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Question for atheists about Jesus.

phantom
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4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Ore_Ele
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4/27/2011 11:48:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

There is also option 5) he was a mistaken and option 6) he was misquoted
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
phantom
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4/27/2011 11:58:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:48:58 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

There is also option 5) he was a mistaken and option 6) he was misquoted

5) is the same as 1. as he would have had to be crazy to be mistaken for something like that. Just like Joan of ark was mistaken as well as crazy.

6) Could have been added though. But it is unlikely. If He was misquoted than why did He die on the cross because of His teachings?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/27/2011 12:01:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God damn, how many times have I heard this absolutely terrible argument.

I have a better question to ask you.

Do you seriously think that option 3 is the most plausible one?

If so, are you on drugs?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
phantom
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4/27/2011 12:09:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 12:01:44 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
God damn, how many times have I heard this absolutely terrible argument.

I stated a question. It's not so much an argument. I just want to hear what you believe. That is what I asked, I want an answer and an explanation. Whenever I see this come up I never see a good answer.
I have a better question to ask you.

Do you seriously think that option 3 is the most plausible one?
As a christian yes I do. But not only because of what I have stated in this thread, but that is not the point of this thread. And answering my question with a question isn't an answer.
If so, are you on drugs?
nope.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
baggins
Posts: 855
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4/27/2011 12:12:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Options 6 :- Misquoted.

However as I am not an atheist - I guess it does not count.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Ore_Ele
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4/27/2011 12:21:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:58:43 AM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:48:58 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

There is also option 5) he was a mistaken and option 6) he was misquoted

5) is the same as 1. as he would have had to be crazy to be mistaken for something like that. Just like Joan of ark was mistaken as well as crazy.

Not really, you have to remember that it was a different time with different understandings. Many people now would say that seeing God is "crazy" but back then it wasn't.


6) Could have been added though. But it is unlikely. If He was misquoted than why did He die on the cross because of His teachings?

Is it not possible he died for other reasons and that was simply an excuse used to raise him to a higher moral level?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
GeoLaureate8
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4/27/2011 12:26:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:58:43 AM, phantom wrote:
6) Could have been added though. But it is unlikely. If He was misquoted than why did He die on the cross because of His teachings?

Oh I don't know, maybe because of the fact that he was misquoted AFTER he died on the cross. His teachings weren't written down until 90 years later.

I take it you're not too big on critical thinking, or any sort of thinking for that matter. I mean it really wasn't a very difficult thing to figure out.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
CosmicAlfonzo
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4/27/2011 12:34:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 12:09:28 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 12:01:44 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
God damn, how many times have I heard this absolutely terrible argument.

I stated a question. It's not so much an argument. I just want to hear what you believe. That is what I asked, I want an answer and an explanation. Whenever I see this come up I never see a good answer.
I have a better question to ask you.

Do you seriously think that option 3 is the most plausible one?
As a christian yes I do. But not only because of what I have stated in this thread, but that is not the point of this thread. And answering my question with a question isn't an answer.
If so, are you on drugs?
nope.

This is an apologetic argument, I've seen it over 9,000 times.

It is an argument, whether you realize it or not.

It is a trick question. Either you believe everything that was written about Jesus, or you think he was nuts.

Either you are for him, or you are against him.

I do believe that if Jesus existed(which I am inclined to believe he did), he was most likely misquoted. He could have been a liar. I doubt that he was crazy, but just about any option is more plausible than believing that Jesus was a god man who performed miracles and defied the laws of nature.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
phantom
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4/27/2011 12:46:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 12:21:03 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:58:43 AM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:48:58 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

There is also option 5) he was a mistaken and option 6) he was misquoted

5) is the same as 1. as he would have had to be crazy to be mistaken for something like that. Just like Joan of ark was mistaken as well as crazy.

Not really, you have to remember that it was a different time with different understandings. Many people now would say that seeing God is "crazy" but back then it wasn't.


6) Could have been added though. But it is unlikely. If He was misquoted than why did He die on the cross because of His teachings?

Is it not possible he died for other reasons and that was simply an excuse used to raise him to a higher moral level?

Thats a good point but I don't know of any other explanations of why He was crucified other than what the Bible says. And I'm pretty sure that ancient scholars wrote that He was crucified for His teachings about Christianity.

