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The Bible Says There Is No God

GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 4:11:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Yea, there is no God. I know not any."
-- Isaiah 44:8
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Mirza
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4/4/2011 4:18:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.
There is a difference between the intended meaning and the perceived meaning.
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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4/4/2011 4:19:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.

mean·ing
"the thing one intends to convey especially by language"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

I'm sure those who claim it's out of context would agree with you.
GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 4:22:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:20:15 PM, Denote wrote:
Why would you even make this, by the way?...

Because it's proof that God does not exist.

.
.
.
.
.

J/k. I just thought it was a funny passage or perhaps it could be trying to tell us something.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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4/4/2011 4:26:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:22:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/4/2011 4:20:15 PM, Denote wrote:
Why would you even make this, by the way?...

Because it's proof that God does not exist.

.
.
.
.
.

J/k. I just thought it was a funny passage or perhaps it could be trying to tell us something.

Lol...
Ore_Ele
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4/4/2011 5:18:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:11:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"Yea, there is no God. I know not any."
-- Isaiah 44:8

lol, in order to accept it as a given truth (by itself with no other evidence), we must accept that the bible is a given truth.

This is like saying "God appeared to me, and told me that there is no God."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/4/2011 5:22:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

I think Geo is making fun of people who use out of context quotes to prove something that the text isn't even saying.

Something both Christians and non-believers seem to do so well.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PARADIGM_L0ST
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4/4/2011 6:49:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.:

If it's out of context then there's nothing left to discuss. Anyone can take an excerpt and create a false dichotomy.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 7:15:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 6:49:25 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.:

If it's out of context then there's nothing left to discuss.

False. All Bible quotes are out of context by definition because you can't quote the whole Bible. There is nothing inherently fallacious about being out of context.

Anyone can take an excerpt and create a false dichotomy.

What false dichotomy was even presented and how is this even relevant?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/4/2011 7:25:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Geo be trollin'
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
PARADIGM_L0ST
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4/4/2011 7:26:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If it's out of context then there's nothing left to discuss.

False. All Bible quotes are out of context by definition because you can't quote the whole Bible. There is nothing inherently fallacious about being out of context.:

Are you comparing an excerpt to an entire book or a passage? That's extremely disingenuous.

I'm sure I can take Buddha out of context all day long, and by your own rationale you'll have no argument against it.

Anyone can take an excerpt and create a false dichotomy.

What false dichotomy was even presented and how is this even relevant?:

You present the dilemma that God is saying no God exists (including himself) which would be silly for obvious reasons. Does that make any sense or is the passage actually reiterating what it states throughout the bible -- that there is no God but YHWH?

Context is important

http://urlybits.com...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 7:52:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 7:26:27 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
If it's out of context then there's nothing left to discuss.

False. All Bible quotes are out of context by definition because you can't quote the whole Bible. There is nothing inherently fallacious about being out of context.:

Are you comparing an excerpt to an entire book or a passage? That's extremely disingenuous.

I'm not comparing anything. I'm just saying that all quotes from the Bible are taken out of the context of the whole Bible.

I'm sure I can take Buddha out of context all day long, and by your own rationale you'll have no argument against it.

Again, all I said was that out of context isn't inherently fallacious. I didn't say that it's never fallacious.

Anyone can take an excerpt and create a false dichotomy.

What false dichotomy was even presented and how is this even relevant?:

You present the dilemma that God is saying no God exists (including himself) which would be silly for obvious reasons.

Wow. You don't know what a "false dichotomy" is. Let me show you: "a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...

What you mean to say is a "contradiction."

Does that make any sense or is the passage actually reiterating what it states throughout the bible -- that there is no God but YHWH?

Context is important

Noticed that I conceded from the beginning that it's out of context, but that it's possible to argue that it means what it appears. I never said the contrary couldn't be true.

Now, if you are to look at this statement analytically and in context of the full passage, indeed a case can be made that it means what it appears to say.

