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Proof positive that God IS good.

DATCMOTO
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5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Now, God was not talking about physical death as;

Genesis 5:5
Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.


He was referring to spiritual death; disconnection from God, the source of all love, peace, truth, wisdom and joy.

So, EVERY time you open a paper or turn on the news and see the seemingly endless cycle of murder/rape/incest/torture/abuse/betrayal/deception/cowardice/etc etc please please REMEMBER: God warned us; ONLY spiritually dead people can do the above.. and only spiritually dead people can observe the above and feel good that they are good COMPARED to them:

Genesis 3:11-13 (New International Version)

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"

The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."


LOST in the Garden of Eden YES we're LOST in the..
The Cross.. the Cross.
Thaddeus
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5/18/2011 5:21:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

So, EVERY time you open a paper or turn on the news and see the seemingly endless cycle of murder/rape/incest/torture/abuse/betrayal/deception/cowardice/etc etc please please REMEMBER: God warned us; ONLY spiritually dead people can do the above.. and only spiritually dead people can observe the above and feel good that they are good COMPARED to them:

I maybe misinterpreting you here, but surely you can't be saying that those who have the spirit (and have been made righteous in the eyes of the Lord) can not do those things? Paul writes in Romans that ;
"For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do"
and later that his life is wretched because he cannot do want he wants (obey Jesus).
Even those who are spiritually alive can disobey god.
DATCMOTO
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5/18/2011 5:25:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 5:21:39 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

So, EVERY time you open a paper or turn on the news and see the seemingly endless cycle of murder/rape/incest/torture/abuse/betrayal/deception/cowardice/etc etc please please REMEMBER: God warned us; ONLY spiritually dead people can do the above.. and only spiritually dead people can observe the above and feel good that they are good COMPARED to them:

I maybe misinterpreting you here, but surely you can't be saying that those who have the spirit (and have been made righteous in the eyes of the Lord) can not do those things? Paul writes in Romans that ;
"For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do"
and later that his life is wretched because he cannot do want he wants (obey Jesus).
Even those who are spiritually alive can disobey god.

Paul is talking about his pre-spiritual state; hence the start of Romans 8!
The Cross.. the Cross.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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5/18/2011 5:44:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Until right now I thought that song was called "In the Garden of Eden."

Don't tell anybody?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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tvellalott
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5/18/2011 5:57:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Back to the topic at hand...

What do you make of the snakes presence in the first place? Why would God create such a situation? It makes me question the supposed nature of the God; why create Humans as we are and expect us to unquestioningly obey?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
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Floid
Posts: 751
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5/18/2011 6:41:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The other day I was reading and came across a statement about someone only capable of "vacuous conversation". I had to look up the meaning of the term. But now you have given me a concrete example to which I can relate the word so hopefully I will not forget it. For that I thank you.
Meatros
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5/18/2011 7:40:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."



Yeah, you see, this just doesn't make any sense. God punishes A&E for something they had no knowledge of.

Adam and Eve didn't know it was evil to disobey God (how could they?), since they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge yet. So to punish them so severely for this seems absurd. In fact, the whole scenario seems absurd - do you truly believe this actually happened?

Also, I'm not sure how any of this (or the rest of your post) shows positive proof that God is good. Seems a non sequitur, how about you explain it?
rogue
Posts: 2,325
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5/18/2011 4:21:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is enough proof for you? It is posts like this that make me understand why George Bush was elected for two terms. First of all, why would he put them in a situation where if they ate something they would be punished for eternity? Why would you place your child right in front of a bus? He knew they would eat from it since he is all-knowing and therefore knows the future so he obviously didn't care enough about them to stop them. Why is he so angry that they disobeyed him that he feels the need to punish them for eternity? Plus since when is the Bible an absolutely infallible source? Do you know anything about how your holy book has come to be and changed over the years?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/18/2011 4:24:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If God = Actuality, and god must be good.. Good can only be truth.

God can't be anything other than good.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
tkubok
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5/19/2011 11:16:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
2 peter 3:8 says that a Day is like a thousand years to God, which explains why adam lived to be 900 years old, and THEN died. So no, DATCMOTO, your argument fails.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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5/20/2011 4:15:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Now, God was not talking about physical death as;


Im so Glad we have Dat to talk on Gods behalf, God forbid that God should talk for himself eh ? Would kind of ruin the religion racket.

