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I am now an agnostic

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are agnostic theists you know.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY. Because what you believe is a BELIEF, not a KNOWLEDGE. For example, I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god.

And, I don't mean this to be rude, but people who say that they are "just agnostic" are skirting the question--which is what do you BELIEVE, not KNOW.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/9/2011 7:30:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY.

Kinesis FTW?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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: I disagree.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/9/2011 7:32:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:30:02 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY.

Kinesis FTW?

I mean it'd be hard to find someone who, deep down, doesn't believe one way or the other.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
seraine
Posts: 734
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9/9/2011 7:35:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY. Because what you believe is a BELIEF, not a KNOWLEDGE. For example, I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god.

And, I don't mean this to be rude, but people who say that they are "just agnostic" are skirting the question--which is what do you BELIEVE, not KNOW.

That's exactly how I believe.

P.S. I meant your way.
seraine
Posts: 734
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9/9/2011 7:38:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:35:09 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY. Because what you believe is a BELIEF, not a KNOWLEDGE. For example, I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god.

And, I don't mean this to be rude, but people who say that they are "just agnostic" are skirting the question--which is what do you BELIEVE, not KNOW.

That's exactly how I believe.

P.S. I meant your way.

Also, I didn't know about all of the intricacies involving agnostics...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,333
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9/9/2011 7:40:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:38:21 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:35:09 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY. Because what you believe is a BELIEF, not a KNOWLEDGE. For example, I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god.

And, I don't mean this to be rude, but people who say that they are "just agnostic" are skirting the question--which is what do you BELIEVE, not KNOW.

That's exactly how I believe.

P.S. I meant your way.

Also, I didn't know about all of the intricacies involving agnostics...

I am agnostic about agnostics.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/9/2011 7:48:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.

For him, it obviously wouldn't be honest.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/9/2011 7:48:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've seen more Christians abandon their faith than any other religion in my lifetime. I have 3 more close friends who decided against it this year alone.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/9/2011 7:52:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:32:44 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:30:02 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:19:26 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:14:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
There are agnostic theists you know.

THIS.

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's agnostic ONLY.

Kinesis FTW?

I mean it'd be hard to find someone who, deep down, doesn't believe one way or the other.

That's Kinesis for ya.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
seraine
Posts: 734
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9/9/2011 8:06:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.

I was going to ask a question here, but I forgot to. How do you justify your belief in Christianity?
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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9/9/2011 8:18:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 8:06:50 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.

I was going to ask a question here, but I forgot to. How do you justify your belief in Christianity?

congrats on figuring this out about christianity, but i would like you to read my argument i put forth in a debate about agnosticism:

Thanks to my opponent firstly we must establish definitions

Theist- one who believes in the existence of a god or gods

http://www.thefreedictionary.com.........

gnostic- Of, relating to, or possessing intellectual or spiritual knowledge

http://www.thefreedictionary.com.........

a(prefix)- no, absence of, without, lack of, not

http://wordinfo.info.........

So, when it comes to belief in god, we have this dichotomy:

theist as defined: one who believes in the existence of a god or gods

and atheist- not one who believes in god.

This is basic, either you contain the positive attribute of belief or The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com.........

or you do not. So, in terms of belief there are theists and atheists.

When it comes to knowledge there are agnostics and there are gnostics. If, you really want to throw in the word agnostic to the theological question of belief, one must then decide are you agnostic atheist or agnostic theist.

Agnostic atheist meaning one who lacks belief in god, but also lacks the knowledge or agnostic theist one who possesses the positive attribute of belief in god, while lacking knowledge. Perhaps my opponent is confusing agnostic with weak and strong atheism.

weak atheism- a person who does not hold the positive position that there is no god, but lacks the belief in god.

strong atheism- a person who does hold the position that there is no god, therefore has no belief in god.

In conclusion, when asked if this was about belief in god, my opponent clearly said yes. Yet, his entire position being of the root word gnostic has to do with knowledge not belief. So, the position is non-sequitur. Even if the person says they don't know if they believe in god, that does not mean the person does not meet one of the definitions. In this case, that person should be atheist, as they clearly don't place trust or confidence in the existence of god. Which is what by definition belief in god is, and by definition since they are not one who places trust or confidence in the existence of god, they do not believe. This makes said person atheist. One of only 2 possible positions when it comes to belief.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/9/2011 8:36:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

Welcome to the club.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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9/9/2011 8:38:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's nice to see you are an agnostic, but do you believe in god? Or in other words do you place trust or confidence in a god?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/9/2011 8:50:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:48:17 PM, Tiel wrote:
I've seen more Christians abandon their faith than any other religion in my lifetime. I have 3 more close friends who decided against it this year alone.

