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Why do you follow a genocidal God?

GreatestIam
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8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.

I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.

Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.
YouAreWrong
Posts: 28
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8/3/2011 12:44:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.

I don't think that's nearly enough said, actually.

GreatestIAm could have written a more eloquent or at least detailed argument, but his point remains valid.

Why do Christians defend such a merciless and unforgiving God? It's a practice in contradiction and hypocrising. A God that allegedly allows us free will will strike us blind or kill our children or our goats (and I love my goats very much). In the story of exodus he hardens the Pharoh's heart to the Jews, interfering with free will. He kills the Egyptian soldiers rather than stall them in their pursuit of the fleeing Soon-to-be Israelites.He murders hundreds of innocent children rather than the man responsible for the Jews slavery(well, one could argue it was God's fault for their enslavement). The claims of God are rife with contradiction. Since Christians are fond of quoting their own holy book in a vain effort to give an edge to their argument, I thought I'd give it a try.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Just and merciful, eh? It's just plain silly, no, stupid, that such a vast majority of people ignore the bad stuff in their belief system and proclaim only the good. If you've read the entire bible, as I have, from cover to cover and still believe God is merciless, forgiving and not a liar, then I hope you're enjoying your padded cell.
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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8/3/2011 1:03:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 12:44:08 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.

I don't think that's nearly enough said, actually.

GreatestIAm could have written a more eloquent or at least detailed argument, but his point remains valid.

Why do Christians defend such a merciless and unforgiving God? It's a practice in contradiction and hypocrising. A God that allegedly allows us free will will strike us blind or kill our children or our goats (and I love my goats very much). In the story of exodus he hardens the Pharoh's heart to the Jews, interfering with free will. He kills the Egyptian soldiers rather than stall them in their pursuit of the fleeing Soon-to-be Israelites.He murders hundreds of innocent children rather than the man responsible for the Jews slavery(well, one could argue it was God's fault for their enslavement). The claims of God are rife with contradiction. Since Christians are fond of quoting their own holy book in a vain effort to give an edge to their argument, I thought I'd give it a try.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Just and merciful, eh? It's just plain silly, no, stupid, that such a vast majority of people ignore the bad stuff in their belief system and proclaim only the good. If you've read the entire bible, as I have, from cover to cover and still believe God is merciless, forgiving and not a liar, then I hope you're enjoying your padded cell.

God is merciful and forgiving. He is not the person you have potrayed Him to be.
Youre just another foolish secular minded idiot. Like the rest of the world, I do not
take anything that you say seriously. That would be an absolute waste of precious time.
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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8/3/2011 1:19:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thanks for the kudos and recognizing the issue.

Not having English as my mother tongue is my excuse for any lack the eloquence.
It is said that it is harder to be understood when you know more then one language. I know three.

In religious discussions, as shown from the first comment, eloquent or not, I will always draw that type of comment from the brain dead do not question God sheeple.

I recognize that a proof or ghost writer would improve on what I write but no volunteer has yet offered that service.

Regards
DL
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/3/2011 1:21:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't have a choice.

You can't "choose" to follow God, everyone does, whether they acknowledge it or not.

If God wasn't genocidal, Earth would get ridiculously crowded. We'd probably be able to build a human ladder to the moon! Things would be insanely different if God wasn't genocidal. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Only humans worry about these silly things.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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8/3/2011 1:25:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:21:41 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't have a choice.

You can't "choose" to follow God, everyone does, whether they acknowledge it or not.

If God wasn't genocidal, Earth would get ridiculously crowded. We'd probably be able to build a human ladder to the moon! Things would be insanely different if God wasn't genocidal. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Only humans worry about these silly things.

Yep. Victims of genocide should not worry about such a silly form of justice.
All secular governments should adopt that policy.

Regards
DL
YouAreWrong
Posts: 28
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8/3/2011 1:25:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:03:08 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 12:44:08 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.

I don't think that's nearly enough said, actually.

GreatestIAm could have written a more eloquent or at least detailed argument, but his point remains valid.

Why do Christians defend such a merciless and unforgiving God? It's a practice in contradiction and hypocrising. A God that allegedly allows us free will will strike us blind or kill our children or our goats (and I love my goats very much). In the story of exodus he hardens the Pharoh's heart to the Jews, interfering with free will. He kills the Egyptian soldiers rather than stall them in their pursuit of the fleeing Soon-to-be Israelites.He murders hundreds of innocent children rather than the man responsible for the Jews slavery(well, one could argue it was God's fault for their enslavement). The claims of God are rife with contradiction. Since Christians are fond of quoting their own holy book in a vain effort to give an edge to their argument, I thought I'd give it a try.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Just and merciful, eh? It's just plain silly, no, stupid, that such a vast majority of people ignore the bad stuff in their belief system and proclaim only the good. If you've read the entire bible, as I have, from cover to cover and still believe God is merciless, forgiving and not a liar, then I hope you're enjoying your padded cell.

