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Hell.

GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 8:20:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I watched a program of T.V. last night about a prison called Strangeways. It is Britain's most notorious prison known for jailing murders and rapists. The prison is in Manchester.

Anyway I do have a point here, I don't mean to argue, it is not the intent I bring. But I am just saying something, making a remake which perhaps you might want to think about.

A first time prisoner was brought in just before Christmas 2010 for driving a van that contained drugs in the back. He wanted a few extra bucks for the Christmas season. Unfortunately for him and his family, he was arrested. He was at Strangeways for a week before his court trail. Later on in the program he returned from his court trail. Bad news for him, he was to be sentenced for 15 years for 'just driving a van'.

On the way back from the court he said that he dazed out, and that he could not remember the time from getting into the police van to when he arrived at Strangeways. He said that his mind hadn't quite caught up with his body, or in other words, he couldn't believe reality, it was too much of a shock to his normal understanding of reality and life.

He was panicking and he could stay still, he seemed to be very anxious. The prison guards were to keep a close eye on him in case he might commit suicide. One of the prison officers stated that many prisoners are quite calm about their situation of being imprisoned for years on end until weeks later when the reality just sinks in. And other prisons are aware of the reality right away.

15 years, I will be 35 when he is allowed out for the first time. Other prisoners commit suicide or commit self harm to scorn away their depression.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/10/2011 8:23:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 8:20:30 AM, GodSands wrote:
I watched a program of T.V. last night about a prison called Strangeways. It is Britain's most notorious prison known for jailing murders and rapists. The prison is in Manchester.

Anyway I do have a point here, I don't mean to argue, it is not the intent I bring. But I am just saying something, making a remake which perhaps you might want to think about.

A first time prisoner was brought in just before Christmas 2010 for driving a van that contained drugs in the back. He wanted a few extra bucks for the Christmas season. Unfortunately for him and his family, he was arrested. He was at Strangeways for a week before his court trail. Later on in the program he returned from his court trail. Bad news for him, he was to be sentenced for 15 years for 'just driving a van'.

On the way back from the court he said that he dazed out, and that he could not remember the time from getting into the police van to when he arrived at Strangeways. He said that his mind hadn't quite caught up with his body, or in other words, he couldn't believe reality, it was too much of a shock to his normal understanding of reality and life.

He was panicking and he could stay still, he seemed to be very anxious. The prison guards were to keep a close eye on him in case he might commit suicide. One of the prison officers stated that many prisoners are quite calm about their situation of being imprisoned for years on end until weeks later when the reality just sinks in. And other prisons are aware of the reality right away.

15 years, I will be 35 when he is allowed out for the first time. Other prisoners commit suicide or commit self harm to scorn away their depression.

Britain's most notorious prison is Liverpool.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 10:17:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.

Just use the information that I've said to work out the actual message.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/10/2011 10:24:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 10:17:49 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.

Just use the information that I've said to work out the actual message.

Ah, I get the message!

So in other words, the reason why so many christians exist, is because, at the end of their lives, they panicked and started to believe in Christianity because of fear!

Okay, i understand the actual message now. Thanks.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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5/10/2011 12:54:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 10:24:20 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:17:49 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.

Just use the information that I've said to work out the actual message.

Ah, I get the message!

So in other words, the reason why so many christians exist, is because, at the end of their lives, they panicked and started to believe in Christianity because of fear!

Okay, i understand the actual message now. Thanks.

I don't think there are any parallels in that stories to believing Christians. its obviously is just meant to parallel the torment of hell itself.

Bishop Swanson says that preachers should not preach a great deal about Hell because the people are already too familiar with the hell's here on Earth, consequence from hellish living. the goal of any good sermon is to always, always leave to audience off with a message of hope because that is what the message of the cross provides.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/10/2011 1:49:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 12:54:39 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:24:20 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:17:49 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.

Just use the information that I've said to work out the actual message.

Ah, I get the message!

So in other words, the reason why so many christians exist, is because, at the end of their lives, they panicked and started to believe in Christianity because of fear!

Okay, i understand the actual message now. Thanks.

I don't think there are any parallels in that stories to believing Christians. its obviously is just meant to parallel the torment of hell itself.

Bishop Swanson says that preachers should not preach a great deal about Hell because the people are already too familiar with the hell's here on Earth, consequence from hellish living. the goal of any good sermon is to always, always leave to audience off with a message of hope because that is what the message of the cross provides.

God puts a gun to your head and says "hey, dont you want to live?" And you are telling us to ignore the gun and concentrate on what he is saying..... Right.
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/10/2011 3:12:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 1:49:11 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 12:54:39 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:24:20 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:17:49 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.

Just use the information that I've said to work out the actual message.

Ah, I get the message!

So in other words, the reason why so many christians exist, is because, at the end of their lives, they panicked and started to believe in Christianity because of fear!

Okay, i understand the actual message now. Thanks.