Probably because Christianity makes no sense. The trinity seems to be the tough part for me to understand whenever people try to convert me to Christianity.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/9/2011 8:56:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 8:50:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:48:17 PM, Tiel wrote:
I've seen more Christians abandon their faith than any other religion in my lifetime. I have 3 more close friends who decided against it this year alone.

Probably because Christianity makes no sense. The trinity seems to be the tough part for me to understand whenever people try to convert me to Christianity.

Or perhaps because Christianity is the most popular religion in the world, and the US is around 80% Christian, one just has more of a chance to meet someone who converted away, not necessarily meaning that Christianity is any different from other religions.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
seraine
Posts: 734
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9/9/2011 9:22:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 8:38:39 PM, izbo10 wrote:
It's nice to see you are an agnostic, but do you believe in god? Or in other words do you place trust or confidence in a god?

Did you see this part "I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god."

to which I basically replied "this"?
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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9/9/2011 9:24:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 9:22:40 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 8:38:39 PM, izbo10 wrote:
It's nice to see you are an agnostic, but do you believe in god? Or in other words do you place trust or confidence in a god?

Did you see this part "I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god."

to which I basically replied "this"?
no i missed that part. Good, don't think anyone could be a gnostic atheist. Strong atheist yes, but not gnostic atheist.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
seraine
Posts: 734
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9/9/2011 9:25:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 7:48:17 PM, Tiel wrote:
I've seen more Christians abandon their faith than any other religion in my lifetime. I have 3 more close friends who decided against it this year alone.

And exactly how many more Christians do you know compared to other religions? for me, it was cause I was born into a Christian home and didn't actually question my beliefs til about age 11-12, at which point it took me about a year to change. I suspect it was the same for many people.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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9/9/2011 9:33:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 9:25:44 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:48:17 PM, Tiel wrote:
I've seen more Christians abandon their faith than any other religion in my lifetime. I have 3 more close friends who decided against it this year alone.

And exactly how many more Christians do you know compared to other religions? for me, it was cause I was born into a Christian home and didn't actually question my beliefs til about age 11-12, at which point it took me about a year to change. I suspect it was the same for many people.

I think the same thing is happening in the Jewish community, it is just harder to tell, as they lose their religious faith, but keep the Jewish culture. Islam is hard as it is still in the primitive stage of killing apostates, hopefully like christianity and Judaism, they will be dragged out of this mentality albeit this will happen with them kicking and screaming. Thats nothing new for religions.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/9/2011 9:51:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The biblical religions are starting to lose their foothold on humanity now that they can't kill everyone who opposes them and now that people are getting more intelligent with almost any information at their fingertips (internet).
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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9/9/2011 10:07:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 9:22:40 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 8:38:39 PM, izbo10 wrote:
It's nice to see you are an agnostic, but do you believe in god? Or in other words do you place trust or confidence in a god?

Did you see this part "I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, but I cannot say that I KNOW there's no god."

to which I basically replied "this"?

Don't fall into the trap of "agnostic or gnostic about God."

There are MANY versions of god.

Tell me, are you agnostic about the existence of a God that created the world 6,000 years ago and that mental illness is caused by demons?

Now, we may not be able to be 'positive' about anything, but the chances of unicorns, goblins, and fairies existing is much higher than the chances of this particular god existing.

Now, what about a Christian god who is "liberally" interpretted or the deistic God? The definitions reshapes to fit any evidence or logic, so we must remain "agnostic" to a larger extent than with the young earth creationist god.
Contradiction
Posts: 409
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9/9/2011 11:50:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 8:06:50 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.

I was going to ask a question here, but I forgot to. How do you justify your belief in Christianity?

I know Christianity is true through the witness of the Holy Spirit.

I show Christianity to be true through arguments and evidence.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/10/2011 12:21:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/9/2011 11:50:14 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 8:06:50 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.

I was going to ask a question here, but I forgot to. How do you justify your belief in Christianity?

I know Christianity is true through the witness of the Holy Spirit.

I show Christianity to be true through arguments and evidence.

You, like most Christians don't even know what the holy spirit is.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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9/10/2011 12:28:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/10/2011 12:21:55 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 11:50:14 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 8:06:50 PM, seraine wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:42:54 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:40:56 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:25:23 PM, Contradiction wrote:
At 9/9/2011 7:10:59 PM, seraine wrote:
I couldn't justify my belief in Christianity and made the only intellectually honest option available.

...

Is this really that hard to believe?

That one could abandon their faith? Yea. That Christianity is not intellectually honest? No.

I was going to ask a question here, but I forgot to. How do you justify your belief in Christianity?

I know Christianity is true through the witness of the Holy Spirit.

I show Christianity to be true through arguments and evidence.

You, like most Christians don't even know what the holy spirit is.

Please tell me.