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I am going to church tonight

lovelife
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4/6/2011 10:43:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I will assume a youth gathering cult like thingy.
So any questions that I should ask?
Should I ask why the first sin was knowledge, and yet the only way to be saved is to not only know this knowledge, but to accept it, live by it, and repent for it?
Should I make marks of places in the bible where it condemns not only you for your sins, but your children, their children, etc?
Should I ask why polygamy isn't allowed by the churh anymore, even tho the bible never outlawed it?
Should I ask why we should love and accept who we are, and what we look like, if our body is so much a shame that we have to cover it or else we are shameful, and sinful?

I want a list of stuff to ask, that I can review and ask if I feel like it, or if the situation occurs. Other than the guy that invited me, and his friend that's giving me a ride, I most likely will never see any of these people again.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/6/2011 10:46:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Don't make up a list, that is silly.

have a few questions in mind that you want to ask, and then let the answers to those questions create more questions.

Also, I wouldn't expect to get any intelligent answers. Most Christians are terrible theologians. Even then church leaders.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
belle
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4/6/2011 10:48:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
just be nice. your average person (christian OR atheist) doesn't want a theological debate, they just wanna hang out and have a good time. if you must ask questions, pick open ended ones that don't sound like thinly veiled attacks... you'll get more answers that way :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
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4/6/2011 10:49:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:46:59 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Don't make up a list, that is silly.

have a few questions in mind that you want to ask, and then let the answers to those questions create more questions.


Also, I wouldn't expect to get any intelligent answers. Most Christians are terrible theologians. Even then church leaders.

Well I mean like notes, cause when I'm nervous I often forget just how curious I am.
I don't expect any good answers, I expect to try to get some of the kids there to think for themselves. Whether they leave the church or not, at least research it, and make an informed choice.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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4/6/2011 10:51:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:48:54 AM, belle wrote:
just be nice. your average person (christian OR atheist) doesn't want a theological debate, they just wanna hang out and have a good time.

I forget that often. I don't have many friends, and the ones I do have I often debate with, tho rarely its formal.

if you must ask questions, pick open ended ones that don't sound like thinly veiled attacks... you'll get more answers that way :P

I'll try to remember. I wonder if I can take my laptop to record the whole thing. I'll just tell him that I have short term memory loss, so I need to make sure not to forget anything
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/6/2011 11:06:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, don't ask questions that are like thinly veiled attacks.

Also, don't get frustrated.

There is this one person I know in that crazy place called the real world who asks me all these god/religion questions, talks to me as if I'm the representative of atheism or something.. Then gets frustrated at my answers and runs off.

Also, walk into it with an open mind I say. Be a bit slower to judge. Look around, absorb information.

That said, if this is meant to be a fun occasion, you are probably going to do little more than alienate yourself if you start asking religious questions. Really depends on how tactful you are, though.

Then again, I'm sure there are other things that will go on over there that will make you feel alienated. Hah.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
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4/6/2011 11:08:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:43:55 AM, lovelife wrote:
I will assume a youth gathering cult like thingy.
So any questions that I should ask?
Should I ask why the first sin was knowledge, and yet the only way to be saved is to not only know this knowledge, but to accept it, live by it, and repent for it?
Should I make marks of places in the bible where it condemns not only you for your sins, but your children, their children, etc?
Should I ask why polygamy isn't allowed by the churh anymore, even tho the bible never outlawed it?
Should I ask why we should love and accept who we are, and what we look like, if our body is so much a shame that we have to cover it or else we are shameful, and sinful?

I want a list of stuff to ask, that I can review and ask if I feel like it, or if the situation occurs. Other than the guy that invited me, and his friend that's giving me a ride, I most likely will never see any of these people again.

First off, the first sin wasn't knowledge, it was disobedience. Asking a question like you proposed is only going to make you look like some foolish atheist attack dog.

Like belle said, most of these are just excuses for kids to hang out, maybe spend 5 minutes talking about God, and 115 minutes talking about whatever else. Part of the reason I never really liked them.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:16:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
yeah I know its all to socialize with people that never really thought about their religion, but wear it like its something to be proud of. I'm not going in to attack anyone, but to get others thinking. Hopefully. I really don't give a rat's @ss if any of them decide to stop being christian, I just want people to think about their religion.

