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Did you choose your God or inherit him?

GreatestIam
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9/19/2011 8:02:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Did you choose your God or inherit him?

1 Thess4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Statistics on religious knowledge are dismal for theists when compared with non theists. This indicates that their own religion is not important to theists and they only follow their God out of tradition and do not feel a need to actually know the theology behind their God. So much for a personal God that theists speak of.

This link shows how most Gods are blindly inherited.

Religion is primarily an external conscience for those who don't trust their own judgment. They say they do not judge God but only follow him as an external conscience and support any atrocities he perpetrates. These non judging people have judged their God to be good. They do not recognize their own contradiction.

Should theists not be comparing all religions to seek the best external conscience they can find?
Unless of course they have all found a better external conscience in secular government.
If so, why have a religion or tradition to hang on to?

Their religions have thus become without value as theist have already given Caesar everything and have left nothing for God except perhaps, lip service.

You and I wake up and follow natural law. We then proceed to follow secular law till we go to sleep. What laws of God do theists even consider at all during the day?

None that I can see.

Can theists, as users of God or the word as an external conscience, be actually called Christians when the laws they live by are pure secular in nature?

Should Christians call themselves Secularist, as that is the law they live by and not the laws of bible God?

Theists then seem to be hypocrites and this is good. Let's thank the stars that theists are not foolish enough to follow their God and his laws. We could not afford to jail that many fools.

I submit that if you follow a religion that you did not actively choose, you are likely not a true believer in any sense of the word.
As others see this hypocrisy, they learn what it is like to be as you are and you are actively helping to kill your own religion.

Thanks for helping those against your own to reduce your numbers.
Like Noah and the God you follow, if you belong to one of the myriad Abrahamic sects, you are a traitor to your own kind by your poor example.

Regards
DL
sadolite
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9/19/2011 8:47:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Chose my god. Took me 35 years to see how flawed "I" was. A humbling moment.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

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GreatestIam
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9/19/2011 9:11:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:29:41 PM, seraine wrote:
Inherited. It took me 12 years to see how flawed that belief was.

And did you chose another God or none?
Do you have a sense of spirituality, as some call it, or did you go to full atheism?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/19/2011 9:13:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:47:24 PM, sadolite wrote:
Chose my god. Took me 35 years to see how flawed "I" was. A humbling moment.

How many Gods did you investigate or chose from and which did you choose and why?
is it the God of your parents?

Regards
DL
Gileandos
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9/19/2011 9:23:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mine was chosen.
It seems pretty simple to me.
The countless billions of people encountering spiritual beings, gods and even claims of meeting the Divine Himself is a clear indication of something more---

Just looking at the average pastor verses the average imam etc--- lets you see the intellectual level of the Christians would be a good place to start. The Christian scholars are just awe inspiring.

Then seeing the power the Christians have over the supernatural sets them again far apart.

To put icing on the cake the Christian God's view of wholesomeness left me breathless. I still shutter with goosebumps in anticipation at the idea of encountering the author of wholesomeness.

Christianity was a sure thing.
Gileandos
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9/19/2011 10:08:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:57:30 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I chose to use logic and evidence, and discontinued my belief in a god when I was 12.

I chose to use logic and evidence, then met Jesus. I then found a manifested belief in God that was quite certain with clear evidence that was logically undeniable.

Funny what did you do differently?
gavin.ogden
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9/19/2011 10:11:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:08:05 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:57:30 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I chose to use logic and evidence, and discontinued my belief in a god when I was 12.

I chose to use logic and evidence, then met Jesus. I then found a manifested belief in God that was quite certain with clear evidence that was logically undeniable.

Funny what did you do differently?

I'm not delusional.
thett3
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9/19/2011 10:15:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In the middle. I was raised somewhat Christian, went to Church on Easter and Christmas ect. but not really. I have a much deeper belief in God now than I ever did at a younger age.
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socialpinko
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9/19/2011 10:21:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Raised crazy Baptist, started studying other religions few years ago(mostly Buddhism and the other sects of Christianity). I eventually decided evidence was currently insufficient for beliefs in God and became an agnostic atheist. The more I study though the more less likely it seems that there exists anything immaterial or supernatural and so one could call me a strong atheist at the point. So it was inherited but later I chose none.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/19/2011 10:26:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I realised I was an agnostic at the age of 9, tried to convince myself I was a believer on and off. Pretty much an agnostic for nearly twenty years after before I realised it was time to grow up.
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DATCMOTO
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9/20/2011 5:01:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:02:45 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Did you choose your God or inherit him?