Please tell us more of what God said, and what God means, cause clearly God has outsourced this job.......(this is sarcasm)
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/20/2011 4:43:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 5:57:07 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Back to the topic at hand...

What do you make of the snakes presence in the first place? Why would God create such a situation? It makes me question the supposed nature of the God; why create Humans as we are and expect us to unquestioningly obey?

BECAUSE of God's goodness He HAD to give His creation the choice to disobey Him and to reject Him.. or else it would have been a puppet show, a horror to a good, just and holy God.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
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5/20/2011 4:50:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 7:40:28 AM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."



Yeah, you see, this just doesn't make any sense. God punishes A&E for something they had no knowledge of.

Adam and Eve didn't know it was evil to disobey God (how could they?), since they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge yet. So to punish them so severely for this seems absurd. In fact, the whole scenario seems absurd - do you truly believe this actually happened?

Also, I'm not sure how any of this (or the rest of your post) shows positive proof that God is good. Seems a non sequitur, how about you explain it?

It not so much punishment as PHYSICS: sinful, fallen man cannot be part of God and a good, just and holy God cannot be part of fallen man; to be disconnected from God IS death.

Our fallen nature, creation itself is ALL mercy from God; we could have fallen straight back into nothingness.. but, by God's grace, we only fell so far.. and through, first the Jewish nation and then, Jesus Christ, God has made a way for us to re-enter into His presence.. Forever!
The Cross.. the Cross.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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5/20/2011 5:03:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 4:50:44 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/18/2011 7:40:28 AM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."



Yeah, you see, this just doesn't make any sense. God punishes A&E for something they had no knowledge of.

Adam and Eve didn't know it was evil to disobey God (how could they?), since they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge yet. So to punish them so severely for this seems absurd. In fact, the whole scenario seems absurd - do you truly believe this actually happened?

Also, I'm not sure how any of this (or the rest of your post) shows positive proof that God is good. Seems a non sequitur, how about you explain it?

It not so much punishment as PHYSICS: sinful, fallen man cannot be part of God and a good, just and holy God cannot be part of fallen man; to be disconnected from God IS death.


That's not actually physics....

Our fallen nature, creation itself is ALL mercy from God; we could have fallen straight back into nothingness.. but, by God's grace, we only fell so far.. and through, first the Jewish nation and then, Jesus Christ, God has made a way for us to re-enter into His presence.. Forever!

So it's a mercy that God set us up to fail and potentially go to Hell?

Um... What wouldn't be a mercy then?
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/20/2011 5:08:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/18/2011 4:21:21 PM, rogue wrote:
This is enough proof for you? It is posts like this that make me understand why George Bush was elected for two terms. First of all, why would he put them in a situation where if they ate something they would be punished for eternity? Why would you place your child right in front of a bus? He knew they would eat from it since he is all-knowing and therefore knows the future so he obviously didn't care enough about them to stop them. Why is he so angry that they disobeyed him that he feels the need to punish them for eternity? Plus since when is the Bible an absolutely infallible source? Do you know anything about how your holy book has come to be and changed over the years?

Do you bring children up in a padded cell? wrapped up in cotton wool? without the influence of other children?

The Garden of Eden scenario is played out in countless households every single day; a child spills some milk, breaks a cup, steals a cookie, is cruel to a pet etc.. the parent comes into the room, knowing FULL WELL the situation but ALWAYS gives the child the chance to either tell the truth or to lie;

" Who spilt the milk? "

" Who dropped the cup? "

" where did the last cookie go? "

" Why did the cat scratch you? did you pull her tail again? "

The answer to the above is usually " don't know.. " or " Not me.. " !

Now, Adam and Eve did not fall completely (expulsion from God's presence) as soon as they ate the fruit; God gave them a chance to come clean, (to repent) to stay in relationship with Him. (to admit one's sin is to be wrong IN RELATION to God's Word) only after they began accusing one another, (justifying THEMSELVES) was their fate sealed.

So; 'good compared to' (Eve, the serpent, the Gentiles, Samaritans, Hitler, Osama Bin Laden etc) equals SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS=DEATH.

