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Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sin

GreatestIam
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4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sins of the flesh?

There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law.

I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church.

Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change.

The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better.
I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays.

I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes.

Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has?

Regards
DL
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/5/2011 9:33:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sins of the flesh?

There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law.



I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church.

Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change.

The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better.
I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays.

I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes.

Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has?

Regards
DL

Fornication-As long as it's consentual, who cares what someone does in the bedroom.
Abortion-I personally love abortion.
Prostitution-It's their body they can do what they want with it.
The unwed mothers and infidelity thing kind of make sense though.
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: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/5/2011 9:37:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sins of the flesh?

There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law.



I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church.

Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change.

The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better.
I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays.

I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes.

Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has?

Regards
DL

By "Better handled", youre talking about how the Muslims stone women for being adulterous?

The only reason why that works is because people are more fearful. If Adultery became punishable by death in the USA, you better believe that the percentage of adultery would go down in a heartbeat. But i dont believe this to be a viable option, irrespective of whether or not this decreases adultery/abortion rates. Im pro life myself, but i would never outlaw abortion by penalty of death or ANY punishment, not even fines.

Its not better, or good at all. Its worse.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/5/2011 9:38:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sins of the flesh?

There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law.



I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church.

Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change.

The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better.
I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays.

I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes.

Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has?

Regards
DL

Or are you just trolling? I cant tell, sometimes the religious seem so serious about the most ridiculous things.....
boredinclass
Posts: 13
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4/5/2011 10:42:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The people of the middle east are just now reaching their own form of the renaissance, to suggest adopting their moral code is basically putting us about 700 years in the past.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/5/2011 10:47:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
He who is without sin, cast the first stone, yo.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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4/6/2011 5:03:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sins of the flesh?

There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law.



I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church.

Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change.

The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better.
I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays.

I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes.

Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has?

Regards
DL

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.


Romans 6:14
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
The Cross.. the Cross.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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4/6/2011 5:37:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I love your sarcasem
Some never seen pics of sharia law hanging kids and choping of kis hands might not be aware your sarcastic..!!

Muhammad...Said Allah hates those who don't accept Islam.(Qur'an 30:4, 3:32, 22:38)Jesus...Said God loves everyone.(John 3:16)muhamud"I have been commanded to fightagainst people till they testify that thereis no god but Allah, and that Muhammadis the messenger of Allah"(Muslim 1:33)jesus"He who lives by the swordwill die by the sword."(Matthew 26:52)muhamudStoned women for adultery.(Muslim 4206)jesus"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."(John 8:7)muhamudPermitted stealing from unbelievers.(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)jesus"Thou shalt not steal."(Matthew 19:18)muhamudPermitted lying.(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)jesus"Thou shalt not bear false witness."(Matthew 19:18)muhamudOwned and traded slaves.(Sahih Muslim 3901)jesusNeither owned nor traded slaves.muhamudBeheaded 800 Jewish men and boys.(Sahih Muslim 4390)jesusBeheaded no one.muhamudMurdered those who insulted him,even kids.(Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)jesusPreached forgiveness.(Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)muhamud"If then anyone transgressesthe prohibition against you,Transgress ye likewise against him"(Qur'an 2:194)jesus"If someone strikes you on the rightcheek, turn to him the other also."(Matthew 5:39)muhamudJihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold.(Muslim 4645)jesus"Blessed are the peacemakers, forthey will be called Sons of God"(Matthew 5:9)muhamudMarried 13 wives and kept sex slaves.(Bukhari 5:268, Qur'an 33:50)jesusWas celibate.muhamudSlept with a 9-year-old child.(Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)jesusDid not have sex with children.muhamudOrdered the murder of women.(Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)jesusNever harmed a woman.muhamud"O you who believe! Fight those of theunbelievers who are near to youand let them find in you hardness."(Qur'an 3:110)jesusBlessed are the meek, forthey shall inherit the earth."(Matthew 5:5)

At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Should Christianity adopt Islam's laws of sins of the flesh?

There is a fair bit of noise nowadays about Sharia law.



I am not advocating Sharia law for our secular system but have to wonder if Christianity would be well served by adopting Sharia law for the Church.