....kinda like my friend that planned to go in with a gun and say she was going to kill everyone that was a true christian, and then lock those that left out and banish them from that church.
Its ridiculous. Only I wont risk having the cops called on me. And I don't have a gun.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ore_Ele
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4/6/2011 11:21:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:16:42 AM, lovelife wrote:
yeah I know its all to socialize with people that never really thought about their religion, but wear it like its something to be proud of. I'm not going in to attack anyone, but to get others thinking. Hopefully. I really don't give a rat's @ss if any of them decide to stop being christian, I just want people to think about their religion.


....kinda like my friend that planned to go in with a gun and say she was going to kill everyone that was a true christian, and then lock those that left out and banish them from that church.
Its ridiculous. Only I wont risk having the cops called on me. And I don't have a gun.

That doesn't exactly get them "thinking" about religion, more of a nut with a gun that is only hurting the "strong atheist" cause. Getting people to think about their religion and religious beliefs is all fine and dandy, but doing it with loaded questions is not going to help. What ends up happening is you create extremists that way. They recognize that your questions are nothing but attacks and so will naturally get defensive against you and your questions and so bury themselves in their beliefs, rather than letting their beliefs grow and flourish.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
askbob
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4/6/2011 11:22:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:16:42 AM, lovelife wrote:
....kinda like my friend that planned to go in with a gun and say she was going to kill everyone that was a true christian, and then lock those that left out and banish them from that church.

lolwat
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Heathen
Posts: 183
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4/6/2011 11:23:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Make sure they know just what exactly it is that they believe in, and what that could mean for their future.
"Once an object has been seen, it is impossible to put the mind back to the same condition it was in before it saw it." - Thomas Paine
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:25:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:21:33 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/6/2011 11:16:42 AM, lovelife wrote:
yeah I know its all to socialize with people that never really thought about their religion, but wear it like its something to be proud of. I'm not going in to attack anyone, but to get others thinking. Hopefully. I really don't give a rat's @ss if any of them decide to stop being christian, I just want people to think about their religion.


....kinda like my friend that planned to go in with a gun and say she was going to kill everyone that was a true christian, and then lock those that left out and banish them from that church.
Its ridiculous. Only I wont risk having the cops called on me. And I don't have a gun.

That doesn't exactly get them "thinking" about religion, more of a nut with a gun that is only hurting the "strong atheist" cause. Getting people to think about their religion and religious beliefs is all fine and dandy, but doing it with loaded questions is not going to help. What ends up happening is you create extremists that way. They recognize that your questions are nothing but attacks and so will naturally get defensive against you and your questions and so bury themselves in their beliefs, rather than letting their beliefs grow and flourish.

ehh. That's part of why I need help finding better questions.
I'd actually like to know what your average christian says about them.

All I know is when I was young I asked why exactly people -need- clothes to live, when I've seen plenty of proof otherwise, and the guy was like stumbling on himself, and unable to answer that much and basically told me not to question what god says.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/6/2011 11:25:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:21:33 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/6/2011 11:16:42 AM, lovelife wrote:
yeah I know its all to socialize with people that never really thought about their religion, but wear it like its something to be proud of. I'm not going in to attack anyone, but to get others thinking. Hopefully. I really don't give a rat's @ss if any of them decide to stop being christian, I just want people to think about their religion.


....kinda like my friend that planned to go in with a gun and say she was going to kill everyone that was a true christian, and then lock those that left out and banish them from that church.
Its ridiculous. Only I wont risk having the cops called on me. And I don't have a gun.

That doesn't exactly get them "thinking" about religion, more of a nut with a gun that is only hurting the "strong atheist" cause. Getting people to think about their religion and religious beliefs is all fine and dandy, but doing it with loaded questions is not going to help. What ends up happening is you create extremists that way. They recognize that your questions are nothing but attacks and so will naturally get defensive against you and your questions and so bury themselves in their beliefs, rather than letting their beliefs grow and flourish.

This is very true in a lot of cases.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:26:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:23:49 AM, Heathen wrote:
Make sure they know just what exactly it is that they believe in, and what that could mean for their future.

I wish I had a hijab and a middle eastern sounding accent. Then again, I'd most likely get shot.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Heathen
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4/6/2011 11:28:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:26:13 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 4/6/2011 11:23:49 AM, Heathen wrote:
Make sure they know just what exactly it is that they believe in, and what that could mean for their future.

I wish I had a hijab and a middle eastern sounding accent. Then again, I'd most likely get shot.

Im confused about what this has to do with my post.
"Once an object has been seen, it is impossible to put the mind back to the same condition it was in before it saw it." - Thomas Paine
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/6/2011 11:28:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, just straight up ask them what they believe, and then go from there.

Don't presume that you know what they believe. It's actually kind of uncommon to find 2 Christians who actually believe the same thing.

The common ground they have is that Jesus is their home dawg.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:28:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
also for this site, if you notice, I'm a bit more chill with the theists, the atheists, etc than most others. I tend to attack rarely, and defend at least semi-respectfully.

In rl, I'm even more shy, and alot more polite than I am here. So I most likely wont make a huge scene like someone like, say cody would. I'd expect koopin to be more disrespectful and such in church (I can picture him walking in "I GOT KFC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" or something)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:29:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:28:39 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Yeah, just straight up ask them what they believe, and then go from there.

Don't presume that you know what they believe. It's actually kind of uncommon to find 2 Christians who actually believe the same thing.

The common ground they have is that Jesus is their home dawg.

haha, I was thinking of waiting until they say something that provokes my brain :p
But asking is kinda cool too I guess.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Heathen
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4/6/2011 11:31:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I went to a youth group once, I hated it.

Btw its "A lot" not "alot"
"Once an object has been seen, it is impossible to put the mind back to the same condition it was in before it saw it." - Thomas Paine
Ore_Ele
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4/6/2011 11:33:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:31:12 AM, Heathen wrote:
I went to a youth group once, I hated it.

Btw its "A lot" not "alot"

grammar nazis are still nazis. lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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4/6/2011 11:36:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:29:51 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 4/6/2011 11:28:39 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Yeah, just straight up ask them what they believe, and then go from there.

Don't presume that you know what they believe. It's actually kind of uncommon to find 2 Christians who actually believe the same thing.

The common ground they have is that Jesus is their home dawg.

haha, I was thinking of waiting until they say something that provokes my brain :p
But asking is kinda cool too I guess.

Ask questions to expand your own knowledge, this will allow them to believe that you are asking for your sake, rather than to challange them, so they will be more willing to actually work with you. And by having them answer your questions, that makes them think about things in order get that answer.

Personally, I learned more about calculus by teaching it to others than by it being taught to me. And I've found the same to be true for most sciences as well as religion.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/6/2011 11:37:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you really want to get people to think about their religion, it helps tremendously to understand it.

The church I live at now.. Even though it is still very radical, a couple of years ago it was more fundamentalist. I interact with the leader of the church fairly regularly, and I've noticed that a lot of the things that I say to him influence his preaching and beliefs. Not usually in the way intended but...

While before it was more fundamentalist.. It is now actually a bit more New Agey and Universalist. Definitely a step up if you ask me.

How am I able to do this? I'm very well studied in the bible, and often times my interpretation of scripture is drastically different than that of the orthodox Christian.

My interpretations tend to have a reality filter on them... If I hear something that doesn't make sense, I always try to make sense of it. Mental gymnastics makes for a good brain exercise, as the name would imply.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:43:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:33:48 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/6/2011 11:31:12 AM, Heathen wrote:
I went to a youth group once, I hated it.

Btw its "A lot" not "alot"

grammar nazis are still nazis. lol.

*Grammar Nazis
*Nazis

- :p

I can care about grammar if I want but I think about things that matter :p (@heathen) lol
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:45:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 11:37:11 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
If you really want to get people to think about their religion, it helps tremendously to understand it.

The church I live at now.. Even though it is still very radical, a couple of years ago it was more fundamentalist. I interact with the leader of the church fairly regularly, and I've noticed that a lot of the things that I say to him influence his preaching and beliefs. Not usually in the way intended but...

While before it was more fundamentalist.. It is now actually a bit more New Agey and Universalist. Definitely a step up if you ask me.


How am I able to do this? I'm very well studied in the bible, and often times my interpretation of scripture is drastically different than that of the orthodox Christian.

My interpretations tend to have a reality filter on them... If I hear something that doesn't make sense, I always try to make sense of it. Mental gymnastics makes for a good brain exercise, as the name would imply.

haha I don't think I can get that far well versed within 3 hours :p
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ore_Ele
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4/6/2011 11:46:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
A common question is "why does it seem that the NT has a different moral code than the OT?"
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
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4/6/2011 11:47:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
i do have to ask (even if this is way off topic)
Why when looking for a cookie recipe, I found a recipe card....with "emotional incest" written on the top.
Do we need a recipe for incest, like a dash of uncle carl there, a pinch of cousin nessie there, a handful of mommy, and a touch of sibling? like wtf
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
nonentity
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4/6/2011 12:02:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Like others have mentioned, most people go to these things to have fun... I don't really see the point in going there just to ask questions. Unless someone directly questions your beliefs, it's sort of unnecessary to go there just to do what you're planning. Why not... not go?
Gileandos
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4/6/2011 12:03:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 10:43:55 AM, lovelife wrote:
I will assume a youth gathering cult like thingy.
So any questions that I should ask?
Should I ask why the first sin was knowledge, and yet the only way to be saved is to not only know this knowledge, but to accept it, live by it, and repent for it?
Should I make marks of places in the bible where it condemns not only you for your sins, but your children, their children, etc?
Should I ask why polygamy isn't allowed by the churh anymore, even tho the bible never outlawed it?
Should I ask why we should love and accept who we are, and what we look like, if our body is so much a shame that we have to cover it or else we are shameful, and sinful?

I want a list of stuff to ask, that I can review and ask if I feel like it, or if the situation occurs. Other than the guy that invited me, and his friend that's giving me a ride, I most likely will never see any of these people again.

I can answer any of your questions if you would like.
I agree with Orele in that it is uncommon to find two christians that believe the same thing, but that is entirely depending on the Question, how old they are, and their "walk" with God/learning Curve.
After all we are not all born with complete knowledge.

Hit me with whatever questions give you the most cause for concern.
tkubok
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4/6/2011 12:05:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 12:03:42 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 4/6/2011 10:43:55 AM, lovelife wrote:
I will assume a youth gathering cult like thingy.
So any questions that I should ask?
Should I ask why the first sin was knowledge, and yet the only way to be saved is to not only know this knowledge, but to accept it, live by it, and repent for it?
Should I make marks of places in the bible where it condemns not only you for your sins, but your children, their children, etc?
Should I ask why polygamy isn't allowed by the churh anymore, even tho the bible never outlawed it?
Should I ask why we should love and accept who we are, and what we look like, if our body is so much a shame that we have to cover it or else we are shameful, and sinful?

I want a list of stuff to ask, that I can review and ask if I feel like it, or if the situation occurs. Other than the guy that invited me, and his friend that's giving me a ride, I most likely will never see any of these people again.

I can answer any of your questions if you would like.
I agree with Orele in that it is uncommon to find two christians that believe the same thing, but that is entirely depending on the Question, how old they are, and their "walk" with God/learning Curve.
After all we are not all born with complete knowledge.

Hit me with whatever questions give you the most cause for concern.

Why doesnt God just reveal himself to everyone?
lovelife
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4/6/2011 12:50:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/6/2011 12:05:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/6/2011 12:03:42 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 4/6/2011 10:43:55 AM, lovelife wrote:
I will assume a youth gathering cult like thingy.
So any questions that I should ask?
Should I ask why the first sin was knowledge, and yet the only way to be saved is to not only know this knowledge, but to accept it, live by it, and repent for it?
Should I make marks of places in the bible where it condemns not only you for your sins, but your children, their children, etc?
Should I ask why polygamy isn't allowed by the churh anymore, even tho the bible never outlawed it?
Should I ask why we should love and accept who we are, and what we look like, if our body is so much a shame that we have to cover it or else we are shameful, and sinful?

I want a list of stuff to ask, that I can review and ask if I feel like it, or if the situation occurs. Other than the guy that invited me, and his friend that's giving me a ride, I most likely will never see any of these people again.

I can answer any of your questions if you would like.
I agree with Orele in that it is uncommon to find two christians that believe the same thing, but that is entirely depending on the Question, how old they are, and their "walk" with God/learning Curve.
After all we are not all born with complete knowledge.

Hit me with whatever questions give you the most cause for concern.

Why doesnt God just reveal himself to everyone?

^good question.

Also the book of job....pretty much all of it.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave