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Atheists and the supernatural ?

interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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5/12/2011 10:44:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If so let me ask you this. How many of you have ever experienced anything
supernatural before in your lifetime ? It may have been a dream or a premonition.
So where do you think those feelings or intuitive emotions come from ? It cannot be explained by science. I wanna know what is your thoughts on this.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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5/12/2011 10:54:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 10:44:32 AM, interrogator wrote:
If so let me ask you this. How many of you have ever experienced anything
supernatural before in your lifetime ?

nope

It may have been a dream or a premonition.

I've had dreams

So where do you think those feelings or intuitive emotions come from ?

God

It cannot be explained by science.

Of course not.. it's 'Super'-natural

I wanna know what is your thoughts on this.

my intuitive emotions come from my inner, Super, soul stuff...

and if that soul (which god made as it is) is bad.. I go to hell :(
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/12/2011 11:09:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 10:44:32 AM, interrogator wrote:
If so let me ask you this. How many of you have ever experienced anything
supernatural before in your lifetime ?

No.

It may have been a dream or a premonition.

Dreams aren't supernatural.

So where do you think those feelings or intuitive emotions come from ? It cannot be explained by science.

If you're still talking about dreams, they can be explained with purely physical explanations.

I wanna know what is your thoughts on this.

You can't understand why people can live without resorting to a man in the sky and so you look for anything that hasn't already been explained by science and jump on it as evidence of the supernatural. You don't have any real arguments for the supernatural existing.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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5/12/2011 11:36:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Social Pinko. Dreams may not be supernatural. But visions are. Anytime you
have a very vivid occurance that takes place in your subconscious mind that exposes a revelation or future event that means something. It is not a coincidence.
tkubok
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5/12/2011 11:39:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 11:36:16 AM, interrogator wrote:
Social Pinko. Dreams may not be supernatural. But visions are. Anytime you
have a very vivid occurance that takes place in your subconscious mind that exposes a revelation or future event that means something. It is not a coincidence.

And how do you differentiate a vision from a dream? If youre going to say "If it predicts the future, its a vision, and if it doesnt, its a dream", then congratulations, your argument fails.
Phoenix_Reaper
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5/12/2011 12:00:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 11:45:42 AM, Kinesis wrote:
It is not a coincidence.

It isn't just coincidence. It's coincidence + confirmation bias.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
interrogator
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5/12/2011 12:11:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A vision is more like a very vivid lifelike event that takes place during a certain state of consciousness. A dream is different. But both can predict the future.
So anyway. It is not coincidence. That is a secular definition.
Not confirmation biased.
interrogator
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5/12/2011 12:14:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Social Pinko. I do not expect for a carnal and shallow minded individual like you
to understand. You are too far gone and you have too many conflicting issues
internally. It does not matter what I say to you, or what I have as evidence.
Unless you were to see God with your own eyes, nothing I say matters.
So why bother.
tkubok
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5/12/2011 12:16:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:11:45 PM, interrogator wrote:
A vision is more like a very vivid lifelike event that takes place during a certain state of consciousness. A dream is different. But both can predict the future.
So anyway. It is not coincidence. That is a secular definition.
Not confirmation biased.

Yes, and dreams can be a very vivid lifelike event that takes place during a certain state of consiousness, i.e. Rem sleep.The dream of falling, for example, feels so real that you physically jolt your body up when you hit the ground.

But heres an example.

For every superbowl game that ever occurs, I randomly pick a winner. In the past 15 years, i have correctly chosen the winner, only twice.

By your logic, ive just predicted the winner.

Do you agree that I have predicted the winner twice?
interrogator
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5/12/2011 12:36:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Kubok. What you were doing was called chance. There is always that chance of
you picking the right one even if you are not aware of it.
This was your choice. A vision is something that happens unexpectedly most
of the time and it cannot be controlled by your mind randomly.
It is nothing random about it, it just happens unwillingly when in different state of
mind.
interrogator
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5/12/2011 12:38:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It is more like an event that foretells or exposes a future event. That means that you are dealing with supernatural forces as there is a purpose or reason behind
what you are witnessing or seeing without your natural eye.
tkubok
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5/12/2011 12:44:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:36:18 PM, interrogator wrote:
Kubok. What you were doing was called chance. There is always that chance of
you picking the right one even if you are not aware of it.
This was your choice. A vision is something that happens unexpectedly most
of the time and it cannot be controlled by your mind randomly.
It is nothing random about it, it just happens unwillingly when in different state of
mind.