I don't think there are any parallels in that stories to believing Christians. its obviously is just meant to parallel the torment of hell itself.

Bishop Swanson says that preachers should not preach a great deal about Hell because the people are already too familiar with the hell's here on Earth, consequence from hellish living. the goal of any good sermon is to always, always leave to audience off with a message of hope because that is what the message of the cross provides.

God puts a gun to your head and says "hey, dont you want to live?" And you are telling us to ignore the gun and concentrate on what he is saying..... Right.

Dude, it's not God that sends you to hell. God WANTS you to go to heaven or He wouldn't have sent Jesus. We condemn ourselves to hell because of Satan and our sinful nature. It's our choice. Don't blame God.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Meatros
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5/10/2011 3:14:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:12:55 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Dude, it's not God that sends you to hell. God WANTS you to go to heaven or He wouldn't have sent Jesus. We condemn ourselves to hell because of Satan and our sinful nature. It's our choice. Don't blame God.

An all powerful entity isn't getting what it wants?

Also, what do you mean we condemn ourselves to hell because of Satan and our nature? So we don't have a choice in the matter?
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/10/2011 3:25:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:14:53 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/10/2011 3:12:55 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Dude, it's not God that sends you to hell. God WANTS you to go to heaven or He wouldn't have sent Jesus. We condemn ourselves to hell because of Satan and our sinful nature. It's our choice. Don't blame God.

An all powerful entity isn't getting what it wants?

Dude. It's free will, man. God didn't want an army of robo-humans saying, "Praise God." all day long. He wanted it to be a real, two sided love.

Also, what do you mean we condemn ourselves to hell because of Satan and our nature? So we don't have a choice in the matter?

Sorry, misspoke (mistyped?) a little bit. God doesn't say, "Go to hell, I hate you." It's just that someone has to forgive your sins. We condemn ourselves to hell because we choose evil over good. Most of the time.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/10/2011 3:44:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:12:55 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 5/10/2011 1:49:11 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 12:54:39 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:24:20 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 10:17:49 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 9:33:28 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:35:19 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 8:33:09 AM, Meatros wrote:
?

I'm uncertain as to your point - don't do a crime?

I'm with you there. The thread title hell? Not so much, since there is an empirical difference between the two.

I will leave it for you to work out. I've said my part.

I dont understand, there is nothing here to work out, anymore than you would feel threatened by a Muslim if he brought up the topic of hell.

Just use the information that I've said to work out the actual message.

Ah, I get the message!

So in other words, the reason why so many christians exist, is because, at the end of their lives, they panicked and started to believe in Christianity because of fear!

Okay, i understand the actual message now. Thanks.

I don't think there are any parallels in that stories to believing Christians. its obviously is just meant to parallel the torment of hell itself.

Bishop Swanson says that preachers should not preach a great deal about Hell because the people are already too familiar with the hell's here on Earth, consequence from hellish living. the goal of any good sermon is to always, always leave to audience off with a message of hope because that is what the message of the cross provides.

God puts a gun to your head and says "hey, dont you want to live?" And you are telling us to ignore the gun and concentrate on what he is saying..... Right.

Dude, it's not God that sends you to hell. God WANTS you to go to heaven or He wouldn't have sent Jesus. We condemn ourselves to hell because of Satan and our sinful nature. It's our choice. Don't blame God.

Three problems with that reasoning.

First, is that if God WANTS you to go to heaven, then he shouldve shown himself to everyone. Ive never seen or heard God. Yet many other people, including Paul/Saul, have. If God cared about Paul getting into heaven, and also cares about me getting into heaven, then why are his standards of evidence so lacking for me, but so obvious to paul?

Secondly, If someone puts a gun to your head, and orders you to do something or he will pull the trigger, guess what? You still have a choice there. You can either tell the person to fvck off, and die, or you can follow his instructions and live. But the fact that you have a choice, does NOT change the fact that you are still being coerced. This is why your argument FAILS.

Thirdly, do you believe that Muslims and Jews will go to hell? Many Christians do. Yet, they have chosen to actively try not to be condemned to hell. They accept that Sin and Satan exist, and they try to stave away from it, yet they may still be condemned to hellfire. So clearly sin and satan have little to do with being condemned to hell.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/10/2011 3:48:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 3:25:53 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Dude. It's free will, man. God didn't want an army of robo-humans saying, "Praise God." all day long. He wanted it to be a real, two sided love.

Let me ask you this. If you convince someone that something is true, is that evil, and are you denying that persons free will by convincing them?
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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5/10/2011 4:14:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
- Convincing somebody of anything is manipulation over free will. Manipulation is not a very good quality in my opinion.

- It seems that God waited a long time to send Jesus to die for our sins... Why did it take so long?

- What if I was raised in a family that was cut off from the outside world for generations? A family who had no knowledge of Jesus or any other religion? This family is a pure good hearted family who does believe in God. Their version of God.

They go to hell? God would burn them or cast them into the darkness?

I can't believe that the True God is like that. The God of the bible sounds like an evil God to me. An evil God that manipulates free will with fear.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Apollodoros
Posts: 27
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5/10/2011 4:20:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 4:14:07 PM, Lionheart wrote:
- Convincing somebody of anything is manipulation over free will. Manipulation is not a very good quality in my opinion.

- It seems that God waited a long time to send Jesus to die for our sins... Why did it take so long?

- What if I was raised in a family that was cut off from the outside world for generations? A family who had no knowledge of Jesus or any other religion? This family is a pure good hearted family who does believe in God. Their version of God.

They go to hell? God would burn them or cast them into the darkness?

I can't believe that the True God is like that. The God of the bible sounds like an evil God to me. An evil God that manipulates free will with fear.

Chances are, they made the God in the Bible the way they did to convince people that did not believe in God that if they did not believe and follow Him that they would be hit by a Plague or something of the kind.

If God truly does love us all, then how did we get the idea of sending people to Hell?
Apollodoros

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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/10/2011 4:23:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 4:14:07 PM, Lionheart wrote:
- Convincing somebody of anything is manipulation over free will. Manipulation is not a very good quality in my opinion.
Really? So if i convince someone that a scientific theory is true based on evidence, that is necessarily manipulation?
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 5:03:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's amazing how people will close tight their lips over things they know will be short lived, but over things that never end they seek no understanding of concern.

I will tell you the message, it is very straight forward in fact. That man who dazed out of consciousness because his understanding of expectation did not match what was true, had only 15 years in jail. He mentally equipped himself with a goal in mind, which was his family. Having that hope of knowing, one day I will be back with them, perhaps things won't be like they once were, but I will be with them in time.

Let me not bring argument or debate here but an open claim, an open possibility. Although hell is the wrath of God, hell is still hell. It is not a hell but the hell. Just as Jesus Christ was not a son of God but The Son of God.

That man was in for 15 years, and from that realisation of reality he dazed out, he became anxious and puzzled, although he knew he would be in there for 15 years he still wanted to know if anyone could do anything to minimise the time. He just wanted to speak to someone, anyone. In hell you will never speak to anyone, and further more, in hell there will be no hope. As that man so held on to, that was the only thing that kept him going.

People don't think about every possibility these days, they only think about what concerns them in what they believe to be true.
gizmo1650
Posts: 39
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5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 5:46:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.

Now this is why lying is one of the ten commandments. If lying was not a law to follow, then I would probably be tempted to pay you around £12.
tkubok
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5/10/2011 5:50:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 5:46:02 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.

Now this is why lying is one of the ten commandments. If lying was not a law to follow, then I would probably be tempted to pay you around £12.
Youre saying that God is LYING?
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 5:53:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 5:50:03 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:46:02 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.

Now this is why lying is one of the ten commandments. If lying was not a law to follow, then I would probably be tempted to pay you around £12.
Youre saying that God is LYING?

No that would be illogical, I am saying that gizmo1650 is telling fibs.
gizmo1650
Posts: 39
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5/10/2011 5:55:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 5:46:02 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.

Now this is why lying is one of the ten commandments. If lying was not a law to follow, then I would probably be tempted to pay you around £12.

How do you know I am lying. Granted I provided no evidence, but why take the chance. 20 earthly dollars against an eternity in hell, seems like an easy choice to me.

Also, because God is morally just, he sais it has to be american dollars, anything else would be unjust.
gizmo1650
Posts: 39
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5/10/2011 5:57:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 5:53:07 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:50:03 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:46:02 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.

Now this is why lying is one of the ten commandments. If lying was not a law to follow, then I would probably be tempted to pay you around £12.
Youre saying that God is LYING?

No that would be illogical, I am saying that gizmo1650 is telling fibs.

A little arrogant, don't you think. How do you know I am lying?
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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5/10/2011 6:00:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 5:55:07 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:46:02 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 5/10/2011 5:41:16 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
God told me, that anyone who does not give me $20 dollars will go to hell.
If you care about your immortal soul, pm me, and i will give you the info on how to give me money.

Now this is why lying is one of the ten commandments. If lying was not a law to follow, then I would probably be tempted to pay you around £12.

How do you know I am lying. Granted I provided no evidence, but why take the chance. 20 earthly dollars against an eternity in hell, seems like an easy choice to me.

Also, because God is morally just, he sais it has to be american dollars, anything else would be unjust.

I could say, 'God told me to say to you that He now doesn't want anyone to give you money.'. But I would have the same problem as you have already. Your just 16, life is great, your at the age where you've finished school and you don't have to get a job yet. What could be better? So yeah, why not make life just that a little more annoying for everyone else?
GodSands
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5/10/2011 6:08:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/10/2011 6:03:25 PM, gizmo1650 wrote:
Through what means do you determine that I am lying?

Salvation is through Christ alone! Give $20 to you isn't through Christ alone.