Total Posts:96|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Monotheists, I'm calling you out!

tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 5:31:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:29:01 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Why exclude polytheists?

They generally don't have a policy of conversion... Feel free to contribute, though you already know I agree with you on a lot of points FREEDO.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:00:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:51:34 AM, Mirza wrote:
Maybe you can follow this for a while: http://www.debate.org... If you have time of course.

Certainly. :)
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Fatihah
Posts: 7,742
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:06:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.

You're kidding right? We discussed this for over 10 pages and when I challenged you to debate it, you rejected it.
Try again.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:40:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.

LMFAO! He's a broken record! I bet 99% of his posts say exact same thing! LOL!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 8:35:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:06:08 AM, tvellalott wrote:

You're kidding right? We discussed this for over 10 pages and when I challenged you to debate it, you rejected it.

Do an askbob and issue the challene and link to it every time this nonsense is posted. I think you can just reactivate it with a few clicks.
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 12:04:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

1) see the debates and forums on this website. (I have recently put up in this forum a topic titled "proof of religion" in the course of which I gave some evidence for my religion. Also in the debate section of this web site I am in the midst of debate and there have been debates previous on the existence of god.)
2)There are some websites, the best of which I know of is http://www.dovidgottlieb.com... . (I don't know how to make links so I'm not shore this will work.) He is a former professor of philosophy at john Hopkins university.
3)pray sincerest to god if there is one ask him to please help you find the truth.
4)Try hard to be objective. Remember be a judge not a lawyer. Nothing can be proven 100%. And Pascal's wager I believe a good point its not evidence but combined with evidence, It makes a good point.
If I can be of any help in any way it would be my pleasure.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 12:23:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.

intelligent species? what about mentally deficient people or how about dolphins? they're smart why don't they worship they're creator? oh right they do flips for it right?
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 5:21:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 12:04:29 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

1) see the debates and forums on this website. (I have recently put up in this forum a topic titled "proof of religion" in the course of which I gave some evidence for my religion. Also in the debate section of this web site I am in the midst of debate and there have been debates previous on the existence of god.)

I've reviewed a lot of the religious debates; I read a lot of the philosophical arguments; I've watched live religious debates on youtube. The only conclusion I've come to is outwardly saying that there is no God is somewhat arrogant when I'm preaching doubt and reason.

2)There are some websites, the best of which I know of is http://www.dovidgottlieb.com... . (I don't know how to make links so I'm not shore this will work.) He is a former professor of philosophy at john Hopkins university.

I'll have a look.

3)pray sincerest to god if there is one ask him to please help you find the truth.

Surely I can't fake the sincerity? I mean, I can't pray to God without a smirk on my face because I think it's ridiculous...

4)Try hard to be objective. Remember be a judge not a lawyer. Nothing can be proven 100%. And Pascal's wager I believe a good point its not evidence but combined with evidence, It makes a good point.

Pascals wager is idiotic; how's that for objective?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Pascal's wager is for poosies.

I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.

I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:04:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Pascal's wager is for poosies.

I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.

I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.

I am not certain what qualifies as a pooosie?

I am uncertain to the veracity of Paschal's wager, but I hold it as more effective than you may.

It is a logical argument, but requires background information and a background process before understanding it fully.

Can you post a layout for your understanding of the Wager?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:15:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I understand it, and it is stupid.

Adopting a religion simply because of the supposed benefits and threats is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty.

Those who lack integrity or cursed to be miserable, and they deserve it.

Seriously, anyone who is convinced by pascal's wager probably is a consumer of a vast quantity of chemical amusement aid, or is mentally impaired in some other way.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:15:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Pascal's wager is for poosies.

I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.

I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.

kaboom owned like a lil "poooosie" check and mate *whispers* poosie
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:18:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, I'm fairly certain that if pascal's wager was used against a believer to coerce them into some other belief system or ideology, they'd find the argument to be just as stupid.

