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Evolution

vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/30/2011 12:16:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why would God bother with evolution? All that this method has done is cause unbelief and so I ask, what's the point? Makes one wonder.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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5/30/2011 5:34:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are a lot of things that God has caused or allowed to happen that theists tend to claim is all a part of the unknown plan for the universe. Examples being: starvation, natural disasters, mass murderers.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/30/2011 5:43:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 5:34:29 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Evil is a problem for theists.
Wrong thread, bro.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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5/30/2011 5:46:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 12:16:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
Why would God bother with evolution? All that this method has done is cause unbelief and so I ask, what's the point? Makes one wonder.

Indeed. It's almost like the Bible was created by men who had no concept of science, rather than via magical eared prophets.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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5/30/2011 6:04:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 5:43:09 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 5:34:29 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Evil is a problem for theists.
Wrong thread, bro.

You misunderstand. I'm just saying that there are other things that people have claimed god did that don't seem to make sense and yet they claim that it's all part of god's mysterious plan. I don't see how the situation is any different for evolution. If someone is willing to accept that god does things that we don't understand, then it follows that evolution could potentially be one of those things. That is, of course, unless I'm misunderstanding and you are simply trying to decipher god's reason for causing evolution to occur.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/30/2011 6:30:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 6:04:06 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 5/30/2011 5:43:09 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 5:34:29 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Evil is a problem for theists.
Wrong thread, bro.

You misunderstand. I'm just saying that there are other things that people have claimed god did that don't seem to make sense and yet they claim that it's all part of god's mysterious plan. I don't see how the situation is any different for evolution. If someone is willing to accept that god does things that we don't understand, then it follows that evolution could potentially be one of those things. That is, of course, unless I'm misunderstanding and you are simply trying to decipher god's reason for causing evolution to occur.

Evil isn't one of them but evolution is, though the two are connected.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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5/30/2011 6:42:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why do you say there's a difference?
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/30/2011 7:22:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 6:42:34 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Why do you say there's a difference?

Evil, on the other hand, seems like a natural step for the Christian God to take (even if one disagrees with the quantity) while evolution is an odd and misleading way for God to create the universe.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/30/2011 7:42:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 12:16:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
Why would God bother with evolution?

This is a long debate, Dr. Rainbow in the middle talks about God through evolution :
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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5/30/2011 7:58:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 7:22:19 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 6:42:34 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Why do you say there's a difference?

Evil, on the other hand, seems like a natural step for the Christian God to take (even if one disagrees with the quantity) while evolution is an odd and misleading way for God to create the universe.

1) Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of the universe
2) God hasn't (atleast not recently) ever been exceedingly clear on much including whether or not he exists. Why should he be any more obvious with evolution.
3) Just speculating for fun, maybe god created natural selection and beneficial mutations in order to make nature seem less boring and stagnant.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/30/2011 8:00:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 7:42:47 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/30/2011 12:16:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
Why would God bother with evolution?

This is a long debate, Dr. Rainbow in the middle talks about God through evolution :



I'll check it out.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/30/2011 8:01:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 7:58:12 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 5/30/2011 7:22:19 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 6:42:34 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Why do you say there's a difference?

Evil, on the other hand, seems like a natural step for the Christian God to take (even if one disagrees with the quantity) while evolution is an odd and misleading way for God to create the universe.

1) Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of the universe
2) God hasn't (atleast not recently) ever been exceedingly clear on much including whether or not he exists. Why should he be any more obvious with evolution.
3) Just speculating for fun, maybe god created natural selection and beneficial mutations in order to make nature seem less boring and stagnant.

This is very controversial.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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5/30/2011 8:21:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 8:01:28 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 7:58:12 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 5/30/2011 7:22:19 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 6:42:34 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Why do you say there's a difference?

Evil, on the other hand, seems like a natural step for the Christian God to take (even if one disagrees with the quantity) while evolution is an odd and misleading way for God to create the universe.

1) Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of the universe
2) God hasn't (atleast not recently) ever been exceedingly clear on much including whether or not he exists. Why should he be any more obvious with evolution.
3) Just speculating for fun, maybe god created natural selection and beneficial mutations in order to make nature seem less boring and stagnant.

This is very controversial.

Exactly! You'd think that god would know how much is enough to convince anybody of anything. That's why it shouldn't be controversial, it should be flat wrong. I know this is nothing new but a god that knows peoples' belief limits should have no problem using that to convince people that he exists.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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5/30/2011 10:46:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Evolution is much more than it is given credit for. Evolution is actually very efficient and allows for constant adaptation. Life is just using the bodies like tools. Different tools are needed dependng on the environment. Evolution does this.

It's like how humans evolve buildings, vehicles, technology, clothing, etc.

Why wouldn't God do the same thing? God made a universe that is in a constant state of change, evolution fits perfectly towards this scenario.

