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Medic and revelation

izbo10
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8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations? How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive? With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/30/2011 11:25:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 10:55:48 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 10:33:05 PM, Cobo wrote:
Can anyone find two girls one cup?
I can't seem to find it anymore......

That's a really crappy reply(pun intended)

Is that really all you have. I would say your revelation argument was just owned and since its well beyond your comprehension to defend you go to this.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/30/2011 11:41:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 11:25:48 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 10:55:48 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 10:33:05 PM, Cobo wrote:
Can anyone find two girls one cup?
I can't seem to find it anymore......

That's a really crappy reply(pun intended)

Is that really all you have. I would say your revelation argument was just owned and since its well beyond your comprehension to defend you go to this.

That was a joke, Izzie, not something I'd expect you to understand so it wasn't meant for you. I'm working on a response to your post, so don't get yer panties in a bunch.
izbo10
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8/31/2011 12:21:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 11:41:34 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 11:25:48 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 10:55:48 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 10:33:05 PM, Cobo wrote:
Can anyone find two girls one cup?
I can't seem to find it anymore......

That's a really crappy reply(pun intended)

Is that really all you have. I would say your revelation argument was just owned and since its well beyond your comprehension to defend you go to this.

That was a joke, Izzie, not something I'd expect you to understand so it wasn't meant for you. I'm working on a response to your post, so don't get yer panties in a bunch.

please do us all a favor and avoid conflating any of these three issues: Possibility, probability, and absolute certainty.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/31/2011 4:56:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations? How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive? With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

God sees your heart; your intention, your desire..

IF it is for Truth, nobility, light and love then you WILL receive revelation from Him.

IF it is to exult yourself, to cowardly 'go with the flow' (happens to be neo atheism now) then He will give you your choice and you will receive lies from the enemy..
The Cross.. the Cross.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/31/2011 8:01:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 4:56:17 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations? How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive? With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

God sees your heart; your intention, your desire..

IF it is for Truth, nobility, light and love then you WILL receive revelation from Him.

IF it is to exult yourself, to cowardly 'go with the flow' (happens to be neo atheism now) then He will give you your choice and you will receive lies from the enemy..

Why are you on a debate site if all you are going to do is assert that.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/31/2011 11:34:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations?

There's no way to test the veracity of the claims, so I don't think you can explain them. You can venture a guess, and make whatever claims you like, but it's nothing more than speculation on your part.

How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive?

There's no denying the cultural aspect, but that doesn't invalidate any particular belief system. Most atheists come from the US and Europe. Since there is a geographical component, does that invalidate atheism??
As I've already explained, I can't answer all questions and speak for everyone. I can only speak to what is right for me, and allow others to answer for themselves.

With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

Offering up your opinion on something does not give it explanatory power. How can you pretend to have an explanation for something that you can't even verify or evaluate, or have ever experienced?? Now you're venturing into the areas of sociology, and psychology. There seems to be no end to your areas of expertise. You're welcome to think what you want, but your theories have no credibility.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

Correlation may, or may not, mean causation. If indoctrination and exposure is the causative factor, why are so many people non-Christian?? Why do people who are raised Christian, turn to other faiths, or become atheists?? Why does Christianity flourish in other countries where it is not the norm??
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/31/2011 11:39:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 8:01:45 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/31/2011 4:56:17 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations? How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive? With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

God sees your heart; your intention, your desire..

IF it is for Truth, nobility, light and love then you WILL receive revelation from Him.

IF it is to exult yourself, to cowardly 'go with the flow' (happens to be neo atheism now) then He will give you your choice and you will receive lies from the enemy..

Why are you on a debate site if all you are going to do is assert that.

You'd do better to heed the words rather than ignorantly question why he's on the religion forum.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/31/2011 11:42:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Please prevent the perpetuation of Izbo's pandering. Don't feed the troll.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/31/2011 12:27:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 11:42:26 AM, 000ike wrote:
Please prevent the perpetuation of Izbo's pandering. Don't feed the troll.

So, what are your favorite books and folklore figures?

I must say that I enjoy reading Goethe's Faust (drama), The Trial by Kafka (novel), the short stories of Edgar Allen Poe, and so on.