"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. (A) Is there a God beside me? Yea, (B) there is no God; (C) I know not any." -- Isaiah 44:8

Syllogism demonstrating the Bibles refutation of God's existence:

(A) Identifies God as the speaker and asks if there is a God besides himself.

(B) Affirms there is no God. This is an absolute statement which does not leave room for any God. It explicitly says there is NO God.

(C) Further affirms assertion (B) and clarifies that he knows "not any" God.

(D) God knows himself.

(E) Given (B), there is no God, and given (C) God negates his own existence because he knows himself, yet claims "I know not any" God who exists.

Conclusion: No God, including Yahweh, exists.

Indeed, the verse in complete context of the passage refutes his own existence after a dialectal, logical analysis.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/4/2011 7:56:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Repost for clarity:

"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. (A) Is there a God beside me? Yea, (B) there is no God; (C) I know not any." -- Isaiah 44:8

Syllogism demonstrating the Bibles refutation of God's existence:

(A) Identifies God as the speaker and asks if there is a God besides himself.

(B) Affirms there is no God. This is an absolute statement which does not leave room for any God. It explicitly says there is NO God.

(C) Further affirms assertion (B) and clarifies that he knows "not any" God.

(D) God knows himself.

(E) Given (B), there is no God, and given (C) God negates his own existence because he knows himself, yet claims "I know not any" God who exists.

Conclusion: No God, including Yahweh, exists.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/4/2011 8:08:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Again, all I said was that out of context isn't inherently fallacious. I didn't say that it's never fallacious. :

Great, that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

You present the dilemma that God is saying no God exists (including himself) which would be silly for obvious reasons.

Wow. You don't know what a "false dichotomy" is. Let me show you: "a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options. What you mean to say is a "contradiction:

I know what I mean and I mean what I say. You are presenting a false dichotomy because only two options can be explored. Either God said that there are no Gods (which is retarded for obvious reasons) or that it's simply not factually true. The answer is pigeonholed to choose from mutually exclusive ideas.

Noticed that I conceded from the beginning that it's out of context, but that it's possible to argue that it means what it appears. I never said the contrary couldn't be true.:

Okay let's play by your rules. Here's a re-quote of your statement

"Noticed that I conceded from the beginning that it's out of context"

Thank you Geo, there's nothing left to discuss. Have a nice day.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 8:22:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 8:08:56 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Again, all I said was that out of context isn't inherently fallacious. I didn't say that it's never fallacious. :

Great, that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Indeed it does. Why? Because the context of what I quoted was controversial so I had to point out that being out of context isn't necessarily a misrespresentation.

You present the dilemma that God is saying no God exists (including himself) which would be silly for obvious reasons.

Wow. You don't know what a "false dichotomy" is. Let me show you: "a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options. What you mean to say is a "contradiction:

I know what I mean and I mean what I say. You are presenting a false dichotomy because only two options can be explored. Either God said that there are no Gods (which is retarded for obvious reasons) or that it's simply not factually true. The answer is pigeonholed to choose from mutually exclusive ideas.

Nice try, but now you are just trying to squirm away from your error. This argument you present here is not the initial claim you made. Here's what you said before introducing this new argument: "You present the dilemma that God is saying no God exists (including himself) which would be silly for obvious reasons."

Also, even granted your new argument explaining this false dichotomy, I never presented a dichotomy to begin with. Also, even if I did, what is the third option?

Noticed that I conceded from the beginning that it's out of context, but that it's possible to argue that it means what it appears. I never said the contrary couldn't be true.:

Okay let's play by your rules. Here's a re-quote of your statement

"Noticed that I conceded from the beginning that it's out of context"

Thank you Geo, there's nothing left to discuss. Have a nice day.

Wow. Those aren't my rules. I repeat: "being out of context isn't necessarily a misrespresentation." I didn't say that out of context can never be a representation.

Sometimes out of context quotes are accurate, sometimes they're not. It depends on if certain important information is left out which could actually change the premise of said quote. If the additional information does nothing to alter the out of context quote, then the quote is not fallacious because it's being out of context doesn't skew the meaning.