I highly doubt that even you find pascal's wager to be convincing in the slightest.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:21:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

take the 12 steps to finding god

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature
of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with
God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us
and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to
carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our
affairs.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:28:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
When I play at bars, I sometimes do a routine where I go, "Theeeees here are MY twelf steps!", and then proceed to stumble 12 steps.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:45:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reasoning for the efficacious nature of Paschal's Wager:

All the steps are based upon a presumptive but completely rational reasoning.
It is as follows:

Once convinced of a Maximally supreme being
"then"
becoming convinced that this being is indeed involved in History
"then"
you deduce that this maximally supreme being's religion would have survivability in history.
"then"
it is then only a matter of distinguishing which religions have consequences/payoffs
"which"
reduces the remaining religions two a very few
"then"
you weigh consequences/payoffs and you begin with those remaing few religions

Result: You start with the religion with the greatest weight of consequences/payoffs.

Those two would be between Islam and Christianity.

Islam –
Eternal punishment only is for the Kafirs. (Those who, after knowing all of the Religion -reject Allah directly)

Eternal reward is 72 virgins (unknown gender orientation)

Christianity –
Evil Moral values results in Hell.
Denying God results in Hell.
Denying Jesus results in Hell.

Eternal Rewards –
Heaven for obedient believers.
Heirship/heavenly rulership of some sort for obedient believers.
No need for Earthly "pains"

This is indeed only a start to your journey for truth.

Paschal's Wager in this form NEVER presumes a conclusion but a process by which to validate the pursuit of the "correct" religion as well as a rational process to determine "why" have a religion despite doubts.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,742
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:52:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:06:08 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.

You're kidding right? We discussed this for over 10 pages and when I challenged you to debate it, you rejected it.
Try again.

Response: And when I responded by stating that I would debate you as to whether God exist in which you provide evidence that God does not and I refute it, you dodged the request. Try again.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,742
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 6:57:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 12:23:50 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.

intelligent species? what about mentally deficient people or how about dolphins? they're smart why don't they worship they're creator? oh right they do flips for it right?

Response: The topic is whether their is evidence that God exist, not whether dolphins worship God.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:09:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:45:18 PM, Gileandos wrote:

Eternal reward is 72 virgins (unknown gender orientation)

Out of curiosity, do the women get 72 male virgins or is this for the men only?
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:16:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Well, there is always death. A quick snap of the neck never hurt anybody.
kfc
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:22:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 5:26:42 PM, Gileandos wrote:
@tvel,
Can you describe for me how Paschal's Wager breaks down?

There might be a God and you don't lose anything by worshipping one, so why risk not worshipping one and going to hell?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:24:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 8:35:12 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 4/15/2011 6:06:08 AM, tvellalott wrote:

You're kidding right? We discussed this for over 10 pages and when I challenged you to debate it, you rejected it.

Do an askbob and call him at home, hack his Facebook, and ruin his life.

Fix'd.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:26:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 6:52:06 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/15/2011 6:06:08 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 4/15/2011 6:03:04 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:22:11 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Christians and Muslims (Jews too, if there are any that care):
What actions would you have a non-believer like myself take to find God?

Response: A use of common sense. For your own existence is evidence of God's existence. For unintelligence can not create or cause intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Therefore, since you as well as any human being is an intelligent species, that means that you originated from intelligent design, thus the originator of the universe and life itself has to be an intelligent being, to whom we acknowledge as God.

You're kidding right? We discussed this for over 10 pages and when I challenged you to debate it, you rejected it.
Try again.

Response: And when I responded by stating that I would debate you as to whether God exist in which you provide evidence that God does not and I refute it, you dodged the request. Try again.

You can't prove non-existence, so why would I make a debate where proving non-existence is my burden of proof?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/15/2011 7:29:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/15/2011 7:22:47 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 4/15/2011 5:26:42 PM, Gileandos wrote:
@tvel,
Can you describe for me how Paschal's Wager breaks down?

There might be a God and you don't lose anything by worshipping one, so why risk not worshipping one and going to hell?

K, see my previous post and please let me know your thoughts.