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should we adopt sharia law?

banker
Posts: 1,370
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4/13/2011 7:33:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.faithfreedom.org...
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/13/2011 8:19:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/13/2011 7:33:08 AM, banker wrote:
http://www.faithfreedom.org...

Obviously not. The U.S. is a secular country built around secular law. We are not a theocracy and thus adopting religious law would be a violation of the constitution.

Your source kind of made me laugh though a bit. The very idea that allowing Muslims into Europe will cause Europe to fall into Sharia law is ridiculous at best and xenophobic, racist, and intolerant at worst.
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banker
Posts: 1,370
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4/13/2011 4:40:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well I agree it might be racist to be scared of sharia law however hamas was elected irans leadership was elected and new egypt will elect same people..!

A hate cult glorifiying choping kids hands of..! Parents kiling their own kids..!
Hanging kids.!!

This is not racist its what any one valuing life freedom and libirty should guard himself and insure to defand the ones who look out for their freedom
At 4/13/2011 8:19:56 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/13/2011 7:33:08 AM, banker wrote:
http://www.faithfreedom.org...

Obviously not. The U.S. is a secular country built around secular law. We are not a theocracy and thus adopting religious law would be a violation of the constitution.

Your source kind of made me laugh though a bit. The very idea that allowing Muslims into Europe will cause Europe to fall into Sharia law is ridiculous at best and xenophobic, racist, and intolerant at worst.
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/13/2011 5:07:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/13/2011 4:40:42 PM, banker wrote:
Well I agree it might be racist to be scared of sharia law however hamas was elected irans leadership was elected and new egypt will elect same people..!

A hate cult glorifiying choping kids hands of..! Parents kiling their own kids..!
Hanging kids.!!
That's not Shari'a. That's not in the Qur'an. That's not in the authentic narrations of the beloved Prophet. That's not advocated by the Islamic Schools of Jurisprudence. If Shari'a came to more countries and was adapted in its true form, then it would be a blessing. Whoever does not like freedom of religion, thought, protection, etc., does not like Shari'a. Do you? Seems like double-standards.
Gileandos
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4/13/2011 7:38:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/13/2011 5:07:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/13/2011 4:40:42 PM, banker wrote:
Well I agree it might be racist to be scared of sharia law however hamas was elected irans leadership was elected and new egypt will elect same people..!

A hate cult glorifiying choping kids hands of..! Parents kiling their own kids..!
Hanging kids.!!
That's not Shari'a. That's not in the Qur'an. That's not in the authentic narrations of the beloved Prophet. That's not advocated by the Islamic Schools of Jurisprudence. If Shari'a came to more countries and was adapted in its true form, then it would be a blessing. Whoever does not like freedom of religion, thought, protection, etc., does not like Shari'a. Do you? Seems like double-standards.

Can you describe which nation you would consider to be blessed by Sharia law?
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Pakistan
Syria
Iran

I could go on but I cannot think of a country, off the top of my head, that I would call blessed and one that I would want to live in, that would NOT be a Christian Nation.

In fact, I would choose an oppressive atheistic regime like Russia and China before a muslim nation.

Can you define blessed for me?
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/13/2011 8:37:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/13/2011 7:38:15 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 4/13/2011 5:07:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/13/2011 4:40:42 PM, banker wrote:
Well I agree it might be racist to be scared of sharia law however hamas was elected irans leadership was elected and new egypt will elect same people..!

A hate cult glorifiying choping kids hands of..! Parents kiling their own kids..!
Hanging kids.!!
That's not Shari'a. That's not in the Qur'an. That's not in the authentic narrations of the beloved Prophet. That's not advocated by the Islamic Schools of Jurisprudence. If Shari'a came to more countries and was adapted in its true form, then it would be a blessing. Whoever does not like freedom of religion, thought, protection, etc., does not like Shari'a. Do you? Seems like double-standards.

Can you describe which nation you would consider to be blessed by Sharia law?
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Pakistan
Syria
Iran

I could go on but I cannot think of a country, off the top of my head, that I would call blessed and one that I would want to live in, that would NOT be a Christian Nation.

In fact, I would choose an oppressive atheistic regime like Russia and China before a muslim nation.

Can you define blessed for me?

