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Lionheart
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4/22/2011 8:55:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to hear some intelligent thoughts and opinions about Scientology. I know the history of "Dianetics" and the founding of "The Church of Scientology".

I would like to hear your intellectual thoughts on the subject.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/22/2011 8:57:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 8:55:34 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear some intelligent thoughts and opinions about Scientology. I know the history of "Dianetics" and the founding of "The Church of Scientology".

I would like to hear your intellectual thoughts on the subject.

Tom Cruise won't come out of the closet. He's also a fudge packer.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 8:58:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok....
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/22/2011 8:58:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 8:55:34 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear some intelligent thoughts and opinions about Scientology. I know the history of "Dianetics" and the founding of "The Church of Scientology".

I would like to hear your intellectual thoughts on the subject.

Seriously though, the general consensus on Scientology now is probably comparable to what people thought about Christianity when it was new.

Our ancestors will all be Scientologists.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/22/2011 8:58:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 8:58:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Ok....

(It was a South Park reference)
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/22/2011 9:02:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion" L.B. Hubbard, founder of Scientology

I think that pretty well sums it up.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/22/2011 9:03:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 8:58:35 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Our ancestors will all be Scientologists.

How is that possible? Most of our ancestors have probably never even heard of Scientology. This is a religion that has emerged in this generation, I don't think any ancestor from a previous generation could possibly be a Scientologist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/22/2011 9:09:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:03:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/22/2011 8:58:35 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Our ancestors will all be Scientologists.

How is that possible? Most of our ancestors have probably never even heard of Scientology. This is a religion that has emerged in this generation, I don't think any ancestor from a previous generation could possibly be a Scientologist.

Gah. I meant descendants. >_<
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/22/2011 9:14:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Scientology costs too much fvcking money. Not even worth learning about(and the things you do learn about make you go "wtf"?). It's a scam, and one of the most obvious examples of a disingenuous religion.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 9:18:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Some of the methods involved seem very interesting to me. Dianetics seems like an interesting method towards developing a stronger consciousness. I wonder if the accused money corruptions involved with Scientology are a fault of the system, the people involved, or does it debunk everything included?

Is it any more a stretch of the imagination than most religions?
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/22/2011 9:23:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I love discussing Scientology.

To avoid the "machinery" that was developed by this religion...

and to directly address the strengthening of conciousness....

The strengthening of conciousness is something that first one must
presume that it can be strengthened...
then subjectively be "brought" to understanding that the cause and effect you are experiencing is indeed an actual strengthening.

Can you relay a personal experience or are you just reading their literature?
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 9:27:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm just researching into it at the moment. What is your opinion on Scientology. I see you are Christian.

Is the growth of this religion felt as a threat in your Christian circle?

Just curious.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/22/2011 9:42:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:18:26 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Is it any more a stretch of the imagination than most religions?

Nope. Scientology is no more absurd than any of the other religions.

Watch at [1:26]
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/22/2011 9:43:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:42:09 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:18:26 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Is it any more a stretch of the imagination than most religions?

Nope. Scientology is no more absurd than any of the other religions.



Watch at [1:22]

Fix'd. Watch at [1:22]
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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4/22/2011 9:46:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 8:55:34 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear some intelligent thoughts and opinions about Scientology. I know the history of "Dianetics" and the founding of "The Church of Scientology".

I would like to hear your intellectual thoughts on the subject.

L. Ron Hubbard's closest friends admit that he was just looking to make money and control people. He actually meant it to be a substitute for psychiatry. But I doubt it will ever become that popular because of the money aspect and all the mental health problems its caused people.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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4/22/2011 9:47:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:18:26 PM, Lionheart wrote:
Some of the methods involved seem very interesting to me. Dianetics seems like an interesting method towards developing a stronger consciousness. I wonder if the accused money corruptions involved with Scientology are a fault of the system, the people involved, or does it debunk everything included?

Is it any more a stretch of the imagination than most religions?

No, but that doesn't make it better. lol. You should definitely look up its effects on people before joining. It has done a lot of harm.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/22/2011 10:00:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:27:53 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I'm just researching into it at the moment. What is your opinion on Scientology. I see you are Christian.

Is the growth of this religion felt as a threat in your Christian circle?

Just curious.

First to address the threat:
We do not view it as a religious threat but a "scam" threat. We do not view it as a anything that is any more destructive than other destructive ideologies.

If you study mind control methods first... then go study scientology you will see exactly what Ron L. Hubbard was doing.

Additionally, it is not surprising that a high level of appeal will be had when you claim you can give some one super powers, the popularity of comics shows this desire is a childhood desire.

