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Starlight and YEC

PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/2/2011 8:18:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Many Young Earth Creationists (YEC's) claim that the universe is roughly 6,000 years old, even though it is radiometrically proven to be epoch upon epoch's older than that.

We also know, empirically, that starlight takes millions of light years for the light they emit to actually hit your retina. That means the star you see at night conceivably has been burned out for thousands, if not millions of years ago.

This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/2/2011 8:21:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
God.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/2/2011 8:26:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 8:21:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
God.:

Oh, I'm fully expecting the king of all strawmen... The "Godditit," God-of-the-Gaps argument (I use the term "argument" here VERY loosely).

Whenever we can't explain something, we'll just say 'Goddidit' but offer no sound reason for why we can trust in such an inept answer that not only doesn't actually answer the question, but invariably creates more in the process.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
tkubok
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9/2/2011 10:22:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 8:26:36 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:21:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
God.:

Oh, I'm fully expecting the king of all strawmen... The "Godditit," God-of-the-Gaps argument (I use the term "argument" here VERY loosely).

Whenever we can't explain something, we'll just say 'Goddidit' but offer no sound reason for why we can trust in such an inept answer that not only doesn't actually answer the question, but invariably creates more in the process.

God works in mysterious ways, so they prefer to answer a mystery with a mystery.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/2/2011 12:04:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The YEC says, "Lul, you think you can time travel by looking into space. Who has the more stupid viewpoint?"
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
popculturepooka
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9/2/2011 12:09:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
God created the universe with the appearance of age so that everything can work right.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
CosmicAlfonzo
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9/2/2011 12:26:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Space is filled with lots of mirrors, so the light seems to be further away when it is actually just bouncing off the edge of the universe.

problem?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Wnope
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9/2/2011 1:14:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 12:09:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
God created the universe with the appearance of age so that everything can work right.

Meaning light was created ex nihilo? 6,000 years ago the universe started with light beams from every surrounding star already finishing their 100,000 million lightyear trip?

You can't hold that light must derive from a source and that the universe was created with the appearance of age unless you also hold that the universe isn't really more than 6,000 lightyears wide.
Wnope
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9/2/2011 1:14:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 12:26:38 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Space is filled with lots of mirrors, so the light seems to be further away when it is actually just bouncing off the edge of the universe.

problem?

The edge of the universe would have to be only 6,000 lightyears away.
popculturepooka
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9/2/2011 2:15:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 1:14:15 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:09:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
God created the universe with the appearance of age so that everything can work right.

Meaning light was created ex nihilo?

*shrug* I dunno. I don't endorse the position. I was just repeating what someone said ont his site wrt to the same topic.

6,000 years ago the universe started with light beams from every surrounding star already finishing their 100,000 million lightyear trip?

You can't hold that light must derive from a source and that the universe was created with the appearance of age unless you also hold that the universe isn't really more than 6,000 lightyears wide.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Tim_Spin
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9/2/2011 3:36:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 12:04:57 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
The YEC says, "Lul, you think you can time travel by looking into space. Who has the more stupid viewpoint?"

New Sigg. Cosmic has been redeemed.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/2/2011 3:55:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 8:26:36 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:21:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
God.:

Oh, I'm fully expecting the king of all strawmen... The "Godditit," God-of-the-Gaps argument (I use the term "argument" here VERY loosely).
That's not what "Strawman" means.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Tiel
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9/2/2011 5:52:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't understand what logical or rational reasons a human can come up with to determine the YEC theory true. All intelligent evidence shows it false. Even if you say that God created it to look old... Why would you think it necessary for God to do such a thing?

Is the only reasoning for people who believe the YEC theory found in a book called the Bible written by man? If so, that doesn't seem like a very solid case.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/3/2011 11:03:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 12:09:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
God created the universe with the appearance of age so that everything can work right.:

Are you being facetious? o.0
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/3/2011 11:09:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 3:55:36 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:26:36 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:21:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
God.:

Oh, I'm fully expecting the king of all strawmen... The "Godditit," God-of-the-Gaps argument (I use the term "argument" here VERY loosely).
That's not what "Strawman" means.:

You're strawmanning me and this thread :)
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/3/2011 11:13:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/3/2011 11:03:52 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/2/2011 12:09:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
God created the universe with the appearance of age so that everything can work right.:

Are you being facetious? o.0

I'm just repeating an answer someone gave me WRT to this topic.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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9/4/2011 12:33:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/2/2011 8:18:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Many Young Earth Creationists (YEC's) claim that the universe is roughly 6,000 years old, even though it is radiometrically proven to be epoch upon epoch's older than that.

We also know, empirically, that starlight takes millions of light years for the light they emit to actually hit your retina. That means the star you see at night conceivably has been burned out for thousands, if not millions of years ago.

This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?

Easy, God bends space-time to pull all the light from the stars into the solar system.
Wnope
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9/4/2011 12:57:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 12:33:35 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:18:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Many Young Earth Creationists (YEC's) claim that the universe is roughly 6,000 years old, even though it is radiometrically proven to be epoch upon epoch's older than that.

We also know, empirically, that starlight takes millions of light years for the light they emit to actually hit your retina. That means the star you see at night conceivably has been burned out for thousands, if not millions of years ago.

This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?

Easy, God bends space-time to pull all the light from the stars into the solar system.

So there is a sphere of bent space-time 6,000 lightyears in any direction from earth? That would cause quite a gravitational anomaly, definitely changing the rotation and direction of planets if not stars.

