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Unitarian Universalism

Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/23/2011 5:08:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.

Unitarian Universalism has no beliefs. It's basically a community that accepts all religious practices and practitioners.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/23/2011 5:13:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:08:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.

Unitarian Universalism has no beliefs. It's basically a community that accepts all religious practices and practitioners.

It might be to my liking since I like at least a few teachings from all belief systems.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/23/2011 5:17:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:08:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.

Unitarian Universalism has no beliefs. It's basically a community that accepts all religious practices and practitioners.

Unitarian Universalists are united by a common search for truth, open mindedness in each other's opinions, and the lack of belief that anyone goes to hell for their opinions.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/23/2011 5:22:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:17:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/23/2011 5:08:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.

Unitarian Universalism has no beliefs. It's basically a community that accepts all religious practices and practitioners.

Unitarian Universalists are united by a common search for truth, open mindedness in each other's opinions, and the lack of belief that anyone goes to hell for their opinions.

But they're not united by any belief other than the principle of acceptance. It's not really a philosophy or a religion at all. To me, it just seems like a get-together.

If it does have beliefs, correct me if I'm wrong and list them.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/23/2011 5:55:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote. These express the shared values that unite Unitarian Universalists.

- The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

- Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

- Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations

- A free and responsible search for truth and meaning

- The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large

- The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

- Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/23/2011 6:05:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:55:30 PM, Lionheart wrote:
There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote. These express the shared values that unite Unitarian Universalists.

- The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

- Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

- Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations

- A free and responsible search for truth and meaning

- The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large

- The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

- Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Everything stated there backs up Geo's statement. It is just a get together of common values. An american political party would make all of these claims and then even list agenda points.

An agenda would be what Truth are they searchin for and the like. Another would be what is spiritual growth by their criteria?
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/23/2011 6:41:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You see, the difference seems to be that there isn't a religious agenda for finding truth. The only agenda is of each individual's own search for personal and universal truth. This grouping together of people all having the same outlook towards religion and truth is what hits home with me. It's a religion or group based around open mindedness, universal truth, and the seven principals which I have stated in my previous post.

Why do you feel UU needs a religious agenda in order to be a valid religion? I think that everyone who follows UU can agree on 3 main components, they would be; Thinking with open mindedness, Searching for a universal truth about everything/anything, and living by the seven basic principals of UU.

How does a group of people that all believe in living on common ground spiritually, not qualify as a valid religion?
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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4/23/2011 9:13:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.

All congregations I have known are really inspiring and spiritual. I am an UU. I have heard that some are "just to look accepting with no real intellectual bite" but I have never found this. Find a church nearby and check it out.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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4/23/2011 9:13:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 5:08:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/23/2011 5:00:00 PM, Lionheart wrote:
I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on Unitarian Universalism.

I find that it fits with my personal belief system perfectly.

Unitarian Universalism has no beliefs. It's basically a community that accepts all religious practices and practitioners.

We actually have 7 principles thank you very much.
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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4/23/2011 9:19:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 6:41:01 PM, Lionheart wrote:
You see, the difference seems to be that there isn't a religious agenda for finding truth. The only agenda is of each individual's own search for personal and universal truth. This grouping together of people all having the same outlook towards religion and truth is what hits home with me. It's a religion or group based around open mindedness, universal truth, and the seven principals which I have stated in my previous post.

Why do you feel UU needs a religious agenda in order to be a valid religion? I think that everyone who follows UU can agree on 3 main components, they would be; Thinking with open mindedness, Searching for a universal truth about everything/anything, and living by the seven basic principals of UU.

How does a group of people that all believe in living on common ground spiritually, not qualify as a valid religion?

I wouldn't say those are the main points. Most UUs aren't open to many things like hatred of gays. We are about searching for your own truth and meaning, being good to others, accepting others as they are, taking the good things from all religions, and other things I can't think of at the moment. The seven principles aren't supposed to be specific, they are a kind of guideline as to how a UU lives. But does it have to be a religion to be spiritual and meaningful? I don't necessarily consider it a religion since it has no dogma.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/23/2011 10:03:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I like Unitarian Universalism.

I could probably technically still consider myself one if I went to UU meetings and such.

Only church I go to is the blues church.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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4/23/2011 10:06:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, maybe it's not valid as a definable religion. I think that it is a religion for those who don't follow a religion, but come together in a common understanding. I'm sure that there is closed mindedness amongst people following UU... But I think this would go against one of the seven principals and would be frowned upon, much like a Christian that doesn't believe in waiting until marriage to have sex.