Think of it like a big computer program. We don't develop just one kind of computer AI and expect it to work the best in all situations do we? No, it's much more efficient to develope a computer AI that evolves depending on the situation or environment.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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5/30/2011 10:51:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 10:46:09 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

No, it's much more efficient to develope a computer AI that evolves depending on the situation or environment.

That is exactly the argument that Rainbow makes. It really is worth scanning the debate to see his demonstrations. He has a simulation which shows how populations evolve in real time with 3D graphics, it is extremely clear.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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5/30/2011 11:00:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 10:51:51 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 5/30/2011 10:46:09 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

No, it's much more efficient to develope a computer AI that evolves depending on the situation or environment.

That is exactly the argument that Rainbow makes. It really is worth scanning the debate to see his demonstrations. He has a simulation which shows how populations evolve in real time with 3D graphics, it is extremely clear.

I'm so glad to find something that we both agree on Cliff.... LOL. Truly.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/31/2011 5:28:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 12:16:02 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
Why would God bother with evolution? All that this method has done is cause unbelief and so I ask, what's the point? Makes one wonder.

If you mean 'speciation' then God built it into the gene code as a survival mechanism against climate change etc.

If you mean 'all creatures evolved from a single cell organism' then, He didn't.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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5/31/2011 7:03:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
DATCMOTO wrote: "If you mean 'speciation' then God built it into the gene code as a survival mechanism against climate change etc."

This is actually nonsense.

DATCMOTO wrote: "If you mean 'all creatures evolved from a single cell organism' then, He didn't."

Right, why would he? All God would have to do is set up a universe that works through natural laws.

The odd thing is that you seem to accept speciation, yet reject what I'm guessing you would refer to as macroevolution. You do both with a straight face.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/31/2011 10:50:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/30/2011 8:21:47 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 5/30/2011 8:01:28 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 7:58:12 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 5/30/2011 7:22:19 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
At 5/30/2011 6:42:34 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
Why do you say there's a difference?

Evil, on the other hand, seems like a natural step for the Christian God to take (even if one disagrees with the quantity) while evolution is an odd and misleading way for God to create the universe.

1) Evolution has nothing to do with the creation of the universe
2) God hasn't (atleast not recently) ever been exceedingly clear on much including whether or not he exists. Why should he be any more obvious with evolution.
3) Just speculating for fun, maybe god created natural selection and beneficial mutations in order to make nature seem less boring and stagnant.

This is very controversial.

Exactly! You'd think that god would know how much is enough to convince anybody of anything. That's why it shouldn't be controversial, it should be flat wrong. I know this is nothing new but a god that knows peoples' belief limits should have no problem using that to convince people that he exists.
It can be clear and controversial especially if it's a life-changing issue.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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6/1/2011 5:25:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/31/2011 7:03:36 AM, Meatros wrote:
DATCMOTO wrote: "If you mean 'speciation' then God built it into the gene code as a survival mechanism against climate change etc."

This is actually nonsense.

DATCMOTO wrote: "If you mean 'all creatures evolved from a single cell organism' then, He didn't."

Right, why would he? All God would have to do is set up a universe that works through natural laws.

The odd thing is that you seem to accept speciation, yet reject what I'm guessing you would refer to as macroevolution. You do both with a straight face.

I accept the Bible as true; I cannot, nor do I desire to, prove that it is true: only God can reveal that to you..

I can, however, endeavour to refute all claims that are contrary to the Bible: so called 'evolution theory' sets itself up in direct opposition to God's Word.

The mistake you (and others) are forever making can be summed up as 'Out of the Question': the context (such as evolution or dinosaurs etc) is IF there is a God and the Bible be true, then? but you continually slip out of this context, out of the question!

All I EVER have to do is show that the Bible is completely logical and self contained.. NOTHING else.
The Cross.. the Cross.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/1/2011 5:28:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
DATC, have you ever considered the possibility that evolution and the Bible are not mutually exclusive?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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6/1/2011 7:04:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
DATCMOTO wrote: "I accept the Bible as true; I cannot, nor do I desire to, prove that it is true: only God can reveal that to you.."

Yes, you believe it because you believe it.

DATCMOTO wrote: "I can, however, endeavour to refute all claims that are contrary to the Bible: so called 'evolution theory' sets itself up in direct opposition to God's Word."

I suppose you can try. You haven't been successful so far though.

DATCMOTO wrote: "The mistake you (and others) are forever making can be summed up as 'Out of the Question': the context (such as evolution or dinosaurs etc) is IF there is a God and the Bible be true, then? but you continually slip out of this context, out of the question!"

Then, what? I actually used to be a Christian AND I accepted modern science. So your question is absurd.

DATCMOTO wrote: "All I EVER have to do is show that the Bible is completely logical and self contained.. NOTHING else."

And so is the LOTR. Do you worship Gandalf?