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Why did Jesus claim to be God?

kohai
Posts: 380
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5/22/2011 1:30:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I contend that Jesus claimed to be God for the simple fact that he wanted to start a revolution and a political movement.

What proof do I have? Well, in Jesus' life time, the emperors of Rome started to call themselves "God." Therefore, by calling himself the son of God, he was claiming to be the true "emperor"

This also explains why he was crucified as a rebel and not as a blasphemer.

I'm looking forward to the responses from Christians.
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/22/2011 2:09:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 1:30:06 PM, kohai wrote:
I contend that Jesus claimed to be God for the simple fact that he wanted to start a revolution and a political movement.

What proof do I have? Well, in Jesus' life time, the emperors of Rome started to call themselves "God." Therefore, by calling himself the son of God, he was claiming to be the true "emperor"

This also explains why he was crucified as a rebel and not as a blasphemer.

I'm looking forward to the responses from Christians.

Gee, I don't know! Maybe because He was God? Just a thought.

Seriously though, I'll find the exact verse, if you want, but the Pharisees and Sadducees did really accuse Him of Blasphemy. And can you give an exact verse or any evidence that claim he was crucified as a rebel?
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/22/2011 2:16:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Jesus said He was the Messiah multiple times, but He wouldn't directly. Why? He had to wait for the right time for Him to be arrested and crucified so that He could complete all of the OT prophecies.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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5/22/2011 2:19:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Argument from silence.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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5/22/2011 2:24:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 2:16:53 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Jesus said He was the Messiah multiple times, but He wouldn't directly. Why? He had to wait for the right time for Him to be arrested and crucified so that He could complete all of the OT prophecies.

You mean his disciples claimed that multiple times.
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/22/2011 2:28:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 2:24:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:16:53 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Jesus said He was the Messiah multiple times, but He wouldn't directly. Why? He had to wait for the right time for Him to be arrested and crucified so that He could complete all of the OT prophecies.

You mean his disciples claimed that multiple times.

Here's just some of the verses where Jesus says He's God:

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Mark 14:61b-62 [61b] Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" [62] "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Luke 22:66-70 [66] At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. [67] "If you are the Christ, " they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, [68] and if I asked you, you would not answer. [69] But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." [70] They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

These are just a few. There are many, many, MANY more.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/22/2011 3:15:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 2:28:02 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:24:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:16:53 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Jesus said He was the Messiah multiple times, but He wouldn't directly. Why? He had to wait for the right time for Him to be arrested and crucified so that He could complete all of the OT prophecies.

You mean his disciples claimed that multiple times.

Here's just some of the verses where Jesus says He's God:

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Mark 14:61b-62 [61b] Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" [62] "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Luke 22:66-70 [66] At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. [67] "If you are the Christ, " they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, [68] and if I asked you, you would not answer. [69] But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." [70] They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

These are just a few. There are many, many, MANY more.
When I sort out some things, we can debate all the points above.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/22/2011 3:16:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 2:19:39 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Argument from silence.
Not really. We know that Jesus was human. So there must have been made a claim to prove that he is more than that, otherwise we have no plain grounds for believing what is more than apparent.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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5/22/2011 3:23:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 3:16:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:19:39 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Argument from silence.
Not really. We know that Jesus was human. So there must have been made a claim to prove that he is more than that, otherwise we have no plain grounds for believing what is more than apparent.

Uh, yes really. It doesn't follow from the mere premise that jesus didnt claim to be God (which I don't accept anyhow) that therefore he was not God.
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Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/22/2011 4:09:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 3:10:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Just because he believed in a union with god does not mean he is god.

It's called the "holy trinity," bruh.

And does not mean he claimed to be THE god in any case.

Dude... Judaism is a monotheistic religion. Jesus was Jewish, not pagan. Of course He would be talking about "THE" God. And did you read the Bible verses I posted where Jesus directly says he's the Messiah?
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/22/2011 4:15:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oh. And one more thing, when Jesus says I and the Father are "one," He means that they are the same thing. It is a union, but not a union like you're thinking of. Jesus is God. God is Jesus.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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5/22/2011 4:38:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 4:15:50 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
It is a union, but not a union like you're thinking of.

So not a well developed, don't tell the wife bromance? :(
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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5/22/2011 5:58:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 4:38:30 PM, Puck wrote:
At 5/22/2011 4:15:50 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
It is a union, but not a union like you're thinking of.

