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Why do people believe in "God" without proof?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/30/2011 8:12:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

Reply: How do you account for anything that you cannot measure by science?

The ability to reason. That's how you know something. The ability to measure something with an instrument doesn't really mean anything when compared to the ability to reason. Did humans have an instrument to measure radiation 1000 years ago? No. Did radiation still exist 1000 years ago. Yes. Thoughts can't be measured by an instrument, yet you know that they exist. If you shape your entire reality around what can be measured with a physical instrument, then you are leaving out everything that can't be measured in that specific way.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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7/30/2011 8:23:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

Lots of reasons: comfort, ignorance, lack of education, they believe they've encountered supernatural phenomena, etc. I'm not saying there is a god and neither am I saying there's no god, in fact I have conflicting opinions supporting and disliking religion in general.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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7/30/2011 8:26:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 8:12:43 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

Reply: How do you account for anything that you cannot measure by science?

I don't. If I don't have enough evidence or reason to draw a conclusion then I don't draw a conclusion.

The ability to reason. That's how you know something. The ability to measure something with an instrument doesn't really mean anything when compared to the ability to reason. Did humans have an instrument to measure radiation 1000 years ago? No. Did radiation still exist 1000 years ago. Yes. Thoughts can't be measured by an instrument, yet you know that they exist. If you shape your entire reality around what can be measured with a physical instrument, then you are leaving out everything that can't be measured in that specific way.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
christisking
Posts: 72
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7/30/2011 9:07:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 8:12:43 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

Reply: How do you account for anything that you cannot measure by science?

The ability to reason. That's how you know something. The ability to measure something with an instrument doesn't really mean anything when compared to the ability to reason. Did humans have an instrument to measure radiation 1000 years ago? No. Did radiation still exist 1000 years ago. Yes. Thoughts can't be measured by an instrument, yet you know that they exist. If you shape your entire reality around what can be measured with a physical instrument, then you are leaving out everything that can't be measured in that specific way.

Amen to Tiel!

I would also add, that God is the best hypothesis for the beginings of the universe. You can't scientifically test the past, so we have to go by the evidence before us which is where reason comes in (as Tiel said).
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/30/2011 9:52:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 9:07:20 PM, christisking wrote:
At 7/30/2011 8:12:43 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

Reply: How do you account for anything that you cannot measure by science?

The ability to reason. That's how you know something. The ability to measure something with an instrument doesn't really mean anything when compared to the ability to reason. Did humans have an instrument to measure radiation 1000 years ago? No. Did radiation still exist 1000 years ago. Yes. Thoughts can't be measured by an instrument, yet you know that they exist. If you shape your entire reality around what can be measured with a physical instrument, then you are leaving out everything that can't be measured in that specific way.

Amen to Tiel!

I would also add, that God is the best hypothesis for the beginings of the universe. You can't scientifically test the past, so we have to go by the evidence before us which is where reason comes in (as Tiel said).

Reply: Agreed.

Personal Opinion (currently): The specifics to what the creator is or came from may be disputed, but it is within the realm of reason that you find the existence of anything is the product (creation) of something (creator) that produced (created) it.

This cycle is the paradox of creation/creator/creation/creator/etc.

This eternal cycle is God.

There is never a point in which existence was not. For existence is. Since existence is, there could never have been a point that it is was not. For if that were true, then there would have been nothing to form or create that which exists. This is the divine paradox. This is the finite mind trying to understand the Infinite Creator. Though the infinite can never be understood by the finite mind, unless it accepts that infinitism is paradox itself.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Seeker4Truth
Posts: 13
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7/30/2011 10:22:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

I think Aquinas's argument for the exist of God still has merit, though it doesn't prove the existence of any particular 'god', it does agree with science that every effect, must have a cause.

Here is the argument from Aquinas' 'Summa Theologica':

In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible.

Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.
Seeker4Truth
Posts: 13
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7/30/2011 10:35:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have to add that I do not think it possible to 'prove' the existence of God to any who want to doubt it. But then again, if I were an Idealist (one who believes that nothing material /physical exists, but that only ideas in minds exist), no amount of science or reason would be able to convince me otherwise. Or Again, can you prove to me that human reason (scientific or otherwise) is able to discover 'truth'?

What I'm saying is that you hold your form of rationalism to be a self evident axiom - it's your starting point. But have you ever looked at it carefully and proven to yourself beyond doubt that it is possible for reason to discover truth?

If not, try reading some philosophy sometime, or even the history of science!
VocMusTcrMaloy
Posts: 189
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7/31/2011 12:58:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

I don't believe in God WITHOUT PROOF. In a murder trial, scientific evidence is not the only type of evidence admitted in court. Why must the existence of God be confined to scientific evidence only when felons are convicted of their crimes on the testimony of witnesses without any scientific evidence?
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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7/31/2011 1:01:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/31/2011 12:58:29 AM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

I don't believe in God WITHOUT PROOF. In a murder trial, scientific evidence is not the only type of evidence admitted in court. Why must the existence of God be confined to scientific evidence only when felons are convicted of their crimes on the testimony of witnesses without any scientific evidence?

If you're refering to scripture, heresay is inadmissable in court.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
VocMusTcrMaloy
Posts: 189
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7/31/2011 1:44:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/31/2011 1:01:43 AM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 7/31/2011 12:58:29 AM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

I don't believe in God WITHOUT PROOF. In a murder trial, scientific evidence is not the only type of evidence admitted in court. Why must the existence of God be confined to scientific evidence only when felons are convicted of their crimes on the testimony of witnesses without any scientific evidence?

If you're refering to scripture, heresay is inadmissable in court.

No, when it comes to my own personal belief, I'm not refering to the Bible. I agree that the Bible alone is not enough evidence for the existence of God. Elijah issued a challenge on Mount Carmel, "Let the God who answers by fire be God." In other words the Bible is validated by supernatural phenomena. I personally prayed for a bass guitar player who stopped playing because he was losing his hearing. He reported that the very next day, he was listening to one of his CDs in his car and began hearing cymbals and other high frequencies he previously could not hear. He returned to playing bass after that. I also have experienced the supernatural Presence of God on numerous occasions. I know someone who had (I think it was) cerebral palsy and had one leg six inches shorter than the other. This lady and others who were there told me how they witnessed her leg grow six inches in a church service…and these were not "nutty" people either; they were intelligent people who would have no reason to lie. When they told me, it was in a matter-of-fact manner; not with a lot of drama. Also, there are books of physician-verified miracles from the Katherine Khulman ministries. She was a weird woman, but there are undeniable miracles from her ministry. I don't expect you to believe anything I'm saying, but the question is "why do you believe in God?"; not, "what is your proof of God?"
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/1/2011 4:58:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/30/2011 7:56:58 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Why do people believe in god? What is "god" anyway? Different religions define him/her/it in different ways. There has never been any scientific proof that "god" exists as defined by most mainstream religions. Someone give me some proof that your version of "god" exists. And don't say that it is a force/dark matter/dark energy etc. Those have been scientifically proven and are not how most religions define "god."

Because Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Living God, CHOSE to reveal Himself to me and by His gift of Faith I now have a real relationship with Him AND the Father..

I must now endeavor to spend this Grace/Mercy on those, such as yourself, who have not received revelation.
The Cross.. the Cross.