1 Thess4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Statistics on religious knowledge are dismal for theists when compared with non theists. This indicates that their own religion is not important to theists and they only follow their God out of tradition and do not feel a need to actually know the theology behind their God. So much for a personal God that theists speak of.

This link shows how most Gods are blindly inherited.



Religion is primarily an external conscience for those who don't trust their own judgment. They say they do not judge God but only follow him as an external conscience and support any atrocities he perpetrates. These non judging people have judged their God to be good. They do not recognize their own contradiction.

Should theists not be comparing all religions to seek the best external conscience they can find?
Unless of course they have all found a better external conscience in secular government.
If so, why have a religion or tradition to hang on to?

Their religions have thus become without value as theist have already given Caesar everything and have left nothing for God except perhaps, lip service.

You and I wake up and follow natural law. We then proceed to follow secular law till we go to sleep. What laws of God do theists even consider at all during the day?

None that I can see.

Can theists, as users of God or the word as an external conscience, be actually called Christians when the laws they live by are pure secular in nature?

Should Christians call themselves Secularist, as that is the law they live by and not the laws of bible God?

Theists then seem to be hypocrites and this is good. Let's thank the stars that theists are not foolish enough to follow their God and his laws. We could not afford to jail that many fools.

I submit that if you follow a religion that you did not actively choose, you are likely not a true believer in any sense of the word.
As others see this hypocrisy, they learn what it is like to be as you are and you are actively helping to kill your own religion.

Thanks for helping those against your own to reduce your numbers.
Like Noah and the God you follow, if you belong to one of the myriad Abrahamic sects, you are a traitor to your own kind by your poor example.

Regards
DL

Jesus chose me because God the Father gave me to Him:

John 6:65
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."


God gives each of us a conscience to be getting along with; He is continually searching the earth for people who are putting that conscience into action..

He then helps that person until they are ready to receive revelation about His Son.

Once again your theology is stupefyingly shallow and your understanding lamentably limited.

This is hardly surprising if you go to people like Dawkins for your daily bread.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Fatihah
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9/20/2011 6:34:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 8:02:45 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Did you choose your God or inherit him?

1 Thess4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Statistics on religious knowledge are dismal for theists when compared with non theists. This indicates that their own religion is not important to theists and they only follow their God out of tradition and do not feel a need to actually know the theology behind their God. So much for a personal God that theists speak of.

This link shows how most Gods are blindly inherited.



Religion is primarily an external conscience for those who don't trust their own judgment. They say they do not judge God but only follow him as an external conscience and support any atrocities he perpetrates. These non judging people have judged their God to be good. They do not recognize their own contradiction.

Should theists not be comparing all religions to seek the best external conscience they can find?
Unless of course they have all found a better external conscience in secular government.
If so, why have a religion or tradition to hang on to?

Their religions have thus become without value as theist have already given Caesar everything and have left nothing for God except perhaps, lip service.

You and I wake up and follow natural law. We then proceed to follow secular law till we go to sleep. What laws of God do theists even consider at all during the day?

None that I can see.

Can theists, as users of God or the word as an external conscience, be actually called Christians when the laws they live by are pure secular in nature?

Should Christians call themselves Secularist, as that is the law they live by and not the laws of bible God?

Theists then seem to be hypocrites and this is good. Let's thank the stars that theists are not foolish enough to follow their God and his laws. We could not afford to jail that many fools.

I submit that if you follow a religion that you did not actively choose, you are likely not a true believer in any sense of the word.
As others see this hypocrisy, they learn what it is like to be as you are and you are actively helping to kill your own religion.

Thanks for helping those against your own to reduce your numbers.
Like Noah and the God you follow, if you belong to one of the myriad Abrahamic sects, you are a traitor to your own kind by your poor example.

Regards
DL

Response: The teachings of islam demonstrate that all of humanity are born into islam, for islam means "the submission to the Will of Allah". When a child is born, everything that they say and do is in accordance to the nature in which Allah has created them, thus every child is born submitting their will to Allah. In this natural state of submission, Allah has created every child with the natural mindstate to grow and desire to follow the teachings of islam. However, some families and environments persuade and influence people to take a different path, thus leading a person astray from following their natural religion in which all people are wired to follow since birth, which is islam. So in answering the question, everyone is born a muslim, thus islam is naturally inherited.
GreatestIam
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9/20/2011 6:52:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 9:23:06 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mine was chosen.
It seems pretty simple to me.
The countless billions of people encountering spiritual beings, gods and even claims of meeting the Divine Himself is a clear indication of something more---

Just looking at the average pastor verses the average imam etc--- lets you see the intellectual level of the Christians would be a good place to start. The Christian scholars are just awe inspiring.

