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Respect the Enemy

Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/13/2011 3:21:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The title of this thread is a little tongue in cheek, I just thought I'd take the moment to praise two theists.

Innomen, is possibly the most patient, tolerant and reasonable person on the entire site. He presents himself honestly and with decorum.

VocMusTcrMaloy, deserves praise simply for this post here,
I believe it is the responsibility of the Christian Church to provide supernatural evidence for our beliefs. That is the whole topic of this debate: http://www.debate.org....... Church history beginning with the book of Acts is rife with reports of supernatural phenomena. Of course I don't expect an atheist to believe any of those reports. It is incumbent upon Christians to provide supernatural evidence to our generation, and not rely on or base our faith on past signs and wanders. If we truly serve a supernatural God, then we should operate supernaturally. The reason why we don't is because we don't meet His requirements. The reason why I am not an atheist today is because I have had too many supernatural experiences that concur with similar experiences in the Bible. I cannot use them as evidence to others; they are evidence for me personally. I respect an atheist for not wanting to blindly follow a religious system. I pray that God will provide real evidence for each atheist who reads this.

I can't really explain why this is such an intelligent comment, the Izbos and the Jharries won't understand. But for those that do... well it speaks for itself.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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8/13/2011 4:16:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I imagine you say it's an intelligent comment because it's honest and reasonable. Those are two properties not often seen together in people during religious discussions. Usually only one is present or neither is present.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
Christopheratheist
Posts: 29
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8/13/2011 4:22:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I pray that God will provide real evidence for each atheist who reads this.

It was a nice thought that we can explain or otherwise prove the existence of "god" or "gods" by upernatural evidence, but one thing I have realized over the years, as an atheist I know that if God himself appeared in front of me tonight, told me his words and how to receive salvation, had a little chat with me and such, that for the very brief time I would be singing hallelujahs all around the house, thanking god for saving me from an evil damnation. However come tomorrow morning I would speak to few atheist friends, perhaps go see a scientist or two because after all I had actually seen god, and before long people would be saying "Oh you know what could have happened right?" And by the end of the day I would be a disbeliever once more.

Another problem with this is that suppose a supernatural event changes my life, and I ascribe that to god the next valid question is "Well which way is gods way?" so I would end up reading the Bible, the Quran, The book of Mormon, the Talmud... so on so forth, and the likelihood is I would not find "Jesus" specifically to be god. (Plus it's worth mentioning that Tawheed vs Trinity, Tawheed wins every time.) I may also attribute my supernatural experience to ghosts, mermaids and so on.

The point I am making through all of this is that a "Supernatural" Phenomenon, is not evidence for the existence of god, it is simply something unexplained and best left to science.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/13/2011 5:02:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If "enemy" is referring to anyone of an opposing mind-set, I must give due respect to everyone here for their wildly colorful and diverse personas which have provided me with a bounty of insight and spurred many robust inceptions of intellectual and emotional stimulation within this twisted psyche of mine and which bring to fruition the collective soul of this community that I so cherish. I thank you.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 9:10:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 3:21:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
The title of this thread is a little tongue in cheek, I just thought I'd take the moment to praise two theists.

Innomen, is possibly the most patient, tolerant and reasonable person on the entire site. He presents himself honestly and with decorum.

VocMusTcrMaloy, deserves praise simply for this post here,
I believe it is the responsibility of the Christian Church to provide supernatural evidence for our beliefs. That is the whole topic of this debate: http://www.debate.org....... Church history beginning with the book of Acts is rife with reports of supernatural phenomena. Of course I don't expect an atheist to believe any of those reports. It is incumbent upon Christians to provide supernatural evidence to our generation, and not rely on or base our faith on past signs and wanders. If we truly serve a supernatural God, then we should operate supernaturally. The reason why we don't is because we don't meet His requirements. The reason why I am not an atheist today is because I have had too many supernatural experiences that concur with similar experiences in the Bible. I cannot use them as evidence to others; they are evidence for me personally. I respect an atheist for not wanting to blindly follow a religious system. I pray that God will provide real evidence for each atheist who reads this.

I can't really explain why this is such an intelligent comment, the Izbos and the Jharries won't understand. But for those that do... well it speaks for itself.

The comment presented here is probably one of the best I have heard from a theist in the past several years.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/13/2011 9:28:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.