I don't think any nation which rules under oppressive 'divine' law could be described as blessed.
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banker
Posts: 1,370
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4/13/2011 11:09:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Again..? If I like freedom of religion I should like sharia?
Well it clear that you have a point.! But the problem is abvious.! How is it posible ,that such a value so unique to be a foundation and cornerstone to build such a bonavelent and sophisticated contry,should also be used to advocate for a set of laws ordering stoning women and kids.?

Well let's not be novice same idol instructing humen sacrefice to allah will instruct to lie too.
Allah said war is deception and it needs to be used so lies are ok in islam.! Its no doubt that he is fully aware of behadings in saudi and other places he described as blassed! But let's focus on us! How can we deny freedom of religion and lose our principles,or accept sharia law and put our families and kids in danger of islam?

Well.!! The truth is islam is no religion.!
How is a cult advocating a father and brother to kill their doughter a religion?

How could you justify a set of laws ordering a pakistan judge to behead a mother for converting to christianity as a religion.?

I am sure mizra is we'll versed in quran !! But the judges in iran hanging gay kids also are aware of sharia law and if so it orders its a hate cult.!!
A cult devaloping excuses to sacrifice humans to idol allah trough terorisem is not religion...! So we should give freedom of religion to religions not hale cults like islam natzies etc.!: At 4/13/2011 5:07:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/13/2011 4:40:42 PM, banker wrote:
Well I agree it might be racist to be scared of sharia law however hamas was elected irans leadership was elected and new egypt will elect same people..!

A hate cult glorifiying choping kids hands of..! Parents kiling their own kids..!
Hanging kids.!!
That's not Shari'a. That's not in the Qur'an. That's not in the authentic narrations of the beloved Prophet. That's not advocated by the Islamic Schools of Jurisprudence. If Shari'a came to more countries and was adapted in its true form, then it would be a blessing. Whoever does not like freedom of religion, thought, protection, etc., does not like Shari'a. Do you? Seems like double-standards.
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/14/2011 3:27:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/13/2011 7:38:15 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Can you describe which nation you would consider to be blessed by Sharia law?
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Pakistan
Syria
Iran
None fully.

I could go on but I cannot think of a country, off the top of my head, that I would call blessed and one that I would want to live in, that would NOT be a Christian Nation.

In fact, I would choose an oppressive atheistic regime like Russia and China before a muslim nation.
I would rather live peacefully in North Korea today than as a non-Christian in Europe during the Middle Ages. Do you seriously describe the secular countries as Christian?

Can you define blessed for me?
Yes, in this context something that gets brought mercy and justice to it.
spiritislife
Posts: 94
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4/15/2011 4:09:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/14/2011 3:27:35 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/13/2011 7:38:15 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Can you describe which nation you would consider to be blessed by Sharia law?
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Pakistan
Syria
Iran
None fully.

Lol! I guess our friend Mirza cannot find one realtime example around the world of non-Islamic citizens 'blessed' under Sharia Law. The fact is: it is a living hell.

Here is an example of the 'wonders' and 'blessings' for non-musims under Sharia Law....

The Catholic Christian Pakistani, Shabaz Bhatti, the minister of religious minorities, was killed on march 2nd by muslims http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it...

His crime? He was a 'Christian, infidel and blasphemer'. Ohhhh, how just!

I believe this man was truly a modern day Catholic martyr. I am very moved after reading his story.

The scary thing - as this petition sites talks of http://www.thepetitionsite.com... - is that imposing Sharia Law is not some 'radical' or 'extreme' idea within Islam, but a fundamental part of Islam, along with their goal of religious dominance, which Muslims must work towards. Overthrowing the US constitution with Sharia Law is their goal, which is sedition.

Sharia Law must be fought against by the civilized world with all our powers. For starters, muslim immigration should be banned from Europe and the US, before it is too late.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com....

"Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us."
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/15/2011 5:20:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/14/2011 3:27:35 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/13/2011 7:38:15 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Can you describe which nation you would consider to be blessed by Sharia law?
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Pakistan
Syria
Iran
None fully.
Can you describe partially blessed?


I could go on but I cannot think of a country, off the top of my head, that I would call blessed and one that I would want to live in, that would NOT be a Christian Nation.

In fact, I would choose an oppressive atheistic regime like Russia and China before a muslim nation.
I would rather live peacefully in North Korea today than as a non-Christian in Europe during the Middle Ages. Do you seriously describe the secular countries as Christian?