The difference in Christianity is to pour out your selfishness and personal desires and submit to God's direct Will and commands. To fall in love with God and what He loves. Turn the other cheek. If a man kidnaps you and takes a mile go two etc...

It is far, far more miraculous that Christianity has spread to the world's largest religion and outpacing any other with values that are against the instictive selfishness.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 10:03:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I will look into it, thank you for the advice. I must say though, Christianity has done way more harm than most religions combined and it is one of the most followed religions in the world.

How many people have been raped, molested, religiously brainwashed, or murdered in the name of the Christian God over the last 2000 years?

Is there anything that Scientology has done that can compare to that?

I only give this example in comparison, to better measure the damage Scientology may or may not have done.

I appreciate your advice and your perspective though Rogue. Truly.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/22/2011 10:06:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 8:55:34 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear some intelligent thoughts and opinions about Scientology. I know the history of "Dianetics" and the founding of "The Church of Scientology".

I would like to hear your intellectual thoughts on the subject.:

The "religion" was founded by a man who was absolutely enamored with science fiction, and all the underpinnings are surrounded by that common theme. L. Ron Hubbard even is quoted as saying [paraphrasing] that religion is the best way to get money. A few years later, he founded Scientology.

All the weird stuff about body thetans and Xenu are suppressed in the initial stages because they realize that everyone is going to think they're nuts. Since Hubbard's death, there have been a number of controversies, including murder, under the tutelage of David Misciavage.

Scientology is centered around manipulation and extortion. It's, simply put, a criminal racket, and one of the most diabolical "religions" known to mankind.

Their paranoia is so profound that they even have a private intelligence agency who follow up on Scientology's "Fair Game" policy. Any dissenters of Scientology are subject to fair game through any means necessary.

They are actually a very dangerous group. Of course, most of the members should be seen as victims under the manipulation of the upper eschelon. It's the people in command that are aware that Scientology is simply a way to line the church's pockets.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 10:14:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
My wife is Christian and grew up in a very strict Christian community. I have never experienced more brainwashing, personal relationship problems, family relationship problems, and closed mindedness, than when I started seeing into that world and hearing the stories of what has happened over the years.

It is enough to make me forsake the Christian Religion once and for all. I don't understand how so many negative things can be the result of following Christianity, if it is supposed to be the way of God.

The fact that it is still so popular boggles my mind.

I do respect Christians ans any other religious views, but I do not understand or agree with most Christian thinking, reasoning, rationalizing, or logic.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/22/2011 10:14:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:27:53 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I'm just researching into it at the moment. What is your opinion on Scientology. I see you are Christian.

Is the growth of this religion felt as a threat in your Christian circle?

Just curious.

As to my opinion of Scientology:
I will review a few Key "power" aspects.
Under the first auditing of the preclear (preclear = you prior to becoming "clear" on what they deem as reality)
1) You learn the technique of stop thought.
This technique is absolutely essential to controlling someones mind. You must teach them to stop thinking about key things. This is done in what appears to be, at first, a harmless way. If you have an issue like being molested or beaten as a child, this method becomes a powersource for stopping such thoughts and the emotional reaction to those past abuses.
- Eventually this methodology is used to counteract a normal persons ability to check in on reality. You get "programmed" to no longer check in with reality but you replant with thoughts that are called (the Holy word in scientology) as "Clear" thoughts. This is Scientologies form of "reality" or "enlightenment". When you do this you start to develop abilities. At first, it appears to work. But go and put an advanced scientologist under stress you will see them "check" out of reality in really obvious and bad ways.

-Strictly speaking a "power" of scientologists should be manifested to you prior to submitting to auditing. However, you will notice they will not "show" their abilities until you have been programmed. The abilities are not true until you can "perceive" them. It is very sad as once you are programmed you "Check" out of reality and their is no help for you.

-The auditing process is mandatory to maintain the programming. Eventually, everyone over time will return to a quasi ability to check in with reality without the audits.

Have you encountered an "audit" and this system of "Help" yet?

To point to the Christian method of dealing "scar tissue" of the soul, is to begin to understand God's reasons and Will in the matter. This is actually a process of going to God and discovering the "Why's". It is infinitely more fullfilling as it will allow you to deal in reality rather than blocking reality and then "supplanting" someone elses "reality" into your own.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/22/2011 10:16:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 10:03:51 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I will look into it, thank you for the advice. I must say though, Christianity has done way more harm than most religions combined and it is one of the most followed religions in the world.

How many people have been raped, molested, religiously brainwashed, or murdered in the name of the Christian God over the last 2000 years?

Is there anything that Scientology has done that can compare to that?