This thread is about 'respecting the enemy', not thrashing him in a series of insults. Innomen is reasonable: I have sustained long conversations with him and despite our different beliefs (he is a Christian; I, an atheist), he shows patience and tolerance. Those are assets that make up a great personality, which are sadly, and frankly, missing from your own.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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8/13/2011 9:31:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well I don't think we should show tolerance for stupidity, being unreasonable.
http://education.yahoo.com...
Capable of reasoning; rational: a reasonable person.

It is not rational to believe their is good reason for child rape when their is no evidence for it. To be reasonable means to go by the best available evidence. He fails to do so, so he is unreasonable.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/13/2011 9:32:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:31:45 AM, izbo10 wrote:
Well I don't think we should show tolerance for stupidity, being unreasonable.
http://education.yahoo.com...
Capable of reasoning; rational: a reasonable person.

It is not rational to believe their is good reason for child rape when their is no evidence for it. To be reasonable means to go by the best available evidence. He fails to do so, so he is unreasonable.

I suppose you never read his posts with an objective, unbiased eye.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/13/2011 9:35:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.

"You are a prize winning moron"--Cerebral Narcissist
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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8/13/2011 9:36:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also to truly respect someone you try to stop them from doing stupid things, you don't just let them think or do whatever they want you educate them.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 9:46:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Do you here this christians, don't be so disrespectful to say that nonchristians deserve eternal punishment, because they are all worthless.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/13/2011 9:46:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.

This presumes that you are consistently right, which is, in many cases, impossible to confirm. If you turn out to be wrong, then you have disrespected the concept of truth by not respecting what you regarded to be false.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/13/2011 9:47:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:35:33 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.

"You are a prize winning moron"--Cerebral Narcissist

Please refrain from ad hominem on this site.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 9:52:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:46:52 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.

This presumes that you are consistently right, which is, in many cases, impossible to confirm. If you turn out to be wrong, then you have disrespected the concept of truth by not respecting what you regarded to be false.

So should I respect someone who believes unicorns exist. Or should I tell them they are wrong. We believe on the best available evidence and when their is no evidence you don't believe. Since their is no evidence for god it stays on the same level as unicorns. When you understand that we judge on best available evidence, and that is the only way we have it makes it possible to make these judgments.

Their is a reason we don't respect the opinion of people who say the holocaust never happened. Yes, it could be a massive conspiracy but what are the odds of that. .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001? That may even be too high. We have no reason to believe the odd of god existing is higher.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/13/2011 9:53:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:52:09 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:46:52 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.

This presumes that you are consistently right, which is, in many cases, impossible to confirm. If you turn out to be wrong, then you have disrespected the concept of truth by not respecting what you regarded to be false.


So should I respect someone who believes unicorns exist. Or should I tell them they are wrong. We believe on the best available evidence and when their is no evidence you don't believe. Since their is no evidence for god it stays on the same level as unicorns. When you understand that we judge on best available evidence, and that is the only way we have it makes it possible to make these judgments.

Their is a reason we don't respect the opinion of people who say the holocaust never happened. Yes, it could be a massive conspiracy but what are the odds of that. .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001? That may even be too high. We have no reason to believe the odd of god existing is higher.

You love derailing threads, don't you?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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8/13/2011 9:55:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 9:57:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am more conifident that christianity is wrong then those holocaust deniers are wrong and I would bet everything the holocaust deniers are wrong.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
seraine
Posts: 734
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8/13/2011 10:48:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.

DERAIL!

izbo, I think you don't understand what innomen is saying.
izbo10
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8/13/2011 10:52:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 10:48:52 AM, seraine wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.

DERAIL!

izbo, I think you don't understand what innomen is saying.

No he just doesn't understand what his statements mean when you follow them to their logical conclusion.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/13/2011 10:54:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 10:52:54 AM, izbo10 wrote:

No he just doesn't understand what his statements mean when you follow them to their logical conclusion.

Izbo, this is sad. You appear to be losing your passion. Even Corky from heaven is shaking his head at you.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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8/13/2011 11:03:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
See once you say god is perfect and say he decide to allow child rape to be allowed.

Here is the logical syllogism

premise 1: God is perfect.
premise 2: perfection is excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement.
premise 3: Based on the definition of perfect, a perfect being can only make decisions beyond practical or theoretical improvement decisions.
premise 4:God decided to allow child rape

Conclusion God decision to allow child rape is beyond practical or theoretical improvement.

http://dictionary.reference.com...

Sorry he can't follow this it is not my fault he is not reasonable which means to be rational or logical and this is simple logic.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 11:04:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 10:54:07 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 8/13/2011 10:52:54 AM, izbo10 wrote:

No he just doesn't understand what his statements mean when you follow them to their logical conclusion.

Izbo, this is sad. You appear to be losing your passion. Even Corky from heaven is shaking his head at you.

I show how he fails to follow them. He has said god is perfect and god decided to allow child rape. So then I showed how he MUST CONCLUDE this is perfect.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/13/2011 11:06:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I know, I know he has excuses. But the fact that he makes them shows that he knows that this is probably not true and one of his beliefs is wrong. But he just refuses to question his belief in god and would rather play child rape off like it is not important.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Steve0Yea
Posts: 91
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8/13/2011 11:26:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:52:09 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:46:52 AM, wjmelements wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:32:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
By respecting others false beliefs you are disrespecting the concept of truth. Why is this so hard to comprehend.

This presumes that you are consistently right, which is, in many cases, impossible to confirm. If you turn out to be wrong, then you have disrespected the concept of truth by not respecting what you regarded to be false.


So should I respect someone who believes unicorns exist. Or should I tell them they are wrong. We believe on the best available evidence and when their is no evidence you don't believe. Since their is no evidence for god it stays on the same level as unicorns. When you understand that we judge on best available evidence, and that is the only way we have it makes it possible to make these judgments.

Their is a reason we don't respect the opinion of people who say the holocaust never happened. Yes, it could be a massive conspiracy but what are the odds of that. .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001? That may even be too high. We have no reason to believe the odd of god existing is higher.

I have to agree with izbo on this one... This is going to sound really bad, but i rarely respect ANYONE whom believes in Christianity. Religion in general is so morally messed up and backwards that i find it very hard to believe that so many people actually label themselves as Christians or Catholics or religious. Its our job as human beings to educate the masses and let them know what it is they actually believe in. The fact is most Christians i speak to don't even know the bible HALF as well as i do which is sad because i haven't read it in years. I personally think that if we actually educate religious people (or people in general) on both sides of God (Meaning, he is real/he isn't), that they will chose the more logical side. Once they know what it is they are saying they believe in I'm sure some, not all, will remove that label from themselves and attempt to open their mind up a bit more and learn. They will pick up books and read Aristotle, Hawking, Hitchens, Socrates, Plato. These men are all way more interesting and thought provoking when they are wrong than the bible ever is even if it is right. (Which its obviously not.)

That actually gave me an idea. Bibles for Books... (Or Lies for Knowledge) Haha. I wish i was rich I would totally do that.... Anyways...

I cannot respect the enemy in this case because of his beliefs. I can respect his debating ability, the points he makes and even his loyalty to an argument that he cannot win. But i cannot respect HIM because he is spreading lies as truth, he is dumb-ing down our country and giving people false hope.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/13/2011 11:38:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.

That just tells us everything we need to know about you. Goodbye Izbo.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
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8/13/2011 11:52:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 11:38:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.

That just tells us everything we need to know about you. Goodbye Izbo.

My guess is there must be some sort of personal experience that explains his fixation on child rape.
izbo10
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8/13/2011 12:06:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/13/2011 11:52:27 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/13/2011 11:38:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/13/2011 9:25:37 AM, izbo10 wrote:
I have to disagree about Innomen, he is not reasonable, he is quite unreasonable and also not of high moral character from my conversations. He totally disrespects the suffering of child rape and makes poor excuses for it.

That just tells us everything we need to know about you. Goodbye Izbo.

My guess is there must be some sort of personal experience that explains his fixation on child rape.

Further proof that you are not reasonable, ad hominem that doesn't even attempt to address the actual point. I am the one saying it is wrong, you are the one defending it. I use it because its inexcusable, if you use murder, morally corrupted christians say the victim went to heaven so it was all good. That is how sick your religion is. So I use child rape, which may be worse, and has no such out. I used murder for a while, then I realized christians had no moral compass on that what so ever since they thought all victims went to heaven.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.