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Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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9/15/2011 8:22:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What do we think about this? It's a children's book aimed at promoting scientific naturalism. Or, at the very least, that's my impression of it. I'd say that's a noble goal.

#!
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

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Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/15/2011 9:36:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/15/2011 8:22:20 PM, Freeman wrote:
What do we think about this? It's a children's book aimed at promoting scientific naturalism. Or, at the very least, that's my impression of it. I'd say that's a noble goal.

#!

The problem is that the information given as "facts" to children are not proven facts at all. They are only theories and observations. I would never teach my children that such things were fact. If I did, I would be a liar. That's the shame of the situation, both sides think they know the truth objectively when neither does. It's sad how human ignorance can cause so much competition and war in our world.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/16/2011 2:39:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is it a good story, does it amuse entertain and educate children? Does it feed their imagination? If yes I'll buy it for my kids and it can sit on the book shelf along with all the stories about wizards and warlocks and so and so forth.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
AH64_Apache
Posts: 4
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9/16/2011 3:44:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 2:39:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Is it a good story, does it amuse entertain and educate children? Does it feed their imagination? If yes I'll buy it for my kids and it can sit on the book shelf along with all the stories about wizards and warlocks and so and so forth.

I think that anything not proven scientifically should not play a role in the science syllabus. Only scientifically tested and proven facts have a place in a science textbook.
AH64_Apache
Posts: 4
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9/16/2011 3:55:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The entire thing where creationists try to link to science saying "creation science", "scientology" etc, none of them are actually science.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/16/2011 9:22:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 3:44:51 AM, AH64_Apache wrote:
At 9/16/2011 2:39:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Is it a good story, does it amuse entertain and educate children? Does it feed their imagination? If yes I'll buy it for my kids and it can sit on the book shelf along with all the stories about wizards and warlocks and so and so forth.

I think that anything not proven scientifically should not play a role in the science syllabus. Only scientifically tested and proven facts have a place in a science textbook.

In science yes, but young children should still be reading the typical stuff about witches and goblins. Older kids and adults can as well.

If it's a good childrens book I'll buy it for them. I may buy it for my nieces.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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9/16/2011 9:32:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The issue is that Dawkins is not merely an atheist, he's an anti-theist, which is altogether a completely different exercise.

Writing childrens books, explicitly in the interest of dissuading them from religion, is really no better than the very thing he condemns.

Militant atheism is every bit as obnoxious and injurious to child's mind than any one of the religions he claims do the same thing.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Jon1
Posts: 314
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9/16/2011 12:00:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 9:32:37 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
The issue is that Dawkins is not merely an atheist, he's an anti-theist, which is altogether a completely different exercise.

Writing childrens books, explicitly in the interest of dissuading them from religion, is really no better than the very thing he condemns.

Militant atheism is every bit as obnoxious and injurious to child's mind than any one of the religions he claims do the same thing.

My thoughts exactly
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/16/2011 12:17:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This isn't a book for children, this is a book for adults to laugh at.

I'd rather keep the fairy tales to be honest. More interesting, and I don't think that replacing the stories that children hear is going to necessarily have the most positive effect.

Part of growing up is fine tuning your BS detector.
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/16/2011 1:55:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 3:44:51 AM, AH64_Apache wrote:
At 9/16/2011 2:39:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Is it a good story, does it amuse entertain and educate children? Does it feed their imagination? If yes I'll buy it for my kids and it can sit on the book shelf along with all the stories about wizards and warlocks and so and so forth.

I think that anything not proven scientifically should not play a role in the science syllabus. Only scientifically tested and proven facts have a place in a science textbook.

Didn't realize that was a science textbook.
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Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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9/17/2011 2:17:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/16/2011 9:32:37 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
The issue is that Dawkins is not merely an atheist, he's an anti-theist, which is altogether a completely different exercise.

Writing childrens books, explicitly in the interest of dissuading them from religion, is really no better than the very thing he condemns.

Why are you placing religion on a pedestal? You're not even religious. Religion, from your perspective, is just another set of propositions that aren't likely to be true. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that.) How is dissuading children from believing that religion is true any different from dissuading them from believing in the efficacy of magic spells?

Dawkin's isn't kidnapping children and forcing them to read his book. Nor is he forcing them to go to some atheist camp once a week to read his books.

Surely, there is a difference between passively encouraging children to be naturalists and actively coercing them to believe in propositions in the absence of any evidence.

Militant atheism is every bit as obnoxious and injurious to child's mind than any one of the religions he claims do the same thing.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/17/2011 3:29:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:05:55 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/16/2011 3:53:53 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I'm an Atheist and I think that's abominable.

Why?

Fairy tales are conditioning for religious dogma? What is this shit? Imagination is the SINGLE MOST important part in childhood development. And the whole idea is completely counter-intuitive. Imagination is the only realm of thinking which is NOT dogmatic, and that's including reasoning. Given the choice between only having imagination and only having reasoning, I would hands-down choose imagination. It's the very thing that makes us human.
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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/17/2011 5:01:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:29:39 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Fairy tales are conditioning for religious dogma? What is this shit? Imagination is the SINGLE MOST important part in childhood development. And the whole idea is completely counter-intuitive. Imagination is the only realm of thinking which is NOT dogmatic, and that's including reasoning. Given the choice between only having imagination and only having reasoning, I would hands-down choose imagination. It's the very thing that makes us human.

This is a tremendous misrepresentation of Dawkins position and the purpose of the book. Had you watched the interview, you would have noted that Dawkins has no problem with fictional tales - he even gives the interviewer some of his favourites. What he has a problem with is fictional tales being taught to children as truth , which I would say is very likely to give children a distorted ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. The book is intended to expand children's imagination within the context of things that are actually true - big bang cosmology, evolution, history of the earth. Those things are all fascinating, weird and mind expanding. The difference between them and the bible is, they are real.