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MarquisX
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6/11/2011 9:31:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I can understand why some atheist question our beliefs, because they want to know more, but some of you seem to despise us. And there is no good reason as to why. Is it because you are a minority? Real religious people aren't anything like what you see on tv. It's tv. Christians don't hate gays or soldiers. And Muslims don't want to blow themselves up. You have been mislead.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
phantom
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6/11/2011 10:26:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 9:31:27 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I can understand why some atheist question our beliefs, because they want to know more, but some of you seem to despise us. And there is no good reason as to why. Is it because you are a minority? Real religious people aren't anything like what you see on tv. It's tv. Christians don't hate gays or soldiers. And Muslims don't want to blow themselves up. You have been mislead.

I'm not sure who you mean by we. Do you mean people who believe in God? I don't know what religion your are because your profile doesn't say.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/11/2011 10:57:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 9:31:27 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I can understand why some atheist question our beliefs, because they want to know more, but some of you seem to despise us. And there is no good reason as to why. Is it because you are a minority? Real religious people aren't anything like what you see on tv. It's tv. Christians don't hate gays or soldiers. And Muslims don't want to blow themselves up. You have been mislead.

Some Christians do hate gays because of their religious beliefs.
Some Muslims do want to blow themselves up because of their religious beliefs.
The problem is the ambiguous nature of the scripture religion is largely based on.
No matter how many Theists read the scripture, supposedly understand the true meaning and find nothing but peace, love and compassion within the text, the problem remains. You can facespsalm all you like.
If I can Google up a hundred overtly abhorrent lines, Zealot nuts with bigoted ultimatums can do the same and suck all the good-intentioned lambs down into disgrace with them.

Can we hope that those people can be educated? Can we hope that all of the Al Queda's and West Boro Baptist church's of the world can be phased out forever?
History suggests otherwise and I for one strongly fear not.

The solution is unclear, so as long as such organisations exist and preach the unquestionable truth of their understandings of 'Gods word', I oppose the scripture and any organisation which uses them utterly.

Having said that, I don't have the remotest ill feelings for Theists themselves. I understand the cultural importance of the scripture and the overwhelming and irrational power it has over them. I am fascinated by particular Theists, who are clearly far more intelligent than I am.
Take popculturepooka for example. He is one of the most brilliant Theological arguers I have ever seen and I have made no effort to hide that I think so highly of him. It boggles my mind; the existence of such people is what prevents me from being a strong Atheist. I have to give some doubt to my position, because honestly; it's not without flaw itself... We have questions which, despite the ever increasing scope of Scientific understanding, we may never, ever truly answer.

Anyway, any Atheist who hates Theists simply because they believe is FAR WORSE than a Theist who hates people who don't share their beliefs.
They should know better. Without religious dogma to lead you down that path, you simply have no excuse.
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CosmicAlfonzo
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6/11/2011 11:11:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are Christians that exhibit the qualities that you say that Christians do not have. I know too many personally to think otherwise.

Also, being a lower class guy, I can say that hate of all types, for any reason at all is rampant. Most of these haters are in fact religious. Racism, something you'd think would be gone by now is still everywhere.

Because of the social stigma attached with being a hateful wanker, most of these people are not open about it.. However, as soon as people get comfortable with your presence, all the bad pours out, seemingly non-stop.

There are a lot of people around me who are offensively ignorant.

I've actually noticed something. The more religious someone tries to pass themselves off as being, the greater the odds are that they are really a terrible and rotten person on the inside.

Good religious people don't go around making a show, and good religious people are nice. What they believe is invariably utter lunacy, but the good ones are completely harmless.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
izbo10
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6/11/2011 11:45:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
And here logic 101 class we have the prime example of the no true scottsman fallacy.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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6/11/2011 11:46:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
plus I respect truth to much to respect your blatant disregard for it.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
blackhawk1331
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6/11/2011 12:47:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 9:31:27 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I can understand why some atheist question our beliefs, because they want to know more, but some of you seem to despise us. And there is no good reason as to why. Is it because you are a minority? Real religious people aren't anything like what you see on tv. It's tv. Christians don't hate gays or soldiers. And Muslims don't want to blow themselves up. You have been mislead.

