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Salvation and a Theory

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
inferno
Posts: 10,660
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8/2/2011 1:55:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

Cerbal. You are such an intelligent being. I am ashamed that you would sink so low as to resolve to incessant rhetoric. See Atheists are irrelevent to religion
thread. The answer you are desperately seeking, lies there.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/2/2011 1:57:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 1:55:46 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

Cerbal. You are such an intelligent being. I am ashamed that you would sink so low as to resolve to incessant rhetoric. See Atheists are irrelevent to religion
thread. The answer you are desperately seeking, lies there.

Cross-thread promotion. Very admirable.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/2/2011 1:57:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 1:55:46 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

Cerbal. You are such an intelligent being. I am ashamed that you would sink so low as to resolve to incessant rhetoric. See Atheists are irrelevent to religion
thread. The answer you are desperately seeking, lies there.

Hmmm...
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
cabio
Posts: 36
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8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/2/2011 3:08:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

The story of Abraham.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
cabio
Posts: 36
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8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."
inferno
Posts: 10,660
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8/2/2011 3:30:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Cerebal. You must understand that God is not part of the natural order.
The laws of science does not apply to Him. He is the originator fo nature, which means He controls all things in the universe big and small. This blind faith as you put it is just talking points based on secular ideology. Yes, those who have observed and experienced supernatural events have proof. It is observation based and is through the 5 senses. Delusion does not apply to the logic of nature.
If I see a tree, then it is a tree. If I see a dog, then it is a dog. I am not just seeing an illusion, these are actual objects in physical form. I have never seen God Himself, but I have seen actual spirits. This was in a coherent, sane, non intoxicated state of mind. If I thought I was crazy, then I guess what Im seeing here at DDO is not real either, right ? Maybe this page is a delusion.
Maybe Cosmic is but a delusion. Or maybe what Im saying here is the truth.
You tell me.
inferno
Posts: 10,660
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8/2/2011 3:35:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

Cabio. These miracles you speak of happen every day. They are not just limited to the Bible. They may not be as extreme in some cases. Such as the parting of the sea, or the multiplying of fish and bread. But they do happen daily.
Why dont these type of miracles happen today ? I dont know exactly. But I was told that we are living in a different era or dimension of humanity. God has already walked the Earth through his son Jesus and the devil has gained access to things that were out of his reach during those days. So the climate is much darker now
and there are forces of evil that interact with Man. But anyway, it is what it is.
This is interesting.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/2/2011 6:43:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 3:30:58 PM, inferno wrote:
Cerebal. You must understand that God is not part of the natural order.
The laws of science does not apply to Him. He is the originator fo nature, which means He controls all things in the universe big and small. This blind faith as you put it is just talking points based on secular ideology. Yes, those who have observed and experienced supernatural events have proof. It is observation based and is through the 5 senses. Delusion does not apply to the logic of nature.
If I see a tree, then it is a tree. If I see a dog, then it is a dog. I am not just seeing an illusion, these are actual objects in physical form. I have never seen God Himself, but I have seen actual spirits. This was in a coherent, sane, non intoxicated state of mind. If I thought I was crazy, then I guess what Im seeing here at DDO is not real either, right ? Maybe this page is a delusion.
Maybe Cosmic is but a delusion. Or maybe what Im saying here is the truth.
You tell me.

This is utterly irrelevant to this thread.

Do you believe in Salvation by Faith. Yes/No.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
cabio
Posts: 36
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8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles. Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/3/2011 3:43:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
No, I don't think faith is an immunity card for anything. Salvation is a component of repenting; if you are sincerely "sorry" (i don't like that word in this context) for your past deeds, so that if given the scenario again you would not repeat it, and you acknowledge your character flaws that allowed it - that is the route to salvation.

For me salvation = redemption.

I don't necessarily believe in the whole - 'you did something wrong, or don't believe something properly so you're going to hell' thing, but as we know - I'm a terrible Christian.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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8/3/2011 5:31:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Hebrews 11:1
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 5:34:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:31:31 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Hebrews 11:1

Says no such thing at all!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 5:35:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

Yes
1: Jharry.

No
1: Innomen.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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8/3/2011 5:46:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:34:11 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:31 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Hebrews 11:1

Says no such thing at all!