Apparently you can't get that through your head.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
PARADIGM_L0ST
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4/4/2011 8:26:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
out of context can never be a representation.:

I appreciate you admitting that you were wrong, Geo.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
tkubok
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4/4/2011 8:39:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 7:15:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
False. All Bible quotes are out of context by definition because you can't quote the whole Bible. There is nothing inherently fallacious about being out of context.

Thats like saying, every quote from any human being, ever, are out of context by definition because you can't quote every word they've ever spoken. Clearly this isnt true, is it?
GeoLaureate8
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4/4/2011 8:45:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 8:26:09 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
out of context can never be a representation.:

I appreciate you admitting that you were wrong, Geo.

Quit playing games and actually address my argument:

GeoLaureate8 said:
I repeat: "being out of context isn't necessarily a misrespresentation." I didn't say that out of context can never be a representation.

Sometimes out of context quotes are accurate, sometimes they're not. It depends on if certain important information is left out which could actually change the premise of said quote. If the additional information does nothing to alter the out of context quote, then the quote is not fallacious because it's being out of context doesn't skew the meaning.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/4/2011 8:49:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 8:39:33 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/4/2011 7:15:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
False. All Bible quotes are out of context by definition because you can't quote the whole Bible. There is nothing inherently fallacious about being out of context.

Thats like saying, every quote from any human being, ever, are out of context by definition because you can't quote every word they've ever spoken. Clearly this isnt true, is it?

False analogy. All I'm saying is that extracting a quote from the Bible is what is known as taking a quote out of context, the context in this case, being the Bible.

And to further expand what I mean, I will reiterate what I told P_L.

GeoLaureate8 said:
I repeat: "being out of context isn't necessarily a misrespresentation." I didn't say that out of context can never be a representation.

Sometimes out of context quotes are accurate, sometimes they're not. It depends on if certain important information is left out which could actually change the premise of said quote. If the additional information does nothing to alter the out of context quote, then the quote is not fallacious because it's being out of context doesn't skew the meaning.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tkubok
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4/4/2011 8:55:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 8:49:46 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/4/2011 8:39:33 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/4/2011 7:15:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
False. All Bible quotes are out of context by definition because you can't quote the whole Bible. There is nothing inherently fallacious about being out of context.

Thats like saying, every quote from any human being, ever, are out of context by definition because you can't quote every word they've ever spoken. Clearly this isnt true, is it?

False analogy. All I'm saying is that extracting a quote from the Bible is what is known as taking a quote out of context, the context in this case, being the Bible.

And to further expand what I mean, I will reiterate what I told P_L.

GeoLaureate8 said:
I repeat: "being out of context isn't necessarily a misrespresentation." I didn't say that out of context can never be a representation.

Sometimes out of context quotes are accurate, sometimes they're not. It depends on if certain important information is left out which could actually change the premise of said quote. If the additional information does nothing to alter the out of context quote, then the quote is not fallacious because it's being out of context doesn't skew the meaning.

Although i dont know why it is a faulty analogy, i think the point i was trying to make was that you can quote from the bible and not have it out of context.
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/4/2011 10:12:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Geo is super trollin'
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Marauder
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4/5/2011 11:24:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.

please give this argument you speak of, where things that we understand the context of still retain there out of context meaning.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
DATCMOTO
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4/6/2011 5:24:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 4:15:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
King James Version btw.

And yes, it's out of context, however, it could be argued that it still retains its meaning.

Anything can be argued.. is your motive 100% for the truth? WHATEVER it is?
The Cross.. the Cross.
kohai
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4/7/2011 11:52:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If anyone is curious, this is the entire verse.

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Obviously, you missed the phrase, "Is there a God BESIDE me?"
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
tkubok
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4/7/2011 12:53:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 11:52:37 AM, kohai wrote:
If anyone is curious, this is the entire verse.

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Obviously, you missed the phrase, "Is there a God BESIDE me?"

Is not God everywhere?