So not a well developed, don't tell the wife bromance? :(

Perfect!
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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5/22/2011 6:42:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
kohai wrote: "I contend that Jesus claimed to be God for the simple fact that he wanted to start a revolution and a political movement."

I don't think he did claim to be God. I think that was a later development. I think that he might have claimed to have been the messiah - like a whole lot of other people did around that time.

I think the merging of this hellenistic idea (man + God = demigod) with a combing of the Hebrew scripture led to the early Christians proclaiming that Jesus was God.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/22/2011 7:16:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 3:23:09 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/22/2011 3:16:03 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:19:39 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/22/2011 2:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
It's obvious Jesus was a man or he would have told everyone he was God without fear. Funny there are no biblical verses where Jesus says "I am your God" eh?

Argument from silence.
Not really. We know that Jesus was human. So there must have been made a claim to prove that he is more than that, otherwise we have no plain grounds for believing what is more than apparent.

Uh, yes really. It doesn't follow from the mere premise that jesus didnt claim to be God (which I don't accept anyhow) that therefore he was not God.
It is not alone one the basis that he did not claim to be God. If he claimed that he was not equal to God, then we take his word for it. If others claimed that he was God, but he did not, then we must take his word over theirs and say that he never claimed divinity - only others did it for him.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/23/2011 5:15:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 1:30:06 PM, kohai wrote:
I contend that Jesus claimed to be God for the simple fact that he wanted to start a revolution and a political movement.

What proof do I have? Well, in Jesus' life time, the emperors of Rome started to call themselves "God." Therefore, by calling himself the son of God, he was claiming to be the true "emperor"

This also explains why he was crucified as a rebel and not as a blasphemer.

I'm looking forward to the responses from Christians.

Jesus IS God.

There is NO proof offered, ever. Just a call, a summons, to take courage, to risk everything on that small, quiet, still Voice.
The Cross.. the Cross.
twsurber
Posts: 505
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5/23/2011 2:14:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/22/2011 4:15:50 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
Oh. And one more thing, when Jesus says I and the Father are "one," He means that they are the same thing. It is a union, but not a union like you're thinking of. Jesus is God. God is Jesus.

1 John 5:13 describes the trinity. Jesus is God.
spiritislife
Posts: 94
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5/23/2011 2:15:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are ample verses in the NT which unequivocally point to Jesus Christ being God. The Jews also clearly understood that He was claiming to be equal to God a number of times; that is why they tried to stone Him repeatedly and crucified Him.

The bottom line is this. The Church teaches that Jesus Christ is God. His followers taught this. The Church has taught this about Jesus Christ from the very beginning. And as Jesus Christ in the Gospel says: 'he who dos not hear the Church is condemned'. (Matthew 18:17).

Muslims cannot dictate the terms as to how God can or cannot reveal Himself to mankind. If Jesus Christ did not outwardly come out and say to the Jews "I am God", it is because He thought there was a better way for Him to get people to believe in Him as God. (Would we believe anyone who would say to us "I am God"?).

Even though Jesus Christ is not recorded as saying the exact words "I am God", He said and did many many other things which give even greater reason to believe He is God, and it by no means discredits His claim to Divinity. Again, if He chose to reveal Himself the way He did, we must accept this with Faith and understand that in His infinite Wisdom and foreknowledge how He went about things was the best possible way for Him to reveal Himself to mankind.

"...Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved." - Acts 4:12
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/24/2011 4:57:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/23/2011 2:23:04 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/23/2011 5:15:57 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Jesus IS God.

So am I.

No, you're not.

There is NO proof offered, ever.

Same here!

Jesus IS God.

There is NO proof offered, ever. Just a call, a summons, to take courage, to risk everything on that small, quiet, still Voice.
The Cross.. the Cross.
igorm13777
Posts: 4
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5/30/2011 12:26:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/24/2011 4:57:41 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/23/2011 2:23:04 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/23/2011 5:15:57 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Jesus IS God.

So am I.

No, you're not.

There is NO proof offered, ever.

Same here!

Jesus IS God.

There is NO proof offered, ever. Just a call, a summons, to take courage, to risk everything on that small, quiet, still Voice.

Quick thought, if Jesus was God who was he praying to?...So lets say Jesus was god and than there's god up in heaven and than there's the trinity, this all seems to contradict the very first commandment, 1) worship NO OTHER Gods but me.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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5/30/2011 2:37:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/24/2011 4:57:41 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/23/2011 2:23:04 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/23/2011 5:15:57 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Jesus IS God.

So am I.

No, you're not.

There is NO proof offered, ever.

