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Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/10/2011 9:10:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

There is nothing spiritual about quantum physics.

There is nothing spiritual in science, period. And never will be.

The end.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/10/2011 9:12:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

I'd like to think people would began to treat science like they treat religion.
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Brainmaster
Posts: 1,603
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6/10/2011 9:15:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:12:23 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

I'd like to think people would began to treat science like they treat religion.

And DDO will jump back 5000 years.
Kfc.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/10/2011 9:18:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:12:23 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

I'd like to think people would began to treat science like they treat religion.

I would hate to see that. There's a lot of people who already do.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/10/2011 9:23:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

What's spiritual about quantum physics? It's science, which is a completely different matter.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/10/2011 9:39:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:23:50 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

What's spiritual about quantum physics? It's science, which is a completely different matter.

Study quantum physics and spirituality. There are plenty of books on it.

Quantum Science is starting to bridge the gap.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/10/2011 9:41:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:10:07 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

There is nothing spiritual about quantum physics.

Fail.


There is nothing spiritual in science, period. And never will be.

Fail.

The end.

Fail.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/10/2011 9:47:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Justin, I'm on your side on this issue but you are not making a proper presentation for your views. Your last two posts are kind of a dumb move. Explain to us how quantum physics has anything to do with spirituality and why it's a good thing to accept it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/10/2011 9:53:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:39:24 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:23:50 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

What's spiritual about quantum physics? It's science, which is a completely different matter.

Study quantum physics and spirituality. There are plenty of books on it.

Quantum Science is starting to bridge the gap.

This doesn't answer my question. If you want me to accept your statement that quantum physics and spirituality is related, you are going to have to at least try to explain that.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/10/2011 9:56:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:39:24 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Study quantum physics and spirituality. There are plenty of books on it.

Quantum Science is starting to bridge the gap.

I have studied quite a bit of quantum physics, but i do not see the bridge. There are plenty of books on it, just like there are plenty of books on alien abductions. Doesnt mean they are scientific, though.

The easiest way to settle this, is for you to actually bring up a point or explanation as to how Quantum physics even remotely hints at anything spiritual. Please, present your argument and/or evidence.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/10/2011 9:57:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:41:52 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:10:07 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

There is nothing spiritual about quantum physics.

Fail.
How so?

There is nothing spiritual in science, period. And never will be.

Fail.
How so?


The end.

Fail.
How so?

Simply saying "Fail" does not mean it does, just like simply saying "Fail" as a rebuttal in a debate, clearly makes you look like a retard, and makes you lose the debate.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/10/2011 10:17:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:56:42 PM, tkubok wrote:

I have studied quite a bit of quantum physics, but i do not see the bridge.

That is because you do not read the right books obviously. Read Chopra, he is always jamming on about quantum healing through spirituality. Dawkins interviews him and corners him on the topic and gets him to admit on camera that when he says quantum it does not mean anything to do with quantum as it is used in physics. When Dawkins asks him why he does it, Chopra argues that physicists don't own the word quantum anyway.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/10/2011 10:19:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:12:23 PM, tvellalott wrote:

I'd like to think people would began to treat science like they treat religion.

In what manner?
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/10/2011 10:20:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 9:53:45 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:39:24 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:23:50 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:05:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
I feel that science and spirituality will combine in the future of the human race. I think that this will be the next big chapter in the book of human history.

Quantum science is paving the path.

Thoughts?

What's spiritual about quantum physics? It's science, which is a completely different matter.

Study quantum physics and spirituality. There are plenty of books on it.

Quantum Science is starting to bridge the gap.

This doesn't answer my question. If you want me to accept your statement that quantum physics and spirituality is related, you are going to have to at least try to explain that.

Well, I can give you my personal feelings... But that is not the point I am trying to make. The point I am trying to make is that people are going to start using science to support their spiritual beliefs. I think this movement will gain enough momentum to change human history in a big way.

I will give you some things that quantum science now confirms. Some of the things give weight to and have been a part of certain spiritual views for quite some time.

1.) That everything is connected by a universal energy. (God or any other name for it)

2.) That substance can both exist as particles or waves, results depending on the consciousness of the observer.

(That we can manipulate the "matter" around us through conscious thought. Some versions of spirituality term this as "magic")

3.) Human emotion effects DNA even if it is detached from the source.

(This principal is used in many forms of spiritual activity... Telepathy, Clairvoyance, Faith healing, "magic", etc.)