Eh? Strictly speaking everyone everywhere would decide to live peacefully. This does not make sense. To live peacfully in Korea means worship their leader as God... To be any other religion means death.

This statement does not make sense to me, please clarify.
To live peacefully in the Middle Ages would not require conformity. Many other religions existed peacefully. If they became Criminal they were prosecuted.

Also, a pedophile living in America today should not expect to live "peacefully" in America. He is criminal.

Again, the statement does not make sense please clarify.

Can you define blessed for me?
Yes, in this context something that gets brought mercy and justice to it.

Are you saying Justice is not prevelant in the Christian countries today above the Muslim Countries?
Would you state that Christian nations have LESS mercy and Justice than the Islamic ones?
Are you actually claiming that?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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4/16/2011 8:22:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 4:09:08 PM, spiritislife wrote:
Lol! I guess our friend Mirza cannot find one realtime example around the world of non-Islamic citizens 'blessed' under Sharia Law. The fact is: it is a living hell.

Here is an example of the 'wonders' and 'blessings' for non-musims under Sharia Law....

The Catholic Christian Pakistani, Shabaz Bhatti, the minister of religious minorities, was killed on march 2nd by muslims http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it...

His crime? He was a 'Christian, infidel and blasphemer'. Ohhhh, how just!
Who says it is just?

I believe this man was truly a modern day Catholic martyr. I am very moved after reading his story.

The scary thing - as this petition sites talks of http://www.thepetitionsite.com... - is that imposing Sharia Law is not some 'radical' or 'extreme' idea within Islam, but a fundamental part of Islam, along with their goal of religious dominance, which Muslims must work towards. Overthrowing the US constitution with Sharia Law is their goal, which is sedition.

Sharia Law must be fought against by the civilized world with all our powers. For starters, muslim immigration should be banned from Europe and the US, before it is too late.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com....

"Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us."
When you start following Christ then come back to me. What you say would make him condemn your words, I am sure. Keep your hatred out of my discussions.
Mirza
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4/16/2011 8:29:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:20:37 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Can you describe partially blessed?
Sure, take Syria as an example. Not a perfect country, but they have good family values and take life as a pleasure rather than an outdating material.

Eh? Strictly speaking everyone everywhere would decide to live peacefully. This does not make sense. To live peacfully in Korea means worship their leader as God... To be any other religion means death.
Worse than Middle Age Europe?

This statement does not make sense to me, please clarify.
To live peacefully in the Middle Ages would not require conformity. Many other religions existed peacefully. If they became Criminal they were prosecuted.
Yes, until Christians came to eradicate other religious groups. They eradicated Muslims from Spain, Northern Europe from believers of Northern Mythology, and I can name the atrocities for hours to come. You will keep denying it.

Also, a pedophile living in America today should not expect to live "peacefully" in America. He is criminal.
And?

Again, the statement does not make sense please clarify.
Non-Christians in Middle Age Europe were persecuted, hanged, slaughtered, taken every basic human rights from them, and they were considered blasphemers.

And how dare anyone say that non-Christians had their rights in Middle Age Europe when the only accepted religion was Catholicism? How can you say that religions like Islam and Judaism were accepted when not even a branch of Christianity that arose in 1500 was accepted? There was bloodshed between Christian sects, and you think there was peace between the different religious groups? What kind of a history book did you read? A comic?

Are you saying Justice is not prevelant in the Christian countries today above the Muslim Countries?
I am telling you to name one Christian country by law, not population. China is not a Buddhist country because Buddhists are prevalent.

Would you state that Christian nations have LESS mercy and Justice than the Islamic ones?
I would say yes because Christian countries (not nations) do not exist (apart from the Vatican, which only has priests).

Are you actually claiming that?
Are you putting words into my mouth?
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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4/16/2011 8:52:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/13/2011 7:38:15 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 4/13/2011 5:07:38 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/13/2011 4:40:42 PM, banker wrote:
Well I agree it might be racist to be scared of sharia law however hamas was elected irans leadership was elected and new egypt will elect same people..!

