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Question for divine command theorist

kohai
Posts: 380
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8/20/2011 11:23:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If objective morals exist, god exists.
Objective moral facts exist.
Therefore, god exists.

1. What god gave us those objective commands?
2. Are we more moral than that god?
3. If no, how can we interpret god's moral values?
4. If yes, why do we need god?
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/20/2011 11:25:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:23:37 PM, kohai wrote:
If objective morals exist, god exists.
Objective moral facts exist.
Therefore, god exists.

1. What god gave us those objective commands?
2. Are we more moral than that god?
3. If no, how can we interpret god's moral values?
4. If yes, why do we need god?

I don't think you even need to ask those questions, seeing as how premise 2 of the Command Theory isn't true.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/20/2011 11:26:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:25:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/20/2011 11:23:37 PM, kohai wrote:
If objective morals exist, god exists.
Objective moral facts exist.
Therefore, god exists.

1. What god gave us those objective commands?
2. Are we more moral than that god?
3. If no, how can we interpret god's moral values?
4. If yes, why do we need god?

I don't think you even need to ask those questions, seeing as how premise 2 of the Command Theory isn't true.

True. Morality isn't objective if it can change
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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8/20/2011 11:41:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1. A perfect and loving God
2. No
3. What does that even mean? We can know morality, although imperfectly (aka: seeing through a glass darkly)
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/20/2011 11:45:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:41:45 PM, Contradiction wrote:
1. A perfect and loving God

Which god? There are thousands of benevolent God's.

2. No
3. What does that even mean? We can know morality, although imperfectly (aka: seeing through a glass darkly)

So what if we are misinterpreting god's morality?
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/20/2011 11:50:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:47:31 PM, Contradiction wrote:
1. A maximally great being. There can be only one of those.
2. Then we better correct ourselves.

In response to 2: then how could we correct ourselves, that is, if you know?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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8/20/2011 11:51:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If there's a standard of morality (Which there is on divine command theory), then you can correct yourself by measuring your actions according to that standard.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/20/2011 11:56:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:51:28 PM, Contradiction wrote:
If there's a standard of morality (Which there is on divine command theory), then you can correct yourself by measuring your actions according to that standard.

Yes, but kohai's scenario is that the standard which we thought was divine wasn't really divine. It seems as though it'd be impossible for correction, seeing as how we'd be none the wiser if our morality is divine.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
kohai
Posts: 380
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8/21/2011 12:03:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Contradiction, please read http://www.infidels.org...
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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8/21/2011 12:11:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:56:52 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/20/2011 11:51:28 PM, Contradiction wrote:
If there's a standard of morality (Which there is on divine command theory), then you can correct yourself by measuring your actions according to that standard.

Yes, but kohai's scenario is that the standard which we thought was divine wasn't really divine. It seems as though it'd be impossible for correction, seeing as how we'd be none the wiser if our morality is divine.

No, the type of correction I'm talking about is the same way we correct our sensory experiences when we suspect that we may have a faulty one. All that is required is that our intuitions are prima facie reliable. It would be problematic if in fact we have no reason to trust our moral intuitions at all, which strikes me as patently false.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/21/2011 3:13:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:23:37 PM, kohai wrote:
If objective morals exist, god exists.

Does not follow.

Objective moral facts exist.

No they don't.

Therefore, god exists.

1. What god gave us those objective commands?

Contradiction. God could direct us to objective morals, if he gives us morals then they are subjective.

2. Are we more moral than that god?
3. If no, how can we interpret god's moral values?
4. If yes, why do we need god?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/21/2011 3:14:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/20/2011 11:26:57 PM, kohai wrote:
At 8/20/2011 11:25:00 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/20/2011 11:23:37 PM, kohai wrote:
If objective morals exist, god exists.
Objective moral facts exist.
Therefore, god exists.

1. What god gave us those objective commands?
2. Are we more moral than that god?
3. If no, how can we interpret god's moral values?
4. If yes, why do we need god?

I don't think you even need to ask those questions, seeing as how premise 2 of the Command Theory isn't true.

True. Morality isn't objective if it can change

Not true.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.