4.) The connection between two coordinates on this energy field can travel instantaneously, faster than the speed of light.

(spiritual magic)

5.) Teleportation is possible, and is documented on a sub-atomic level.

(spiritual magic)
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/10/2011 10:38:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:20:16 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

I will give you some things that quantum science now confirms.

Quantum Theory confirms none of the jibberish you posted about spiritual energy or magiks - want to debate any of the above nonsense?
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/11/2011 2:17:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Justin, I suggest you look up "quantum woo".
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Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/11/2011 4:56:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:38:51 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/10/2011 10:20:16 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

I will give you some things that quantum science now confirms.

Quantum Theory confirms none of the jibberish you posted about spiritual energy or magiks - want to debate any of the above nonsense?

No, quantum physics confirms the original points I made. I added the spiritual context to show how it can be applied to spiritual beliefs.

I will debate the fact that there are documented scientific experiments confirming the original points being made in 1-5 of my post.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/11/2011 6:29:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 4:56:19 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

I will debate the fact that there are documented scientific experiments confirming the original points being made in 1-5 of my post.

Ok, start out with by justifying how the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Theory can be affirmed over interpretations which do not have wave function collapse (i.e. observer effect). If you can not do that then your entire argument falls apart before it even begins. You also have to be able to argue a number of details such as for example that a photon (electron, etc.) is "conscious" as they will induce "the observer effect".

Once you can do that (which no Physicist has ever been able to do), you then have to breach the gap between the confirmation of physical observables and affirmation of a non-physical and non-testable hypothesis/source. I would suggest you start with Bell's theorem which eliminates "hidden variables" and understand what that means and its implications.

Note even if you can just do the first part alone you have a walk-in PhD in Physics and will easily be recognized as the greatest physicist of modern times. If you do not understand how to get that, do not be concerned I will present your argument to a theoretical physicist and get him to advance your degree. All I will need to know is the particular mathematical framework you will be using because depending on what way you argue it would be better to have a specific supervisor.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/11/2011 7:23:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 6:29:41 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/11/2011 4:56:19 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

I will debate the fact that there are documented scientific experiments confirming the original points being made in 1-5 of my post.

Ok, start out with by justifying how the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Theory can be affirmed over interpretations which do not have wave function collapse (i.e. observer effect). If you can not do that then your entire argument falls apart before it even begins. You also have to be able to argue a number of details such as for example that a photon (electron, etc.) is "conscious" as they will induce "the observer effect".

Once you can do that (which no Physicist has ever been able to do), you then have to breach the gap between the confirmation of physical observables and affirmation of a non-physical and non-testable hypothesis/source. I would suggest you start with Bell's theorem which eliminates "hidden variables" and understand what that means and its implications.

Note even if you can just do the first part alone you have a walk-in PhD in Physics and will easily be recognized as the greatest physicist of modern times. If you do not understand how to get that, do not be concerned I will present your argument to a theoretical physicist and get him to advance your degree. All I will need to know is the particular mathematical framework you will be using because depending on what way you argue it would be better to have a specific supervisor.

I don't need to do anything Cliff. Physicists just as qualified or even more qualified than you have already conducted the experiments with documented results. Go cry to them with your arguments. You act like you are the only physicist on the planet. Their are plenty of physicists that feel very differently about the universe than you do. I'm sure you and Planck would have hated each other.

Either way, go cry to the physicists who oppose your views. I am only backing what they say, joining their way of thinking. I assume that your way of thinking will become a rapidly dying breed in the world of science. Just as religious men have always been a part of science, so too shall spiritual men take over the ranks of science in the future.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/11/2011 7:53:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/10/2011 10:17:35 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:56:42 PM, tkubok wrote:

I have studied quite a bit of quantum physics, but i do not see the bridge.

That is because you do not read the right books obviously. Read Chopra, he is always jamming on about quantum healing through spirituality. Dawkins interviews him and corners him on the topic and gets him to admit on camera that when he says quantum it does not mean anything to do with quantum as it is used in physics. When Dawkins asks him why he does it, Chopra argues that physicists don't own the word quantum anyway.

Again, its easiest if you will simply provide an argument you believe supports your cause. The fact that you have been told twice by two different people, but do not, shows us that you would rather not, because you know that you would fail in defending it.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/11/2011 8:12:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 7:53:55 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/10/2011 10:17:35 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:56:42 PM, tkubok wrote:

I have studied quite a bit of quantum physics, but i do not see the bridge.