Are you familiar with how they calculate the distance of planets?
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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9/4/2011 1:07:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 12:57:53 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/4/2011 12:33:35 AM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 9/2/2011 8:18:28 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Many Young Earth Creationists (YEC's) claim that the universe is roughly 6,000 years old, even though it is radiometrically proven to be epoch upon epoch's older than that.

We also know, empirically, that starlight takes millions of light years for the light they emit to actually hit your retina. That means the star you see at night conceivably has been burned out for thousands, if not millions of years ago.

This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?

Easy, God bends space-time to pull all the light from the stars into the solar system.

So there is a sphere of bent space-time 6,000 lightyears in any direction from earth? That would cause quite a gravitational anomaly, definitely changing the rotation and direction of planets if not stars.

Are you familiar with how they calculate the distance of planets?

Who says the planets were around when he bent space time? So how do we know this is possible? #1 God is omnipotent. #2 Star Trek.

He could have unbent space-time when he was done fooling us into believing the universe was old.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/4/2011 2:05:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is actually one of the best arguments against YEC, but they would likely say something like "we don't know for sure the light is millions of years old".
Dan4reason
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9/4/2011 4:35:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 2:05:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is actually one of the best arguments against YEC, but they would likely say something like "we don't know for sure the light is millions of years old".

No it is not. The best arguments against YEC are the results of dating methods we have today.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/4/2011 7:23:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Insertnamehere seems to be spot on.
The luminous magnitude of stars to judge distance is a very very very poor way of judging distance and could be very wrong. It is a working theory that could change at any point.

I am not a YEC, but the claims of YEC are not that the universe is 6000 years old, but that the Earth is.
They recognize the Angles and Demons existed prior to the existence of the earth. The fall of Satan happened prior to the existence of the Earth etc.
The Angelic rebellion is the reason earth exists. God gave Satan earth to make into "Satan's" Heaven.

The age of the universe is not a topic of their discussion traditionally.
tkubok
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9/5/2011 10:46:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 7:23:25 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Insertnamehere seems to be spot on.
The luminous magnitude of stars to judge distance is a very very very poor way of judging distance and could be very wrong. It is a working theory that could change at any point.

Insertnamehere was talking about how creationists and YECs would make up excuses to ignore evidence. In which case, you are right, Insertnamehere is spot on.

But please, explain why Luminous magnitude of stars to judge distance, such as redshift and cephied variables, is a poor method of judging distance.

I am not a YEC, but the claims of YEC are not that the universe is 6000 years old, but that the Earth is.
They recognize the Angles and Demons existed prior to the existence of the earth. The fall of Satan happened prior to the existence of the Earth etc.
The Angelic rebellion is the reason earth exists. God gave Satan earth to make into "Satan's" Heaven.

The age of the universe is not a topic of their discussion traditionally.

Actually, it is. Kent Hovind, for example, has gone on record multiple times that he believes that the universe itself is less than 10,000 years old.
InsertNameHere
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9/5/2011 1:43:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 10:46:15 AM, tkubok wrote:

Actually, it is. Kent Hovind, for example, has gone on record multiple times that he believes that the universe itself is less than 10,000 years old.

lolololol and people actually take that guy seriously.
tkubok
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9/5/2011 5:48:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 1:43:41 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/5/2011 10:46:15 AM, tkubok wrote:

Actually, it is. Kent Hovind, for example, has gone on record multiple times that he believes that the universe itself is less than 10,000 years old.

lolololol and people actually take that guy seriously.

Yeah, i know, its stupid how many people still refer to Kent Hovind for their arguments.
InsertNameHere
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9/5/2011 6:27:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 5:48:11 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 9/5/2011 1:43:41 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/5/2011 10:46:15 AM, tkubok wrote:

Actually, it is. Kent Hovind, for example, has gone on record multiple times that he believes that the universe itself is less than 10,000 years old.

lolololol and people actually take that guy seriously.

Yeah, i know, its stupid how many people still refer to Kent Hovind for their arguments.

Yea. I may not be an atheist, but I can certainly recognize a stupid argument when I see one and that includes anything by Kent Hovind.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/6/2011 7:15:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?

Easy, God bends space-time to pull all the light from the stars into the solar system.:

Fascinating. And what evidence do you have that God "bends space-time," and why would God do that? That would presume that God is intentionally deceiving people. If so, for what purpose?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ramshutu
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9/6/2011 3:46:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 7:15:15 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?

Easy, God bends space-time to pull all the light from the stars into the solar system.:

Fascinating. And what evidence do you have that God "bends space-time," and why would God do that? That would presume that God is intentionally deceiving people. If so, for what purpose?

More to the point, do YEC's really think that God approves of the time, effort and millions of dollars they put into disproving proven science as millions of people die unnecessarily in Afica.
tkubok
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9/6/2011 6:51:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 3:46:43 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 9/6/2011 7:15:15 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
This being the case, how is it possible for the universe to only be a few thousand years old and yet have stars millions of lightyears away?

Easy, God bends space-time to pull all the light from the stars into the solar system.:

Fascinating. And what evidence do you have that God "bends space-time," and why would God do that? That would presume that God is intentionally deceiving people. If so, for what purpose?

More to the point, do YEC's really think that God approves of the time, effort and millions of dollars they put into disproving proven science as millions of people die unnecessarily in Afica.

Where you see a horrible and senseless death that coul easily be avoided with money, christians see it as sending more souls to god.