And; 'obedient OR sinful in relation to God and His Word' equals TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS=LIFE.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/20/2011 5:12:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/19/2011 11:16:02 AM, tkubok wrote:
2 peter 3:8 says that a Day is like a thousand years to God, which explains why adam lived to be 900 years old, and THEN died. So no, DATCMOTO, your argument fails.

To God, not to Moses who actually compiled Genesis..
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
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5/20/2011 5:16:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 4:15:48 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Now, God was not talking about physical death as;


Im so Glad we have Dat to talk on Gods behalf, God forbid that God should talk for himself eh ? Would kind of ruin the religion racket.

Please tell us more of what God said, and what God means, cause clearly God has outsourced this job.......(this is sarcasm)

Abraham, Moses, the Prophets, His Only Begotten Son.. God always let's others talk for Him..

By the way, I just like to add how impressed I am with the way you have conducted yourself on DDO; your moral backbone, intellectual fearlessness and all-round nice-guy humour really has made this site a better place to be.. (now THAT'S what I call sarcasm.)
The Cross.. the Cross.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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5/20/2011 6:33:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 5:16:28 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/20/2011 4:15:48 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Now, God was not talking about physical death as;


Im so Glad we have Dat to talk on Gods behalf, God forbid that God should talk for himself eh ? Would kind of ruin the religion racket.

Please tell us more of what God said, and what God means, cause clearly God has outsourced this job.......(this is sarcasm)

Abraham, Moses, the Prophets, His Only Begotten Son.. God always let's others talk for Him..

By the way, I just like to add how impressed I am with the way you have conducted yourself on DDO; your moral backbone, intellectual fearlessness and all-round nice-guy humour really has made this site a better place to be.. (now THAT'S what I call sarcasm.)

Whats the matter Dat, don't like the fact pointed out that your talking on Gods behalf. God said this....
God said that.....
What God REALLY MEANS is.......

Lets all shut up and listen to what God says for himself shall we ?...............................Silence...........................Silence...............................More Silence............................
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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5/20/2011 7:37:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 5:16:28 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
By the way, I just like to add how impressed I am with the way you have conducted yourself on DDO; your moral backbone, intellectual fearlessness and all-round nice-guy humour really has made this site a better place to be.. (now THAT'S what I call sarcasm.)

So it's bringing the site down when he does it, yet...what... edifying when you do it?
pcp1976
Posts: 2
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5/20/2011 7:56:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It saddens me that so frequently religious debate rapidly descends into the trading of insults.

That aside; Dat I think the main issue I have with your argument is that you are attempting to use the bible as evidence - and I'm certain that there are few people who are not Christian that will accept the bible as uncorroborated evience, on the basis that the 'the word of God' carries no weight unless 'God' can be both defined accurately, and proven to exist in a manner which aderes to scientific methodology.

Of course, if one accepts (in my case for the purposes of argument) that the Christian god exists, and that the bible is his word, then if the bible says he is good then he must be so.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/21/2011 5:18:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 5:03:37 AM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/20/2011 4:50:44 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/18/2011 7:40:28 AM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."



Yeah, you see, this just doesn't make any sense. God punishes A&E for something they had no knowledge of.

Adam and Eve didn't know it was evil to disobey God (how could they?), since they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge yet. So to punish them so severely for this seems absurd. In fact, the whole scenario seems absurd - do you truly believe this actually happened?

Also, I'm not sure how any of this (or the rest of your post) shows positive proof that God is good. Seems a non sequitur, how about you explain it?

It not so much punishment as PHYSICS: sinful, fallen man cannot be part of God and a good, just and holy God cannot be part of fallen man; to be disconnected from God IS death.


That's not actually physics....

Yes it is. (I love unsubstantiated argument, don't you?) It's like oil and water; they don't mix.. neither does light and darkness: God and sin.

Our fallen nature, creation itself is ALL mercy from God; we could have fallen straight back into nothingness.. but, by God's grace, we only fell so far.. and through, first the Jewish nation and then, Jesus Christ, God has made a way for us to re-enter into His presence.. Forever!

So it's a mercy that God set us up to fail and potentially go to Hell?

Um... What wouldn't be a mercy then?

He's giving you a lifetime of living in semi-happy delusion, of making yourself your own god.. that's mercy.

