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Yahweh vs the Rest

vbaculum
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9/19/2011 12:39:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It seems like around 0-300 AD, much of the world converged on the notion that Yahweh exists and the pantheons of the world where simply collection of non-existing entities like Mars, Osiris, Thor, et al. Was there some sort of evidence discovered around that time that suggested or proved that Yahweh exists while all the other gods don't.
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izbo10
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9/19/2011 12:54:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 12:39:52 PM, vbaculum wrote:
It seems like around 0-300 AD, much of the world converged on the notion that Yahweh exists and the pantheons of the world where simply collection of non-existing entities like Mars, Osiris, Thor, et al. Was there some sort of evidence discovered around that time that suggested or proved that Yahweh exists while all the other gods don't.

Not really had more to do with geographical conquests and power in the area. No, such evidence exists, you may be interested in reading "The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright or "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, both books detail the changes historically and politically and in the zeitgeist that effected beliefs in gods throughout the years.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/19/2011 1:04:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I personally believe that Christianity simply 'sounded' better.

The Paganism of the age was so hollow, a vast panopoly of Gods each one as impotent as the next with a state that simply used religion for it's own benefits.

Christianity came along, it sounded better, it had morals, it attempted to explain the world, it actually promised a decent after life.

Plus everything went to crap.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Gileandos
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9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.
Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Gileandos
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9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?


Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

Are you refering to your preference or the world rulers that chose science to be their god like Stalin, Mao and Hilter?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/19/2011 8:50:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.

After religiously studying multiple belief sets I have found that Christianity is not only better, but factual.
That is not to state that buddism does not have demonic power or power in general but that Christianity has proven to hold more power in a practical and realistic sense.
A Christian holds more power in his pinky than budha does in his wholistic aura.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/19/2011 9:42:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.

I'd attempt to discuss the matter with you if I thought you were capable.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/19/2011 9:44:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:42:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.

I'd attempt to discuss the matter with you if I thought you were capable.

lol.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?



Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.


Are you refering to your preference or the world rulers that chose science to be their god like Stalin, Mao and Hilter?

WOOP WOOP WOOP... strawman incoming!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/19/2011 9:46:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Gilando, could you explain how Christianity is far more sound than pagan religions and how a Christian contains more power in his pinky than even a budda and his holy aura?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Gileandos
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9/19/2011 9:59:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?

You are unaware of the practiced differences in ideology of different world leaders?
- Hitlers actions were based on a naturalistic superiority belief.
- Stalin persecuted religions due to a selfish ideology.
compare against
- George Washington who's Christian ideology pushed liberties and basic human rights over the press of tyranny.
- Emporer Julian admired the moral and love that Christians displayed and tried to change Pagan religions to have this same viewpoint because to that point they had not had it.

I encourage researching the different ideologies through primary source documentation rather than historical interpretations.




Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.

Google will explain what he means? Wow it has gotten pretty good!


Are you refering to your preference or the world rulers that chose science to be their god like Stalin, Mao and Hilter?

WOOP WOOP WOOP... strawman incoming!

What strawman?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/19/2011 10:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:46:47 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Gilando, could you explain how Christianity is far more sound than pagan religions and how a Christian contains more power in his pinky than even a budda and his holy aura?

Sorry correction not "a" buddha but buddha himself.

What would you like explained?
The soundness of Christianity vs. pagan religions?
The veracity of Christianity bears out in encountering Angles and Jesus who have more power than the gods/demons of pagan religions.

To even call upon Christ gives a Christian power over all enemies of God. It can be easily understood when you spend time in a church and start to encounter demons and angels.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/19/2011 10:10:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:06:33 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:46:47 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Gilando, could you explain how Christianity is far more sound than pagan religions and how a Christian contains more power in his pinky than even a budda and his holy aura?

Sorry correction not "a" buddha but buddha himself.

What would you like explained?
The soundness of Christianity vs. pagan religions?
The veracity of Christianity bears out in encountering Angles and Jesus who have more power than the gods/demons of pagan religions.

To even call upon Christ gives a Christian power over all enemies of God. It can be easily understood when you spend time in a church and start to encounter demons and angels.

yes, i would like that explained....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/19/2011 10:18:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:59:59 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?