I only give this example in comparison, to better measure the damage Scientology may or may not have done.

I appreciate your advice and your perspective though Rogue. Truly.

Do you mind providing two of your top examples where Christianity has done this harm? I am unaware of any historical harm Christianity has done.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/22/2011 10:18:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Do you mind providing two of your top examples where Christianity has done this harm? I am unaware of any historical harm Christianity has done.:

Why don't we just keep the focus on Scientology instead of derailing this thread?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 10:27:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm not really to interested in the theatrical story involved with Scientology, or why the creator decided to create Scientology. There is no way to prove such theatrical stories any more than there is a way to prove the bible's stories, and the reasons this man created the religion do not effect me personally.

I am more interested in the methods they teach towards understanding how the different categories of relationships in a person life are connected, and how these connections influence and effect one another. There are some other interesting methods towards clearing negative experiences and thoughts which I find equally as interesting. Maybe if some of these methods were applied or adapted to another religion, a more positive and efficient result would occur.

I am only interested in intelligence, wisdom, and efficiency.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/22/2011 10:34:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 10:14:13 PM, Lionheart wrote:
My wife is Christian and grew up in a very strict Christian community. I have never experienced more brainwashing, personal relationship problems, family relationship problems, and closed mindedness, than when I started seeing into that world and hearing the stories of what has happened over the years.

It is enough to make me forsake the Christian Religion once and for all. I don't understand how so many negative things can be the result of following Christianity, if it is supposed to be the way of God.

The fact that it is still so popular boggles my mind.

I do respect Christians ans any other religious views, but I do not understand or agree with most Christian thinking, reasoning, rationalizing, or logic.

Can you give me your top two/ two strongest "complaints"? I myself have found the opposite to be true. I would like to understand your experience.

I also approach all things with this logical system, there are alot of bad mathematicians in the world but that does not invalidate the objective "truth" status of numerical metaphysical values.
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/22/2011 10:43:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I too, would like to keep this forum on topic.. But I will answer your question respectfully.

1.) The Crusades. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

2.) Witch Hunts. To justify the killings, Christianity and its proxy secular institutions deemed witchcraft as being associated to wild Satanic ritual parties in which there was much naked dancing, orgy sex, and cannibalistic infanticide.[13] It was also seen as heresy for going against the first of the ten commandments (You shall have no other gods before me) or as violating majesty, in this case referring to the divine majesty, not the worldly.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

There is a lot more examples I can give, both modern and in ages past. I just decided to give the ones that killed the most people.

But, I will be moving on from this subject now.

Back to Scientology.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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4/23/2011 1:32:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 10:27:11 PM, Lionheart wrote:

I am more interested in the methods they teach towards understanding how the different categories of relationships in a person life are connected, and how these connections influence and effect one another. There are some other interesting methods towards clearing negative experiences and thoughts which I find equally as interesting. Maybe if some of these methods were applied or adapted to another religion, a more positive and efficient result would occur.

As an honest question, you are aware that there are branches of science which deal with these things, why don't you look there?
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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4/23/2011 1:59:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 10:43:10 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I too, would like to keep this forum on topic.. But I will answer your question respectfully.

1.) The Crusades. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

2.) Witch Hunts. To justify the killings, Christianity and its proxy secular institutions deemed witchcraft as being associated to wild Satanic ritual parties in which there was much naked dancing, orgy sex, and cannibalistic infanticide.[13] It was also seen as heresy for going against the first of the ten commandments (You shall have no other gods before me) or as violating majesty, in this case referring to the divine majesty, not the worldly.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

There is a lot more examples I can give, both modern and in ages past. I just decided to give the ones that killed the most people.

But, I will be moving on from this subject now.

Back to Scientology.

So you disregard Christianity because of something Christianity couldn't control...Brilliant. I am willing to debate you on whatever Christianity was the cause of any of those events.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/23/2011 2:08:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm starting to get it now. Me thinks Lionheart IS a Scientologist incognito and he's trying to bait prospective recruits by dismissing anything negative and talking about flighty, new age sounding nonsense to spark interest.

He's going to start talking about E-meters and auditing in a minute while I "enturbulate" the forum (a made-up Scientology word).

Not interested.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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4/23/2011 2:11:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 2:08:26 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I'm starting to get it now. Me thinks Lionheart IS a Scientologist incognito and he's trying to bait prospective recruits by dismissing anything negative and talking about flighty, new age sounding nonsense to spark interest.

He's going to start talking about E-meters and auditing in a minute while I "enturbulate" the forum (a made-up Scientology word).

Not interested.

My thoughts - exactly.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