God does not want you to go to hell, but (and we're back to physics again!) you cannot stand in His presence in your present condition.. you must come into RELATIONSHIP with Him, to declare yourself a sinner (because HE says so) is to be IN RELATION to Him and His Word, His Nature, His goodness..

Didn't someone once say that EVERYTHING'S relative? ;D
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/21/2011 5:21:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 6:33:30 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/20/2011 5:16:28 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/20/2011 4:15:48 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/18/2011 5:01:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Proof positive that the Judean Christian God of the bible is GOOD:

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Now, God was not talking about physical death as;


Im so Glad we have Dat to talk on Gods behalf, God forbid that God should talk for himself eh ? Would kind of ruin the religion racket.

Please tell us more of what God said, and what God means, cause clearly God has outsourced this job.......(this is sarcasm)

Abraham, Moses, the Prophets, His Only Begotten Son.. God always let's others talk for Him..

By the way, I just like to add how impressed I am with the way you have conducted yourself on DDO; your moral backbone, intellectual fearlessness and all-round nice-guy humour really has made this site a better place to be.. (now THAT'S what I call sarcasm.)

Whats the matter Dat, don't like the fact pointed out that your talking on Gods behalf. God said this....
God said that.....
What God REALLY MEANS is.......

Lets all shut up and listen to what God says for himself shall we ?...............................Silence...........................Silence...............................More Silence............................

Nothing the matter, just enjoying myself.. If you can't take it then don't give it!

and God DOES talk to me and DOES reveal His truth to me.. I know this seems remarkably unfair but didn't your Mom ever tell you that LIFE AINT FAIR?
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/21/2011 5:25:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 7:37:43 AM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/20/2011 5:16:28 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
By the way, I just like to add how impressed I am with the way you have conducted yourself on DDO; your moral backbone, intellectual fearlessness and all-round nice-guy humour really has made this site a better place to be.. (now THAT'S what I call sarcasm.)

So it's bringing the site down when he does it, yet...what... edifying when you do it?

I'm just showing you that if/when I choose, I can play 'the game' 5 times better than you guys.. I understand that you wish to 'have fun at the square Christians expense'.. that's fine, but don't spit your dummy (pacifier) out whenever I wanna have a little fun back..
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/21/2011 5:36:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 7:56:33 AM, pcp1976 wrote:
It saddens me that so frequently religious debate rapidly descends into the trading of insults.

That aside; Dat I think the main issue I have with your argument is that you are attempting to use the bible as evidence - and I'm certain that there are few people who are not Christian that will accept the bible as uncorroborated evience, on the basis that the 'the word of God' carries no weight unless 'God' can be both defined accurately, and proven to exist in a manner which aderes to scientific methodology.

Of course, if one accepts (in my case for the purposes of argument) that the Christian god exists, and that the bible is his word, then if the bible says he is good then he must be so.

John 19:14-19 (New International Version)
14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

"Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.

15 But they shouted, "Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!"

"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked.

"We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered.

16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

The Crucifixion of Jesus
So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.
19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.

The above represents exactly what is happening on this site and in the world at large ALL the time EVERY day: people use each others fallen nature (PRIDE) against one another by trying to insult them out of the picture.. the people who are at the top of the pile are masters of this and little else.

Jesus Christ and, to a lesser extent, Christians, is above this game as He has no pride in himself, only in His Father:

John 14:10
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.


John 3:34-36 34
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[a] gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.


Hallowed be YOUR NAME! (your Authority)
The Cross.. the Cross.
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/21/2011 7:36:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok, what the flip is up with all you guys saying, "Oh! God loves to send us to hell!" What the heck? I'm seriously questioning whether you guys can read or not. God isn't condemning you to hell. The whole reason He sent Jesus to die for us is so that we won't go to hell!

Besides, God gave us the CHOICE. It's a CHOICE. If we didn't have a CHOICE, then we would just be a bunch of robots saying, "Praise God!" all day long. That's not true love! True love is where I love and God, and God loves me. God wants us to love Him! Just because we made the wrong decision, doesn't mean that you can blame God for everything that goes wrong.

I know, we all look for a scapegoat, but we need to stop blaming God for everything that goes wrong in our lives and taking credit for everything good that happens to us.