@baggins
I see your a Muslim. So you still believe he was a moral teacher but not the Son of God. Just a prophet.

However if He was misquoted that leaves the question; what did He do to get crucified?
I'm just curious for non Christians opinions. I'm making more of a question than an argument.
I'm not saying their couldn't be any other reasons He was crucified but I haven't heard any.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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4/27/2011 1:06:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 12:26:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:58:43 AM, phantom wrote:
6) Could have been added though. But it is unlikely. If He was misquoted than why did He die on the cross because of His teachings?

Oh I don't know, maybe because of the fact that he was misquoted AFTER he died on the cross. His teachings weren't written down until 90 years later.

I take it you're not too big on critical thinking, or any sort of thinking for that matter. I mean it really wasn't a very difficult thing to figure out.

I think you miss my point.
What other explanation is their other than that He was crucified because of His Christian teachings? And I'm pretty sure 90 is the wrong figure for that. I'm pretty sure it's more like 40.
So give me a good explanation of why He was crucified.

I think all the replies have been that He was miss quoted. Thank you for your answers.

But my question, "for what reason do you believe He was crucified?" has still gone unanswered.
I obviously believe He was crucified for His Christian teachings and claims that He was the Son of God.
The Talmud says the He was a sorcerer who practiced magic. So another reason He was crucified could be because of His miracles.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
unitedandy
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4/27/2011 1:41:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

Like others, I would go for option 5 (that he was sincerely mistaken) or 6 (he was misquoted). It seems pretty certain that Jesus existed, but the idea that we could argue for a resurrection I think would be enormously optimistic, and as such, I don't envy any apologist making the argument.
baggins
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4/27/2011 2:24:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@baggins
I see your a Muslim. So you still believe he was a moral teacher but not the Son of God. Just a prophet.

Not just a prophet. Jesus (Peace on Him) was one of the most important Prophet of God. He was the Messiah promised in the earlier books.

We believe in most of the miracles performed by the Jesus (Peace on Him) + at least one extra. We believe in virgin birth of Jesus (Peace on Him) and innocence of our mother Mary (Peace on Her). We believe he came on earth to guide us towards God. We believe that salvation lies in following what he taught and not just in taking his name.

No Muslim can be a Muslim until he has complete faith in Jesus (Peace on Him)

However Muslims disagree with Christians in few critical aspect.

1. We do not accept him as biological son of God. Indeed we find the concept of God having biological son to be sacrilegious. We can consider Jesus (Peace on Him) as son of God only in the metaphorical sense. In the sense God loves all of us like his son.

2. We believe salvation lies in the teachings of Jesus (Peace on Him) and is not automatic on taking his name.

3. Coming to the point, we think that while Jews did there best to get him murdered, they failed to do so. As far as Muslims are concerned, Jesus did not die. Quran says about Jews:

Quran 4:157 :- That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

So what really happened. Quran does not explain. Obviously there is some mistake the apostle's description. One possible way has been suggested here. (Please note - the theory in the link in not an article of faith for us)(Moreover - the author is a debater who uses slightly confrontational language)
http://www.4shared.com...

4. We believe that he prophesied Prophet Muhammad (Peace on Him), who was to follow after him.

5. And this needs to be emphasized. We believe in Masiha Isa (or Messiah Jesus) (Peace on him) based on the testimony of Prophet Mohammad (Peace on Him) who glorified Jesus (Peace on Him) through Quran - which was revealed on him by the Merciful God. So for us - faith in both of them goes hand in hand. Rejecting (or insulting) one is same as rejecting both of them.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
InsertNameHere
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4/27/2011 2:39:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

I'm not an atheist, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, I believe Jesus existed. Was he the son of God? No. Did he perform miracles? Probably not. Did he have good teachings? Of course.

Anyway, to expand, my personal view on him is that he was a Jew, there's no denying that bit. At the time of his life the Romans did occupy Jerusalem so he was likely just a rebel against this occupation who ended up getting crucified(assuming that bit really did happen) since it was the prescribed Roman punishment at the time. People always like stories of rebels so I'll take a guess and say everything else was just myths written about him to glorify his role in rebelling against foreign rule. It's an interesting theory regardless I like to think about regardless.
GeoLaureate8
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4/27/2011 2:59:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 2:39:21 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

I'm not an atheist, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, I believe Jesus existed. Was he the son of God? No. Did he perform miracles? Probably not. Did he have good teachings? Of course.