Same here!

Jesus IS God.

There is NO proof offered, ever. Just a call, a summons, to take courage, to risk everything on that small, quiet, still Voice.

My small quiet voice says Danielle is the god.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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5/30/2011 11:38:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I actually find it really funny that people try to defend something that cannot truly be known. Nobody knows what truly happened 2000 years ago, no matter what is written down in any book. I can write down what I think hapened in a book.... How does it make it any more invalid than the bible? Because it's what you want to believe. That's the only reason.

"Gorgamon was the son of God. The God incarnate who lived 7000 years ago on an island in an area that is now underwater, due to a volcano eruption. This is the island nation commonly referred to as Atlantis..." blah blah blah. I could make a nice story for you to believe in and I'm sure some people would believe it if I said that the spirit of Gorgamon (God) told me to write this book during a meditation that lasted 2 days....blah blah blah. Maybe in 2000 years it would become a well followed religion. Doesn't change the fat that it is a story that is not based off of intelligent reasoning or logical wisdom.

Nobody will know who Jesus really was or what he really did. It is lost to the ages of times past.

Believe what you want though. Faith is solid when based off of logical wisdom, not when it is blind. Blind faith is for fools and weakness in my opinion.

But hey... I could be wrong.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/31/2011 5:52:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 12:26:25 PM, igorm13777 wrote:
At 5/24/2011 4:57:41 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 5/23/2011 2:23:04 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/23/2011 5:15:57 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Jesus IS God.

So am I.

No, you're not.

There is NO proof offered, ever.

Same here!

Jesus IS God.

There is NO proof offered, ever. Just a call, a summons, to take courage, to risk everything on that small, quiet, still Voice.


Quick thought, if Jesus was God who was he praying to?...So lets say Jesus was god and than there's god up in heaven and than there's the trinity, this all seems to contradict the very first commandment, 1) worship NO OTHER Gods but me.

He was praying to His Father Who is ALSO God; God begets God, Jesus is His ONLY Begotten Son.

Pour your self a glass of water from a jug; the water is now two separate entities but the are the same still, they are still one:

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God's Son'?


John 10:29-30 (New International Version 1984)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."
The Cross.. the Cross.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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5/31/2011 6:14:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The Trinity doctrine came about because scriptures adamantly declare there is one God yet we have 3 persons claiming deity. John 1:1 in the beginning the word was with God and the word was God- later the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus claimed to forgive sins which was strictly reserved for God. Jesus says that before Abraham was "I am". Only God is eternal yet 'everything that was made was made through Christ' which implies Christs eternal nature. When Jesus appeared to Thomas Thomas said 'My Lord and my God'. Isaiah prophesies that the Messiah would be called mighty God. Jesus prayed to the Father which destroys the idea of Modalism. If Jesus was intending on creating a revolution why would he say things saying that his kingdom is in heaven not an earthly one?? What kind of revolutionist picks the disciples he did?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,212
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5/31/2011 5:50:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/31/2011 5:52:12 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

He was praying to His Father Who is ALSO God; God begets God, Jesus is His ONLY Begotten Son.

Pour your self a glass of water from a jug; the water is now two separate entities but the are the same still, they are still one:

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God's Son'?



John 10:29-30 (New International Version 1984)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."


if it's the same water, they are praying to themselves.
So you're a polytheist.. mmkay.
igorm13777
Posts: 4
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5/31/2011 9:38:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/31/2011 5:50:52 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/31/2011 5:52:12 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

He was praying to His Father Who is ALSO God; God begets God, Jesus is His ONLY Begotten Son.

Pour your self a glass of water from a jug; the water is now two separate entities but the are the same still, they are still one:

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God's Son'?



John 10:29-30 (New International Version 1984)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."


if it's the same water, they are praying to themselves.
So you're a polytheist.. mmkay.

Exactly...I agree with GreyParrot. How can you say that God begets another God and still claim that that is one God. When I have a son he will not be me or a part of me but another human being when you count us we will be counted as TWO human beings.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/1/2011 5:28:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/31/2011 5:50:52 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 5/31/2011 5:52:12 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

He was praying to His Father Who is ALSO God; God begets God, Jesus is His ONLY Begotten Son.

Pour your self a glass of water from a jug; the water is now two separate entities but the are the same still, they are still one:

John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God's Son'?



John 10:29-30 (New International Version 1984)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."


if it's the same water, they are praying to themselves.
So you're a polytheist.. mmkay.

The Same, separated!
The Cross.. the Cross.