God is merciful and forgiving. He is not the person you have potrayed Him to be.
Youre just another foolish secular minded idiot. Like the rest of the world, I do not
take anything that you say seriously. That would be an absolute waste of precious time.

That's very cute of you.
I'm stupid because you don't like what I say. Very convincing argument. Now, I'd like you to try something other than behaving like an 8 year old.

You use the word secular like it's an insult, when it's just a view of things. A well-founded, scientific, proof-driven view. If God was so merciful and forgiving, why did he do those things? Why did he kill thousands of people in Sodom and Gommorah just for doing what they felt like with their own bodies? Wasn't Earth supposed to be a test for those that wanted entrance to Heaven? If so, it's a direct contradiction to kill someone before their dying day when all is said and done. Before anyone has had the chance for redemption. Like the flood in the story of Noah; washing away MILLIONS before their chance at repentance. He's quick to kill but slow to help or forgive. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound ver merciless to me. And did you completely ignore the scripture above? It certainly looks like it.
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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8/3/2011 1:34:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:25:46 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:03:08 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 12:44:08 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.

I don't think that's nearly enough said, actually.

GreatestIAm could have written a more eloquent or at least detailed argument, but his point remains valid.

Why do Christians defend such a merciless and unforgiving God? It's a practice in contradiction and hypocrising. A God that allegedly allows us free will will strike us blind or kill our children or our goats (and I love my goats very much). In the story of exodus he hardens the Pharoh's heart to the Jews, interfering with free will. He kills the Egyptian soldiers rather than stall them in their pursuit of the fleeing Soon-to-be Israelites.He murders hundreds of innocent children rather than the man responsible for the Jews slavery(well, one could argue it was God's fault for their enslavement). The claims of God are rife with contradiction. Since Christians are fond of quoting their own holy book in a vain effort to give an edge to their argument, I thought I'd give it a try.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Just and merciful, eh? It's just plain silly, no, stupid, that such a vast majority of people ignore the bad stuff in their belief system and proclaim only the good. If you've read the entire bible, as I have, from cover to cover and still believe God is merciless, forgiving and not a liar, then I hope you're enjoying your padded cell.

God is merciful and forgiving. He is not the person you have potrayed Him to be.
Youre just another foolish secular minded idiot. Like the rest of the world, I do not
take anything that you say seriously. That would be an absolute waste of precious time.

That's very cute of you.
I'm stupid because you don't like what I say. Very convincing argument. Now, I'd like you to try something other than behaving like an 8 year old.

You use the word secular like it's an insult, when it's just a view of things. A well-founded, scientific, proof-driven view. If God was so merciful and forgiving, why did he do those things? Why did he kill thousands of people in Sodom and Gommorah just for doing what they felt like with their own bodies? Wasn't Earth supposed to be a test for those that wanted entrance to Heaven? If so, it's a direct contradiction to kill someone before their dying day when all is said and done. Before anyone has had the chance for redemption. Like the flood in the story of Noah; washing away MILLIONS before their chance at repentance. He's quick to kill but slow to help or forgive. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound ver merciless to me. And did you completely ignore the scripture above? It certainly looks like it.

An 8 year old ? Oh, is that what you were doing. I thought you were 3.
Anyway, God is a merciful and forgiving God. He is a loving God, He is a just God.
Those people that died by wrath were an abomination. They commited sins
that at that time we punishable by death. Man still have laws like this that exist today. So your argument fails there, too. The people that we killed in the flood rejected God's call to repentance. They were rebellious and stuck in their
ways. There was no turning back for any of them. The crucifixion changed all of these things, so now you are under God's mercy. That is why YOU are still here.
Did you get that ? Good.
CosmicAlfonzo
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8/3/2011 1:37:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:25:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:21:41 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't have a choice.

You can't "choose" to follow God, everyone does, whether they acknowledge it or not.

If God wasn't genocidal, Earth would get ridiculously crowded. We'd probably be able to build a human ladder to the moon! Things would be insanely different if God wasn't genocidal. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Only humans worry about these silly things.

Yep. Victims of genocide should not worry about such a silly form of justice.
All secular governments should adopt that policy.

Regards
DL

You are going to die. You can stage as man protests as you want, and get a billion signatures on a petition. You can rally up an army consisting of the entirety of the human race, but God will not give into your demands.

You're going to die, brah. Might as well accept the fact. That, and accept the fact that you are God's little puppet. You are submitting to God whether you like it or think you are or not.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
YouAreWrong
Posts: 28
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8/3/2011 2:19:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:34:50 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:25:46 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:03:08 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 12:44:08 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.

I don't think that's nearly enough said, actually.

GreatestIAm could have written a more eloquent or at least detailed argument, but his point remains valid.