Anyway, to expand, my personal view on him is that he was a Jew, there's no denying that bit. At the time of his life the Romans did occupy Jerusalem so he was likely just a rebel against this occupation who ended up getting crucified(assuming that bit really did happen) since it was the prescribed Roman punishment at the time. People always like stories of rebels so I'll take a guess and say everything else was just myths written about him to glorify his role in rebelling against foreign rule. It's an interesting theory regardless I like to think about regardless.

Linguistics fail.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
baggins
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4/27/2011 3:02:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@Phantom
In case you want to learn about Jesus (Peace on Him), read following verses (You will have to navigate to the relevant verses)

Story of 'woman of Imran' (Mary's mother), Zakariya, Mary and Jesus (Peace on Them) : Verse 3:35-3:60
http://quran.com...

Life of Mary and Jesus (Peace on Them) : Verse 19:16-19:36
http://quran.com...

Teachings of Jesus (Peace on Him): Verse 5:110-5:121
http://quran.com...
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
vardas0antras
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4/27/2011 3:35:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 12:21:03 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:58:43 AM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:48:58 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

There is also option 5) he was a mistaken and option 6) he was misquoted

5) is the same as 1. as he would have had to be crazy to be mistaken for something like that. Just like Joan of ark was mistaken as well as crazy.

Not really, you have to remember that it was a different time with different understandings. Many people now would say that seeing God is "crazy" but back then it wasn't.


Sources needed


6) Could have been added though. But it is unlikely. If He was misquoted than why did He die on the cross because of His teachings?

Is it not possible he died for other reasons and that was simply an excuse used to raise him to a higher moral level?
Example?
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Puck
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4/27/2011 4:38:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.

I guess if you don't read that's true ...

(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

Depends, debatable.
InsertNameHere
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4/27/2011 5:31:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 2:59:09 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 4/27/2011 2:39:21 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

I'm not an atheist, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, I believe Jesus existed. Was he the son of God? No. Did he perform miracles? Probably not. Did he have good teachings? Of course.

Anyway, to expand, my personal view on him is that he was a Jew, there's no denying that bit. At the time of his life the Romans did occupy Jerusalem so he was likely just a rebel against this occupation who ended up getting crucified(assuming that bit really did happen) since it was the prescribed Roman punishment at the time. People always like stories of rebels so I'll take a guess and say everything else was just myths written about him to glorify his role in rebelling against foreign rule. It's an interesting theory regardless I like to think about regardless.

Linguistics fail.

lol, I literally just noticed that. I was rushed when I was typing up this response. xD
Meatros
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4/27/2011 6:03:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.

I'm not sure any of the stuff we read about Jesus is fact or even supposed to be fact. You might as well have asked these questions about Perseus or Romulus and Remus.

The Gospels are decades after the fact and do not read like history. They are all based on Mark, who was not a witness.

Similar stuff has happened throughout history. I don't believe that Apollonious of Tyana came back from the dead or did miracles, so why should I believe Jesus? Because his cult was more popular?
Meatros
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4/27/2011 6:08:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 3:35:19 PM, vardas0antras wrote:

Not really, you have to remember that it was a different time with different understandings. Many people now would say that seeing God is "crazy" but back then it wasn't.


Sources needed

Apollonious of Tyana.

Also, IIRC Josephus mentions many apacalyptic preachers in his histories.

Also, look at the old testament!
phantom
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4/27/2011 7:05:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 6:03:48 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:42:40 AM, phantom wrote:
(a) It is widely accepted by atheists that Jesus existed and that He said that He was the Son of God.
(b) It is also often accepted that he was a good moral teacher.

So here's my question.

What do atheists believe Jesus was? The way I see it there are four possibilities.
1. He was crazy?
2. He was a liar?
3. He was who He said was?
4. He is a lie and never existed.

So what's your opinion? Personally I think (b) contradicts 1 and 2. But I would like to hear other peoples opinions before stating my thoughts.