Then seeing the power the Christians have over the supernatural sets them again far apart.

To put icing on the cake the Christian God's view of wholesomeness left me breathless. I still shutter with goosebumps in anticipation at the idea of encountering the author of wholesomeness.

Christianity was a sure thing.

Sure. Wholesomeness.

Unless your a woman who wants equality, a Gay, or a man or woman with a normal labedo.

Your God has been described as
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Do you agree and why would you choose him over a less genocidal God?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/20/2011 6:57:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:15:56 PM, thett3 wrote:
In the middle. I was raised somewhat Christian, went to Church on Easter and Christmas ect. but not really. I have a much deeper belief in God now than I ever did at a younger age.

Based on what if not faith?
What facts drive your belief and why did you choose to follow a genocidal God?
The same God who set the conditions and ransom to have his son murdered when there were other options.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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9/20/2011 7:06:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 6:34:16 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: The teachings of islam demonstrate that all of humanity are born into islam, for islam means "the submission to the Will of Allah". When a child is born, everything that they say and do is in accordance to the nature in which Allah has created them, thus every child is born submitting their will to Allah. In this natural state of submission, Allah has created every child with the natural mindstate to grow and desire to follow the teachings of islam. However, some families and environments persuade and influence people to take a different path, thus leading a person astray from following their natural religion in which all people are wired to follow since birth, which is islam. So in answering the question, everyone is born a muslim, thus islam is naturally inherited.

The nature Allah gives is not worth much if mere men can just manipulate it at will.

If all are born to submit, how in hell does the first who does not ever arise as none already there are supposed to have turned.
Your statement is not logical.
If a persons nature can somehow turn, then that ability to turn must have been built in by Allah.
Allah created Gays and sinners to do and be exactly what they are then. Right?

Regards
DL
Fatihah
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9/20/2011 7:16:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 7:06:37 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/20/2011 6:34:16 AM, Fatihah wrote:
Response: The teachings of islam demonstrate that all of humanity are born into islam, for islam means "the submission to the Will of Allah". When a child is born, everything that they say and do is in accordance to the nature in which Allah has created them, thus every child is born submitting their will to Allah. In this natural state of submission, Allah has created every child with the natural mindstate to grow and desire to follow the teachings of islam. However, some families and environments persuade and influence people to take a different path, thus leading a person astray from following their natural religion in which all people are wired to follow since birth, which is islam. So in answering the question, everyone is born a muslim, thus islam is naturally inherited.

The nature Allah gives is not worth much if mere men can just manipulate it at will.

If all are born to submit, how in hell does the first who does not ever arise as none already there are supposed to have turned.
Your statement is not logical.
If a persons nature can somehow turn, then that ability to turn must have been built in by Allah.
Allah created Gays and sinners to do and be exactly what they are then. Right?

Regards
DL

Response: The whole purose of life is to test one's faith. Those who folllow the teachings of islam are rewarded in the Hereafter. So the religion is worth it, if one does not want to be dosciplined in the Hereafter, but rewarded. Thus your response is not logical. You are born to be more naturally inclined to follow the teachings of islam, thus the ability to be influenced to do otherwise is within our nature as well. So as I stated, a person is born in islam until they are persuaded to go astray. That is why prophets are raised to guide humanity back to their true natural religion, which is islam. As for Gays and sinners, they chose to do so by their own desires, not by islam.
izbo10
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9/20/2011 8:34:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:08:05 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:57:30 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I chose to use logic and evidence, and discontinued my belief in a god when I was 12.

I chose to use logic and evidence, then met Jesus. I then found a manifested belief in God that was quite certain with clear evidence that was logically undeniable.

Funny what did you do differently?

and you just so happen to live in the southern united states and found Jesus, wow now that one is a shocker.
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GreatestIam
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9/20/2011 11:03:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 7:16:19 AM, Fatihah wrote:

Response: The whole purose of life is to test one's faith. Those who folllow the teachings of islam are rewarded in the Hereafter.