That is because you do not read the right books obviously. Read Chopra, he is always jamming on about quantum healing through spirituality. Dawkins interviews him and corners him on the topic and gets him to admit on camera that when he says quantum it does not mean anything to do with quantum as it is used in physics. When Dawkins asks him why he does it, Chopra argues that physicists don't own the word quantum anyway.

Again, its easiest if you will simply provide an argument you believe supports your cause. The fact that you have been told twice by two different people, but do not, shows us that you would rather not, because you know that you would fail in defending it.

I did provide an argument.

1-5 of my previous post.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/11/2011 11:43:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 8:12:22 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/11/2011 7:53:55 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/10/2011 10:17:35 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/10/2011 9:56:42 PM, tkubok wrote:

I have studied quite a bit of quantum physics, but i do not see the bridge.

That is because you do not read the right books obviously. Read Chopra, he is always jamming on about quantum healing through spirituality. Dawkins interviews him and corners him on the topic and gets him to admit on camera that when he says quantum it does not mean anything to do with quantum as it is used in physics. When Dawkins asks him why he does it, Chopra argues that physicists don't own the word quantum anyway.

Again, its easiest if you will simply provide an argument you believe supports your cause. The fact that you have been told twice by two different people, but do not, shows us that you would rather not, because you know that you would fail in defending it.

I did provide an argument.

1-5 of my previous post.

Sorry, i thought you were Cliffstamp. In any case, heres my response.

Point 1, no, science has not found any evidence of any universal energy. The closest theyve come to is trying to put a name on it, i.e. the unified field theory, but even that is not an actual formulated theory. Science does not support this, therefore this argument fails.

Point 2. No, it does not depend on the consciousness of the observer. Its not as if the observer can consciously control whether it is wave or particle. Nothing magical about this.

Point 3. Source? Ive never heard of this in science, ever. If it were true, and experimentally proven, then it would be a groundbreaking discovery for biology and theists. Where are the case studies? Report in the science journals?

Point 4. If you are talking about Quantum entanglement, more failure on your part. When particles enter the same quantum state, that is basically the same as two planets spinning in the same direction. Nothing magical about that.

Pointn 5. If you are talking about Quantum teleportation, again, no. Only the Qubit is being teleported, and not the actual subatomic particle or system or anything else. Again, this is a far cry from what we would consider as "Teleportation", and there is nothing supernatural.

I dont see the connection. If i have a Machine Gun, and show it to an Incan tribe which had been isolated for the past 1000 years, it may seem like magic to them, like a supernatural power. But that doesnt make the Machine Gun as proof that the supernatural exists.

Your argument fails.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/13/2011 12:38:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 7:23:43 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:

I don't need to do anything Cliff. Physicists just as qualified or even more qualified than you have already conducted the experiments with documented results

Then debate me if you are so confident. I even told you what my first rebuttal will me so it should not be so hard.

I am only backing what they say, joining their way of thinking.

No, you are quoting a bunch of jibberish. Again debate me if you think you can link actual experiments in physics to your mystical jibberish.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/13/2011 12:53:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:43:34 PM, tkubok wrote:

Point 3. Source?

You know the "research" that Uri Geller does, similar to that. The military apparently (probably in area 51) took DNA from a guy, put it in another room, showed the guy Dane Cook's standup for 8 hours straight until the guy was about to commit suicide. This apparently then had produced a "difference" in the DNA in the swab in the other room. And no, these are not double-blind studies, not peer reviewed, significantly repeated, etc. . But Justin accepts all of these instantly because they fit into the world he wants to see and thus they have to be true.

This is nothing new to science, it has been around since science began. The reason for rocks falling was originally as God had intended them to be there, it was the natural balance. The "mysterious aether" that was supposed to allow light to travel which permeated though all of space and time. The means for action at a distance, how did electro-magnetic waves "communicate" with each other? Now it is entanglement, "spooky" action at a distance.

In each case it is something that when first discovered seems odd, and of course the physicists see this as a beautiful and wonderful thing and try to discover how it works. And a bunch of nobs reduce it to new age jibberish to sell books, ironically, they tend to make more money than the physicists because there are way more people like Justin who will buy those books than who will buy a copy of Physical Review Letters, says something about society really.