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Churches promote Islam

kohai
Posts: 380
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8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa. Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/17/2011 2:51:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa.

My reaction was the same too. I thought it hypocritical, in a sense, for two institutions that proclaim that there's is the only way to God to promote the other. I get all the we are with each other and god doesn't tell us to fight, but the core of the idea is hypocritical to me.

Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Now that's a little extreme. Government + Religion has always been disastrous.
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/17/2011 3:03:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 2:51:30 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa.

My reaction was the same too. I thought it hypocritical, in a sense, for two institutions that proclaim that there's is the only way to God to promote the other. I get all the we are with each other and god doesn't tell us to fight, but the core of the idea is hypocritical to me.

D


Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Now that's a little extreme. Government + Religion has always been disastrous.

Not when you realise the horrible thongs done in religion. Religion kills. There is a reason we don't allow human sacrifices,so why not abolish al religion since religion kills?
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/17/2011 3:19:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 3:03:17 AM, kohai wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:51:30 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa.

My reaction was the same too. I thought it hypocritical, in a sense, for two institutions that proclaim that there's is the only way to God to promote the other. I get all the we are with each other and god doesn't tell us to fight, but the core of the idea is hypocritical to me.

D


Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Now that's a little extreme. Government + Religion has always been disastrous.

Not when you realise the horrible thongs done in religion.

Thongs and religion would probably have never been used by me in the same sentence. I'm just a little conservative in that way. :D

Religion kills. There is a reason we don't allow human sacrifices,so why not abolish al religion since religion kills?

Are you referring to animal sacrifices or communal violence?
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/17/2011 3:38:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 3:19:53 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/17/2011 3:03:17 AM, kohai wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:51:30 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa.

My reaction was the same too. I thought it hypocritical, in a sense, for two institutions that proclaim that there's is the only way to God to promote the other. I get all the we are with each other and god doesn't tell us to fight, but the core of the idea is hypocritical to me.

D


Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Now that's a little extreme. Government + Religion has always been disastrous.

Not when you realise the horrible thongs done in religion.

Thongs and religion would probably have never been used by me in the same sentence. I'm just a little conservative in that way. :D

Religion kills. There is a reason we don't allow human sacrifices,so why not abolish al religion since religion kills?

Are you referring to animal sacrifices or communal violence?

Both...and the evil practice of faith healing which needlessly kills children!
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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8/17/2011 3:48:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 3:38:21 AM, kohai wrote:
At 8/17/2011 3:19:53 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/17/2011 3:03:17 AM, kohai wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:51:30 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa.

My reaction was the same too. I thought it hypocritical, in a sense, for two institutions that proclaim that there's is the only way to God to promote the other. I get all the we are with each other and god doesn't tell us to fight, but the core of the idea is hypocritical to me.

D


Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Now that's a little extreme. Government + Religion has always been disastrous.

Not when you realise the horrible thongs done in religion.

Thongs and religion would probably have never been used by me in the same sentence. I'm just a little conservative in that way. :D

Religion kills. There is a reason we don't allow human sacrifices,so why not abolish al religion since religion kills?

Are you referring to animal sacrifices or communal violence?

Both...and the evil practice of faith healing which needlessly kills children!

Animal sacrifices: Not different from meat eating in my books. Ban meat eating first.

Communal violence: This calls for a law situation. They are triggered by politics, usually- and not the actual religion. If it were not religion, they would look at ethnicities, races, religion is not the cause of such violence. It's a means.

Faith healing: Awareness can easily counter this.

You don't cut the nose because it smells bad.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/17/2011 7:04:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

Jesus comes across as a pacifist, not a warlord.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/17/2011 7:15:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa. Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Why don't we just rip up the Constitution while we're at it?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/17/2011 7:17:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

False. Jesus was Jewish.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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8/17/2011 8:01:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 7:17:01 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

False. Jesus was Jewish.

Response: False. His nationality and ethnicity is from a jewish background, but his religion was not judaism. It was islam, as proven from the Qur'an and Bible itself.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/17/2011 8:03:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 2:29:49 AM, kohai wrote:
Islam has no place in Christianity and vice versa. Furthermore, religion should be banned all together!

Religion should not have to be banned the education is out their. Their is no reason people should be believing nonsense stories that defy science and logic.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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8/17/2011 8:06:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 7:04:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

Jesus comes across as a pacifist, not a warlord.

Response: Jesus followed the orders of Allah, which was to spread the Gospel to the Israeites, not to humanity. If it was prescribed to Jesus to spread the word to all of humanity and establish islam, he most certainly would have been to war as Allah commanded. However, that was not his mission. That mission was prescribed for Muhammad (saw).
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/17/2011 8:10:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:06:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 7:04:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

Jesus comes across as a pacifist, not a warlord.

Response: Jesus followed the orders of Allah, which was to spread the Gospel to the Israeites, not to humanity. If it was prescribed to Jesus to spread the word to all of humanity and establish islam, he most certainly would have been to war as Allah commanded. However, that was not his mission. That mission was prescribed for Muhammad (saw).

So you do admit that Islam is a militant, indeed belligerent faith?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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8/17/2011 8:13:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:10:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:06:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 7:04:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

Jesus comes across as a pacifist, not a warlord.

Response: Jesus followed the orders of Allah, which was to spread the Gospel to the Israeites, not to humanity. If it was prescribed to Jesus to spread the word to all of humanity and establish islam, he most certainly would have been to war as Allah commanded. However, that was not his mission. That mission was prescribed for Muhammad (saw).

So you do admit that Islam is a militant, indeed belligerent faith?

Response: Muhammad's humble nature and the fact that he and the early muslims were attacked and persecuted for years before fighting back demonstrates that islam is not militant or beligerent. There is no compulsion in religion. (Ch. 2: 256).
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/17/2011 8:15:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:13:52 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:10:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:06:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 7:04:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

Jesus comes across as a pacifist, not a warlord.

Response: Jesus followed the orders of Allah, which was to spread the Gospel to the Israeites, not to humanity. If it was prescribed to Jesus to spread the word to all of humanity and establish islam, he most certainly would have been to war as Allah commanded. However, that was not his mission. That mission was prescribed for Muhammad (saw).

So you do admit that Islam is a militant, indeed belligerent faith?

Response: Muhammad's humble nature and the fact that he and the early muslims were attacked and persecuted for years before fighting back demonstrates that islam is not militant or beligerent. There is no compulsion in religion. (Ch. 2: 256).

Hold on... you say that Allah was commanded to go to war? Which is it. Did he initiate wars or merely defend himself. (We know it's not the latter, he raided merchant caravans after all!)
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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8/17/2011 8:17:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:15:41 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:13:52 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:10:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:06:29 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 7:04:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam. If you equate the words of Paul with Jesus in the bibe, you have christianity. If you just read the words of Jesus in the Bible, you have islam. The religions are very close in relation.

Jesus comes across as a pacifist, not a warlord.

Response: Jesus followed the orders of Allah, which was to spread the Gospel to the Israeites, not to humanity. If it was prescribed to Jesus to spread the word to all of humanity and establish islam, he most certainly would have been to war as Allah commanded. However, that was not his mission. That mission was prescribed for Muhammad (saw).

So you do admit that Islam is a militant, indeed belligerent faith?

Response: Muhammad's humble nature and the fact that he and the early muslims were attacked and persecuted for years before fighting back demonstrates that islam is not militant or beligerent. There is no compulsion in religion. (Ch. 2: 256).

Hold on... you say that Allah was commanded to go to war? Which is it. Did he initiate wars or merely defend himself. (We know it's not the latter, he raided merchant caravans after all!)

Response: Being commanded to go to war is not the same as starting the war. Muslims were commanded to defend themselves. And we know that it's the latter, which is why you made the statement of raiding caravans with no logical evidence.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/17/2011 8:25:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:17:49 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Being commanded to go to war is not the same as starting the war. Muslims were commanded to defend themselves. And we know that it's the latter, which is why you made the statement of raiding caravans with no logical evidence.

If you are commanded to initiate war by God, you are commanded to initiate war by God.

The raiding of caravans is a well recorded fact of Islamic history.

Pray tell... did the Muslims really conquer an Empire that stretched from southern France to India all through self-defence?

Sorry I know this is slightly of topic!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
baggins
Posts: 855
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8/17/2011 8:34:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Indeed a welcome step.

http://www.faithshared.org...
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/17/2011 8:43:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam.:

You do know that Jesus predated Islam by about 600 years, yes?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/17/2011 9:05:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:43:27 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/17/2011 6:51:25 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 8/17/2011 2:14:37 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
http://www.wnd.com...

Thoughts?

Response: Jesus(Sas) is a muslim so it is quite fitting that a church promotes the teachings of Jesus, which is naturally islam.:

You do know that Jesus predated Islam by about 600 years, yes?

It is a genuine Islamic opinion. As they regard Mohammed as the last in the line of Prophets their religion began at the very start.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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8/17/2011 9:43:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:25:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:17:49 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Being commanded to go to war is not the same as starting the war. Muslims were commanded to defend themselves. And we know that it's the latter, which is why you made the statement of raiding caravans with no logical evidence.

If you are commanded to initiate war by God, you are commanded to initiate war by God.

The raiding of caravans is a well recorded fact of Islamic history.

Pray tell... did the Muslims really conquer an Empire that stretched from southern France to India all through self-defence?

This question, I've seen asked in lots of places.

I'll just try and see if this is logically possible.

Suppose I'm trying to do some stuff that I'm prevented from doing. I'm prevented by being attacked. I then defend myself and am successful, and now have the attackers under my mercy.

Now what should I do with the attackers?

If I let them go, they might attack me again. So, I imprison them. Now, since these attackers are leaders of some clan or tribe, I have to now contend with members of the tribe trying to attack me. This happens, so now I'm in a war with the tribe. I win this also. Now, what happens to the tribe? Do I now choose a person who does not want to attack me as their leader? A person who's loyal to me?

I would think so. This would make the tribe live by my rules, since I'm the "victor".

Now, carry this over so that there are many other attackers and I win against them by successfully defending myself.

Can one then attain rulership over an empire through self-defense only?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/17/2011 9:45:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:43:03 AM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:25:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:17:49 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Being commanded to go to war is not the same as starting the war. Muslims were commanded to defend themselves. And we know that it's the latter, which is why you made the statement of raiding caravans with no logical evidence.

If you are commanded to initiate war by God, you are commanded to initiate war by God.

The raiding of caravans is a well recorded fact of Islamic history.

Pray tell... did the Muslims really conquer an Empire that stretched from southern France to India all through self-defence?

This question, I've seen asked in lots of places.

I'll just try and see if this is logically possible.

Suppose I'm trying to do some stuff that I'm prevented from doing. I'm prevented by being attacked. I then defend myself and am successful, and now have the attackers under my mercy.

Now what should I do with the attackers?

If I let them go, they might attack me again. So, I imprison them. Now, since these attackers are leaders of some clan or tribe, I have to now contend with members of the tribe trying to attack me. This happens, so now I'm in a war with the tribe. I win this also. Now, what happens to the tribe? Do I now choose a person who does not want to attack me as their leader? A person who's loyal to me?

I would think so. This would make the tribe live by my rules, since I'm the "victor".

Now, carry this over so that there are many other attackers and I win against them by successfully defending myself.

Can one then attain rulership over an empire through self-defense only?

In theory, but to have created the Islamic Empire by self-defense alone seems rather unlikely!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/17/2011 9:47:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If we can say Jesus was Muslim, we may as well say Jesus was Christian too.

Saying "let's not kill each other" isn't quite the same as promoting Islam. They are just trying to find moderate ground short of a holy war.

The OP title is misleading in a subtle way.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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8/17/2011 9:52:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:45:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 9:43:03 AM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:25:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:17:49 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Being commanded to go to war is not the same as starting the war. Muslims were commanded to defend themselves. And we know that it's the latter, which is why you made the statement of raiding caravans with no logical evidence.

If you are commanded to initiate war by God, you are commanded to initiate war by God.

The raiding of caravans is a well recorded fact of Islamic history.

Pray tell... did the Muslims really conquer an Empire that stretched from southern France to India all through self-defence?

This question, I've seen asked in lots of places.

I'll just try and see if this is logically possible.

Suppose I'm trying to do some stuff that I'm prevented from doing. I'm prevented by being attacked. I then defend myself and am successful, and now have the attackers under my mercy.

Now what should I do with the attackers?

If I let them go, they might attack me again. So, I imprison them. Now, since these attackers are leaders of some clan or tribe, I have to now contend with members of the tribe trying to attack me. This happens, so now I'm in a war with the tribe. I win this also. Now, what happens to the tribe? Do I now choose a person who does not want to attack me as their leader? A person who's loyal to me?

I would think so. This would make the tribe live by my rules, since I'm the "victor".

Now, carry this over so that there are many other attackers and I win against them by successfully defending myself.

Can one then attain rulership over an empire through self-defense only?

In theory, but to have created the Islamic Empire by self-defense alone seems rather unlikely!

Well, given this theory, it's possible.

Now which parts of the Islamic Empire would you say was not won through self-defense?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Indophile
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8/17/2011 9:53:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:47:38 AM, Wnope wrote:
If we can say Jesus was Muslim, we may as well say Jesus was Christian too.

Saying "let's not kill each other" isn't quite the same as promoting Islam. They are just trying to find moderate ground short of a holy war.

The OP title is misleading in a subtle way.

That's true. Muslims say that Moses, Jesus, Abraham were all Muslims, then they say there's no need to listen to their teachings as we have the revised and updated version and Muhammad is the only one to follow.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/17/2011 9:57:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:52:06 AM, Indophile wrote:
Well, given this theory, it's possible.

Now which parts of the Islamic Empire would you say was not won through self-defense?

Uh....Mecca?
Indophile
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8/17/2011 11:12:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:57:25 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/17/2011 9:52:06 AM, Indophile wrote:
Well, given this theory, it's possible.

Now which parts of the Islamic Empire would you say was not won through self-defense?

Uh....Mecca?

True. But Wikipedia says that the Meccan tribe violated a treaty and killed some people of the tribe in Medina, and the treaty had provisions for retaliation if such a thing happens.

Does this not count as self defense, even if we forget the provisions of the treaty?
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Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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8/17/2011 11:24:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 8:25:02 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 8/17/2011 8:17:49 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: Being commanded to go to war is not the same as starting the war. Muslims were commanded to defend themselves. And we know that it's the latter, which is why you made the statement of raiding caravans with no logical evidence.

If you are commanded to initiate war by God, you are commanded to initiate war by God.

The raiding of caravans is a well recorded fact of Islamic history.

Pray tell... did the Muslims really conquer an Empire that stretched from southern France to India all through self-defence?

Sorry I know this is slightly of topic!

Response: Yet Muhammad was never ordered to initiate a war so your point is pointless. Furthermore, it is a known fact that did not use force to convert or conquer anyone nor raid any caravans, for it is impossible to conquer any or rule a nation with those beginnings. One man can not conquer a nation or start an empire by force.