You are unaware of the practiced differences in ideology of different world leaders?
- Hitlers actions were based on a naturalistic superiority belief.

And devout Christianity.

- Stalin persecuted religions due to a selfish ideology.

So how does he compare against say Pope Urban II

compare against
- George Washington who's Christian ideology pushed liberties and basic human rights over the press of tyranny.

Compare against the Pagan Dictator of ancient Rome Titus Lartius who voluntary renounced absolute power.

- Emporer Julian admired the moral and love that Christians displayed and tried to change Pagan religions to have this same viewpoint because to that point they had not had it.

Really? Source please.


I encourage researching the different ideologies through primary source documentation rather than historical interpretations.

Do you now, and ignoring all examples of Christian atrocitty as well I wager.





Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.

Google will explain what he means? Wow it has gotten pretty good!

Whose he?
No google will tell you what superceded means.



Are you refering to your preference or the world rulers that chose science to be their god like Stalin, Mao and Hilter?

WOOP WOOP WOOP... strawman incoming!

What strawman?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/20/2011 2:56:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If I was going to put my faith on a God or Gods from a certain religion actually having existed in physical form on earth... I would go with the ancient Sumerian religion and their "Gods" having actually been real extraterrestrial humanoids.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/20/2011 2:59:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 2:56:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
If I was going to put my faith on a God or Gods from a certain religion actually having existed in physical form on earth... I would go with the ancient Sumerian religion and their "Gods" having actually been real extraterrestrial humanoids.

Prove it.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/20/2011 3:00:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:50:16 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.

After religiously studying multiple belief sets I have found that Christianity is not only better, but factual.
That is not to state that buddism does not have demonic power or power in general but that Christianity has proven to hold more power in a practical and realistic sense.
A Christian holds more power in his pinky than budha does in his wholistic aura.

Hahaha.... How brainwashed you are.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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9/20/2011 3:05:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:59:59 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?

You are unaware of the practiced differences in ideology of different world leaders?
- Hitlers actions were based on a naturalistic superiority belief.
- Stalin persecuted religions due to a selfish ideology.
compare against
- George Washington who's Christian ideology pushed liberties and basic human rights over the press of tyranny.
- Emporer Julian admired the moral and love that Christians displayed and tried to change Pagan religions to have this same viewpoint because to that point they had not had it.

I encourage researching the different ideologies through primary source documentation rather than historical interpretations.




Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.

Google will explain what he means? Wow it has gotten pretty good!


Are you refering to your preference or the world rulers that chose science to be their god like Stalin, Mao and Hilter?

WOOP WOOP WOOP... strawman incoming!

What strawman?

Are you forgetting all the Christian leaders who killed millions of people in the name of their God over the last 2000 years or more? Your view is completely biased and not factual at all.

Further, Hitler was an Occultist, not a naturalist. His beliefs were based on ancient and modern texts from all around the globe. You obviously do not know much about Hitler or anything else you have said in this thread for that matter.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/20/2011 3:16:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:50:16 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.

After religiously studying multiple belief sets I have found that Christianity is not only better, but factual.
That is not to state that buddism does not have demonic power or power in general but that Christianity has proven to hold more power in a practical and realistic sense.
A Christian holds more power in his pinky than budha does in his wholistic aura.

Doubtful.

"That Blessed One [Buddha] enjoys the various kinds of supernormal power: having been one, he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one; he appears and vanishes; he goes unhindered through a wall, through an enclosure, through a mountain, as though through space; he dives in and out of the earth as though it were water; he walks on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, he travels in space like a bird; with his hand he touches and strokes the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; he wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma- world."
[Mahasihanada Sutta]

"Well, friend, I do not see anyone in the world of Devas, Maras, Brahmas, or among the generation of recluses, brahmanas, deities, and humans, who could either confound my mind or cleave my heart, or take me by the feet and fling me over to the further shore of the ocean; nevertheless, friend, ask what you will."
-- the Buddha [Alavaka Sutta]
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/20/2011 11:30:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:10:07 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/19/2011 10:06:33 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:46:47 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
Gilando, could you explain how Christianity is far more sound than pagan religions and how a Christian contains more power in his pinky than even a budda and his holy aura?

Sorry correction not "a" buddha but buddha himself.

