since they never could find the truth.

lol
ruelariat
Posts: 186
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3/26/2011 9:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
My ninth grade english teacher apparently thought so. We were going over Romeo and Juliet and somehow we ended up talking about their beliefs and a girl asked if she believed that (assuming Romeo and Juliet are real) they went to hell when they died and she said yes. She also said she believes that everyone who believed in Zeus and such went to hell.

Me: I don't believe in an afterlife. Just thought I'd share her opinion because it amuses me.
reddj2
Posts: 239
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3/27/2011 12:09:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/26/2011 8:03:18 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/26/2011 6:34:41 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/25/2011 5:22:39 PM, reddj2 wrote:
Will a person whos never heard of the bible go to hell if they never did anything wrong?

Jews will be judged by The Law..

Christians will be judged by The Gospel..

Everyone else will be judged by their consciences: Treat others as you would wish to be treated, the measure you use will be used against you etc..


It's going to suck when all the Jews go to hell for failing to abide by the law and not killing all the gays.(Leviticus 20: 13) Luckily though god decided that for some reason you only had to kill a homo if you were a Jew.
Or a nazi
reddj2
Posts: 239
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3/27/2011 12:10:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/26/2011 8:04:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
Not according to Islam. If you are not aware of the message of Islam, and you do not reject it willingly, then you are excused.

[Qur'an 17:15] "We never punish until we have sent a messenger (to warn)."

Christ 0
Muhammad 1
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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3/27/2011 8:53:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/26/2011 8:04:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
Not according to Islam. If you are not aware of the message of Islam, and you do not reject it willingly, then you are excused.

[Qur'an 17:15] "We never punish until we have sent a messenger (to warn)."

Which implies that you should just take 1 for the team and stop spreading the message of islam. You'll go to hell, but you'll have saved dozens of people who would have rejected islam anyway
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Mirza
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3/27/2011 9:17:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 8:53:43 AM, Sieben wrote:
Which implies that you should just take 1 for the team and stop spreading the message of islam. You'll go to hell,
You have a vague vision of what Islam says about Hell.

but you'll have saved dozens of people who would have rejected islam anyway
Spreading Islam means you help saving those who actually do reject the message of Islam, and you help the next generations follow Islam. Just because those who do not directly reject Islam are excused if God is Willing does in no way indicate that there are no good reasons to welcome them to Islam. If they are doing things that harm them and others, why not introduce to them a religion that can guide them properly? And, why not introduce Islam to those who try to lead other Muslims astray, even through ignorance? Should I simply let it go and watch Muslims leave Islam due to a reasoning given by ignorants? No.
Sieben
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3/27/2011 9:42:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 9:17:16 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 3/27/2011 8:53:43 AM, Sieben wrote:
Which implies that you should just take 1 for the team and stop spreading the message of islam. You'll go to hell,
You have a vague vision of what Islam says about Hell.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
but you'll have saved dozens of people who would have rejected islam anyway
Spreading Islam means you help saving those who actually do reject the message of Islam, and you help the next generations follow Islam. Just because those who do not directly reject Islam are excused if God is Willing does in no way indicate that there are no good reasons to welcome them to Islam. If they are doing things that harm them and others, why not introduce to them a religion that can guide them properly? And, why not introduce Islam to those who try to lead other Muslims astray, even through ignorance? Should I simply let it go and watch Muslims leave Islam due to a reasoning given by ignorants? No.

Okay. So for the short while, you should try to figure out if someone has *heard* of islam before you try to talk to them. But for the long term, you should take one for the team and destroy as many Korans as possible. Convince your islamic brothers to do so too, and if we can wipe the message of islam off the face of the earth, no one will be punished.

Please?
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/27/2011 10:09:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 9:42:28 AM, Sieben wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
I said you, not Wikipedia. Nevertheless, you do not simply go to Hell for sinning or whatever else. There is a lot more in who deserves to be punished than merely one who sins. Every human sins.

Okay. So for the short while, you should try to figure out if someone has *heard* of islam before you try to talk to them. But for the long term, you should take one for the team and destroy as many Korans as possible. Convince your islamic brothers to do so too, and if we can wipe the message of islam off the face of the earth, no one will be punished.

Please?
Islam is more than mere belief in God. It is a full guidance in life. Why would we let the world not hear about Islam? It is like wiping off feelings, morality, etc., off of every human being on the planet. How would that go? Not very well. Similarly, why should we not guide people to Islam so that they can live their lives more properly? If people in a random village never hear of Islam, but they don't know how to live lives properly, find solutions to problems in families, etc., then why would I not introduce Islam to them so they can live life more properly? Also, in Islam, a Muslim's good deeds can continue growing when he is dead. If he raises a Muslim child, his child can pray for him. If he converts someone to Islam, then every good deed of those people counts for him, too. So there are many benefits both for the spreader of Islam and the receivers.
Sieben
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3/27/2011 10:58:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 10:09:17 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 3/27/2011 9:42:28 AM, Sieben wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
I said you, not Wikipedia. Nevertheless, you do not simply go to Hell for sinning or whatever else. There is a lot more in who deserves to be punished than merely one who sins. Every human sins.

Still showing no relevance.

Islam is more than mere belief in God. It is a full guidance in life. Why would we let the world not hear about Islam? It is like wiping off feelings, morality, etc., off of every human being on the planet.

I'm pretty sure we'd still have morality and feelings without islam. There are a lot of reasons people don't kill.

How would that go? Not very well.

Actually the most successful countries on earth aren't islamic.

Similarly, why should we not guide people to Islam so that they can live their lives more properly?

Because that's only *this* life. It is nothing compared to eternity in hell.

If people in a random village never hear of Islam, but they don't know how to live lives properly, find solutions to problems in families, etc., then why would I not introduce Islam to them so they can live life more properly?

Because you can teach them good things without telling them that there's a big scary magic man.

Also, in Islam, a Muslim's good deeds can continue growing when he is dead. If he raises a Muslim child, his child can pray for him. If he converts someone to Islam, then every good deed of those people counts for him, too. So there are many benefits both for the spreader of Islam and the receivers.

That's very selfish of you Mirza. Hence "take on for the team".
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/27/2011 11:03:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
90% of your response is irrelevant. I didn't say Islam = all morality. I am saying that "if" we wipe off morality and other things which stabilize the world, then it would not go very well. Similarly, if Islam is not there, people could do things that Islam deems as corruption, so there is still a point in introducing Islam to people. Moreover, nothing is selfish about helping yourself and other people too.
Sieben
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3/27/2011 11:43:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 11:03:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
90% of your response is irrelevant. I didn't say Islam = all morality. I am saying that "if" we wipe off morality and other things which stabilize the world, then it would not go very well.

But I am not saying that. I'm just saying we should get rid of islam.

Similarly, if Islam is not there, people could do things that Islam deems as corruption, so there is still a point in introducing Islam to people. Moreover, nothing is selfish about helping yourself and other people too.

But this is a short term consideration. The afterlife is forever.
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Mirza
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3/27/2011 1:25:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 11:43:33 AM, Sieben wrote:
But I am not saying that. I'm just saying we should get rid of islam.
Islam exists even if, hypothetically, the Qur'an didn't. It means "Submitting your will to God," and if you do not have the Qur'an to remind you of it, you have other means. The Christians were Muslims prior to the Qur'an. They followed the teachings of Christ (peace be upon him), and followed the Bible.

But this is a short term consideration. The afterlife is forever.
Life being good in both lives is what is best.
Sieben
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3/27/2011 1:31:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 1:25:49 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 3/27/2011 11:43:33 AM, Sieben wrote:
But I am not saying that. I'm just saying we should get rid of islam.
Islam exists even if, hypothetically, the Qur'an didn't. It means "Submitting your will to God," and if you do not have the Qur'an to remind you of it, you have other means. The Christians were Muslims prior to the Qur'an. They followed the teachings of Christ (peace be upon him), and followed the Bible.

Zzzz I'm saying we should get rid of ALL religions so that no one goes to hell.

But this is a short term consideration. The afterlife is forever.
Life being good in both lives is what is best.

If even .001% of people do not follow islam after hearing about it, there is more benefit from annihilating it than keeping it around. Any supposed goodness in billions of human lives would be outweighed by the suffering of 1 for eternity.
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Mirza
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3/27/2011 1:52:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 1:31:16 PM, Sieben wrote:
Zzzz I'm saying we should get rid of ALL religions so that no one goes to hell.
Not only is it impossible, but even if that happened, then people would still believe in God, and form moral systems. Why would God accept people forming their own moral systems? Letting something completely corrupt be considered moral would be illogical. Religions are there to remind people and guide them properly.

If even .001% of people do not follow islam after hearing about it, there is more benefit from annihilating it than keeping it around. Any supposed goodness in billions of human lives would be outweighed by the suffering of 1 for eternity.
No, because people would start doing things and attribute things to God that could be totally false. Maybe they would permit killing. Why would God permit killing of innocents? So, He sends reminders to people in order to let them be guided throughout their lives, and as for the few who have no opportunity to hear of the true message, they are excused. But they alone do not create chaos.
Sieben
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3/27/2011 2:06:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 1:52:16 PM, Mirza wrote:
Not only is it impossible, but even if that happened, then people would still believe in God, and form moral systems. Why would God accept people forming their own moral systems? Letting something completely corrupt be considered moral would be illogical. Religions are there to remind people and guide them properly.

I thought you said Allah wouldn't punish you if you didn't know about the Koran. Like if you went full retard like Descartes and believed in the wrong religion he wouldn't punish you.

No, because people would start doing things and attribute things to God that could be totally false. Maybe they would permit killing. Why would God permit killing of innocents?
Wait so if people are atheists cus they never heard about islam, they don't go to hell... but if they're theists and they never heard about islam, then they DO go to hell?

So, He sends reminders to people in order to let them be guided throughout their lives, and as for the few who have no opportunity to hear of the true message, they are excused. But they alone do not create chaos.

Again, it doesn't matter what happens on this earth. The infinite afterlife outweighs all.
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Mirza
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3/27/2011 2:13:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 2:06:58 PM, Sieben wrote:
I thought you said Allah wouldn't punish you if you didn't know about the Koran. Like if you went full retard like Descartes and believed in the wrong religion he wouldn't punish you.
1. God knows who should be punished and who should not. He knows best. 2. That's because the Qur'an is the last reminder by God according to Islam. Prior to its revelation, other scriptures were sent by God to guide people.

Wait so if people are atheists cus they never heard about islam, they don't go to hell... but if they're theists and they never heard about islam, then they DO go to hell?
I did not say that. I am saying that without any guidance to humankind, they would do horrid things that go against what God considers best to humankind. If God wants the best for us, which is the case, then He is not going to let humankind be on their own.

Again, it doesn't matter what happens on this earth. The infinite afterlife outweighs all.
It does matter. God wants people to follow proper guidance. How can they do it without any reminder of what is good? Maybe they would say murder is moral, adultery is moral, etc. God does not deem those as moral. So, if those things (and many other bad thins) make it hard for humankind to be happy and prosperous, why would God simply let it be? He would not. Instead, He makes rules about how we should behave and live our lives so that as man people as possible can follow God's rules properly in order to be prosperous in this life and achieve a high rank in the Hereafter.
vardas0antras
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3/27/2011 2:14:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/26/2011 8:08:21 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
If ignorant people don't go to hell then why are Christians so obsessed with preaching?

*facepalm*
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Sieben
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3/27/2011 2:35:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 2:13:50 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 3/27/2011 2:06:58 PM, Sieben wrote:
I thought you said Allah wouldn't punish you if you didn't know about the Koran. Like if you went full retard like Descartes and believed in the wrong religion he wouldn't punish you.
1. God knows who should be punished and who should not. He knows best. 2. That's because the Qur'an is the last reminder by God according to Islam. Prior to its revelation, other scriptures were sent by God to guide people.

That is not an answer to what I wrote. Do ignorant atheists go to hell? No. Do ignorant theists go to hell...?

Wait so if people are atheists cus they never heard about islam, they don't go to hell... but if they're theists and they never heard about islam, then they DO go to hell?
I did not say that. I am saying that without any guidance to humankind, they would do horrid things that go against what God considers best to humankind. If God wants the best for us, which is the case, then He is not going to let humankind be on their own.

But I've repeatedly argued that what happens in this life does not matter one lick compared to the afterlife. So we shouldn't try to make things marginally better here if its going to send more people to hell.

Again, it doesn't matter what happens on this earth. The infinite afterlife outweighs all.
It does matter. God wants people to follow proper guidance.
Who cares what god wants? That's very shortsighted of you.

How can they do it without any reminder of what is good? Maybe they would say murder is moral, adultery is moral, etc. God does not deem those as moral. So, if those things (and many other bad thins) make it hard for humankind to be happy and prosperous, why would God simply let it be? He would not. Instead, He makes rules about how we should behave and live our lives so that as man people as possible can follow God's rules properly in order to be prosperous in this life and achieve a high rank in the Hereafter.

So how is it that *anyone* hasn't heard of islam? My theory is that its because your god doesn't exist.
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InsertNameHere
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3/27/2011 2:41:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 2:14:50 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 3/26/2011 8:08:21 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
If ignorant people don't go to hell then why are Christians so obsessed with preaching?

*facepalm*

How is that that warrant a facepalm as a response? It's a serious question. I know this is true about Islam(I'm not so sure about Christianity), that if you're completely ignorant of the faith you're saved. If that's the case, why are people preaching? Are they trying to send more people to hell?
Greyparrot
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3/27/2011 2:46:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A real God does not judge.

"God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

If it is all 'very good', why judge?

It's all good bro.
Mirza
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3/27/2011 2:46:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 2:35:51 PM, Sieben wrote:
That is not an answer to what I wrote. Do ignorant atheists go to hell? No. Do ignorant theists go to hell...?
Only God knows who will go to Hell. But it is clear that if someone is ignorant of God's message, then he is excused - but all decisions lie in God's will. As for theists, it is the same - if they have got no message about Islam, and they do not reject it, then they are not those who conceal the truth. And God knows best.

But I've repeatedly argued that what happens in this life does not matter one lick compared to the afterlife. So we shouldn't try to make things marginally better here if its going to send more people to hell.
Again, it matters a lot. God created us to worship Him. If say, humans have no sense of what is good and bad, then they would maybe let mankind go extinct - maybe even a long time ago. That would be illogical. God would not create people without guiding them. Your theory about more people being sent to Hell is wrong. People will always believe in God. And they should do it correctly. Therefore, God sends guidance. If someone rejects it, it is his own fault.

Who cares what god wants? That's very shortsighted of you.
Because God is the source of guidance according to religion.

So how is it that *anyone* hasn't heard of islam? My theory is that its because your god doesn't exist.
You mean "everyone." That can be due to many reasons, but it does nothing to disprove God. God guides who He wills. Unless He said that he will make every human follow His way, then your point means nothing.