Now, stop attacking Christians on the grounds that God isn't "good." If God exists, then God is definitely "good." Instead, question the existence of Jesus or something, but don't argue for the sake of arguing...
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Charles0103
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5/21/2011 7:39:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 7:36:44 AM, Charles0103 wrote:
Ok, what the flip is up with all you guys saying, "Oh! God loves to send us to hell!" What the heck? I'm seriously questioning whether you guys can read or not. God isn't condemning you to hell. The whole reason He sent Jesus to die for us is so that we won't go to hell!

Besides, God gave us the CHOICE. It's a CHOICE. If we didn't have a CHOICE, then we would just be a bunch of robots saying, "Praise God!" all day long. That's not true love! True love is where I love God, and God loves me. God wants us to love Him! Just because we made the wrong decision, doesn't mean that you can blame God for everything that goes wrong.

I know, we all look for a scapegoat, but we need to stop blaming God for everything that goes wrong in our lives and taking credit for everything good that happens to us.

Now, stop attacking Christians on the grounds that God isn't "good." If God exists, then God is definitely "good." Instead, question the existence of Jesus or something, but don't argue for the sake of arguing...

Fixed.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
tkubok
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5/21/2011 3:10:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 7:36:44 AM, Charles0103 wrote:
Ok, what the flip is up with all you guys saying, "Oh! God loves to send us to hell!" What the heck? I'm seriously questioning whether you guys can read or not. God isn't condemning you to hell. The whole reason He sent Jesus to die for us is so that we won't go to hell!
Bullsh*t. God is the one who made the rules. If God wanted to, he couldve easily just said "Okay, no more hell, youre all getting into heaven." That is something that isnt beyond Gods power. But he was the one who set the groundrules, he is the one who enforces it, and he is the one who sends us to hell.

And that is even more bull. God is basically going "I will shoot you in the head, UNLESS you love me". Jesus IS THE "UNLESS" in the story. Im seriously questioning whether you are retarded or just have tricked yourself into believing otherwise.

Besides, God gave us the CHOICE. It's a CHOICE. If we didn't have a CHOICE, then we would just be a bunch of robots saying, "Praise God!" all day long. That's not true love! True love is where I love and God, and God loves me. God wants us to love Him! Just because we made the wrong decision, doesn't mean that you can blame God for everything that goes wrong.

Fail, and more bullsh*t.

First off, if we are infact like children, and God is the parent, then there is nothing wrong with a parent who FORCEFULLY TAKES AWAY THE KNIFE from his child, EVEN if it violates the childs free will. If a parent sat around and watched his child play with a loaded gun, and the child shoots himself, EVERY court in the country would CONVICT the PARENT for NEGLIGENCE. Yes, it is the parents fault. And yes, you are correct in BLAMING the PARENT for the DEATH of the child.

Secondly, NOTHING stops God from CONVINCING us that Christianity is true. Unless you are saying that convincing someone that something is true, is inherently or somehow evil, nothing stops God from doing this. If he truly loves us EQUALLY, then he would NEVER show SOME people evidence, while OTHERS get NONE. Or what, does God love some more than others?

I know, we all look for a scapegoat, but we need to stop blaming God for everything that goes wrong in our lives and taking credit for everything good that happens to us.

No, I dont believe in God, so i dont blame him for anything. I cannot blame anything that i do not believe exists, that would be the equivalent of trying to convince myself that my missing socks were stolen by Unicorns.

What you need to do, though, is to stop giving credit of everything that goes right in your life, to God, but refusing to give credit to God for the bad things that happen. What Bullsh*t.

Now, stop attacking Christians on the grounds that God isn't "good." If God exists, then God is definitely "good." Instead, question the existence of Jesus or something, but don't argue for the sake of arguing...

No, God would only be "Good", because he is all powerful. Basically, we have a fiat dictator who is claiming that his word is law. And although the God of the bible is a classic "Do as i say, not as i do" hypocrite, he is also, according to you, a "Might makes Right" character as well.

But ask yourself this, and get back to me. How do you know that God is Good?
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/21/2011 3:41:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/21/2011 3:10:09 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/21/2011 7:36:44 AM, Charles0103 wrote:
Ok, what the flip is up with all you guys saying, "Oh! God loves to send us to hell!" What the heck? I'm seriously questioning whether you guys can read or not. God isn't condemning you to hell. The whole reason He sent Jesus to die for us is so that we won't go to hell!
Bullsh*t. God is the one who made the rules. If God wanted to, he couldve easily just said "Okay, no more hell, youre all getting into heaven." That is something that isnt beyond Gods power. But he was the one who set the groundrules, he is the one who enforces it, and he is the one who sends us to hell.