What would you like explained?
The soundness of Christianity vs. pagan religions?
The veracity of Christianity bears out in encountering Angles and Jesus who have more power than the gods/demons of pagan religions.

To even call upon Christ gives a Christian power over all enemies of God. It can be easily understood when you spend time in a church and start to encounter demons and angels.

yes, i would like that explained....

Attend New York Times Square Church or one if its plants in your local area. They will gladly explain to you all that I have stated. They will even show you---
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/20/2011 11:49:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:18:13 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:59:59 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?

You are unaware of the practiced differences in ideology of different world leaders?
- Hitlers actions were based on a naturalistic superiority belief.

And devout Christianity.

As I said you would have to read primary source documention. Simply Google Hitlers own writings denouncing Christianity. If you are not convinced we can discuss further why you are unconvinced.

- Stalin persecuted religions due to a selfish ideology.

So how does he compare against say Pope Urban II

Christian Ideology is not selfish. It is selfless. It is why criminals take on the title of "Christian". If you are doing something underhanded it is best to make yourself appear to be "above reproach".
- Drug lords in Harlam give out Thanksgiving turkeys and wear crosses.
- Pedophiles become priests to get easy access to children and appear to be upstanding citizens in the community.

Jesus states "you will know them by their fruit".


compare against
- George Washington who's Christian ideology pushed liberties and basic human rights over the press of tyranny.

Compare against the Pagan Dictator of ancient Rome Titus Lartius who voluntary renounced absolute power.

To be Pagan does not mean that a person would need to deny the God given moral conscience.
However, this person could simply have been afraid for his life.


- Emporer Julian admired the moral and love that Christians displayed and tried to change Pagan religions to have this same viewpoint because to that point they had not had it.

Really? Source please.
http://www.newadvent.org...
" and urged pagans to imitate such Christian virtues as charity and mercy. "
For a quick one, I am sure you can look up Julian quotes about how he scolded pagan priests and sects for not looking after even their own poor. It "allowed" the Christians to evangelize the poor.



I encourage researching the different ideologies through primary source documentation rather than historical interpretations.

Do you now, and ignoring all examples of Christian atrocitty as well I wager.

There are few atrocities that I could place on Christian shoulders. Most of the things atheists bring up I would condone and even promote for them to occur again.






Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.

Google will explain what he means? Wow it has gotten pretty good!

Whose he?
No google will tell you what superceded means.

You misunderstood. What was superceded and how, not the definition.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/20/2011 11:52:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 3:00:53 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:50:16 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 2:48:28 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Lets not forget that Paganism was not the only other non-Abrahamic religion. There was Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient mystery religion, etc.

All of these have better doctrines than Christianity and Paganism. Idk where the ideas that Christianity "sounds better" and "not hollow" came from.

After religiously studying multiple belief sets I have found that Christianity is not only better, but factual.
That is not to state that buddism does not have demonic power or power in general but that Christianity has proven to hold more power in a practical and realistic sense.
A Christian holds more power in his pinky than budha does in his wholistic aura.

Hahaha.... How brainwashed you are.

Ridicule seems to be the only weapon.

If you legitimately believe your statement:
How about some evidence of the brainwashing? Who made me experience Christianity and the reality of the information it contains? How did Christians hijack logic and reason and manage to find the truth in all of that?
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/21/2011 10:39:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 11:49:04 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 10:18:13 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:59:59 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?

You are unaware of the practiced differences in ideology of different world leaders?
- Hitlers actions were based on a naturalistic superiority belief.

And devout Christianity.

As I said you would have to read primary source documention. Simply Google Hitlers own writings denouncing Christianity. If you are not convinced we can discuss further why you are unconvinced.

What about his writings praising Jesus?

- Stalin persecuted religions due to a selfish ideology.

So how does he compare against say Pope Urban II

Christian Ideology is not selfish. It is selfless. It is why criminals take on the title of "Christian". If you are doing something underhanded it is best to make yourself appear to be "above reproach".
- Drug lords in Harlam give out Thanksgiving turkeys and wear crosses.
- Pedophiles become priests to get easy access to children and appear to be upstanding citizens in the community.

Jesus states "you will know them by their fruit".


Again what about Pope Urban II.


compare against
- George Washington who's Christian ideology pushed liberties and basic human rights over the press of tyranny.

Compare against the Pagan Dictator of ancient Rome Titus Lartius who voluntary renounced absolute power.

To be Pagan does not mean that a person would need to deny the God given moral conscience.
However, this person could simply have been afraid for his life.

No he wasn't. He was granted absolute power for a term of six months, he exercised absolute power without tyranny, at the end of which he left office and went back to his plough.

- Emporer Julian admired the moral and love that Christians displayed and tried to change Pagan religions to have this same viewpoint because to that point they had not had it.

Really? Source please.
http://www.newadvent.org...
" and urged pagans to imitate such Christian virtues as charity and mercy. "
For a quick one, I am sure you can look up Julian quotes about how he scolded pagan priests and sects for not looking after even their own poor. It "allowed" the Christians to evangelize the poor.

I see so he is not actually espousing love and morality just going with what is politically expedient?

I encourage researching the different ideologies through primary source documentation rather than historical interpretations.

Do you now, and ignoring all examples of Christian atrocitty as well I wager.

There are few atrocities that I could place on Christian shoulders. Most of the things atheists bring up I would condone and even promote for them to occur again.

Well at least you are honest about it then.

Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.

Google will explain what he means? Wow it has gotten pretty good!

Whose he?
No google will tell you what superceded means.

You misunderstood. What was superceded and how, not the definition.

Healings and exorcism... the latter more partially than the former.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
izbo10
Posts: 2,995
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9/21/2011 12:16:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 11:49:04 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 10:18:13 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:59:59 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:45:45 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 8:43:54 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:59:47 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/19/2011 1:53:36 PM, Gileandos wrote:
All of the pagan gods did and do exist. Christians reclassified them as demons.

If that were true shouldn't we see some sort of moral or spiritual difference between Pagan rulers and Christian ones?

After countless hours of study, I see quite a few moral and spiritual differences between rulers of all belief sets. What are you refering to?

What are these differences?

You are unaware of the practiced differences in ideology of different world leaders?
- Hitlers actions were based on a naturalistic superiority belief.

And devout Christianity.

As I said you would have to read primary source documention. Simply Google Hitlers own writings denouncing Christianity. If you are not convinced we can discuss further why you are unconvinced.

- Stalin persecuted religions due to a selfish ideology.

So how does he compare against say Pope Urban II

Christian Ideology is not selfish. It is selfless. It is why criminals take on the title of "Christian". If you are doing something underhanded it is best to make yourself appear to be "above reproach".
- Drug lords in Harlam give out Thanksgiving turkeys and wear crosses.
- Pedophiles become priests to get easy access to children and appear to be upstanding citizens in the community.

Jesus states "you will know them by their fruit".


compare against
- George Washington who's Christian ideology pushed liberties and basic human rights over the press of tyranny.

Compare against the Pagan Dictator of ancient Rome Titus Lartius who voluntary renounced absolute power.

To be Pagan does not mean that a person would need to deny the God given moral conscience.
However, this person could simply have been afraid for his life.


- Emporer Julian admired the moral and love that Christians displayed and tried to change Pagan religions to have this same viewpoint because to that point they had not had it.

Really? Source please.
http://www.newadvent.org...
" and urged pagans to imitate such Christian virtues as charity and mercy. "
For a quick one, I am sure you can look up Julian quotes about how he scolded pagan priests and sects for not looking after even their own poor. It "allowed" the Christians to evangelize the poor.



I encourage researching the different ideologies through primary source documentation rather than historical interpretations.

Do you now, and ignoring all examples of Christian atrocitty as well I wager.

There are few atrocities that I could place on Christian shoulders. Most of the things atheists bring up I would condone and even promote for them to occur again.






Christians came on the scene with a moral framework backed up with healings and the ability to command and cast out those demons.

Yahweh was proven greater through miracles over the pagan gods.

Yet in the modern age both things have generally been superceded by science.

When did this happen? I do not know what you mean by superceded.

You could google it.

Google will explain what he means? Wow it has gotten pretty good!

Whose he?
No google will tell you what superceded means.

You misunderstood. What was superceded and how, not the definition.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Gileandos
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9/21/2011 3:30:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/21/2011 12:16:25 PM, izbo10 wrote:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

This is merely a distinction of convenience.
As stated already you can read his private writings and come to grips with the fact Hitler never claimed to be a Christian outside of his political office. It was merely an expedient facade.

If I recall history correctly I believe Hitler lied to almost everyone publicly and then invaded too!
I believe you should continue to trust his speeches!

It proves that rulers that claim to be Christian for political power then act in all atrocities prove they are completely athiestic.

Here are some quotes from his private works. (very enlightening to read the full works. They are quite disturbing in their athiesm)

Source (Hitlers Table Talk 1953)

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

Needless to say if you have any inclining to use google you could source these quotes and book easy enough.
His personal writings have hundreds more details toward his hatred of Jews, Christians, mentally retarded people and his positive claims for naturalism.

- The fact that he claims naturalism, he proliferates anti-Christian dogma and rules, he lies to everyone at all times, murdered with reckless abandon against Christian espoused values.... should we really include him amongst those that claim to be "the faithful"?
Gileandos
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9/21/2011 3:48:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/21/2011 10:39:25 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What about his writings praising Jesus?

See above in the Izbo reply to the clear status of Hitler's ideology.

Again what about Pope Urban II.

This appeared to be addressed clearly. Please reread and if you do not in fact understand that, liars, criminals, and deviants beset all organizations then what can I do to prove that to you?

We do not say liberty is ineffective an ideology because people exploit other people. We do not state democracy is to blame because there are criminals that exist within its framework.

I do not believe any idealogy is defined by the "bad" people that infiltrate it and corrupt it.

Perhaps I am mistaken. Do you believe that ideologies should be defined by criminals that exploit them?


No he wasn't. He was granted absolute power for a term of six months, he exercised absolute power without tyranny, at the end of which he left office and went back to his plough.

Again here the pagan ideology should not be defined by the "one-off" examples you can find that someone did something that merits reward. The pagan values given by Zeus, which were lead by the example of abuse of power, oppression and sexual exploitation of women etc... should be redefined because one pagan does not abuse his absolute power?

How do you justify clouding your entire view of history with a "one-off" person stepping outside of his pagan values? How does this allow you to make Pagan values as "good" in your sight?

You will have to help me understand.

I see so he is not actually espousing love and morality just going with what is politically expedient?

He personally valued those things but emporer Julian was unable to convince his Pagan priests to value those things. There was no moral framework within any of the Pagan cults he could find to draw upon.

His writings scold the priests for their neglect of the poor. It is the Christians "agape", which means love, that he recognized was converting millions of people a year. The Pagan cults offered no such compassion for the downtrodden.

Well at least you are honest about it then.

Why would I not be?

Healings and exorcism... the latter more partially than the former.

Ah how has science defeated Healings and excorcims? I have peronally delivered a young man from demon affliction. I have also seen prayer heal people miraculously. There are many documented cases of "impossible" healings that have occured.

There may be no device that we can use to get a "reading" of a demon like a star trek tricorder but that does not mean you cannot go meet one. I encourage you to spend some time in your local inner city.

Avoid being shot, mugged or raped but go and "live" with the schizophrenics and come to your own determination. Watch as prayer delivers and changes them.

Again I have personally excorcised a demon afflicted person. I see no reason to believe your claim that science has eliminated such things.
izbo10
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9/21/2011 5:31:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/21/2011 3:48:07 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/21/2011 10:39:25 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What about his writings praising Jesus?

See above in the Izbo reply to the clear status of Hitler's ideology.

Again what about Pope Urban II.

This appeared to be addressed clearly. Please reread and if you do not in fact understand that, liars, criminals, and deviants beset all organizations then what can I do to prove that to you?

We do not say liberty is ineffective an ideology because people exploit other people. We do not state democracy is to blame because there are criminals that exist within its framework.

I do not believe any idealogy is defined by the "bad" people that infiltrate it and corrupt it.

Perhaps I am mistaken. Do you believe that ideologies should be defined by criminals that exploit them?


No he wasn't. He was granted absolute power for a term of six months, he exercised absolute power without tyranny, at the end of which he left office and went back to his plough.

Again here the pagan ideology should not be defined by the "one-off" examples you can find that someone did something that merits reward. The pagan values given by Zeus, which were lead by the example of abuse of power, oppression and sexual exploitation of women etc... should be redefined because one pagan does not abuse his absolute power?

How do you justify clouding your entire view of history with a "one-off" person stepping outside of his pagan values? How does this allow you to make Pagan values as "good" in your sight?

You will have to help me understand.



I see so he is not actually espousing love and morality just going with what is politically expedient?

He personally valued those things but emporer Julian was unable to convince his Pagan priests to value those things. There was no moral framework within any of the Pagan cults he could find to draw upon.

His writings scold the priests for their neglect of the poor. It is the Christians "agape", which means love, that he recognized was converting millions of people a year. The Pagan cults offered no such compassion for the downtrodden.

Well at least you are honest about it then.

Why would I not be?

Healings and exorcism... the latter more partially than the former.

Ah how has science defeated Healings and excorcims? I have peronally delivered a young man from demon affliction. I have also seen prayer heal people miraculously. There are many documented cases of "impossible" healings that have occured.

There may be no device that we can use to get a "reading" of a demon like a star trek tricorder but that does not mean you cannot go meet one. I encourage you to spend some time in your local inner city.

Avoid being shot, mugged or raped but go and "live" with the schizophrenics and come to your own determination. Watch as prayer delivers and changes them.

Again I have personally excorcised a demon afflicted person. I see no reason to believe your claim that science has eliminated such things.

is it really more disconcerting that hitler may not have been christian, or that it was through the use of christianity that he got a nation to be oblivious to what he was doing?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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9/21/2011 8:05:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/21/2011 5:31:50 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/21/2011 3:48:07 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/21/2011 10:39:25 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
What about his writings praising Jesus?

See above in the Izbo reply to the clear status of Hitler's ideology.

Again what about Pope Urban II.

This appeared to be addressed clearly. Please reread and if you do not in fact understand that, liars, criminals, and deviants beset all organizations then what can I do to prove that to you?

We do not say liberty is ineffective an ideology because people exploit other people. We do not state democracy is to blame because there are criminals that exist within its framework.

I do not believe any idealogy is defined by the "bad" people that infiltrate it and corrupt it.

Perhaps I am mistaken. Do you believe that ideologies should be defined by criminals that exploit them?


No he wasn't. He was granted absolute power for a term of six months, he exercised absolute power without tyranny, at the end of which he left office and went back to his plough.

Again here the pagan ideology should not be defined by the "one-off" examples you can find that someone did something that merits reward. The pagan values given by Zeus, which were lead by the example of abuse of power, oppression and sexual exploitation of women etc... should be redefined because one pagan does not abuse his absolute power?

How do you justify clouding your entire view of history with a "one-off" person stepping outside of his pagan values? How does this allow you to make Pagan values as "good" in your sight?

You will have to help me understand.



I see so he is not actually espousing love and morality just going with what is politically expedient?

He personally valued those things but emporer Julian was unable to convince his Pagan priests to value those things. There was no moral framework within any of the Pagan cults he could find to draw upon.

His writings scold the priests for their neglect of the poor. It is the Christians "agape", which means love, that he recognized was converting millions of people a year. The Pagan cults offered no such compassion for the downtrodden.

Well at least you are honest about it then.

Why would I not be?

Healings and exorcism... the latter more partially than the former.

Ah how has science defeated Healings and excorcims? I have peronally delivered a young man from demon affliction. I have also seen prayer heal people miraculously. There are many documented cases of "impossible" healings that have occured.

There may be no device that we can use to get a "reading" of a demon like a star trek tricorder but that does not mean you cannot go meet one. I encourage you to spend some time in your local inner city.

Avoid being shot, mugged or raped but go and "live" with the schizophrenics and come to your own determination. Watch as prayer delivers and changes them.

Again I have personally excorcised a demon afflicted person. I see no reason to believe your claim that science has eliminated such things.

is it really more disconcerting that hitler may not have been christian, or that it was through the use of christianity that he got a nation to be oblivious to what he was doing?

He used such language to pacify his enemies into not acting. You will have to study history to realize that Christians worked within Germany to stop the tyranny through saving the Jews and even assasination attempts upon Hitler.