Why do Christians defend such a merciless and unforgiving God? It's a practice in contradiction and hypocrising. A God that allegedly allows us free will will strike us blind or kill our children or our goats (and I love my goats very much). In the story of exodus he hardens the Pharoh's heart to the Jews, interfering with free will. He kills the Egyptian soldiers rather than stall them in their pursuit of the fleeing Soon-to-be Israelites.He murders hundreds of innocent children rather than the man responsible for the Jews slavery(well, one could argue it was God's fault for their enslavement). The claims of God are rife with contradiction. Since Christians are fond of quoting their own holy book in a vain effort to give an edge to their argument, I thought I'd give it a try.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Just and merciful, eh? It's just plain silly, no, stupid, that such a vast majority of people ignore the bad stuff in their belief system and proclaim only the good. If you've read the entire bible, as I have, from cover to cover and still believe God is merciless, forgiving and not a liar, then I hope you're enjoying your padded cell.

God is merciful and forgiving. He is not the person you have potrayed Him to be.
Youre just another foolish secular minded idiot. Like the rest of the world, I do not
take anything that you say seriously. That would be an absolute waste of precious time.

That's very cute of you.
I'm stupid because you don't like what I say. Very convincing argument. Now, I'd like you to try something other than behaving like an 8 year old.

You use the word secular like it's an insult, when it's just a view of things. A well-founded, scientific, proof-driven view. If God was so merciful and forgiving, why did he do those things? Why did he kill thousands of people in Sodom and Gommorah just for doing what they felt like with their own bodies? Wasn't Earth supposed to be a test for those that wanted entrance to Heaven? If so, it's a direct contradiction to kill someone before their dying day when all is said and done. Before anyone has had the chance for redemption. Like the flood in the story of Noah; washing away MILLIONS before their chance at repentance. He's quick to kill but slow to help or forgive. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound ver merciless to me. And did you completely ignore the scripture above? It certainly looks like it.

An 8 year old ? Oh, is that what you were doing. I thought you were 3.
Anyway, God is a merciful and forgiving God. He is a loving God, He is a just God.
Those people that died by wrath were an abomination. They commited sins
that at that time we punishable by death. Man still have laws like this that exist today. So your argument fails there, too. The people that we killed in the flood rejected God's call to repentance. They were rebellious and stuck in their
ways. There was no turning back for any of them. The crucifixion changed all of these things, so now you are under God's mercy. That is why YOU are still here.
Did you get that ? Good.

A just God? He killed hundreds of innocent newborns to show how big and bad he was.
You're ignoring the point. God gave mankind free will to earn their way to Heaven. God interfered in a devastatingly cruel way. Thereby ignoring his own rules. To wit, any other proclamtions and promises he choose to ignore.
And it's ridiculous to bring up the laws of man in a debate about the actions of God. We're talking about completely seperate entities here. And how can you say there was no turning back for any of them? Were you there? You had a chat with each of them? You knew they wouldn't decide to eventually follow every principle of God?

Opinion is called such because it isn't fact. And facts are what matter in a debate.
inferno
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8/3/2011 2:34:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 2:19:07 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:34:50 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:25:46 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:03:08 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 12:44:08 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:44:30 AM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 9:29:48 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Why do you follow a genocidal God?

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.


I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.



Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

What attracts you to a genocidal God?
Is it just that might makes right?

We are to emulate God.
Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

Regards
DL

GreatestIAm. I think you are just dumb. Enough said.

I don't think that's nearly enough said, actually.

GreatestIAm could have written a more eloquent or at least detailed argument, but his point remains valid.

Why do Christians defend such a merciless and unforgiving God? It's a practice in contradiction and hypocrising. A God that allegedly allows us free will will strike us blind or kill our children or our goats (and I love my goats very much). In the story of exodus he hardens the Pharoh's heart to the Jews, interfering with free will. He kills the Egyptian soldiers rather than stall them in their pursuit of the fleeing Soon-to-be Israelites.He murders hundreds of innocent children rather than the man responsible for the Jews slavery(well, one could argue it was God's fault for their enslavement). The claims of God are rife with contradiction. Since Christians are fond of quoting their own holy book in a vain effort to give an edge to their argument, I thought I'd give it a try.

Deuteronomy 7:1-6
1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles[b] and burn their idols in the fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

Just and merciful, eh? It's just plain silly, no, stupid, that such a vast majority of people ignore the bad stuff in their belief system and proclaim only the good. If you've read the entire bible, as I have, from cover to cover and still believe God is merciless, forgiving and not a liar, then I hope you're enjoying your padded cell.

God is merciful and forgiving. He is not the person you have potrayed Him to be.
Youre just another foolish secular minded idiot. Like the rest of the world, I do not
take anything that you say seriously. That would be an absolute waste of precious time.

That's very cute of you.
I'm stupid because you don't like what I say. Very convincing argument. Now, I'd like you to try something other than behaving like an 8 year old.