Frowned upon, but still an accepted follower of the religion.

It's all new for me though. I will learn more.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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4/23/2011 10:09:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Went to a UU congregation once. Just like temple, I also found it to be boring. While there is no central belief, it appears to at least believe in a god, which I as an atheist, do not believe.

I'll give buddhism a try, but after that I'm done with "religion".
Open borders debate:
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/23/2011 10:25:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You do not have to believe in God to be an Unitarian Universalist.

When I went to the UU church, I was actually going as an atheist.

It is a church centered around the idea of humanism.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/23/2011 10:39:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 10:09:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I'll give buddhism a try, but after that I'm done with "religion".

Yes, you definitely should look into Buddhism, once described as the religion of no religion.

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
-- the Buddha
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/23/2011 10:50:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 10:39:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/23/2011 10:09:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I'll give buddhism a try, but after that I'm done with "religion".

Yes, you definitely should look into Buddhism, once described as the religion of no religion.

It's the religion that pretends at not being a religion :p

certain kinds of Unsubstantiated/Unreasonable "Philosophical" beliefs when they're asserted as "metaphysical truth" w/o basis.. would be more accurately described as "religious" belief.

This is so with one of the most Striking and defining aspects of Buddhism.. that is the Belief that Compassion is a Transcendent Good..
and that it's necessary both to develop Understanding, and Necessarily practiced Given understanding.

And it's also the case with a few other beliefs.. like that the Universe is Mind.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/23/2011 10:55:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 10:50:15 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/23/2011 10:39:04 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Yes, you definitely should look into Buddhism, once described as the religion of no religion.

It's the religion that pretends at not being a religion :p

certain kinds of Unsubstantiated/Unreasonable "Philosophical" beliefs when they're asserted as "metaphysical truth" w/o basis.. would be more accurately described as "religious" belief.

Buddhism denies Metaphysics. It is actually a form of Metaphysical Nihilism.

This is so with one of the most Striking and defining aspects of Buddhism.. that is the Belief that Compassion is a Transcendent Good..

No it's not. Lay off the crack pipe. Show me one passage of scripture that asserts this!!!!!!!!!!

and that it's necessary both to develop Understanding, and Necessarily practiced Given understanding.

Necessary? Please, show me the passages from scripture that support your assertions!!!!!!!!!!!!

And it's also the case with a few other beliefs.. like that the Universe is Mind.

It doesn't explicitly state that actually. It tries to avoid such language because it is misleading as it has clearly mislead you!!!!!!!!!!!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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4/23/2011 11:52:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 10:09:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Went to a UU congregation once. Just like temple, I also found it to be boring. While there is no central belief, it appears to at least believe in a god, which I as an atheist, do not believe.

I'll give buddhism a try, but after that I'm done with "religion".

Are you sure? there is definitely no belief in God. We have ton of UU atheists.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/24/2011 1:15:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 10:09:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Went to a UU congregation once. Just like temple, I also found it to be boring. While there is no central belief, it appears to at least believe in a god, which I as an atheist, do not believe.

I'll give buddhism a try, but after that I'm done with "religion".

UU does not profess Theism.
Due to it's lack of strong dogma, UU churches tend to be highly sovereign in their characteristics; differing by each church.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/24/2011 1:16:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/24/2011 1:15:58 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/23/2011 10:09:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Went to a UU congregation once. Just like temple, I also found it to be boring. While there is no central belief, it appears to at least believe in a god, which I as an atheist, do not believe.

I'll give buddhism a try, but after that I'm done with "religion".

UU does not profess Theism.
Due to it's lack of strong dogma, UU churches tend to be highly sovereign in their characteristics; differing by each church.

If the majority of the UU people there are Theistic then it's going to seem like the church is Theistic.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Grape
Posts: 989
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4/24/2011 1:29:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So if I do not accept the use of "the democratic process...in society at large" I am not welcome in the community of 'open-minded' Unitarian Universalists?

I think any group that claims to truly be open to all ideas needs to consider their assumptions quite seriously.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/24/2011 2:13:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/24/2011 1:29:37 AM, Grape wrote:
So if I do not accept the use of "the democratic process...in society at large" I am not welcome in the community of 'open-minded' Unitarian Universalists?

I think any group that claims to truly be open to all ideas needs to consider their assumptions quite seriously.

Democracy is technically existent whether or not it is officially recognized, or acknowledged by the people.

Any type of government gains its authority from the people who give it that authority.

Even if you have a state that seemingly gains its authority because of it's overwhelming use of force.. The people still can choose whether or not to cave in to that threat or not.