Islam must change as it enters into secularism. It, like all Abraham based religions, need much improvements to their laws but, in terms of sins of the flesh, they may be above the Christian ethos. Abortion, infidelity, and other inappropriate sexual habits seem to be better handled by Islam. They have gone the wrong way in some of their cults, the so called rape law, exemplifies this, but I think that this is just a blip to their overall theology and will be rejected soon. Their homophobic stance also must change.

The spread and customs of abortion and unwed mothers in the west, as well as the numbers of men who do not do their duty to their children, is not good. Family values, although still healthy in the west, is taking a good beating. Perhaps it is time for Christianity to look at other religious systems including Islam, and adapt what it and others do to Christian families, if they find the new system better.
I would think that such a move would also be a good time for Christianity to redress their shameful religious discrimination and denigration of Gays.

I did not bother with statistics as I think that what I have said is well recognized as fact. The U S situation is well known. In this O P, I would include fornication, infidelity, prostitution, unwed mothers and abortion. Homosexuality, I do not consider as inappropriate sex but know that it will be expressed by the homophobes.

Should we recognize this better part of Islam, in terms of dealing with sins of the flesh, or should Christianity just continue with the dismal record that it presently has?

Regards
DL
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/6/2011 6:15:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Honestly, Christians would be far more respected in a true Islamic state than in a secular one. Their faith is so mocked that comics about it are everywhere. It is shameful.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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4/6/2011 10:39:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 9:33:54 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, :
Fornication-As long as it's consentual, who cares what someone does in the bedroom.
Abortion-I personally love abortion.
Prostitution-It's their body they can do what they want with it.
The unwed mothers and infidelity thing kind of make sense though.

You love the idea of us killing potential humans. Ok.

Do you really believe that the majority of prostitutes want to be where they are? Some for sure. Call girls perhaps. But rank and file hookers? Look again for the first time.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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4/6/2011 10:47:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 9:37:44 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

By "Better handled", youre talking about how the Muslims stone women for being adulterous?

The only reason why that works is because people are more fearful. If Adultery became punishable by death in the USA, you better believe that the percentage of adultery would go down in a heartbeat. But i dont believe this to be a viable option, irrespective of whether or not this decreases adultery/abortion rates. Im pro life myself, but i would never outlaw abortion by penalty of death or ANY punishment, not even fines.

Its not better, or good at all. Its worse.

How many does the west abort as compared to the number that Islam beheads.

You know there would be adjustment to policy and we are not about to adopt that law. Do not be so uncaring about the potential humans that we abort by the hundreds of thousand.

Stoning or beheading for adultery would not become common. We are Christian nations and Christianity has many instances where it is supposed to stone people. Including just disrespecting parents. Actually Christianity has more barbarism than Islam does.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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4/6/2011 10:50:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 10:42:18 PM, boredinclass wrote:
The people of the middle east are just now reaching their own form of the renaissance, to suggest adopting their moral code is basically putting us about 700 years in the past.

Ignoring the benefits of their systems ensures that millions of human zygotes will be killed.

With that kind of future ahead of us, perhaps looking at the past would help.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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4/6/2011 10:54:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
banker

Are you aware of how many places in scripture we are told to kill people?
Even for just disrespecting parents.

Dying zygotes are watching us play the us and them game while they die.
Keep playing your game. God tribe go.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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4/6/2011 10:57:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 6:15:55 AM, Mirza wrote:
Honestly, Christians would be far more respected in a true Islamic state than in a secular one. Their faith is so mocked that comics about it are everywhere. It is shameful.

You are likely correct but then, how worthy would that respect be coming from a religion based on miracles, magic and fantasy. It is like one fool respecting another fool.

Regards
DL
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/6/2011 12:13:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:47:14 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 4/5/2011 9:37:44 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

By "Better handled", youre talking about how the Muslims stone women for being adulterous?

The only reason why that works is because people are more fearful. If Adultery became punishable by death in the USA, you better believe that the percentage of adultery would go down in a heartbeat. But i dont believe this to be a viable option, irrespective of whether or not this decreases adultery/abortion rates. Im pro life myself, but i would never outlaw abortion by penalty of death or ANY punishment, not even fines.

Its not better, or good at all. Its worse.

How many does the west abort as compared to the number that Islam beheads.

What does this have to do with anything? I mean, how many stillborns and natural abortions are there, compared to the number that are aborted manually?