You use the word secular like it's an insult, when it's just a view of things. A well-founded, scientific, proof-driven view. If God was so merciful and forgiving, why did he do those things? Why did he kill thousands of people in Sodom and Gommorah just for doing what they felt like with their own bodies? Wasn't Earth supposed to be a test for those that wanted entrance to Heaven? If so, it's a direct contradiction to kill someone before their dying day when all is said and done. Before anyone has had the chance for redemption. Like the flood in the story of Noah; washing away MILLIONS before their chance at repentance. He's quick to kill but slow to help or forgive. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound ver merciless to me. And did you completely ignore the scripture above? It certainly looks like it.

An 8 year old ? Oh, is that what you were doing. I thought you were 3.
Anyway, God is a merciful and forgiving God. He is a loving God, He is a just God.
Those people that died by wrath were an abomination. They commited sins
that at that time we punishable by death. Man still have laws like this that exist today. So your argument fails there, too. The people that we killed in the flood rejected God's call to repentance. They were rebellious and stuck in their
ways. There was no turning back for any of them. The crucifixion changed all of these things, so now you are under God's mercy. That is why YOU are still here.
Did you get that ? Good.

A just God? He killed hundreds of innocent newborns to show how big and bad he was.
You're ignoring the point. God gave mankind free will to earn their way to Heaven. God interfered in a devastatingly cruel way. Thereby ignoring his own rules. To wit, any other proclamtions and promises he choose to ignore.
And it's ridiculous to bring up the laws of man in a debate about the actions of God. We're talking about completely seperate entities here. And how can you say there was no turning back for any of them? Were you there? You had a chat with each of them? You knew they wouldn't decide to eventually follow every principle of God?

Opinion is called such because it isn't fact. And facts are what matter in a debate.

You Are Wrong. I love that name. Where did you get it ? Anyway, God is a just God. I cannot explain to you why babies die. But I can tell you that I was told that they are embraced in Heaven. So...........Gods Laws and Mans laws are different.
You have to understand though, these laws stem from what God requires of us.
Thou Shall Not Kill, Thou Shall Not commit Adultery and so on. Our earthly laws also prevent us from doing those things. We have a moral obligation..
inferno
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8/3/2011 2:38:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are some things that were left out of the Bible. The details in some cases were not included. So we do not know why to everything under the sun.
I could care less myself, these things are not my concern. You sound more agnostic than anything else. I think you are confused more so than you would like to admit. But God loves you and if He did not, then He would not be who He says He is. But guess what my friend, He is. Like it or not.
YouAreWrong
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8/3/2011 2:56:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 2:38:09 PM, inferno wrote:
There are some things that were left out of the Bible. The details in some cases were not included. So we do not know why to everything under the sun.
I could care less myself, these things are not my concern. You sound more agnostic than anything else. I think you are confused more so than you would like to admit. But God loves you and if He did not, then He would not be who He says He is. But guess what my friend, He is. Like it or not.

I am Agnostic, as I explained in our other debate. And I would love it if there were a God. Certainly not this one. But some benevolent force concerned with our well being. Sadly, I've seen no evidence. Not even anything to arouse suspicion that there might exist such a thing.
In the post above this one you said, "You have to understand though, these laws stem from what God requires of us.
Thou Shall Not Kill, Thou Shall Not commit Adultery and so on."
Actually, these laws stem from what we require of the rest of society in order to live freely in semi-peacable cohabitation. Under the theory of social contract, society forfeits some freedoms for protection. These laws are the prohibitions of those select freedoms. They don't stem from what God requires of us, they stem from what we require of a democratic government. You don't need religion to have morals, you just need a conscience.
inferno
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8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 2:56:54 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 2:38:09 PM, inferno wrote:
There are some things that were left out of the Bible. The details in some cases were not included. So we do not know why to everything under the sun.
I could care less myself, these things are not my concern. You sound more agnostic than anything else. I think you are confused more so than you would like to admit. But God loves you and if He did not, then He would not be who He says He is. But guess what my friend, He is. Like it or not.

I am Agnostic, as I explained in our other debate. And I would love it if there were a God. Certainly not this one. But some benevolent force concerned with our well being. Sadly, I've seen no evidence. Not even anything to arouse suspicion that there might exist such a thing.
In the post above this one you said, "You have to understand though, these laws stem from what God requires of us.
Thou Shall Not Kill, Thou Shall Not commit Adultery and so on."
Actually, these laws stem from what we require of the rest of society in order to live freely in semi-peacable cohabitation. Under the theory of social contract, society forfeits some freedoms for protection. These laws are the prohibitions of those select freedoms. They don't stem from what God requires of us, they stem from what we require of a democratic government. You don't need religion to have morals, you just need a conscience.

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other. They may differ slightly, but they are more alike than anything else. You can have a democratic society and still have chaos.
History has proven this to be so. Just look at America today. We break the laws and we are punished, but we are still the most industrialized nation in the
Western world, yet our statistics makes us the worst of them all. There are more
civilized countries with less educational systems and democracy, that are not as developed. Yet they maintain a certain way about themselves which is not practiced here. Moral obligation is a democracy. This is why we fight wars.
This is why we feed the poor. This is why we value human life when it is necesary.
So you cannot have one without the other. We are sinners by nature, so we must have a compass. A moral one.
GreatestIam
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8/3/2011 3:18:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 1:37:08 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:25:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:21:41 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't have a choice.