A hate cult glorifiying choping kids hands of..! Parents kiling their own kids..!
Hanging kids.!!
That's not Shari'a. That's not in the Qur'an. That's not in the authentic narrations of the beloved Prophet. That's not advocated by the Islamic Schools of Jurisprudence. If Shari'a came to more countries and was adapted in its true form, then it would be a blessing. Whoever does not like freedom of religion, thought, protection, etc., does not like Shari'a. Do you? Seems like double-standards.

Can you describe which nation you would consider to be blessed by Sharia law?
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Pakistan
Syria
Iran

I could go on but I cannot think of a country, off the top of my head, that I would call blessed and one that I would want to live in, that would NOT be a Christian Nation.

In fact, I would choose an oppressive atheistic regime like Russia and China before a muslim nation.

That's your problem. The countries are in some turmoil not because of Sharia law, each one has a different reason for the 'lack of peace'. For one thing, if Sharia law was the reason, there would be a lot of voice of discontent *from* the muslims. I still believe that Quran is the most misinterpreted book.

Can you define blessed for me?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/16/2011 9:01:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/16/2011 8:29:03 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:20:37 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Can you describe partially blessed?
Sure, take Syria as an example. Not a perfect country, but they have good family values and take life as a pleasure rather than an outdating material.

Everyone with partial family values and takes pleasure in life is partially blessed?
What is outdating material?
Wow, I believe that, outside of communism, 95% of countries would fit that very broad definition. I cannot think of one nation that does not have Marriage as a legitimate institution and not restrict entertainment of some sort...
I think America would fit this by the extreme.

I feel your argument fails.... badly.


Eh? Strictly speaking everyone everywhere would decide to live peacefully. This does not make sense. To live peacfully in Korea means worship their leader as God... To be any other religion means death.
Worse than Middle Age Europe?
What is worse? You are making partial assertions.

It is like you state "I love Iran!" I reply by stating more than ancient Egypt???

What the heck does ancient Egypt have to do with it? Should I just make assumptions of what you are referencing? Could they both be deserts? You are not making sense. Please clarify.

I stated
This statement does not make sense to me, please clarify.
To live peacefully in the Middle Ages would not require conformity. Many other religions existed peacefully. If they became Criminal they were prosecuted.
Your Response
Yes, until Christians came to eradicate other religious groups. They eradicated Muslims from Spain, Northern Europe from believers of Northern Mythology, and I can name the atrocities for hours to come. You will keep denying it.

Here is something a bit more relevant but still a baseless assertion.
Lets take this claim but give me specifics. Name one instance where Christianity eradicated Northern Mythology. We will take your base evidence one at a time.

Also give me a specific instance where the Muslims in Spain were "eradicated".


Also, a pedophile living in America today should not expect to live "peacefully" in America. He is criminal.
And?

I see you do not understand what you were saying either?
Again, the statement does not make sense please clarify.
Non-Christians in Middle Age Europe were persecuted, hanged, slaughtered, taken every basic human rights from them, and they were considered blasphemers.

And how dare anyone say that non-Christians had their rights in Middle Age Europe when the only accepted religion was Catholicism? How can you say that religions like Islam and Judaism were accepted when not even a branch of Christianity that arose in 1500 was accepted? There was bloodshed between Christian sects, and you think there was peace between the different religious groups? What kind of a history book did you read? A comic?

There were definitely instances of "religious" intolerance but to take key instances and state "this is European policy" would be clearly distorting the facts.

Can you give me a specific statistical data that supports your conclusion.
As I am tracking it your argument sounds like
1) Jews were persecuted
2) Muslims were persecuted
3)Even Christians were persecuted

Show me percentages, if you can show an argument that has relative numbers that maintains significant portions I will work towards agreement with you.

An argument like this.
Resolution: muslims are highly prone to terrorism and is a criminal religion.
1) Nearly 70% of the population of "moderate" countries agree with Terrorism against the west.
2) 500 million muslims of the projected 1.5 billion muslims are "openly" radical and enforce extreme radical islamic viewpoints. That is one third or 30% of muslims.
3) Radicalization of islam can happen anywhere and unexpectedly (example of the Army base killings by converted muslim fanatic)

This resolution is supported by overwhelming statistics. Number 3 is not enough to make the resolution true. It must include a process of "warrant" with statistical data.