You know there would be adjustment to policy and we are not about to adopt that law. Do not be so uncaring about the potential humans that we abort by the hundreds of thousand.

As I told you before, im pro life. So thank you for ignoring that.

But the problem with your argument, is that I dont believe that Adulterers should be stoned to death, or receive any punishment at all. I mean, how many wives did King David have? How many wives did Muhammad have? I dont see a difference between polygamy and adultery.

Stoning or beheading for adultery would not become common. We are Christian nations and Christianity has many instances where it is supposed to stone people. Including just disrespecting parents. Actually Christianity has more barbarism than Islam does.

Sure. But how many nations with christians still practce that? Dont be shy, please, do tell.


Regards
DL

Sincerely,
Tkubok
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/6/2011 12:21:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Christian ethics are just as harsh as Islams.

Stone your neighbor who mows the lawn on Sunday? Really? It doesn't get much worse than that, not to mention senseless.

Or how about

Release vicious bears on children who mock the bald.

Kill your own child if he curses you. That's according to Jesus btw.

And yes, that's all in the Bible, so to suggest Islam has harsher laws, think again!!!!!!!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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4/6/2011 5:20:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 12:13:32 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/6/2011 10:47:14 AM, :
Sure. But how many nations with christians still practce that? Dont be shy, please, do tell.


Regards
DL



Sincerely,
Tkubok

If all you are going to think about is the extremes that no one practices, the conversation is pointless.
I want to talk Islam rank and file and you are thinking suicide bombers.

See ya.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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4/6/2011 5:22:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 12:21:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Christian ethics are just as harsh as Islams.

Stone your neighbor who mows the lawn on Sunday? Really? It doesn't get much worse than that, not to mention senseless.

Or how about

Release vicious bears on children who mock the bald.

Kill your own child if he curses you. That's according to Jesus btw.

And yes, that's all in the Bible, so to suggest Islam has harsher laws, think again!!!!!!!

Another who will only talk ancient history that does not happen today.

See ya.

Regards
DL
banker
Posts: 1,370
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4/6/2011 5:25:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
is this what scriptures say.? Then why don't you convert to christianity? Is it not the same anyway.?

Well.? How come only muslim judges find in quran the orde to hang kids for bieng gay.?

Would you like to have you beheaded for suggesting to convered to christianity.? This is what sharia orders..!!

How hypocritical..! If you like your reccomendation how come you don't honor it..?

Now if you don't value life you will embrace human sacrifice idols and islamic moon cults.! Of curse you will.!

Some might confuse human sacrificing in form of teror as a conflict like in kashmire,chachnia,sudan,israel,labonan,indnisia,nigiria. Where infidels are painted as cuasing conflict in order to sacrifice them and offer their blood for moon idol allah..!!

Well if there is no value in life islamic cellebrating the dead of our 3000 victoms of 911 by dancing in streets in iran labonan siria palastine pakistan..!!

If there is no value of life there is muslims suggesting hanging kids who are gay..!

If there is no value of life its worse to be gay then to hang girls who are rape victims..!!

If you would value life you would. Find that a humen sacreficing cult advocatin honor kiling for a father to kill his doughter is cruel..!!

Life of women has a value and its not to be a secrifice for your crime fighting inititives..!
At 4/6/2011 10:54:57 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
banker

Are you aware of how many places in scripture we are told to kill people?
Even for just disrespecting parents.



Dying zygotes are watching us play the us and them game while they die.
Keep playing your game. God tribe go.

Regards
DL
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/6/2011 5:47:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 5:20:23 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
If all you are going to think about is the extremes that no one practices, the conversation is pointless.
I want to talk Islam rank and file and you are thinking suicide bombers.

See ya.

Regards
DL

Yeah, because we all know that suicide bombers and stoning adulterers no longer exist in the middle east.

So what, are you just trying to get out of arguing, because you know you've failed? Are you trying to hide your shame and embarrassment of trying to defend such medieval stone-age beliefs?

If so, then yes. See ya.

Sincerely,
Tkubok
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/6/2011 5:53:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:39:14 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 4/5/2011 9:33:54 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/5/2011 9:09:41 PM, :
Fornication-As long as it's consentual, who cares what someone does in the bedroom.
Abortion-I personally love abortion.
Prostitution-It's their body they can do what they want with it.
The unwed mothers and infidelity thing kind of make sense though.

You love the idea of us killing potential humans. Ok.:
Do you really believe that the majority of prostitutes want to be where they are? Some for sure. Call girls perhaps. But rank and file hookers? Look again for the first time.:
Regards
DL

I don't actually love it but I agree with the woman's right to choose. And if you're so against killing potential humans then are you for prohibiting masturbation or periods? And as to prostitution, I do not believe in coercion, if a woman or man wants to have sex with someone for money then what gves anyone the right to tell them they can't?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
spiritislife
Posts: 94
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4/6/2011 10:40:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 6:15:55 AM, Mirza wrote:
Honestly, Christians would be far more respected in a true Islamic state than in a secular one. Their faith is so mocked that comics about it are everywhere. It is shameful.:

Ha! Show me a real time example of Christians being 'respected' and treated equally for their beliefs in 'true' Islamic state like Saudi Arabia - or in Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, Somalia, the Sudan and other Muslim majority areas today? There is not even one. Only oppression and second class citizen status awaits Christians in an Islamic state - there is no mutual respect or equality amongst Muslims and Christians living under Sharia Law.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/7/2011 2:16:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:40:52 PM, spiritislife wrote:
At 4/6/2011 6:15:55 AM, Mirza wrote:
Honestly, Christians would be far more respected in a true Islamic state than in a secular one. Their faith is so mocked that comics about it are everywhere. It is shameful.:

Ha! Show me a real time example of Christians being 'respected' and treated equally for their beliefs in 'true' Islamic state like Saudi Arabia - or in Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, Somalia, the Sudan and other Muslim majority areas today? There is not even one. Only oppression and second class citizen status awaits Christians in an Islamic state - there is no mutual respect or equality amongst Muslims and Christians living under Sharia Law.
You will not debate anything formally so I am not obligated to respond to this nonsense.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/7/2011 2:27:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 12:13:32 PM, tkubok wrote:
But the problem with your argument, is that I dont believe that Adulterers should be stoned to death, or receive any punishment at all. I mean, how many wives did King David have? How many wives did Muhammad have? I dont see a difference between polygamy and adultery.
With polygamy, who says you have to lie to your wife? In my religion, if she asks you if you want to marry someone else, you are not allowed to lie. If she wants you to only marry her, it is can be applied to the marriage contract and polygamy is not allowed for the man during such a marriage. Adultery is the violation of an oath between two people, it is not agreed upon (definitely not in my religion), and it is not comparable to consensus between the spouses whatsoever. There are quite a lot of pious women who permit their husbands marrying other women if those women are lost in life and need someone to take care of them. That is beautiful. But no pious women want to let their husband make use of his lusts by violating a bond between himself and his wife.
tkubok
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4/7/2011 6:11:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 2:27:13 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/6/2011 12:13:32 PM, tkubok wrote:
But the problem with your argument, is that I dont believe that Adulterers should be stoned to death, or receive any punishment at all. I mean, how many wives did King David have? How many wives did Muhammad have? I dont see a difference between polygamy and adultery.
With polygamy, who says you have to lie to your wife? In my religion, if she asks you if you want to marry someone else, you are not allowed to lie. If she wants you to only marry her, it is can be applied to the marriage contract and polygamy is not allowed for the man during such a marriage. Adultery is the violation of an oath between two people, it is not agreed upon (definitely not in my religion), and it is not comparable to consensus between the spouses whatsoever. There are quite a lot of pious women who permit their husbands marrying other women if those women are lost in life and need someone to take care of them. That is beautiful. But no pious women want to let their husband make use of his lusts by violating a bond between himself and his wife.

With adultery, who says you have to lie to your wife, either? Isn't sex outside of marriage, despite already having a wife, the textbook definition for adultery?

Can I ask, what if a wife says that she will allow polygamy before they get married, but some time later in life, the wife changes her mind? Can she still force her husband not to marry anyone else besides her?
Mirza
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4/7/2011 6:42:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:11:41 AM, tkubok wrote:
With adultery, who says you have to lie to your wife, either?
Then there is no universally recognized oath which includes essential aspects of marriage.

Isn't sex outside of marriage, despite already having a wife, the textbook definition for adultery?
Married adultery, yes. But if you marry more wives you are not adulterating.

Can I ask, what if a wife says that she will allow polygamy before they get married, but some time later in life, the wife changes her mind? Can she still force her husband not to marry anyone else besides her?
I do not feel qualified to answer this. I do not know whether or not the marriage contract can actually be edited the way you propose it, but it is more correct to say that it can be renewed. But I believe this applies if there is no confusion that the marriage was invalid in the first place. Nonetheless, if a woman does not want a man to marry another wife, but she does not tell her and still marries another one, then he is obliged to tell her the truth whenever she asks. If he lies and she cannot bear it, she is allowed to seek divorce. So she has various ways of either not permitting her husband marrying other women, or not dealing with him anymore if he is dishonest.
tkubok
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4/7/2011 7:48:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:42:06 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:11:41 AM, tkubok wrote:
With adultery, who says you have to lie to your wife, either?
Then there is no universally recognized oath which includes essential aspects of marriage.

No, jut because its uncommon, doesn't mean we don't have universally recognized oaths of marriage.

Isn't sex outside of marriage, despite already having a wife, the textbook definition for adultery?
Married adultery, yes. But if you marry more wives you are not adulterating.

Sure, but what does that have to do with the fact that adultery and polygamy are essentially the same?
Can I ask, what if a wife says that she will allow polygamy before they get married, but some time later in life, the wife changes her mind? Can she still force her husband not to marry anyone else besides her?
I do not feel qualified to answer this. I do not know whether or not the marriage contract can actually be edited the way you propose it, but it is more correct to say that it can be renewed. But I believe this applies if there is no confusion that the marriage was invalid in the first place. Nonetheless, if a woman does not want a man to marry another wife, but she does not tell her and still marries another one, then he is obliged to tell her the truth whenever she asks. If he lies and she cannot bear it, she is allowed to seek divorce. So she has various ways of either not permitting her husband marrying other women, or not dealing with him anymore if he is dishonest.

Okay.
Mirza
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4/7/2011 7:53:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:48:25 AM, tkubok wrote:
No, jut because its uncommon, doesn't mean we don't have universally recognized oaths of marriage.
Then it is fornication.

Sure, but what does that have to do with the fact that adultery and polygamy are essentially the same?
One is violation of an oath which says that you are truthful to your wife. If polygamy is outside marriage, it is also adultery. But if both parts agree on it, it is not adultery, because it is within marriage.
tkubok
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4/7/2011 8:10:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:53:33 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/7/2011 7:48:25 AM, tkubok wrote:
No, jut because its uncommon, doesn't mean we don't have universally recognized oaths of marriage.
Then it is fornication.

Yes, it is, to which I'm also pretty sure that almost every married couple has engaged before they were married.

I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with fornication, nor. Do I see the point of your briinging it up. What about fornication, exactly, has to do with our discussion?

Sure, but what does that have to do with the fact that adultery and polygamy are essentially the same?
One is violation of an oath which says that you are truthful to your wife. If polygamy is outside marriage, it is also adultery. But if both parts agree on it, it is not adultery, because it is within marriage.

Again, who said that adultery must necessarily mean lying to your wife?

So if you are married to one lady, but are having sex with another with whom you are not married to, but your wife knows and has given her thumbs up with it, is it still adultery to you?
Mirza
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4/7/2011 8:21:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 8:10:15 AM, tkubok wrote:
Yes, it is, to which I'm also pretty sure that almost every married couple has engaged before they were married.
Not true.

I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with fornication, nor. Do I see the point of your briinging it up. What about fornication, exactly, has to do with our discussion?
If a married person is polygamous, and his unmarried loved has sex with him, then he is fornicating with her because he is polygamous outside the frames of marriage, hence the case falls into fornication, hereby into married adultery because he has not married the other woman. And Islam forbids fornication for Muslims.

Again, who said that adultery must necessarily mean lying to your wife?
If it does not, then it is still fornication, hereby married fornication/adultery.

So if you are married to one lady, but are having sex with another with whom you are not married to, but your wife knows and has given her thumbs up with it, is it still adultery to you?
Yes. You are married to one wife, and fornicate with another woman. It belongs to the category of fornication, but more precisely married fornication.