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Judgemental religion?

trkwpb
Posts: 15
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3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I know a lot of Christian people. Even though I left the Christian religion over 20 years ago, I am willing to discuss the religion with my former classmates and fellow church-goers. We have had quite a few interesting discussions centered around why I left Christianity for my current spiritual path. Almost without exception, they feel as if they have a right to call my path a lie and a deception; however, when I begin to point out the inconsistencies and intellectual dishonesty present in their own belief system, they get offended.

Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

That being said, I have no personal problem with anyone's beliefs or lack thereof so long as they realize that their beliefs are precisely that...their beliefs.
So long as my actions do not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other, it's none of your business what I do - Peter McWilliams
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/30/2011 12:58:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

Define "okay".

In all seriousness, I do not see the reason why someone would be exempt from criticism when they are criticizing the beliefs of others.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
trkwpb
Posts: 15
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3/30/2011 1:13:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 12:58:37 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

Define "okay".

In all seriousness, I do not see the reason why someone would be exempt from criticism when they are criticizing the beliefs of others.

"Okay", in this instance, can be defined as acceptable within the confines of their belief system. In other words, they have the right to question my beliefs but I do not have the same right to question theirs.
So long as my actions do not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other, it's none of your business what I do - Peter McWilliams
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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3/30/2011 2:58:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If they aren't allowed to question their own religion, what gives you the right to do it?

>.>
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/30/2011 3:01:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 1:13:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
At 3/30/2011 12:58:37 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

Define "okay".

In all seriousness, I do not see the reason why someone would be exempt from criticism when they are criticizing the beliefs of others.

"Okay", in this instance, can be defined as acceptable within the confines of their belief system. In other words, they have the right to question my beliefs but I do not have the same right to question theirs.

Everyone has the ability to question and examine -- some execute that ability with more honesty than others. Those who hide behind the idea that their belief system is exempt from examination due to their own embarrassment when caught in a lie should be treated like what they are -- intellectually dishonest cowards. :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/30/2011 3:10:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
I know a lot of Christian people. Even though I left the Christian religion over 20 years ago, I am willing to discuss the religion with my former classmates and fellow church-goers. We have had quite a few interesting discussions centered around why I left Christianity for my current spiritual path. Almost without exception, they feel as if they have a right to call my path a lie and a deception; however, when I begin to point out the inconsistencies and intellectual dishonesty present in their own belief system, they get offended.

Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

That being said, I have no personal problem with anyone's beliefs or lack thereof so long as they realize that their beliefs are precisely that...their beliefs.

If the intent of your discussion is to initiate a critical forum, and they really aren't up for or to it, then you're poking the bear. This isn't just true of religion, but politics, or any issue that's connected to one's identity. It takes a special kind of person who wants an honest discussion that involves the critique of their belief system, and to open one up is to invite all sorts of irrationality and emotion.

That's why we come here, because most are here for that very reason, and that's why this site is not for most.
trkwpb
Posts: 15
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3/30/2011 4:17:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 3:01:37 PM, annhasle wrote:

Everyone has the ability to question and examine -- some execute that ability with more honesty than others. Those who hide behind the idea that their belief system is exempt from examination due to their own embarrassment when caught in a lie should be treated like what they are -- intellectually dishonest cowards. :)

I agree.
So long as my actions do not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other, it's none of your business what I do - Peter McWilliams
trkwpb
Posts: 15
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3/30/2011 4:26:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 3:10:02 PM, innomen wrote:

If the intent of your discussion is to initiate a critical forum, and they really aren't up for or to it, then you're poking the bear. This isn't just true of religion, but politics, or any issue that's connected to one's identity. It takes a special kind of person who wants an honest discussion that involves the critique of their belief system, and to open one up is to invite all sorts of irrationality and emotion.

That's why we come here, because most are here for that very reason, and that's why this site is not for most.

I will confess to occasionally poking the tiger (or bear) with the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses. I do relish a good argument :) In the case of the question I posed here, there was no poking of any furry critters.
So long as my actions do not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other, it's none of your business what I do - Peter McWilliams
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/30/2011 4:51:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 2:58:08 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
If they aren't allowed to question their own religion, what gives you the right to do it?

>.>
That's an interesting take on it :)
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/30/2011 5:07:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 4:26:59 PM, trkwpb wrote:
At 3/30/2011 3:10:02 PM, innomen wrote:

If the intent of your discussion is to initiate a critical forum, and they really aren't up for or to it, then you're poking the bear. This isn't just true of religion, but politics, or any issue that's connected to one's identity. It takes a special kind of person who wants an honest discussion that involves the critique of their belief system, and to open one up is to invite all sorts of irrationality and emotion.

That's why we come here, because most are here for that very reason, and that's why this site is not for most.

I will confess to occasionally poking the tiger (or bear) with the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses. I do relish a good argument :) In the case of the question I posed here, there was no poking of any furry critters.

Generally what people think or believe is non of my business unless they make it my business. I have no interest in taking away something that makes them comfortable in order to make me feel superior. My mother has quite a few delusions that make her feel more comfortable, she maintains them so she can find greater peace. Who am i to come along and tell her how she is believing in things that i know are not true?
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/31/2011 5:19:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
I know a lot of Christian people. Even though I left the Christian religion over 20 years ago, I am willing to discuss the religion with my former classmates and fellow church-goers. We have had quite a few interesting discussions centered around why I left Christianity for my current spiritual path. Almost without exception, they feel as if they have a right to call my path a lie and a deception; however, when I begin to point out the inconsistencies and intellectual dishonesty present in their own belief system, they get offended.

Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

That being said, I have no personal problem with anyone's beliefs or lack thereof so long as they realize that their beliefs are precisely that...their beliefs.

Perhaps they are right about you being deceived but wrong to get offended?

I'd like to hear some of these supposed inconsistencies!
The Cross.. the Cross.
trkwpb
Posts: 15
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3/31/2011 9:34:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 5:19:16 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 3/30/2011 12:50:13 PM, trkwpb wrote:
I know a lot of Christian people. Even though I left the Christian religion over 20 years ago, I am willing to discuss the religion with my former classmates and fellow church-goers. We have had quite a few interesting discussions centered around why I left Christianity for my current spiritual path. Almost without exception, they feel as if they have a right to call my path a lie and a deception; however, when I begin to point out the inconsistencies and intellectual dishonesty present in their own belief system, they get offended.

Why is it okay for you to trash my belief system but not for me to return the favor?

That being said, I have no personal problem with anyone's beliefs or lack thereof so long as they realize that their beliefs are precisely that...their beliefs.

Perhaps they are right about you being deceived but wrong to get offended?

On the other hand, perhaps it is you who have been deceived? What gives anyone the right to claim that their belief system is the only way to the Divine? I make no assumptions to that effect.

(off-topic but an opinion)
I agree with JZ Knight's assertion that to believe that the Divine could be offended by the actions of a bunch of carbon-based units in the backwaters of a huge galaxy in the midst of millions of other galaxies is absurd. That is arrogant and presumptuous.
So long as my actions do not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other, it's none of your business what I do - Peter McWilliams