Please encapsulate your argument like the above providing source data to support your conclusion/resolution.
Mirza
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4/21/2011 12:07:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Gileandos,

You are strawmanning me and putting words into my mouth. If you want a debate then challenge me or ask someone else to debate me on whatever of these issues you want to. If you want to debate Shari'a Law then please do, or ask some of the members here you think can do well.
Kinesis
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4/21/2011 12:12:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You guys are all acting as though religion is the only thing that matters in a political system. You can't classify any political system as 'Christian' or 'secular' or 'Muslim' and stop there; they're just one ideological factor among many that go into the structure of a system.
Mirza
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4/21/2011 12:15:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 12:12:07 PM, Kinesis wrote:
You guys are all acting as though religion is the only thing that matters in a political system. You can't classify any political system as 'Christian' or 'secular' or 'Muslim' and stop there; they're just one ideological factor among many that go into the structure of a system.
Yes, but clearly it is Shari'a that asks people to cut the genitals off of females (which happens in Sudan, and not really Pakistan). Obviously only Muslims do such a grievous thing in Sudan, and Christians do no such thing. Honor killings are also advocated by Shari'a since only Muslims act upon them in Pakistan and India, while the Christians and Hindus never do that. Basically, it has nothing to do with culture, but Shari'a only.

See, that statement could be the definition of nonsense.
Kinesis
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4/21/2011 12:30:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree that the actions of Muslims don't necessarily entail that Sharia supports those actions. My understanding is that there are significantly different interpretations of Sharia within Muslim society ranging from extremist to liberal and everything in between. One can assume very little from a society that operates under the label 'Sharia' - though it has been saddled with numerous negative connotations.
Mirza
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4/21/2011 2:16:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 12:30:11 PM, Kinesis wrote:
I agree that the actions of Muslims don't necessarily entail that Sharia supports those actions. My understanding is that there are significantly different interpretations of Sharia within Muslim society ranging from extremist to liberal and everything in between. One can assume very little from a society that operates under the label 'Sharia' - though it has been saddled with numerous negative connotations.
There are various cultural influences on every Islamic society. In Sudan where cutting off female genitals happens, even Christians do such a thing. It is simply due to cultural influences.
Gileandos
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4/21/2011 7:24:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 12:07:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
Gileandos,

You are strawmanning me and putting words into my mouth. If you want a debate then challenge me or ask someone else to debate me on whatever of these issues you want to. If you want to debate Shari'a Law then please do, or ask some of the members here you think can do well.

Feel free to challenge me and we can discuss the resolution.

I am not strawmanning you, I only ask for an example. Please provide statistics and clear examples rather than just assertions.
Gileandos
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4/21/2011 7:27:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 12:12:07 PM, Kinesis wrote:
You guys are all acting as though religion is the only thing that matters in a political system. You can't classify any political system as 'Christian' or 'secular' or 'Muslim' and stop there; they're just one ideological factor among many that go into the structure of a system.

Very good point. I was only addressing Mirza's claims of how bringing Sharia Law to a nation would bring a blessing. I am only addressing the criminality of Sharia Law in any of its forms. I posted those directly and Mirza merely ranted about the crimes of Christian nations.

I do not disagree that many factors influence the conduct of a nation or culture. I think that Islam is one of those negative factors and I proposed as much.
Mirza
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4/21/2011 7:34:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 7:24:25 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Feel free to challenge me and we can discuss the resolution.

I am not strawmanning you, I only ask for an example. Please provide statistics and clear examples rather than just assertions.
This is the resolution: Shari'a Law is barbaric and unjust

Accept?
Gileandos
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4/21/2011 8:24:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 7:34:30 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/21/2011 7:24:25 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Feel free to challenge me and we can discuss the resolution.

I am not strawmanning you, I only ask for an example. Please provide statistics and clear examples rather than just assertions.
This is the resolution: Shari'a Law is barbaric and unjust

Accept?

Lets reword that resolution.
I have not made the claim that Sharia Law is barbaric or unjust.

To argue that resolution you pick out just one element that is "just" and argue ad nauseum. Then we wind up in a semantic debate of what the definition of just is.
You say it is "just" to kill gay people etc...

I have made the claim that Sharia Law is criminal as laid out in both Christian Scriptures and The Constitution of the United States.

I have also made the claim that a Muslim cannot be trusted to give an honest statement of any claim of their religion due to Taqiyya and Kitman.