All they show on TV are the extremists. Who wants to watch a regular person going about their day when you can watch a suicide bomber, or listen to some guy predict the end of the world for the second or third time?
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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6/11/2011 7:09:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm what you would call a Christian just not in the traditional sense of the word. But i'm speaking really on religion as a whole or at least, the big three. I'm not an idiot, I know Muslim suicide bombers and hateful lunatics like the Westboro baptist church. When that minister threatned to burn the quran it made headlines, but around that same time another minister actually opened up his church to muslims to use as mosque. He did get some news coverage but everyone was on about us hateful Christians. And historically religion has made HUGE advancements on science, but people still believe "the dark ages" really happened
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/11/2011 7:30:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 7:09:13 PM, MarquisX wrote:
I'm what you would call a Christian just not in the traditional sense of the word. But i'm speaking really on religion as a whole or at least, the big three. I'm not an idiot, I know Muslim suicide bombers and hateful lunatics like the Westboro baptist church. When that minister threatned to burn the quran it made headlines, but around that same time another minister actually opened up his church to muslims to use as mosque. He did get some news coverage but everyone was on about us hateful Christians. And historically religion has made HUGE advancements on science, but people still believe "the dark ages" really happened

And Christians still believe that their translation of the bible is accurate.

Learn to read ancient Hebrew, then go read the real bible. I would think that any true believer of the bible would make that a life goal. I'm sure learning to read the text would only take a few years. What's a few years in the face of truth?
tkubok
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6/11/2011 7:47:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 9:31:27 AM, MarquisX wrote:
I can understand why some atheist question our beliefs, because they want to know more, but some of you seem to despise us. And there is no good reason as to why. Is it because you are a minority? Real religious people aren't anything like what you see on tv. It's tv. Christians don't hate gays or soldiers. And Muslims don't want to blow themselves up. You have been mislead.

I dont despise you. I dont despise my christian or muslim friends. I do despise some christians, but not because they are christian. I do despise the religion itself, as I do with most religions.

Your argument doesnt really apply to most atheists, either. Most Atheists dont despise religious people at all.

But i do object to you calling yourself a "real" religious person, because for better or for worse, there are real christians and Real muslims who do hate gays and think that Gays are going to hell. Its not your place to call them "Not-real" or "Fake" or anything.

Notice i didnt say "Real atheists", and instead said "Most atheists".
tkubok
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6/11/2011 7:52:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 7:09:13 PM, MarquisX wrote:
I'm what you would call a Christian just not in the traditional sense of the word. But i'm speaking really on religion as a whole or at least, the big three. I'm not an idiot, I know Muslim suicide bombers and hateful lunatics like the Westboro baptist church. When that minister threatned to burn the quran it made headlines, but around that same time another minister actually opened up his church to muslims to use as mosque. He did get some news coverage but everyone was on about us hateful Christians. And historically religion has made HUGE advancements on science, but people still believe "the dark ages" really happened

First of all, yes, the dark ages did exist.

Secondly, no, "religion" did not make the advancement, people did. Just because a scientist was christian, doesnt mean that all the discoveries the scientists make, suddenly are thanks to christianity. I agree that there are few accomplishments that religion has produced, mainly in art, but there arent that many major scientific developements that are thanks to religion. Infact, i cant really name anything outside the Islamic golden age.

Your arguments fail miserably.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/11/2011 10:34:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 7:52:14 PM, tkubok wrote:
Just because a scientist was christian, doesnt mean that all the discoveries the scientists make, suddenly are thanks to christianity.

This. Newton was a Christian, but just because we accept Gravity, doesn't give support to his other beliefs.
I'd even go further and say many powerful religious organisations were and are a major hindrance to scientific development. 150 years later we still have morons trying to teach YEC in schools.
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MarquisX
Posts: 925
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6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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6/11/2011 11:36:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

That would certainly be weird.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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6/11/2011 11:38:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

Galileo? Do you mean astronomy? The Church was entirely about Aristotle at that point, any discussion of a heliocentric solar system was taboo at that point.
MarquisX
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6/11/2011 11:40:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:38:01 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

Galileo? Do you mean astronomy? The Church was entirely about Aristotle at that point, any discussion of a heliocentric solar system was taboo at that point.

You're right. Mixed those two up. My bad
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
OMGJustinBieber
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6/11/2011 11:43:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:40:32 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:38:01 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

Galileo? Do you mean astronomy? The Church was entirely about Aristotle at that point, any discussion of a heliocentric solar system was taboo at that point.

You're right. Mixed those two up. My bad

how about my main contention?
MarquisX
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6/11/2011 11:45:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:43:20 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:40:32 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:38:01 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

Galileo? Do you mean astronomy? The Church was entirely about Aristotle at that point, any discussion of a heliocentric solar system was taboo at that point.

You're right. Mixed those two up. My bad

how about my main contention?

What about it?
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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6/11/2011 11:47:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:45:33 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:43:20 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:40:32 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:38:01 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

Galileo? Do you mean astronomy? The Church was entirely about Aristotle at that point, any discussion of a heliocentric solar system was taboo at that point.

You're right. Mixed those two up. My bad

how about my main contention?

What about it?

do you have a response for galileo?
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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6/12/2011 12:08:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/11/2011 11:47:49 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:45:33 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:43:20 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:40:32 PM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:38:01 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 6/11/2011 11:34:17 PM, MarquisX wrote:
No. The Dark Ages never happened. You have been mislead. Any Modern historian will agree but if you want we can debate it. Also the Roman Catholic Church never held back any scientist in that era and continues today to be a huge contributer to the study of astrology. Again if you want to debate this, I'd be more than happy to.

Galileo? Do you mean astronomy? The Church was entirely about Aristotle at that point, any discussion of a heliocentric solar system was taboo at that point.

You're right. Mixed those two up. My bad

how about my main contention?

What about it?

do you have a response for galileo?
The Church went apeshit. We all know that, but it wasnt even the whole church. Pope Urban VIII was on his side and opposed against the damnation of the theory and Dialogue Concerning The Two Chief World Systems was published with with authorization from the inquisition. Galileo does eventual get in trouble, but more for political reasons.
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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6/12/2011 1:01:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/12/2011 12:18:00 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Again if anyone is willing to debate me on this I'm all for it.

I'll debate you on it.
RESOLVED: "The Dark Ages happened"
| :P
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MarquisX
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6/12/2011 3:16:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/12/2011 1:01:06 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/12/2011 12:18:00 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Again if anyone is willing to debate me on this I'm all for it.

I'll debate you on it.
RESOLVED: "The Dark Ages happened"
| :P

Wow. Usually when you offer up a debate on religion people jump on it. What's with the cowardice...and if it seems like im trying to light a fire under your ego its because I am. I'll even take the burden of proof
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
tvellalott
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6/12/2011 3:44:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/12/2011 3:16:44 AM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/12/2011 1:01:06 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/12/2011 12:18:00 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Again if anyone is willing to debate me on this I'm all for it.

I'll debate you on it.
RESOLVED: "The Dark Ages happened"
| :P

Wow. Usually when you offer up a debate on religion people jump on it. What's with the cowardice...

Huh?

and if it seems like im trying to light a fire under your ego its because I am. I'll even take the burden of proof

Are you serious? There is no way you can argue that the Dark Ages didn't happen...
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MarquisX
Posts: 925
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6/12/2011 3:51:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/12/2011 3:44:29 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/12/2011 3:16:44 AM, MarquisX wrote:
At 6/12/2011 1:01:06 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/12/2011 12:18:00 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Again if anyone is willing to debate me on this I'm all for it.

I'll debate you on it.
RESOLVED: "The Dark Ages happened"
| :P

Wow. Usually when you offer up a debate on religion people jump on it. What's with the cowardice...

Huh?

and if it seems like im trying to light a fire under your ego its because I am. I'll even take the burden of proof

Are you serious? There is no way you can argue that the Dark Ages didn't happen...

Then what do you have to lose? It's an easy win right?
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/12/2011 5:34:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think I've received more hate-filled PMs from my fellow Christians than anyone else, actually I don't think i've ever received a hate-filled PM from any atheist here.

It's a debate site, and there will be those who will be inadequately prepared to defend themselves against those who are very adept at pulling apart the religion of someone who comes here. However, respect, or a lack of, on this site doesn't come from what you believe, but rather how you defend yourself. There are theists here who can defend themselves quite well and are also quite respected (PCP, Inquire, and even Geo in a different sort of light).

If you look at the real criticisms waged against members here, the respected criticisms are the ones with the greatest merit, and have nothing to do with the particular ideology. Charlesb might actually have a decent platform here if he were more engaging, and less rhetorical in his presentation.

We look for weakness in an argument, that's what we do here, and theists have a harder time in defending their faith than any other because of the nature of faith in relation to facts. However, i wouldn't take it personal; i mean it's not like some of the PM's i've received here.
tvellalott
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6/12/2011 8:11:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/12/2011 3:51:33 AM, MarquisX wrote:
Then what do you have to lose? It's an easy win right?

You know, I get the feeling I'm being hustled. :P
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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