You know this as a fact, how?

Faith. Right?
Faith in hear say and book say. All hear say. Right?
Or have you had an apotheosis?

Regards
DL
gerrandesquire
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9/20/2011 11:39:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Inherited, but was kind of spiritual throughout my life. Came to this site, saw people believed He actually existed (Or does not actually exist, as in, people argued over his existence), read a few books, remained spiritual.
innomen
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9/20/2011 12:02:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I did inherit a God that was very appropriate for a child, then i realized it wasn't right. Went without for a long time, then came to believe in something that was greater than myself that i call God.
Kinesis
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9/20/2011 12:43:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:11:29 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 9/19/2011 10:08:05 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:57:30 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I chose to use logic and evidence, and discontinued my belief in a god when I was 12.

I chose to use logic and evidence, then met Jesus. I then found a manifested belief in God that was quite certain with clear evidence that was logically undeniable.

Funny what did you do differently?

I'm not delusional.

Burn.
GeoLaureate8
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9/20/2011 1:14:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/19/2011 10:21:27 PM, socialpinko wrote:
Raised crazy Baptist, started studying other religions few years ago(mostly Buddhism and the other sects of Christianity). I eventually decided evidence was currently insufficient for beliefs in God and became an agnostic atheist. The more I study though the more less likely it seems that there exists anything immaterial or supernatural and so one could call me a strong atheist at the point. So it was inherited but later I chose none.

Was it your study of Buddhism that convinced you there is no God? Cause my study of Buddhism is what led me to Atheism. A rather uncommon path to Atheism I'd say.

In response to the OP, my belief in God was inherited, but I was questioning God and the Bible at a young age. I still maintained my belief though until I was 17.
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Kinesis
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9/20/2011 1:20:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I probably inherited my lack of belief. I'd never even really encountered religion until I read most of the New Testament at 15 in the school library (it never even occurred to me that it wasn't a fantasy novel at the time), and shortly after met and became friends with a black African Seventh Day Adventist, who funnily enough introduced me to Japanese anime (I argued with him about religion occasionally, but it was good natured and really for fun). I've never remotely had the desire to take up a religion.
thett3
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9/20/2011 1:30:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 6:57:44 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/19/2011 10:15:56 PM, thett3 wrote:
In the middle. I was raised somewhat Christian, went to Church on Easter and Christmas ect. but not really. I have a much deeper belief in God now than I ever did at a younger age.

Based on what if not faith?
What facts drive your belief and why did you choose to follow a genocidal God?
The same God who set the conditions and ransom to have his son murdered when there were other options.

Regards
DL

Thank's for the reply. While I admit that religion is not my strong point, if we were debating this, my question would be, where do you get the objective standard with which to condemn those things as bad? To me, God best explains both morality and the intricacies of our Universe. But to each their own.
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Gileandos
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9/20/2011 1:42:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 6:52:04 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/19/2011 9:23:06 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Mine was chosen.
It seems pretty simple to me.
The countless billions of people encountering spiritual beings, gods and even claims of meeting the Divine Himself is a clear indication of something more---

Just looking at the average pastor verses the average imam etc--- lets you see the intellectual level of the Christians would be a good place to start. The Christian scholars are just awe inspiring.

Then seeing the power the Christians have over the supernatural sets them again far apart.

To put icing on the cake the Christian God's view of wholesomeness left me breathless. I still shutter with goosebumps in anticipation at the idea of encountering the author of wholesomeness.

Christianity was a sure thing.

Sure. Wholesomeness.

Unless your a woman who wants equality, a Gay, or a man or woman with a normal labedo.

Your God has been described as
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Do you agree and why would you choose him over a less genocidal God?

Regards
DL

Those are just petty words attached to someone Dawkins has never met. I have extreme doubts he has actually read the bible due to several misquotes in some of his "debates".
He just finds a statement that sounds provocative and puts it out there.

I fundamentally agree that if God is in charge of the Universe than he can enforce wholesomeness.

I am an advocate of liberty but wholesomeness overrides. Like I do not have a problem with a Gay person being Gay.
The problem comes into the warranted slippery slope argument.

When perversion enters in and you are traveling a road of perversion it only gets worse. The desires that are fulfilled only get more skewed and potent. I would not expect a 20 year old to understand this as well as a 60 year old.

A pedophile never started as a pedophile etc----

I fully agree that restricting the gateway problems (like dope) even though they are relatively harmless if legalized, they lead to other problems in nearly 80% of the cases.

We can scientifically validate most of the restrictions God puts into place are gateway scenarios that lead to more perverse lifestyles that eventually restrict liberty.

If you disagree tough, grow up and when you are 60 you will more than likely not agree with your current viewpoint.

Every teenager and twenty something seems to think they have it all figured out. They have a limited experience but "all" knowledge.

I find it humorous.

It is why I believe you should be over 40 to even be able to vote in America.

Does this answer your question?
Fatihah
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9/20/2011 1:44:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/20/2011 11:03:35 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 9/20/2011 7:16:19 AM, Fatihah wrote:

Response: The whole purose of life is to test one's faith. Those who folllow the teachings of islam are rewarded in the Hereafter.

You know this as a fact, how?

Faith. Right?
Faith in hear say and book say. All hear say. Right?
Or have you had an apotheosis?



Regards
DL

Response: We know so from the Qur'an and sunnah. This leads to the question as to whether the Qur'an and Sunnah is true. The answer is in the following:

In the Qur'an we read:

"Will they not then meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah they would surely have found therein much discrepancy" (4:82).

Here we have test that demonstrates that there is no error in the Qur'an, showing the truthful nature of the Qur'an. If a person disagrees, then the individual can take up the challenge to find a discrepancy in the Qur'an and when the person discovers that there is no discrepancy, then the only logical conclusion that can be derived is that whomever the author of the Qur'an is, the individual is a truth teller and righteous because all of the content in the Qur'an is without error, indecency, and immorality. Yet the question remains as to who is the author? The asnswer is in the following:

"And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah if you are truthful'.(surah 2: 23 of the qur'an.)

Here we have a test that proves that it is not humanly possible to produce a chapter like the qur'an and proves so by challenging all of those who doubt so to prove so by trying to produce a chapter like the qur'an. For by trying to produce a chapter like the qur'an, you'll learn first hand that such a thing is humanly impossible to do.

But before the thread is filled with the common response of simply producing something in Arabic or claiming that the challenge is not valid because not being able to produce a play like Shakespeare does not mean that the play is from God so the same analogy applies to the qur'an, let me further elaborate. The qur'an, like any scripture, is inspiration. And like any scripture, it's intent is to inspire people to follow it's teaching. Thus the challenge is to produce something which is as inspirational as the qur'an, for it's the inspiration of the qur'an which is miraculous. And what is that miracle you ask? The miracle is within the following:

"It is impossible for a person/s to use speech or literature that goes against the wants of a mass of people, which is invented by any person or people, to inspire enough followers amongst them to conquer a nation."

This is the miracle of Muhammad. For the challenge proves that it is impossible to use any speech or literature invented by a person/s that goes against the likes of the people, to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. You disagree? Then take the challenge and prove differently. Try using a speech or literature invented by any person/s that goes against the likes of people to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation and see what happens. I'll even simplify the challenge by asking you to just conquer the street you live on and see what happens. You will fail and fail miserably. You won't come close to achieving the challenge. You'll learn first hand that such an act is humanly impossible and that is when you'll learn the miracle of Muhammad. Why? Because Muhammad used the qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So if it is humanly impossible to use speech or literature invented by a person/s, that goes against the likes of masses, to inspire enough followers amongst them to conquer a nation yet Muhammad used the qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation, then what does that mean? That means that the qur'an in which Muhammad used is not the invention of any human but must come from a higher power and authority greater than humans, and that is Allah (swt). You disagree? Take the challenge and prove differently.
Lickdafoot
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9/20/2011 1:50:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
interesting posts everyone! I grew up as a methodist christian, went to church occasionally. At age 8 or 9 I started asking questions that I never got answers to. "who created god" and "how do we know we are all not living in someone's dream" were the two that i have vivid memories asking about, and getting rubbish answers on. When I was 18 or 19 I looked a bit into all the main religions (buddhism and hinduism were two that were most interesting) and came to the conclusion that 1. trying to define something labelled as undefinable was hypocritical. 2. religions that pray to a god are all praying to the same thing albeit differently 3. Organized religions have some good principles veiled in a crust of hate, fearmongering and control. 4. I could never be part of an organized religion.

Now I'm comfortable with the fact that whatever higher power is out there will give me direction upon my seeking it out. And defining that power doesn't make a lick of difference on the value of my life.
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