These religous concepts are clearly used by many of the muslims to "trick" non-muslims in the effort to further the muslim religion and "defeat" non-believers.

I will debate these resolutions;
"Muslim "defenses" of the Islamic religion cannot be trusted due to Taqiyya and Kitman"

"Sharia Law is unconstitutional in the United States"

"Sharia Law has little impact in creating a "Gileandos(Christian) defined culture of Justice" in the Islamic Countries."

Feel free to challenge me on any of those resolutions with three rounds limited and indefinite voting timeframes.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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4/21/2011 9:06:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 12:15:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/21/2011 12:12:07 PM, Kinesis wrote:
You guys are all acting as though religion is the only thing that matters in a political system. You can't classify any political system as 'Christian' or 'secular' or 'Muslim' and stop there; they're just one ideological factor among many that go into the structure of a system.
Yes, but clearly it is Shari'a that asks people to cut the genitals off of females (which happens in Sudan, and not really Pakistan). Obviously only Muslims do such a grievous thing in Sudan, and Christians do no such thing. Honor killings are also advocated by Shari'a since only Muslims act upon them in Pakistan and India, while the Christians and Hindus never do that. Basically, it has nothing to do with culture, but Shari'a only.:

I think we both know that the amount of Christians and/or Hindus that do such things is negligible, if not non-existent. The fact remains that if you personally want Shari'a law implemented, then you need to be prepared for the reality of people's hands being cut off and women buried up to their head and savagely bludgeoned to death with stones.

Aside from the fact that you have no idea which group will take power and oppress the other. For instance, are you a Sunni or a Shi'ite? I mean, in Waziristan and much of Afghanistan, it's against the law to listen to music and fly kites. Why? Because these lunatics have nothing better to do than interpret the Qur'an and Sura in bizarre ways.

You say you want Shari'a. I say, be careful what you wish for... because it just might come true.

At most, what do you have to deal with in a secular culture? Women wearing tight jeans? Basically, things that offend your delicate sensibilities, not honor murders and torture on every street corner. You might have to tolerate seeing homosexuals holding hands once in awhile, and while that might annoy you, I hope it's better than seeing them hanged as public spectacles such as they do in Iran.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Indophile
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4/22/2011 9:18:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 9:06:43 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/21/2011 12:15:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/21/2011 12:12:07 PM, Kinesis wrote:
You guys are all acting as though religion is the only thing that matters in a political system. You can't classify any political system as 'Christian' or 'secular' or 'Muslim' and stop there; they're just one ideological factor among many that go into the structure of a system.
Yes, but clearly it is Shari'a that asks people to cut the genitals off of females (which happens in Sudan, and not really Pakistan). Obviously only Muslims do such a grievous thing in Sudan, and Christians do no such thing. Honor killings are also advocated by Shari'a since only Muslims act upon them in Pakistan and India, while the Christians and Hindus never do that. Basically, it has nothing to do with culture, but Shari'a only.:

I think we both know that the amount of Christians and/or Hindus that do such things is negligible, if not non-existent. The fact remains that if you personally want Shari'a law implemented, then you need to be prepared for the reality of people's hands being cut off and women buried up to their head and savagely bludgeoned to death with stones.

Uh...no. The Hindus do most of the honor killings in India. It's a cultural thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Aside from the fact that you have no idea which group will take power and oppress the other. For instance, are you a Sunni or a Shi'ite? I mean, in Waziristan and much of Afghanistan, it's against the law to listen to music and fly kites. Why? Because these lunatics have nothing better to do than interpret the Qur'an and Sura in bizarre ways.

You say you want Shari'a. I say, be careful what you wish for... because it just might come true.

At most, what do you have to deal with in a secular culture? Women wearing tight jeans? Basically, things that offend your delicate sensibilities, not honor murders and torture on every street corner. You might have to tolerate seeing homosexuals holding hands once in awhile, and while that might annoy you, I hope it's better than seeing them hanged as public spectacles such as they do in Iran.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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4/22/2011 9:33:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Uh...no. The Hindus do most of the honor killings in India. It's a cultural thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org...:

Your link does not mention Hindu's. It specifically states that the phenomena typically occurs in Northern India, consequently on the border of Muslim Pakistan. Secondly, it only mentions honour killings in India. Not all Indians are Hindu. Many, especially those in the north, are Muslim.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Indophile
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4/22/2011 9:46:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:33:04 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Uh...no. The Hindus do most of the honor killings in India. It's a cultural thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org...:

Your link does not mention Hindu's. It specifically states that the phenomena typically occurs in Northern India, consequently on the border of Muslim Pakistan. Secondly, it only mentions honour killings in India. Not all Indians are Hindu. Many, especially those in the north, are Muslim.