You can't "choose" to follow God, everyone does, whether they acknowledge it or not.

If God wasn't genocidal, Earth would get ridiculously crowded. We'd probably be able to build a human ladder to the moon! Things would be insanely different if God wasn't genocidal. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Only humans worry about these silly things.

Yep. Victims of genocide should not worry about such a silly form of justice.
All secular governments should adopt that policy.

Regards
DL

You are going to die. You can stage as man protests as you want, and get a billion signatures on a petition. You can rally up an army consisting of the entirety of the human race, but God will not give into your demands.

You're going to die, brah. Might as well accept the fact. That, and accept the fact that you are God's little puppet. You are submitting to God whether you like it or think you are or not.

Keep your slave mentality all you want. That does not mean that you have to go along with the low morals that your master shows.

Regards
DL
YouAreWrong
Posts: 28
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8/3/2011 3:19:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 2:56:54 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 2:38:09 PM, inferno wrote:
There are some things that were left out of the Bible. The details in some cases were not included. So we do not know why to everything under the sun.
I could care less myself, these things are not my concern. You sound more agnostic than anything else. I think you are confused more so than you would like to admit. But God loves you and if He did not, then He would not be who He says He is. But guess what my friend, He is. Like it or not.

I am Agnostic, as I explained in our other debate. And I would love it if there were a God. Certainly not this one. But some benevolent force concerned with our well being. Sadly, I've seen no evidence. Not even anything to arouse suspicion that there might exist such a thing.
In the post above this one you said, "You have to understand though, these laws stem from what God requires of us.
Thou Shall Not Kill, Thou Shall Not commit Adultery and so on."
Actually, these laws stem from what we require of the rest of society in order to live freely in semi-peacable cohabitation. Under the theory of social contract, society forfeits some freedoms for protection. These laws are the prohibitions of those select freedoms. They don't stem from what God requires of us, they stem from what we require of a democratic government. You don't need religion to have morals, you just need a conscience.

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other. They may differ slightly, but they are more alike than anything else. You can have a democratic society and still have chaos.
History has proven this to be so. Just look at America today. We break the laws and we are punished, but we are still the most industrialized nation in the
Western world, yet our statistics makes us the worst of them all. There are more
civilized countries with less educational systems and democracy, that are not as developed. Yet they maintain a certain way about themselves which is not practiced here. Moral obligation is a democracy. This is why we fight wars.
This is why we feed the poor. This is why we value human life when it is necesary.
So you cannot have one without the other. We are sinners by nature, so we must have a compass. A moral one.

You just said the exact opposite of what I said. I said you don't need RELIGION to have morals, but you DO NEED CONSCIENCE. And you do not need religion to have conscience. And conscience stems from our need to peacefully coexist with each other in society. I made no reference to industry or education so I don't know why you brought any of that up. It didn't even make a coherent point. I was talking about laws and how their existence is a product of the Social Contract.
GreatestIam
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8/3/2011 3:28:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM, inferno wrote:

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other.

And where does your moral sense come from?
from the knowledge you have of what is good and what is evil.

And yet, the moment A & E gained their moral sense by eating of the tree of knowledge and became like God's, God's words, he threw a sissy fit and punishes all the earth instead of just A & E and went completely against scriptures that say we are responsible for our own sins and our children should not bear that burden.

I guess God just can't quite get things straight in his own immoral mind.

Regards
DL
inferno
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8/3/2011 3:29:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 3:19:49 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 2:56:54 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 2:38:09 PM, inferno wrote:
There are some things that were left out of the Bible. The details in some cases were not included. So we do not know why to everything under the sun.
I could care less myself, these things are not my concern. You sound more agnostic than anything else. I think you are confused more so than you would like to admit. But God loves you and if He did not, then He would not be who He says He is. But guess what my friend, He is. Like it or not.

I am Agnostic, as I explained in our other debate. And I would love it if there were a God. Certainly not this one. But some benevolent force concerned with our well being. Sadly, I've seen no evidence. Not even anything to arouse suspicion that there might exist such a thing.
In the post above this one you said, "You have to understand though, these laws stem from what God requires of us.
Thou Shall Not Kill, Thou Shall Not commit Adultery and so on."
Actually, these laws stem from what we require of the rest of society in order to live freely in semi-peacable cohabitation. Under the theory of social contract, society forfeits some freedoms for protection. These laws are the prohibitions of those select freedoms. They don't stem from what God requires of us, they stem from what we require of a democratic government. You don't need religion to have morals, you just need a conscience.

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other. They may differ slightly, but they are more alike than anything else. You can have a democratic society and still have chaos.
History has proven this to be so. Just look at America today. We break the laws and we are punished, but we are still the most industrialized nation in the
Western world, yet our statistics makes us the worst of them all. There are more
civilized countries with less educational systems and democracy, that are not as developed. Yet they maintain a certain way about themselves which is not practiced here. Moral obligation is a democracy. This is why we fight wars.
This is why we feed the poor. This is why we value human life when it is necesary.
So you cannot have one without the other. We are sinners by nature, so we must have a compass. A moral one.

You just said the exact opposite of what I said. I said you don't need RELIGION to have morals, but you DO NEED CONSCIENCE. And you do not need religion to have conscience. And conscience stems from our need to peacefully coexist with each other in society. I made no reference to industry or education so I don't know why you brought any of that up. It didn't even make a coherent point. I was talking about laws and how their existence is a product of the Social Contract.

It is not a social contract spiritually speaking. Harmony is neccesary for Man to progress in a productive way. This contract you speak of is instinctive if anything. It is indirect or subconscious. But it is not really an issue of not having a conscience. Religion is irrelevent to me. I go by the basic fundamentals of The Bible, and not the latter. But you cannot be without morals if you wish to enter into the Kingdom
Of God. And it is not blind faith that moves me. It is experience with the supernatural. I have been exposed to things you deem to be unreal.
So it is valid to me.
inferno
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8/3/2011 3:39:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 3:28:46 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM, inferno wrote:

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other.

And where does your moral sense come from?
from the knowledge you have of what is good and what is evil.

And yet, the moment A & E gained their moral sense by eating of the tree of knowledge and became like God's, God's words, he threw a sissy fit and punishes all the earth instead of just A & E and went completely against scriptures that say we are responsible for our own sins and our children should not bear that burden.

I guess God just can't quite get things straight in his own immoral mind.

Regards
DL

There is more to this story than anyone here can fathom. The tree you speak of was not a tree. It was the Book Of Knowledge. It was not supposed to be read by mankind. That was the ultimate sin that was introduced to us through Satan.
He was a fallen angel and was casted down to Earth along with his follwers.
This is mainly why you see evil on the Earth today. Evil evolved from the conscious mind of Lucifer who was named Satan when he was no longer of God.
This is where our free will come in. God did not interfere with our thought process, because this would contradict His reasons for us being able to think on our own.
That is the freedom that you Atheists claim we dont have. But we do.
Anyway, Adam and Eve sinned and the Earth was cursed because of the presence and influence of the devil. That is the way it is. The crucifixion put and end to the curse of man by giving us access to the Blood Of Jesus. Now we are free .
All you have to do is ask God to save you in order to have eternal life. Nothing more.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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8/3/2011 4:00:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 3:18:09 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:37:08 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:25:19 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 1:21:41 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't have a choice.

You can't "choose" to follow God, everyone does, whether they acknowledge it or not.

If God wasn't genocidal, Earth would get ridiculously crowded. We'd probably be able to build a human ladder to the moon! Things would be insanely different if God wasn't genocidal. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Only humans worry about these silly things.

Yep. Victims of genocide should not worry about such a silly form of justice.
All secular governments should adopt that policy.

Regards
DL

You are going to die. You can stage as man protests as you want, and get a billion signatures on a petition. You can rally up an army consisting of the entirety of the human race, but God will not give into your demands.

You're going to die, brah. Might as well accept the fact. That, and accept the fact that you are God's little puppet. You are submitting to God whether you like it or think you are or not.

Keep your slave mentality all you want. That does not mean that you have to go along with the low morals that your master shows.

Regards
DL

What morals?

And for the record, You are a slave. I challenge you to violate the first law of Thermodynamics. You are not a supernatural being, as none exist. You can not violate God's law. You are his buttslave.

No amount of wishful thinking is going to ultimately detach yourself from actuality.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
YouAreWrong
Posts: 28
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8/3/2011 4:05:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 3:39:55 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:28:46 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM, inferno wrote:

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other.

And where does your moral sense come from?
from the knowledge you have of what is good and what is evil.

And yet, the moment A & E gained their moral sense by eating of the tree of knowledge and became like God's, God's words, he threw a sissy fit and punishes all the earth instead of just A & E and went completely against scriptures that say we are responsible for our own sins and our children should not bear that burden.

I guess God just can't quite get things straight in his own immoral mind.

Regards
DL

There is more to this story than anyone here can fathom. The tree you speak of was not a tree. It was the Book Of Knowledge. It was not supposed to be read by mankind. That was the ultimate sin that was introduced to us through Satan.
He was a fallen angel and was casted down to Earth along with his follwers.
This is mainly why you see evil on the Earth today. Evil evolved from the conscious mind of Lucifer who was named Satan when he was no longer of God.
This is where our free will come in. God did not interfere with our thought process, because this would contradict His reasons for us being able to think on our own.
That is the freedom that you Atheists claim we dont have. But we do.
Anyway, Adam and Eve sinned and the Earth was cursed because of the presence and influence of the devil. That is the way it is. The crucifixion put and end to the curse of man by giving us access to the Blood Of Jesus. Now we are free .
All you have to do is ask God to save you in order to have eternal life. Nothing more.

This will get a bit messy.

First of all, if all one has to do is ask God for forgiveness in order to be saved then why does God see fit to punish us while we are still alive? According to you, free will was given to humans as a test. So that they can decide what to do with their lives and whether or not they wanted to follow the instructions of God so that in the end God could judge their actions and deem them worthy or unworthy of Heaven. When God decides to kill someone for their sins it's a direct violation of the principles of free will. If all of man sins then it's unfair and immoral to kill them off before they've seen the "error" in their ways and decided to repent. When God sent the flood he didn't give anyone warning or a chance to change or reconcile. He just killed them and sent all of those people he supposedly "loved" to hell.
Also, the fault of the existence of Sin fell on Adam and Eve. Because of their disobedience he punished the entirety of the human race because he was either unable or unwilling to keep Lucifer out of the Garden of Eden. Thereby condemning all of mankind for the mistake of two people.
And it's absurd that all someone has to do after killing an entire family or raping some is ask God to forgive them and get off scot free. There is no justice in that.
God wipes out Sodom and Gommorah for sexual promiscuity but allows Lot and his family to escape. (Though he does kills Lot's wife, an innocent women just for turning around for an instant to see what has happening to her home behind her.) And after all of that destruction and killing because some people wanted to have sex in a way that made them feel truly good, he turns a blind eye to the fact that Lot's daughter's get him drunk and have sex with him so they can start a new tribe.
The contradictions, injustice, unfairness, ignorance, hypocrisy, and malevolence of God are too numerous to ignore. So how do you manage to overlook every TRULY EVIL thing that God has done?

He's more evil than the devil. Here's the death toll.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com...
Killings
God 2,476,633
Satan 10

The floor is yours.
inferno
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8/3/2011 4:23:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 4:05:00 PM, YouAreWrong wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:39:55 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:28:46 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 8/3/2011 3:08:14 PM, inferno wrote:

Having a conscience does not require morality ? Of course it does, because these
two elements coincide with each other.

And where does your moral sense come from?
from the knowledge you have of what is good and what is evil.

And yet, the moment A & E gained their moral sense by eating of the tree of knowledge and became like God's, God's words, he threw a sissy fit and punishes all the earth instead of just A & E and went completely against scriptures that say we are responsible for our own sins and our children should not bear that burden.

I guess God just can't quite get things straight in his own immoral mind.

Regards
DL

There is more to this story than anyone here can fathom. The tree you speak of was not a tree. It was the Book Of Knowledge. It was not supposed to be read by mankind. That was the ultimate sin that was introduced to us through Satan.
He was a fallen angel and was casted down to Earth along with his follwers.
This is mainly why you see evil on the Earth today. Evil evolved from the conscious mind of Lucifer who was named Satan when he was no longer of God.
This is where our free will come in. God did not interfere with our thought process, because this would contradict His reasons for us being able to think on our own.
That is the freedom that you Atheists claim we dont have. But we do.
Anyway, Adam and Eve sinned and the Earth was cursed because of the presence and influence of the devil. That is the way it is. The crucifixion put and end to the curse of man by giving us access to the Blood Of Jesus. Now we are free .
All you have to do is ask God to save you in order to have eternal life. Nothing more.

This will get a bit messy.

First of all, if all one has to do is ask God for forgiveness in order to be saved then why does God see fit to punish us while we are still alive? According to you, free will was given to humans as a test. So that they can decide what to do with their lives and whether or not they wanted to follow the instructions of God so that in the end God could judge their actions and deem them worthy or unworthy of Heaven. When God decides to kill someone for their sins it's a direct violation of the principles of free will. If all of man sins then it's unfair and immoral to kill them off before they've seen the "error" in their ways and decided to repent. When God sent the flood he didn't give anyone warning or a chance to change or reconcile. He just killed them and sent all of those people he supposedly "loved" to hell.
Also, the fault of the existence of Sin fell on Adam and Eve. Because of their disobedience he punished the entirety of the human race because he was either unable or unwilling to keep Lucifer out of the Garden of Eden. Thereby condemning all of mankind for the mistake of two people.
And it's absurd that all someone has to do after killing an entire family or raping some is ask God to forgive them and get off scot free. There is no justice in that.
God wipes out Sodom and Gommorah for sexual promiscuity but allows Lot and his family to escape. (Though he does kills Lot's wife, an innocent women just for turning around for an instant to see what has happening to her home behind her.) And after all of that destruction and killing because some people wanted to have sex in a way that made them feel truly good, he turns a blind eye to the fact that Lot's daughter's get him drunk and have sex with him so they can start a new tribe.
The contradictions, injustice, unfairness, ignorance, hypocrisy, and malevolence of God are too numerous to ignore. So how do you manage to overlook every TRULY EVIL thing that God has done?

He's more evil than the devil. Here's the death toll.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com...
Killings
God 2,476,633
Satan 10

The floor is yours.

Wrong again. Noah told the entire world for many years that God wanted them
to change from their wicked ways. Now you must understand that Noah was the
messenger here. God does not really into killing humans for their sins. We inflict more damage upon ourselves because of Karma. The Hindu will tell you that.
But anyway, you cannot forget about the influence of Satan. The Bible says he is the god of this world and the principality of darkness. These forces of evil are
also supernatural. So because we are only human, it is much worse when one is
not a child of God. You are expendable ! You are a lost soul and death is your
enemy. Gods people should not fear that because they are guranteed eternal life.
You must ask for forgiveness and then receive The Gift Of The Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues. This is in the Bible, also. There is no other way, I dont care
what anyone else tells you. No Man can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven without his approval.
MarquisX
Posts: 925
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8/3/2011 5:10:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A genocidal God? God doesn't kill people. People kill people. God just let's it happen. Why? Free will. It is a serious sin for Christians to kill unless we absolutely need to. If he is genocidal why put this law on us? People who believe in God and follow God, greatly outnumber those who don't. If our God is evil, why are you still here? Why haven't we killed you?
Sophisticated ignorance, write my curses in cursive
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/3/2011 5:46:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wrong again. Noah told the entire world for many years that God wanted them
to change from their wicked ways. Now you must understand that Noah was the
messenger here.:

Inferno, you are aware that according to the bible only 8 people survived the Flood. That means that, literally millions of babies and young children, who couldn't possibly understand what sin is (let alone commit it), were also slaughtered. Explain.

God does not really into killing humans for their sins.:

I don't feel like looking up the 9,000 verses that state otherwise, but suffice it to say that God has no compunction in slaughtering even innocent babies.

But anyway, you cannot forget about the influence of Satan.:

And whose f*cking fault is that?!?!?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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8/3/2011 5:53:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:46:39 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Wrong again. Noah told the entire world for many years that God wanted them
to change from their wicked ways. Now you must understand that Noah was the
messenger here.:

Inferno, you are aware that according to the bible only 8 people survived the Flood. That means that, literally millions of babies and young children, who couldn't possibly understand what sin is (let alone commit it), were also slaughtered. Explain.

God does not really into killing humans for their sins.:

I don't feel like looking up the 9,000 verses that state otherwise, but suffice it to say that God has no compunction in slaughtering even innocent babies.

But anyway, you cannot forget about the influence of Satan.:

And whose f*cking fault is that?!?!?

Mankind has caused this and we are the ones who cause harm to one another.
So when these people rebelled against God, they sealed their own fate.
Death does not discriminate. When natural disasters occur, babies become victims, too. This is because of sin and the nature of Man. I believe the children are sent back to Heaven as they cannot conceive in their minds what salvation is. So God is merciful towards them for that reason. Eternal life is theirs, so death is no harm to them in God's eyes. Only Man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/3/2011 6:12:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 5:10:54 PM, MarquisX wrote:
A genocidal God? God doesn't kill people. People kill people. God just let's it happen. Why? Free will.:

No, no, no... There are verses where God unequivocally orders people to slaughter other people. How do you reconcile that?

It is a serious sin for Christians to kill unless we absolutely need to. If he is genocidal why put this law on us?:

Do as I say, not as I do.

People who believe in God and follow God, greatly outnumber those who don't. If our God is evil, why are you still here? Why haven't we killed you?:

Because you believe God thinks it would constitute murder.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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8/3/2011 6:16:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 6:12:01 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/3/2011 5:10:54 PM, MarquisX wrote:
A genocidal God? God doesn't kill people. People kill people. God just let's it happen. Why? Free will.:

No, no, no... There are verses where God unequivocally orders people to slaughter other people. How do you reconcile that?

It is a serious sin for Christians to kill unless we absolutely need to. If he is genocidal why put this law on us?:

Do as I say, not as I do.

People who believe in God and follow God, greatly outnumber those who don't. If our God is evil, why are you still here? Why haven't we killed you?:

Because you believe God thinks it would constitute murder.

If God told someone to "slaughter" someone as you put it, then it was about
war. War is necessary in some cases. But he is not about murdering others.
You are misinterpeting a lot of things here.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/3/2011 6:17:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mankind has caused this and we are the ones who cause harm to one another.
So when these people rebelled against God, they sealed their own fate.
Death does not discriminate. When natural disasters occur, babies become victims, too.:

Haha, the Flood was NOT a "natural" disaster, according to the bible. It was, specifically, caused by God because of man's iniquities -- god's judgment on mankind. So again I ask you, why were infants killed?

This is because of sin and the nature of Man. I believe the children are sent back to Heaven as they cannot conceive in their minds what salvation is.:

Who the f*ck cares what you believe? Immaterial. All that matters is what God says, and consequently for you the bible is silent on what happens to children before they reach the age of understanding consequence and sin.

The bible is, however, full of verses where God orders the Israelites to massacre babies, smashing their skulls on the rocks. Tsk, tsk...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)