For folklore:
"prefer the Green Man in relief, though king Oberon and his train of fairies from Shakespeare's 'A Midsummer's Night Dream' might suffice. Dionysus might work as well, along with a host of other figures in mythology: Wotan, Hecate, and so on..."
http://www.debate.org...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/31/2011 2:37:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 11:34:17 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations?

There's no way to test the veracity of the claims, so I don't think you can explain them. You can venture a guess, and make whatever claims you like, but it's nothing more than speculation on your part.

How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive?

There's no denying the cultural aspect, but that doesn't invalidate any particular belief system. Most atheists come from the US and Europe. Since there is a geographical component, does that invalidate atheism??
As I've already explained, I can't answer all questions and speak for everyone. I can only speak to what is right for me, and allow others to answer for themselves.

With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

Offering up your opinion on something does not give it explanatory power. How can you pretend to have an explanation for something that you can't even verify or evaluate, or have ever experienced?? Now you're venturing into the areas of sociology, and psychology. There seems to be no end to your areas of expertise. You're welcome to think what you want, but your theories have no credibility.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

Correlation may, or may not, mean causation. If indoctrination and exposure is the causative factor, why are so many people non-Christian?? Why do people who are raised Christian, turn to other faiths, or become atheists?? Why does Christianity flourish in other countries where it is not the norm??

I will go more in detail when i am home, but seriously, the first part of this response is that special kind of stupid, I have come to know and love from this board. Pure speculation, yup the explanation with the most explanatory power is not a method used by science, it is not the most probably option, it is pure speculation.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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8/31/2011 2:59:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 2:37:37 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/31/2011 11:34:17 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations?

There's no way to test the veracity of the claims, so I don't think you can explain them. You can venture a guess, and make whatever claims you like, but it's nothing more than speculation on your part.

How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive?

There's no denying the cultural aspect, but that doesn't invalidate any particular belief system. Most atheists come from the US and Europe. Since there is a geographical component, does that invalidate atheism??
As I've already explained, I can't answer all questions and speak for everyone. I can only speak to what is right for me, and allow others to answer for themselves.

With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

Offering up your opinion on something does not give it explanatory power. How can you pretend to have an explanation for something that you can't even verify or evaluate, or have ever experienced?? Now you're venturing into the areas of sociology, and psychology. There seems to be no end to your areas of expertise. You're welcome to think what you want, but your theories have no credibility.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

Correlation may, or may not, mean causation. If indoctrination and exposure is the causative factor, why are so many people non-Christian?? Why do people who are raised Christian, turn to other faiths, or become atheists?? Why does Christianity flourish in other countries where it is not the norm??

I will go more in detail when i am home, but seriously, the first part of this response is that special kind of stupid, I have come to know and love from this board. Pure speculation, yup the explanation with the most explanatory power is not a method used by science, it is not the most probably option, it is pure speculation.

Yep, and that arrogance you have, thinking you can diagnose an issue without having ever examined one of these people (not that you'd know what you're looking for if you had), is the arrogance I've come to know and laugh at. If you go to the doctor with stomach pain and he tells you it's most probably gas, then you later find out you have stomach cancer, will you still be so willing to rely on the "most probably option", as the way to answer an issue?? Answering everything with what's most probably the answer is absurd. No need to go into further detail because your diagnosis has no credibility.
Man-is-good
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8/31/2011 3:08:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Medic, no more feeding the troll. That will only give Izbo10 more incentive to stay here and to diminish the quality of this site.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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8/31/2011 3:19:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/31/2011 2:59:52 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/31/2011 2:37:37 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 8/31/2011 11:34:17 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 8/30/2011 8:36:32 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Here is a quote from his private messages with me: There are around 3 billion people who claim to have had this revelation, who know nothing of my story, yet have experienced something very similar.

OK, so if you look at this, his god does seem a reasonable explanation for revelation. He is not seeming to be unreasonable at the beginning. I will even forgive the argument from majority fallacy implemented here. This does seem to have the explanatory power to explain these revelations. Unfortunately, for good ole medic there is data he is either missing or ignoring. He is looking at the set of Christian revelation. Now with that there is the entire set of revelation. Lets draw this set:

Revelation( Christian revelation, Muslim Revelation, Buddhist Revelation, Cargo Cult revelation.... the list goes on)

Now that we have the entire set of revelation, we will now look at the explanatory power of his explanation in light of this new information. It leaves many unanswered questions. How do we explain all these other unexplained revelations?