First off, dreams are also based off of chance, too. Your dreams are based off of your memories, experienes and knowledge. It is why you never dream about speaking German, if youve never heard or knew the German language. And guess what? If you know what youre gonna do tommorow, then that is apart of your MEMORY and can appear in your dreams.

Secondly, it doesnt have to be my choice. If i randomly threw a dart to determine who to choose, the dart chose, not me. Your argument fails.

Thirdly, you still havent made the distinction between a dream and a vision. Yes, ive had very vivid dreams too, but i know they CANNOT BE TRUE because they consist of something supernatural, such as visiting a haunted island. And yes, when you are dreaming, you are ALSO in a different state of mind than if you were awake. Its called REM sleep.

So please, tell me, what exactly is the difference between a dream and a vision? Remember, both can be vivid, and both place you in a different state of mind. So what is the difference, really?
tkubok
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5/12/2011 12:46:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:38:07 PM, interrogator wrote:
It is more like an event that foretells or exposes a future event. That means that you are dealing with supernatural forces as there is a purpose or reason behind
what you are witnessing or seeing without your natural eye.

I had a dream that i was walking across the beach, and saw Godzilla rise from the waters. Is this a vision that foretells a future event?
interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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5/12/2011 12:47:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Kubok. You can get a dictionary or look online for the actual definition of what a
dream or a vision represents. Let me say this. A dream can be prophetic.
So that is more like a revelation or prophecy. A vision is more like a higher
state of subconsciousness. That is the best I can do with that. I think you do
know the difference. The fact that you Atheists are so consumed with wanting
proof about any and everything makes me wonder. I think it is indicative of
the confusion that you already have about your own existence. Anyway.
You know what it is. Dont act dumb ok. Thank you.
interrogator
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5/12/2011 12:49:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Kubok. What you had was just a dream. If it does not come to pass, then it is
not a revelation. If it is, then you will see it happen before your very eyes.
Science cannot explain this WITHOUT acknowledging the supernatural or
existence of God himself.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/12/2011 12:59:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:49:31 PM, interrogator wrote:
Kubok. What you had was just a dream. If it does not come to pass, then it is
not a revelation. If it is, then you will see it happen before your very eyes.
Science cannot explain this WITHOUT acknowledging the supernatural or
existence of God himself.

Argument from ignorance. Science has not yet explained something so it must be explained by god. You fail hard.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/12/2011 1:03:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:14:16 PM, interrogator wrote:
Social Pinko. I do not expect for a carnal and shallow minded individual like you
to understand. You are too far gone and you have too many conflicting issues
internally. It does not matter what I say to you, or what I have as evidence.
Unless you were to see God with your own eyes, nothing I say matters.
So why bother.

I agree kind of. You have brought no evidence so far and I doubt you will in the future. I love debating the existence of god though so if you have real evidence then challenge me. If not, stop trolling. You're an embarrassment to the smarter theists on this site.

Also, I am very open to evidence. I was just converted to AnCap. I am open to evidence of god just as I am open to evidence of objective morality, unicorns and anarchism. When you bring some evidence, call me.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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5/12/2011 1:21:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You will never come to the conclusion that God exists unless you are confronted
with a major issue which could be life altering. Other than that, it would be a
waste of time for you to even ask anyone to prove it to you.
So again. Why bother. Nothing I say or do can change your mind.
Unless you yourself see the Living God with thine own eyes, then you
will be relieved. The bad news is that will never happen until you are saved
and is able to see God in Heaven. You will see Him anyway soon, but by then it
may be too late for you as you will be judged.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/12/2011 1:30:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Unless you yourself see the Living God with thine own eyes, then you
will be relieved. The bad news is that will never happen until you are saved
and is able to see God in Heaven. You will see Him anyway soon, but by then it
may be too late for you as you will be judged.:

Fearmongering with fire and brimstone. You must have converts lined up around the block!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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5/12/2011 2:24:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Paradigm. To you it is the same. You are hopeless. You are another one that thinks in the same narrow way. You do not see, so you do not believe.
And that is where you fail because you lack faith. You live a life of zero
substance and you stand for nothing. Now why would you be proud of that.
Oh I know. Youre an Atheist. Please dont remind me. =)
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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5/12/2011 2:48:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:44:10 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/12/2011 12:36:18 PM, interrogator wrote:
Kubok. What you were doing was called chance. There is always that chance of
you picking the right one even if you are not aware of it.
This was your choice. A vision is something that happens unexpectedly most
of the time and it cannot be controlled by your mind randomly.
It is nothing random about it, it just happens unwillingly when in different state of
mind.