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 5:48:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:46:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:34:11 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:31 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Hebrews 11:1

Says no such thing at all!

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Oh 11:1! Pardon me I looked up the wrong passage.

What evidence do you have of the things not seen?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
cabio
Posts: 36
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8/3/2011 6:18:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Not for them it wasn't. They saw the evidence. Then they believed.

Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.

As I said, the biblical definition of faith is an ACTIVE trust based on evidence. Therefore, it entails the idea that a true faith involves actions. They would argue that if one has true faith, his actions demonstrate that.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 6:26:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 6:18:21 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Not for them it wasn't. They saw the evidence. Then they believed.

Hence why I said what I said.


Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.

As I said, the biblical definition of faith is an ACTIVE trust based on evidence. Therefore, it entails the idea that a true faith involves actions. They would argue that if one has true faith, his actions demonstrate that.

Your conception of faith is inconsistent and irrelevant.

How do you stand on the original post?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
cabio
Posts: 36
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8/3/2011 6:58:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 6:26:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:18:21 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Not for them it wasn't. They saw the evidence. Then they believed.

Hence why I said what I said.
We were talking about the definition of faith. I was showing how Jesus/the Bible defined faith. It does not define it as being blind. It does not ask a Christian to believe without evidence. And it entails action.


Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.

As I said, the biblical definition of faith is an ACTIVE trust based on evidence. Therefore, it entails the idea that a true faith involves actions. They would argue that if one has true faith, his actions demonstrate that.

Your conception of faith is inconsistent and irrelevant.
Where is the inconsistency and why is it irrelevant? I would think that when asking a question, everyone involved should understand the definition of the terms being asked.

How do you stand on the original post?
Given the definition of Christian faith being an active trust based on evidence, then a Christian does believe on faith alone, yes.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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8/3/2011 7:02:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:48:53 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:46:26 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:34:11 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:31 AM, GodSands wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Hebrews 11:1

Says no such thing at all!

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Oh 11:1! Pardon me I looked up the wrong passage.

What evidence do you have of the things not seen?

No problem, but I'll get back to you on that question.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 7:36:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 6:58:11 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:26:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:18:21 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Not for them it wasn't. They saw the evidence. Then they believed.

Hence why I said what I said.
We were talking about the definition of faith. I was showing how Jesus/the Bible defined faith. It does not define it as being blind. It does not ask a Christian to believe without evidence. And it entails action.


Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.

As I said, the biblical definition of faith is an ACTIVE trust based on evidence. Therefore, it entails the idea that a true faith involves actions. They would argue that if one has true faith, his actions demonstrate that.

Your conception of faith is inconsistent and irrelevant.
Where is the inconsistency and why is it irrelevant? I would think that when asking a question, everyone involved should understand the definition of the terms being asked.


It is inconsistent because you are using two defintions of faith, faith from evidence and blind faith, and conflating them together under the definition of faith from evidence.

Witnessing a miracle of Jesus would justify faith through evidence, reading of such a miracle 2000 years later via a work of dubious legitimacy counts as blind faith. Where are the miracles for the modern age.

And it does not directly address my question.

How do you stand on the original post?
Given the definition of Christian faith being an active trust based on evidence, then a Christian does believe on faith alone, yes.

Which was not the question.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
cabio
Posts: 36
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8/3/2011 7:48:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 7:36:09 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:58:11 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:26:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:18:21 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Not for them it wasn't. They saw the evidence. Then they believed.

Hence why I said what I said.
We were talking about the definition of faith. I was showing how Jesus/the Bible defined faith. It does not define it as being blind. It does not ask a Christian to believe without evidence. And it entails action.


Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.

As I said, the biblical definition of faith is an ACTIVE trust based on evidence. Therefore, it entails the idea that a true faith involves actions. They would argue that if one has true faith, his actions demonstrate that.

Your conception of faith is inconsistent and irrelevant.
Where is the inconsistency and why is it irrelevant? I would think that when asking a question, everyone involved should understand the definition of the terms being asked.


It is inconsistent because you are using two defintions of faith, faith from evidence and blind faith, and conflating them together under the definition of faith from evidence.
I have not used the definition of blind faith at all. The only thing I have said concerning that is that is not the definition of faith given in the Christian Bible.

Witnessing a miracle of Jesus would justify faith through evidence, reading of such a miracle 2000 years later via a work of dubious legitimacy counts as blind faith. Where are the miracles for the modern age.
I have said nothing about the miracles for today. My only reference to the biblical miracles was in showing how Jesus/the Bible defines faith. It never asked the people of the day to have a blind faith. If you want to talk about evidence for today, that is a different subject. You started off simply asking if a Christian believes based on faith alone. Given the proper definition of faith, then a Christian does believe on faith alone.

And it does not directly address my question.
I would think that defining the terms of the question is directly addressing it.

How do you stand on the original post?
Given the definition of Christian faith being an active trust based on evidence, then a Christian does believe on faith alone, yes.

Which was not the question.
A Christian does believe in salvation solely through faith alone, given that faith is defined as an active trust based on evidence.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 7:53:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 7:48:17 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 7:36:09 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:58:11 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:26:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/3/2011 6:18:21 AM, cabio wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:31:34 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 10:43:23 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 6:41:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:29:36 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 3:06:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/2/2011 2:59:39 PM, cabio wrote:
At 8/2/2011 1:53:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
A question for the Christians,

Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

I think you would need to define faith first. Are you talking about blind faith or the biblical definition of faith, which is an active trust based on evidence?

Where in the bible is that definition?

Basically every place that it asks one to believe or talks about faith. Jesus everywhere does miracles (gives evidence) so that "you may believe." The miracles in the Old Testament happened and the onlookers "believed."

But that is evidence for them, not evidence for us. Where are our miracles?

Yes, and that displays how Jesus defined faith. A trust built on his evidence of his miracles.

That is blind faith.

Not for them it wasn't. They saw the evidence. Then they believed.

Hence why I said what I said.
We were talking about the definition of faith. I was showing how Jesus/the Bible defined faith. It does not define it as being blind. It does not ask a Christian to believe without evidence. And it entails action.


Asking for miracles today is irrelevant to the topic at hand, at least for now. A Christian, I would say, does hold onto their beliefs from faith alone, if faith is defined as the Bible defines it as being an active trust based on evidence. And I'm not sure that is unreasonable nor irrational.

But do you believe in salvation through faith alone, as opposed to salvation say through faith and works.

As I said, the biblical definition of faith is an ACTIVE trust based on evidence. Therefore, it entails the idea that a true faith involves actions. They would argue that if one has true faith, his actions demonstrate that.

Your conception of faith is inconsistent and irrelevant.
Where is the inconsistency and why is it irrelevant? I would think that when asking a question, everyone involved should understand the definition of the terms being asked.


It is inconsistent because you are using two defintions of faith, faith from evidence and blind faith, and conflating them together under the definition of faith from evidence.
I have not used the definition of blind faith at all. The only thing I have said concerning that is that is not the definition of faith given in the Christian Bible.

In effect you have, the problem is you are not really replying to me, just repeating whatever it is you want to say!


Witnessing a miracle of Jesus would justify faith through evidence, reading of such a miracle 2000 years later via a work of dubious legitimacy counts as blind faith. Where are the miracles for the modern age.
I have said nothing about the miracles for today.

Exactly.

My only reference to the biblical miracles was in showing how Jesus/the Bible defines faith. It never asked the people of the day to have a blind faith. If you want to talk about evidence for today, that is a different subject.

I've entertained your tangent, if you are not willing to pursue it then don't raise the subject.

You started off simply asking if a Christian believes based on faith alone.

No I didn't.

Given the proper definition of faith, then a Christian does believe on faith alone.

Again, still not the question I asked.


And it does not directly address my question.
I would think that defining the terms of the question is directly addressing it.

Already addressed, not going to carry on repeating myself.


How do you stand on the original post?
Given the definition of Christian faith being an active trust based on evidence, then a Christian does believe on faith alone, yes.

Which was not the question.
A Christian does believe in salvation solely through faith alone, given that faith is defined as an active trust based on evidence.

Faith is not defined as such, you have failed to make that case. But that is still a sufficient response to place you in the yes camp.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/3/2011 7:54:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Do you believe in salvation SOLELY through faith and faith alone.

Yes/no.

Yes
1: Jharry.
2: Cabio.

No
1: Innomen.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.