It specifically mentioned Punjab and the Rajput culture. I assure you they are not Muslims (in the majority). Muslims are not a majority anywhere in India. The north that you mention has local caste-based councils (known as the khap) that order such killings. It's been going on for a long time and the caste system, which is deeply entrenched in Hindu culture, is the main reason. And it's not like it happens only in villages. There have been cases in the capital city of New Delhi too.

Islam does not divide on the basis of caste. But you know, Muslims in North India follow the caste system. Why? Because it's cultural.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Mirza
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4/22/2011 9:51:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 8:24:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
I will debate these resolutions;
"Muslim "defenses" of the Islamic religion cannot be trusted due to Taqiyya and Kitman"
This is a better resolution: Islam promotes Taqiyya and Kitman.

Please challenge me. You have the burden of proof.

"Sharia Law is unconstitutional in the United States"
I don't care if it is implemented in USA or not.

"Sharia Law has little impact in creating a "Gileandos(Christian) defined culture of Justice" in the Islamic Countries."
What does this even mean?
Mirza
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4/22/2011 10:04:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/21/2011 9:06:43 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I think we both know
No we don't. You think knowledge comes form what your favorite news channel tells you. I choose to believe in something more reasonable.

that the amount of Christians and/or Hindus that do such things is negligible, if not non-existent.
Prove it. Name one credible source which proves that only Muslims in Sudan cut off female genitals. Name one credible source which proves that only Muslims in India act upon honor killings. The fact is that cultural influences play a role, and none of that is special to Muslims.

The fact remains that if you personally want Shari'a law implemented, then you need to be prepared for the reality of people's hands being cut off and women buried up to their head and savagely bludgeoned to death with stones.
Right. So that is like saying if we live in a state of anarchy and chaos is everywhere, we should simply continue to do so because we should not be prepared for "putting people in jail and letting them suffer for justice"? Is that a good argument against implementing justice? I don't think so.

And I have no need of giving strong implementation of Shari'a anywhere. It cannot simply be implemented, and it should not be enforced upon anyone (particularly non-Muslims who are excluded from many of its laws).

Aside from the fact that you have no idea which group will take power and oppress the other. For instance, are you a Sunni or a Shi'ite? I mean, in Waziristan and much of Afghanistan, it's against the law to listen to music and fly kites. Why? Because these lunatics have nothing better to do than interpret the Qur'an and Sura in bizarre ways.
There is a risk in everything. One can support socialism and a socialist leader, until he finds that the leader is a totalitarian nut.

You say you want Shari'a. I say, be careful what you wish for... because it just might come true.
I am not opposing Shari'a, but yes I am careful with what I support. I don't support Shari'a as some extremists interpret it (you know those who take everything seriously and hardly understand humor). Shari'a as it was interpreted by the Prophet is what I support.

At most, what do you have to deal with in a secular culture? Women wearing tight jeans? Basically, things that offend your delicate sensibilities, not honor murders and torture on every street corner. You might have to tolerate seeing homosexuals holding hands once in awhile, and while that might annoy you, I hope it's better than seeing them hanged as public spectacles such as they do in Iran.
Sure, but again I don't care whether USA implements it or not. Could it be good? Perhaps. But it is hard to implement it and as a Muslim I have no problem obeying the laws of the secular countries, as long as they do not violate my own principles. If a woman wears jeans then that is her case. I have a moral opposition to it, but I don't lose respect for that woman.
Mirza
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4/22/2011 10:05:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:33:04 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Uh...no. The Hindus do most of the honor killings in India. It's a cultural thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org...:

Your link does not mention Hindu's. It specifically states that the phenomena typically occurs in Northern India, consequently on the border of Muslim Pakistan. Secondly, it only mentions honour killings in India. Not all Indians are Hindu. Many, especially those in the north, are Muslim.
http://www.time.com...