First off, dreams are also based off of chance, too. Your dreams are based off of your memories, experienes and knowledge. It is why you never dream about speaking German, if youve never heard or knew the German language. And guess what? If you know what youre gonna do tommorow, then that is apart of your MEMORY and can appear in your dreams.

I've had dreams where I've spoken a language I don't even know the name of. I've used words I've never seen before.

Secondly, it doesnt have to be my choice. If i randomly threw a dart to determine who to choose, the dart chose, not me. Your argument fails.

Thirdly, you still havent made the distinction between a dream and a vision. Yes, ive had very vivid dreams too, but i know they CANNOT BE TRUE because they consist of something supernatural, such as visiting a haunted island. And yes, when you are dreaming, you are ALSO in a different state of mind than if you were awake. Its called REM sleep.

So please, tell me, what exactly is the difference between a dream and a vision? Remember, both can be vivid, and both place you in a different state of mind. So what is the difference, really?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/12/2011 3:29:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 11:36:16 AM, interrogator wrote:
Social Pinko. Dreams may not be supernatural. But visions are. Anytime you
have a very vivid occurance that takes place in your subconscious mind that exposes a revelation or future event that means something. It is not a coincidence.

Psychic visions of the future are a testament to your own personal abilities, not a testament that God exists.

Why would you assume God exists just because of supernatural occurrences?

Apparitions, visions, etc. are all possible without god, nothing about these things need a god to exist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/12/2011 4:07:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:47:32 PM, interrogator wrote:
Kubok. You can get a dictionary or look online for the actual definition of what a
dream or a vision represents. Let me say this. A dream can be prophetic.
So that is more like a revelation or prophecy. A vision is more like a higher
state of subconsciousness. That is the best I can do with that. I think you do
know the difference. The fact that you Atheists are so consumed with wanting
proof about any and everything makes me wonder. I think it is indicative of
the confusion that you already have about your own existence. Anyway.
You know what it is. Dont act dumb ok. Thank you.
No, I don't know what the difference is, and the fact that you're accusing me that I do, makes me suspicious that In reality, you don't know the difference, either.

We've already determined that both dreams and visions occur in a different state of conscious, and can both be vivid and, according to you, both predict the future. So my question again, is, what is the DIFFERENCE of a dream and a vision?

But let me ask you another question. Do you think faeries exist?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/12/2011 4:10:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 12:49:31 PM, interrogator wrote:
Kubok. What you had was just a dream. If it does not come to pass, then it is
not a revelation. If it is, then you will see it happen before your very eyes.
Science cannot explain this WITHOUT acknowledging the supernatural or
existence of God himself.

This is what we call confirmation bias.

If I had fifty dreams about the superbowl, in which two of them rightly predicts the winner where the other 48 do not, tell me, are the two dreams revelation?
Lionheart
Posts: 520
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5/12/2011 7:40:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have dreams of people I have never seen, creatures that do not exist, experiences that I have never had... Like having the ability to fly.

This is due to a combination of personal consciousness in the soul and the primal consciousness that many religions call God.

God is just a name. But the existence of such a thing is hard for me to deny.

Do Atheists believe that life sprang from dead matter? If so, what is your reasoning behind this?
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/12/2011 8:26:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 2:48:02 PM, Indophile wrote:

I've had dreams where I've spoken a language I don't even know the name of. I've used words I've never seen before.

This is pretty powerful evidence it is often used to argue for supernatural possession, however it has often been found to be the mind retaining information that you are not conscious of. For example a babysitter when you were young that you can not remember spoke German.
quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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5/12/2011 8:29:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 10:44:32 AM, interrogator wrote:
If so let me ask you this. How many of you have ever experienced anything
supernatural before in your lifetime ? It may have been a dream or a premonition.

I've had dreams

So where do you think those feelings or intuitive emotions come from ? It cannot be explained by science.

It will be explained by science eventually

I wanna know what is your thoughts on this.

I'm not to quick in claiming it's a supernatural being.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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5/12/2011 8:33:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/12/2011 8:26:29 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/12/2011 2:48:02 PM, Indophile wrote:

I've had dreams where I've spoken a language I don't even know the name of. I've used words I've never seen before.

This is pretty powerful evidence it is often used to argue for supernatural possession, however it has often been found to be the mind retaining information that you are not conscious of. For example a babysitter when you were young that you can not remember spoke German.

Nope. I know all the languages I could've heard all through my life. I mean I don't know how to speak in all those languages, but I cannot have heard any other language other than those. I'm dead sure about that :)

I'm not arguing with your basic premise. It's just that the mind is capable of inventing stuff in dreams. A language is no exception. In which language would you speak to animals? I've done that. I'm sure I used some gibberish I invented on the spot :)
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.