There's no way to test the veracity of the claims, so I don't think you can explain them. You can venture a guess, and make whatever claims you like, but it's nothing more than speculation on your part.

How do we explain the strange correlation between geographic indoctrination and the revelation we receive?

There's no denying the cultural aspect, but that doesn't invalidate any particular belief system. Most atheists come from the US and Europe. Since there is a geographical component, does that invalidate atheism??
As I've already explained, I can't answer all questions and speak for everyone. I can only speak to what is right for me, and allow others to answer for themselves.

With these questions we can go back and see if there is an explanation that has more explanatory power, perhaps one that answer these questions.

Lets see, the second question actually seems to be the key here. The correlation to geographic indoctrination. When discovering tribes we have not found random tribes that have experienced Jesus. They discover Jesus after being indoctrinated. So, it appears that an explanation with the power to explain all revelation would be that preconceived indoctrination combined with certain neurological or psychological states will lead the person to a confirmation bias of their particular religious beliefs. Whether the creator of the religions intended this or whether it is just a random occurrence within the religions is up for debate. Most likely it depends on the religion on how that worked out. At this point it is safe to say that even a person who has experienced these said revelations would not be justified in believing it was actually cause by their god, once they are confronted with a explanation that has a far greater explanatory power then the one they previously had.

Offering up your opinion on something does not give it explanatory power. How can you pretend to have an explanation for something that you can't even verify or evaluate, or have ever experienced?? Now you're venturing into the areas of sociology, and psychology. There seems to be no end to your areas of expertise. You're welcome to think what you want, but your theories have no credibility.

To cut, the most ignorant of rebuttals off at the head. No, everyone you know was not an atheist. No you do not live in the United states and have avoided the Christian indoctrination. It is not coincidence that atheists in the United States who convert usually go christian, with Muslim coming in second. The reason for this goes back to the Correlation data. You turn on the tv and watch a couple hours you will here phrases like; "He has turned to the bible, he's a better person for it" or "thank you Jesus." You turn on even "evil" horror movies and the good guys are usually christian. Do a little experiment turn on your gps and check places of worship see how many come up in your location. You have been exposed to Christian indoctrination all your life.

Correlation may, or may not, mean causation. If indoctrination and exposure is the causative factor, why are so many people non-Christian?? Why do people who are raised Christian, turn to other faiths, or become atheists?? Why does Christianity flourish in other countries where it is not the norm??

I will go more in detail when i am home, but seriously, the first part of this response is that special kind of stupid, I have come to know and love from this board. Pure speculation, yup the explanation with the most explanatory power is not a method used by science, it is not the most probably option, it is pure speculation.

Yep, and that arrogance you have, thinking you can diagnose an issue without having ever examined one of these people (not that you'd know what you're looking for if you had), is the arrogance I've come to know and laugh at. If you go to the doctor with stomach pain and he tells you it's most probably gas, then you later find out you have stomach cancer, will you still be so willing to rely on the "most probably option", as the way to answer an issue?? Answering everything with what's most probably the answer is absurd. No need to go into further detail because your diagnosis has no credibility.

what did i tell you right from the beginning about conflating probability with absolute certainty.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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8/31/2011 8:22:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There's no way to test the veracity of the claims, so I don't think you can explain them. You can venture a guess, and make whatever claims you like, but it's nothing more than speculation on your part.

I am not venturing a guess, I am presenting a counter theory to your god theory and demonstrating how it has more explanatory power as it actually explains the whole of revelation not just your favorite revelations.

There's no denying the cultural aspect, but that doesn't invalidate any particular belief system. Most atheists come from the US and Europe. Since there is a geographical component, does that invalidate atheism??

Atheism actually more positively correlates with education. By the way you aren't stupid enough to think atheism is the same as religion are you? Atheism is merely the rejection of your (as a theist) claim.
As I've already explained, I can't answer all questions and speak for everyone. I can only speak to what is right for me, and allow others to answer for themselves.


Lol, the sad let everyone believe what they want to believe, the truth is not important to you, just as long as you can keep your comfort and interpret your revelations to mean Jesus wuv u wong time.

Offering up your opinion on something does not give it explanatory power. How can you pretend to have an explanation for something that you can't even verify or evaluate, or have ever experienced?? Now you're venturing into the areas of sociology, and psychology. There seems to be no end to your areas of expertise. You're welcome to think what you want, but your theories have no credibility.