Democracy is an unspoken law when it comes to society.

Even someone who vehemently opposes the democratic process is taking part in the democratic process.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Grape
Posts: 989
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4/24/2011 2:37:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/24/2011 2:13:30 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 4/24/2011 1:29:37 AM, Grape wrote:
So if I do not accept the use of "the democratic process...in society at large" I am not welcome in the community of 'open-minded' Unitarian Universalists?

I think any group that claims to truly be open to all ideas needs to consider their assumptions quite seriously.

Democracy is technically existent whether or not it is officially recognized, or acknowledged by the people.


Technically, no it's not. Democracy means that the government is run by the people.

Any type of government gains its authority from the people who give it that authority.


No one has to give you the authority to shoot guns at people to kill them and threaten them into obeying you. You can do that autonomously.

Even if you have a state that seemingly gains its authority because of it's overwhelming use of force.. The people still can choose whether or not to cave in to that threat or not.


If there is a ready and present threat of physical force, a free decision is not being made. The choice between obedience and death cannot be called a choice in any useful sense of the word.

Democracy is an unspoken law when it comes to society.


Restatement of what you said before with no discernible contend.

Even someone who vehemently opposes the democratic process is taking part in the democratic process.

A society in which people agree one things =/= a society in which people who agree on things claim that their numerical superiority justifies imposing their ideas through force.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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4/24/2011 8:57:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 6:41:01 PM, Lionheart wrote:
You see, the difference seems to be that there isn't a religious agenda for finding truth. The only agenda is of each individual's own search for personal and universal truth. This grouping together of people all having the same outlook towards religion and truth is what hits home with me. It's a religion or group based around open mindedness, universal truth, and the seven principals which I have stated in my previous post.

Why do you feel UU needs a religious agenda in order to be a valid religion? I think that everyone who follows UU can agree on 3 main components, they would be; Thinking with open mindedness, Searching for a universal truth about everything/anything, and living by the seven basic principals of UU.

How does a group of people that all believe in living on common ground spiritually, not qualify as a valid religion?

Quid es Veritas?

You see? You cannot say you are searching for "Truth" without defining "Truth".

Even Pontius Pilot asked the question.

What is Spiritual Growth? If I find rape spiritually satisfying as well as physcially I am still acceptable under all 7 assertions.

This "get together" does not define actions whether criminal or societal. It does not define "Truth" and it does not define Spritual growth.

Sounds like a money making racket without the brainwashing of Scientology.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/24/2011 10:45:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/24/2011 2:37:19 AM, Grape wrote:
At 4/24/2011 2:13:30 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 4/24/2011 1:29:37 AM, Grape wrote:
So if I do not accept the use of "the democratic process...in society at large" I am not welcome in the community of 'open-minded' Unitarian Universalists?

I think any group that claims to truly be open to all ideas needs to consider their assumptions quite seriously.

Democracy is technically existent whether or not it is officially recognized, or acknowledged by the people.


Technically, no it's not. Democracy means that the government is run by the people.


On paper, sure, but in practice, it is pretty much the same thing. Democracy tends to be better at perpetuating the illusion better than other more totalitarian type governments.

Any type of government gains its authority from the people who give it that authority.


No one has to give you the authority to shoot guns at people to kill them and threaten them into obeying you. You can do that autonomously.


I'm saying an institution is only recognized as a government if the people recognize it as such. What separates a government from a powerful mob is the legitimacy that the people give to it.

Such a government would not stand if everyone decided to not only stop recognizing it, but acted violently against it.

Even if you have a state that seemingly gains its authority because of it's overwhelming use of force.. The people still can choose whether or not to cave in to that threat or not.


If there is a ready and present threat of physical force, a free decision is not being made. The choice between obedience and death cannot be called a choice in any useful sense of the word.


When I say "the people", I'm talking about the people under the jurisdiction of the government.

If the majority does not recognize the government, the government is now criminal.

The state only has power so long as it can keep up the illusion that it deserves to have power.

Even someone who vehemently opposes the democratic process is taking part in the democratic process.

A society in which people agree one things =/= a society in which people who agree on things claim that their numerical superiority justifies imposing their ideas through force.

Isn't that what every state is?

The people themselves do not impose the idea through force, but the government they allow to exist certainly does. Democracy, Monarchy, Communist State, Fascist State, it doesn't matter.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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4/24/2011 1:36:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I took an atheistic stance againt a Christian friend of mine about a year ago. The conclusion I came to was that, at some point, even these two opposite postitions are reconcileable without either side being wrong. It just depends on your frame of reference.
kfc