Ok, can you read, man? Seriously. I already addressed this. If God let us all go to heaven, we wouldn't have to love him. It's a choice, bruh.

And that is even more bull. God is basically going "I will shoot you in the head, UNLESS you love me". Jesus IS THE "UNLESS" in the story. Im seriously questioning whether you are retarded or just have tricked yourself into believing otherwise.

No, it's not God shooting you in the head, it's basically you trying to shoot yourself in the head. Jesus came to take the gun away.


Besides, God gave us the CHOICE. It's a CHOICE. If we didn't have a CHOICE, then we would just be a bunch of robots saying, "Praise God!" all day long. That's not true love! True love is where I love and God, and God loves me. God wants us to love Him! Just because we made the wrong decision, doesn't mean that you can blame God for everything that goes wrong.

Fail, and more bullsh*t.

First off, if we are infact like children, and God is the parent, then there is nothing wrong with a parent who FORCEFULLY TAKES AWAY THE KNIFE from his child, EVEN if it violates the childs free will. If a parent sat around and watched his child play with a loaded gun, and the child shoots himself, EVERY court in the country would CONVICT the PARENT for NEGLIGENCE. Yes, it is the parents fault. And yes, you are correct in BLAMING the PARENT for the DEATH of the child.

Ok, dude. It's not really a child/parent relationship; we compare it to that, because that's the easiest thing for us to understand. It's a creator/creation relationship. God wants us to have a choice; He didn't want a bunch of robo-puppets singing praises to God because they're programmed to! That's not true love!

Secondly, NOTHING stops God from CONVINCING us that Christianity is true. Unless you are saying that convincing someone that something is true, is inherently or somehow evil, nothing stops God from doing this. If he truly loves us EQUALLY, then he would NEVER show SOME people evidence, while OTHERS get NONE. Or what, does God love some more than others?

Ok, you said this a while ago on a different, and since you have short term memory loss or something, I'll say it again. The majority of people that saw Jesus do His miracles did NOT convert. Why are you so arrogant to think that if God appeared in front of you or you saw the Messiah that you would convert?


I know, we all look for a scapegoat, but we need to stop blaming God for everything that goes wrong in our lives and taking credit for everything good that happens to us.

No, I dont believe in God, so i dont blame him for anything. I cannot blame anything that i do not believe exists, that would be the equivalent of trying to convince myself that my missing socks were stolen by Unicorns.

Fair point. Nothing to argue about that.

What you need to do, though, is to stop giving credit of everything that goes right in your life, to God, but refusing to give credit to God for the bad things that happen. What Bullsh*t.

Ok, so is this all your good for? Saying everything I say is BS when you have ABSOLUTELY NO burden of proof at all? Why do Christians always have the burden of proof? The majority of people believe that there IS a momotheistic God, so if anything the burden of proof should be on the atheist.

Now, stop attacking Christians on the grounds that God isn't "good." If God exists, then God is definitely "good." Instead, question the existence of Jesus or something, but don't argue for the sake of arguing...

No, God would only be "Good", because he is all powerful. Basically, we have a fiat dictator who is claiming that his word is law. And although the God of the bible is a classic "Do as i say, not as i do" hypocrite, he is also, according to you, a "Might makes Right" character as well.

No, that would be if he didn't give us a choice :D

But ask yourself this, and get back to me. How do you know that God is Good?

Because since God is all powerful and the creator of the universe, what he says is "good" is "good." Remember, if there is no God, "good" and "evil" are subjective terms. Basically, there's no absolute set of Morales without God.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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5/21/2011 3:51:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If we all based our moral code off of the God portrayed in the bible then followers would be going around raping, killing, stealing, stoning and beating people, owning slaves, harshly judging people, etc.

And God saying that you either love me or you will burn in hell is not promoting free will it is promoting a dictatorship. You don't HAVE to love me... but if you don't....

You speak of God not wanting to create brainless robots... But all the people who follow the bible are no better than brainless robots. God gave you free will so you could CHOOSE to be a brainless robot? Funny way of thinking.