We can verify it, I really don't think your stupidity has any bounds at this point. We have witness after witness claiming revelation for their religion. We then must find a solution to why they experience this. Not just an explanation that explains a the type you are predisposed to believe, but instead one that explains the entire phenomenon. I have presented a theory with this type of explanatory power.

Correlation may, or may not, mean causation. If indoctrination and exposure is the causative factor, why are so many people non-Christian?? Why do people who are raised Christian, turn to other faiths, or become atheists?? Why does Christianity flourish in other countries where it is not the norm??

Again we go back to strength of the indoctrination, being battled by education. Education is the pursuit of the truth, and places where Religion has lost control of the school system we are seeing less religion as childhood indoctrination is being battled by fact.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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9/1/2011 8:44:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 8:42:51 AM, Meatros wrote:
I haven't read the majority of the post, so I could be off here, but you shouldn't post something someone else has sent you via PM.

wah wah it wasn't anything of private detail, im sorry if he is embarrassed of his stupidity.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
innomen
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9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.
izbo10
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9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
innomen
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9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.
izbo10
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9/1/2011 11:03:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.

I wouldn't talk if i were you, you have done and said many stupid things.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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9/1/2011 11:07:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 11:03:44 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.

I wouldn't talk if i were you, you have done and said many stupid things.

How stupid do you have to be to share things in a pm, to someone who doesn't like you and expect it to not come back to haunt you when you contradict yourself.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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9/1/2011 11:08:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 11:03:44 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.

I wouldn't talk if i were you, you have done and said many stupid things.

True that.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/1/2011 11:12:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 11:07:18 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:03:44 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.

I wouldn't talk if i were you, you have done and said many stupid things.

How stupid do you have to be to share things in a pm, to someone who doesn't like you and expect it to not come back to haunt you when you contradict yourself.

Rest assured, it won't happen again.
izbo10
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9/1/2011 11:14:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 11:12:23 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:07:18 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:03:44 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.

I wouldn't talk if i were you, you have done and said many stupid things.

How stupid do you have to be to share things in a pm, to someone who doesn't like you and expect it to not come back to haunt you when you contradict yourself.

Rest assured, it won't happen again.

Good admission of being an idiot is a good thing, maybe now you can learn logic and how it works as well.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Meatros
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9/1/2011 2:01:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 8:44:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 8:42:51 AM, Meatros wrote:
I haven't read the majority of the post, so I could be off here, but you shouldn't post something someone else has sent you via PM.

wah wah it wasn't anything of private detail, im sorry if he is embarrassed of his stupidity.

That you would make it public says more about you than whatever he might have said in the PM.
Man-is-good
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9/1/2011 2:34:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 11:01:55 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:56:26 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 10:53:46 AM, innomen wrote:
Sharing PM's in the forums, without permission, is very uncool.

Even for you, there should be a modicum of decency in your conduct while here on DDO.

You guys have nothing to attack, but the fact that I shared the stupidity of medic, if you don't say something stupid you don't get in this position.

Someone really should sig that.

Izbo10, your conventional wisdom is paying off. From now on, every man will just shut his mouth and read his words before speaking them...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
izbo10
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9/1/2011 3:53:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 2:01:05 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 9/1/2011 8:44:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 8:42:51 AM, Meatros wrote:
I haven't read the majority of the post, so I could be off here, but you shouldn't post something someone else has sent you via PM.

wah wah it wasn't anything of private detail, im sorry if he is embarrassed of his stupidity.

That you would make it public says more about you than whatever he might have said in the PM.

it says a lot of medic, he got has a$$ handed to him on this topic in a pm, then is stupid enough to come on here with the same ignorant position that I already destroyed in PM. That needs to be shown.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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9/1/2011 3:56:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/1/2011 3:53:47 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 2:01:05 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 9/1/2011 8:44:57 AM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/1/2011 8:42:51 AM, Meatros wrote:
I haven't read the majority of the post, so I could be off here, but you shouldn't post something someone else has sent you via PM.

wah wah it wasn't anything of private detail, im sorry if he is embarrassed of his stupidity.

That you would make it public says more about you than whatever he might have said in the PM.


it says a lot of medic, he got has a$$ handed to him on this topic in a pm, then is stupid enough to come on here with the same ignorant position that I already destroyed in PM. That needs to be shown.

Why?