I'm not sure any of the stuff we read about Jesus is fact or even supposed to be fact. You might as well have asked these questions about Perseus or Romulus and Remus.

The Gospels are decades after the fact and do not read like history. They are all based on Mark, who was not a witness.

Similar stuff has happened throughout history. I don't believe that Apollonious of Tyana came back from the dead or did miracles, so why should I believe Jesus? Because his cult was more popular?

It's not just the gospels that mention Jesus but many ancient scholars both nonchristian and Christian. Also many religions acknowledge Him as a great prophet or man.

My question was what do atheists believe Jesus was. I wasn't posting as an argument but a question. Most people so far think that He was real but was misquoted.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Meatros
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4/27/2011 7:19:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 7:05:25 PM, phantom wrote:

It's not just the gospels that mention Jesus but many ancient scholars both nonchristian and Christian. Also many religions acknowledge Him as a great prophet or man.

There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus - either from friendly sources or not. The first written accounts come a few decades after he died. The first non-bible source that I'm aware of is Josephus, who wrote somewhere around 100AD. His work was interpolated. At best, he acknowledges what Christians believed.


My question was what do atheists believe Jesus was. I wasn't posting as an argument but a question. Most people so far think that He was real but was misquoted.

I think Jesus was just a founder of a religion, like any other founder. According to Bob Price, even Charles Manson had miracles attributed to him. Why should I believe Jesus over all the numerous other miracle men?
tvellalott
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4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.
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phantom
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4/27/2011 11:47:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.

I think for Him to be mistaken He would have had to be crazy.

If He was insane He wouldn't have had so many followers.

Unless you, like others, think that He has been misquoted, His teachings sound pretty sane to me.

And because I have not heard examples of what He taught if He was misquoted.

But It is unlikely He has been misquoted due to the Bibles excellent historical accuracy.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/27/2011 11:53:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:47:30 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.

I think for Him to be mistaken He would have had to be crazy.

:If He was insane He wouldn't have had so many followers.

The funniest thing I've heard all day.

Unless you, like others, think that He has been misquoted, His teachings sound pretty sane to me.

And because I have not heard examples of what He taught if He was misquoted.

But It is unlikely He has been misquoted due to the Bibles excellent historical accuracy.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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4/27/2011 11:59:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:53:24 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:47:30 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.

I think for Him to be mistaken He would have had to be crazy.

:If He was insane He wouldn't have had so many followers.

The funniest thing I've heard all

Why do you say that?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/27/2011 11:59:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:53:24 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:47:30 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.

I think for Him to be mistaken He would have had to be crazy.

:If He was insane He wouldn't have had so many followers.

The funniest thing I've heard all day.

Unless you, like others, think that He has been misquoted, His teachings sound pretty sane to me.

And because I have not heard examples of what He taught if He was misquoted.

But It is unlikely He has been misquoted due to the Bibles excellent historical accuracy.

Why
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
reddj2
Posts: 239
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4/28/2011 12:32:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/27/2011 11:59:29 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:53:24 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:47:30 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.

I think for Him to be mistaken He would have had to be crazy.

:If He was insane He wouldn't have had so many followers.

The funniest thing I've heard all day.

Unless you, like others, think that He has been misquoted, His teachings sound pretty sane to me.

And because I have not heard examples of what He taught if He was misquoted.

But It is unlikely He has been misquoted due to the Bibles excellent historical accuracy.

Why
Scientology
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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4/28/2011 12:41:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/28/2011 12:32:52 AM, reddj2 wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:59:29 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:53:24 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:47:30 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/27/2011 11:20:13 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Jesus probably existed.
If he did exist, he was definitely mistaken about his divine origin.

I think for Him to be mistaken He would have had to be crazy.

:If He was insane He wouldn't have had so many followers.

The funniest thing I've heard all day.

Unless you, like others, think that He has been misquoted, His teachings sound pretty sane to me.

And because I have not heard examples of what He taught if He was misquoted.

But It is unlikely He has been misquoted due to the Bibles excellent historical accuracy.

Why
Scientology

Not a very honest/fair comparison. When did it start? 1954? Members? Maybe 30,000 in the US? Also would you compare the belief systems? Maybe the teachings of Christ to the teaching of Hubbard? What are the differences?

It was an example though. Any others?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen