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The argument from women

izbo10
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9/23/2011 3:43:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Many christians use as a justification for the resurrection that the first witnesses were women. They claim this was not common in that time period and makes no sense. This line of reasoning seems to make sense, until you realize that Paul's churches often had strong female leadership. Paul's writings actually show a strong sense towards women being involved. There are only w passages that are against this, one which appears in 1 Timothy which probably wasn't written by Paul, and one in 1 Cor. which appears to be a later addition. If you take those out of Paul's work women were playing a key role throughout the birth of Orthodox christianity.

To further this problem for this argument, by mid to late 2nd century(160-190) there was a book written called the acts of Thecla, with the protaganist being a strong woman and woman playing almost all the good roles. Thecla was determined to follow Paul and several women helped her through many execution attempts. The objection I see coming here is that, well this is 80 to a 100 years later. Well, many scholars believe this forged work was based off of long held stories from much earlier. What we do know is in early christianity a story, that most christians don't believe, involved a strong woman as lead. These stories are not true based off the woman being a lead. the actual logic just does not follow through. The fact that Thecla was a woman and the lead does not mean that she was actually protected by a lioness and god killed a vat of man eating seals with a lightning bolt. How does the woman discovering the tomb differ?
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It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

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kohai
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9/23/2011 4:16:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Tl;dr and don't care.

To hijack or not to hijack...
1) Whatever has contradictory attributes does not exist.
2) The Biblical God has contradictory attributes.
3) Therefore, the Biblical God does not exist
innomen
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9/23/2011 4:26:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 4:16:03 PM, kohai wrote:
Tl;dr and don't care.

To hijack or not to hijack...

I haven't been paying attention to him much, but jeeze he's like a dog with a bone.
izbo10
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9/23/2011 4:34:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 4:26:51 PM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2011 4:16:03 PM, kohai wrote:
Tl;dr and don't care.

To hijack or not to hijack...

I haven't been paying attention to him much, but jeeze he's like a dog with a bone.

Yeah we wouldn't want to actually discuss intellectual topics on a debate site, that is too much. If we could only find a few more intellectuals for me to converse with this could actually live up to its potential.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
JustCallMeTarzan
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9/23/2011 4:44:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The argument from women is just another form of the Christian fictionalism "the more seemingly incongruous something is, the more likely it is to be true."
izbo10
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9/23/2011 4:51:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 4:44:18 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
The argument from women is just another form of the Christian fictionalism "the more seemingly incongruous something is, the more likely it is to be true."

yes but only when its a conveniently orthodox view, super sized Jesus not so much. (Gospel of Peter)
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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9/23/2011 5:36:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 4:45:40 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
What's the point of the thread?

to demonstrate that the use of women as the witnesses to the resurrection does not prove it actually happened.
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It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/23/2011 5:38:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 5:36:39 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 4:45:40 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
What's the point of the thread?

to demonstrate that the use of women as the witnesses to the resurrection does not prove it actually happened.:

Isn't that obvious enough?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
izbo10
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9/23/2011 5:44:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 5:38:09 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/23/2011 5:36:39 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 4:45:40 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
What's the point of the thread?

to demonstrate that the use of women as the witnesses to the resurrection does not prove it actually happened.:

Isn't that obvious enough?

its a common christian argument, I believe even put forward in the book "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. The argument goes that if the authors were making up the resurrection story they would not have had women be the first to witness it, they would have had men, being that would have added more credibility.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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9/23/2011 5:45:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 5:44:52 PM, Wnope wrote:
Argument from women:

Why are you online, geek?

10 to 1 says you didn't read the post, if you did you did not comprehend it.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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9/23/2011 5:48:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1.6. The Discovery of the Tomb by Women
Craig's sixth argument for the historicity of the empty tomb is that the story has women discovering the empty tomb. He writes, "Given the relatively low status of women in Jewish society and their lack of qualification to serve as legal witnesses," the discovery of the empty tomb by women would have been highly embarrassing to the Christian church.[70] Thus, if the empty tomb story were a legend invented by the church, we would expect the story to have men, not women, discover the tomb. Therefore, the discovery of the empty tomb by women is much more probable given a historical empty tomb than a legendary one.

The discovery of the empty tomb by women is perfectly compatible with reburial by Joseph of Arimathea; moreover, there is nothing about the women's discovery that makes such a reburial unlikely. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Craig's argument from the role of the women in the story, against the hypothesis that the empty tomb is a legend, is overstated. Having women discover the empty tomb may have been somewhat embarrassing to the church, but, if so, that would have been for reasons that had nothing to do with their qualification to serve as legal

________________________________________

[69] Ibid.

[70] Craig 1995a, p. 151

The argument is also put forward by william the scheister craig himself.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
izbo10
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9/23/2011 5:55:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 5:48:41 PM, izbo10 wrote:
1.6. The Discovery of the Tomb by Women
Craig's sixth argument for the historicity of the empty tomb is that the story has women discovering the empty tomb. He writes, "Given the relatively low status of women in Jewish society and their lack of qualification to serve as legal witnesses," the discovery of the empty tomb by women would have been highly embarrassing to the Christian church.[70] Thus, if the empty tomb story were a legend invented by the church, we would expect the story to have men, not women, discover the tomb. Therefore, the discovery of the empty tomb by women is much more probable given a historical empty tomb than a legendary one.

The discovery of the empty tomb by women is perfectly compatible with reburial by Joseph of Arimathea; moreover, there is nothing about the women's discovery that makes such a reburial unlikely. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Craig's argument from the role of the women in the story, against the hypothesis that the empty tomb is a legend, is overstated. Having women discover the empty tomb may have been somewhat embarrassing to the church, but, if so, that would have been for reasons that had nothing to do with their qualification to serve as legal

________________________________________

[69] Ibid.

[70] Craig 1995a, p. 151


The argument is also put forward by william the scheister craig himself.

this is quoted from infidels.org
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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9/23/2011 6:24:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 5:48:41 PM, izbo10 wrote:
1.6. The Discovery of the Tomb by Women
Craig's sixth argument for the historicity of the empty tomb is that the story has women discovering the empty tomb. He writes, "Given the relatively low status of women in Jewish society and their lack of qualification to serve as legal witnesses," the discovery of the empty tomb by women would have been highly embarrassing to the Christian church.[70] Thus, if the empty tomb story were a legend invented by the church, we would expect the story to have men, not women, discover the tomb. Therefore, the discovery of the empty tomb by women is much more probable given a historical empty tomb than a legendary one.

The discovery of the empty tomb by women is perfectly compatible with reburial by Joseph of Arimathea; moreover, there is nothing about the women's discovery that makes such a reburial unlikely. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Craig's argument from the role of the women in the story, against the hypothesis that the empty tomb is a legend, is overstated. Having women discover the empty tomb may have been somewhat embarrassing to the church, but, if so, that would have been for reasons that had nothing to do with their qualification to serve as legal

________________________________________

[69] Ibid.

[70] Craig 1995a, p. 151


The argument is also put forward by william the scheister craig himself.

Look at the argument you attacked. Look at the argument that WLC made. Now look again. One of these things is not like the other.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
izbo10
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9/23/2011 6:27:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:24:27 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/23/2011 5:48:41 PM, izbo10 wrote:
1.6. The Discovery of the Tomb by Women
Craig's sixth argument for the historicity of the empty tomb is that the story has women discovering the empty tomb. He writes, "Given the relatively low status of women in Jewish society and their lack of qualification to serve as legal witnesses," the discovery of the empty tomb by women would have been highly embarrassing to the Christian church.[70] Thus, if the empty tomb story were a legend invented by the church, we would expect the story to have men, not women, discover the tomb. Therefore, the discovery of the empty tomb by women is much more probable given a historical empty tomb than a legendary one.

The discovery of the empty tomb by women is perfectly compatible with reburial by Joseph of Arimathea; moreover, there is nothing about the women's discovery that makes such a reburial unlikely. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Craig's argument from the role of the women in the story, against the hypothesis that the empty tomb is a legend, is overstated. Having women discover the empty tomb may have been somewhat embarrassing to the church, but, if so, that would have been for reasons that had nothing to do with their qualification to serve as legal

________________________________________

[69] Ibid.

[70] Craig 1995a, p. 151


The argument is also put forward by william the scheister craig himself.

Look at the argument you attacked. Look at the argument that WLC made. Now look again. One of these things is not like the other.

Craig's sixth argument for the historicity of the empty tomb is that the story has women discovering the empty tomb. He writes, "Given the relatively low status of women in Jewish society and their lack of qualification to serve as legal witnesses," the discovery of the empty tomb by women would have been highly embarrassing to the Christian church.[70] Thus, if the empty tomb story were a legend invented by the church, we would expect the story to have men, not women, discover the tomb. Therefore, the discovery of the empty tomb by women is much more probable given a historical empty tomb than a legendary one.


attacking that christian women were not that unlikely in reality or story is not attacking that, and you wonder why i think you are a retard.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/23/2011 6:28:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 4:16:03 PM, kohai wrote:
Tl;dr and don't care.

To hijack or not to hijack...

Hmmm, someone did not cite his source. You got that from me :p
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
izbo10
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9/23/2011 6:28:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:24:27 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 9/23/2011 5:48:41 PM, izbo10 wrote:
1.6. The Discovery of the Tomb by Women
Craig's sixth argument for the historicity of the empty tomb is that the story has women discovering the empty tomb. He writes, "Given the relatively low status of women in Jewish society and their lack of qualification to serve as legal witnesses," the discovery of the empty tomb by women would have been highly embarrassing to the Christian church.[70] Thus, if the empty tomb story were a legend invented by the church, we would expect the story to have men, not women, discover the tomb. Therefore, the discovery of the empty tomb by women is much more probable given a historical empty tomb than a legendary one.

The discovery of the empty tomb by women is perfectly compatible with reburial by Joseph of Arimathea; moreover, there is nothing about the women's discovery that makes such a reburial unlikely. Nevertheless, it seems to me that Craig's argument from the role of the women in the story, against the hypothesis that the empty tomb is a legend, is overstated. Having women discover the empty tomb may have been somewhat embarrassing to the church, but, if so, that would have been for reasons that had nothing to do with their qualification to serve as legal

________________________________________

[69] Ibid.

[70] Craig 1995a, p. 151


The argument is also put forward by william the scheister craig himself.

Look at the argument you attacked. Look at the argument that WLC made. Now look again. One of these things is not like the other.

connecting the dots still not your strong suit i see, i have to do all the work for you?
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
000ike
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9/23/2011 6:29:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Izbo will you please shut up?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
popculturepooka
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9/23/2011 6:30:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:27:33 PM, izbo10 wrote:

attacking that christian women were not that unlikely in reality or story is not attacking that, and you wonder why i think you are a retard.

I'm devastated.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
izbo10
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9/23/2011 6:30:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:29:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
Izbo will you please shut up?

says the 15 year old who claimed that he could merely write off the work of a docotrate in nueroscience and ba in philosophy as erroneous. lol.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
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9/23/2011 6:32:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:30:31 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:29:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
Izbo will you please shut up?

says the 15 year old who claimed that he could merely write off the work of a docotrate in nueroscience and ba in philosophy as erroneous. lol.

Ah, the idiocy these days fill the wine glass to its brim..If we converted the level of your stupidity to the number of goblets and pounds of slabbed meat, it would reach even the heavens....like a new pillar....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
000ike
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9/23/2011 6:34:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:30:31 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:29:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
Izbo will you please shut up?

says the 15 year old who claimed that he could merely write off the work of a docotrate in nueroscience and ba in philosophy as erroneous. lol.

So having a doctorate implies infallibility? Get real,...how many Dr. blah's and Professor Who Ha's have spouted errant nonsense in a very articulate way?

. When will you learn to stop acting like an obnoxious troll?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
izbo10
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9/23/2011 6:34:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:32:43 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:30:31 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:29:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
Izbo will you please shut up?

says the 15 year old who claimed that he could merely write off the work of a docotrate in nueroscience and ba in philosophy as erroneous. lol.

Ah, the idiocy these days fill the wine glass to its brim..If we converted the level of your stupidity to the number of goblets and pounds of slabbed meat, it would reach even the heavens....like a new pillar....

another topic well over little boys head, oh well, you would think you are on a debate site you might want to read and learn but no, not you.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
It's amazing to me that you still have yet to grasp the difference between believing something, not believing something, and having no belief at all -JCMT
To respect religion, is to disrespect the Truth!

If this board was a room and you all were the light bulbs, I'm bringing a flashlight.
Man-is-good
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9/23/2011 7:11:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 6:34:47 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:32:43 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:30:31 PM, izbo10 wrote:
At 9/23/2011 6:29:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
Izbo will you please shut up?

says the 15 year old who claimed that he could merely write off the work of a docotrate in nueroscience and ba in philosophy as erroneous. lol.

Ah, the idiocy these days fill the wine glass to its brim..If we converted the level of your stupidity to the number of goblets and pounds of slabbed meat, it would reach even the heavens....like a new pillar....


another topic well over little boys head, oh well, you would think you are on a debate site you might want to read and learn but no, not you.

"3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.

7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;

9 even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. "
[2 Thessalonians 2:3-10]

A perfect description of Izbo...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Ore_Ele
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9/23/2011 7:28:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 3:43:58 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Many christians use as a justification for the resurrection that the first witnesses were women. They claim this was not common in that time period and makes no sense. This line of reasoning seems to make sense, until you realize that Paul's churches often had strong female leadership. Paul's writings actually show a strong sense towards women being involved. There are only w passages that are against this, one which appears in 1 Timothy which probably wasn't written by Paul, and one in 1 Cor. which appears to be a later addition. If you take those out of Paul's work women were playing a key role throughout the birth of Orthodox christianity.

To further this problem for this argument, by mid to late 2nd century(160-190) there was a book written called the acts of Thecla, with the protaganist being a strong woman and woman playing almost all the good roles. Thecla was determined to follow Paul and several women helped her through many execution attempts. The objection I see coming here is that, well this is 80 to a 100 years later. Well, many scholars believe this forged work was based off of long held stories from much earlier. What we do know is in early christianity a story, that most christians don't believe, involved a strong woman as lead. These stories are not true based off the woman being a lead. the actual logic just does not follow through. The fact that Thecla was a woman and the lead does not mean that she was actually protected by a lioness and god killed a vat of man eating seals with a lightning bolt. How does the woman discovering the tomb differ?

I have never heard any christian argue the "argument from women." And religious debates are the most common debates on DDO. I can't help but think that this is one big strawman argument.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Gileandos
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9/23/2011 7:39:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 3:43:58 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Many christians use as a justification for the resurrection that the first witnesses were women. They claim this was not common in that time period and makes no sense. This line of reasoning seems to make sense, until you realize that Paul's churches often had strong female leadership. Paul's writings actually show a strong sense towards women being involved. There are only w passages that are against this, one which appears in 1 Timothy which probably wasn't written by Paul, and one in 1 Cor. which appears to be a later addition. If you take those out of Paul's work women were playing a key role throughout the birth of Orthodox christianity.

To further this problem for this argument, by mid to late 2nd century(160-190) there was a book written called the acts of Thecla, with the protaganist being a strong woman and woman playing almost all the good roles. Thecla was determined to follow Paul and several women helped her through many execution attempts. The objection I see coming here is that, well this is 80 to a 100 years later. Well, many scholars believe this forged work was based off of long held stories from much earlier. What we do know is in early christianity a story, that most christians don't believe, involved a strong woman as lead. These stories are not true based off the woman being a lead. the actual logic just does not follow through. The fact that Thecla was a woman and the lead does not mean that she was actually protected by a lioness and god killed a vat of man eating seals with a lightning bolt. How does the woman discovering the tomb differ?

The statements are:
if you are going to write a story at 33 A.D. and wanted it believed, then you would want men to find the tomb empty.

The reason? No culture at 33 A.D. placed a value on women anywhere near that of a man. Not the Roman culture, Not the Jewish Culture, Not the Greek Culture and certainly not the persian culture...

By 150-200 A.D. it is Christianity alone that permeated the region with an equal status of women among men as peers in Christ.

Do you understand the difference between the timeframes and cultures of the regions that makes this practical thinking a readily applied truth?
JustCallMeTarzan
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9/23/2011 8:15:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 7:28:06 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

I have never heard any christian argue the "argument from women." And religious debates are the most common debates on DDO. I can't help but think that this is one big strawman argument.

No - it's actually been made. It's just not made very often because it's a stupid argument. Another reason besides the ones ---^ is that legally, a woman's word was often worth 1/2 of a man's.
Gileandos
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9/23/2011 9:46:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 8:15:49 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 9/23/2011 7:28:06 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:

I have never heard any christian argue the "argument from women." And religious debates are the most common debates on DDO. I can't help but think that this is one big strawman argument.

No - it's actually been made. It's just not made very often because it's a stupid argument. Another reason besides the ones ---^ is that legally, a woman's word was often worth 1/2 of a man's.

What in your opinion warrants the statement that this argument is stupid?
izbo10
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9/23/2011 9:57:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/23/2011 7:39:03 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 9/23/2011 3:43:58 PM, izbo10 wrote:
Many christians use as a justification for the resurrection that the first witnesses were women. They claim this was not common in that time period and makes no sense. This line of reasoning seems to make sense, until you realize that Paul's churches often had strong female leadership. Paul's writings actually show a strong sense towards women being involved. There are only w passages that are against this, one which appears in 1 Timothy which probably wasn't written by Paul, and one in 1 Cor. which appears to be a later addition. If you take those out of Paul's work women were playing a key role throughout the birth of Orthodox christianity.

To further this problem for this argument, by mid to late 2nd century(160-190) there was a book written called the acts of Thecla, with the protaganist being a strong woman and woman playing almost all the good roles. Thecla was determined to follow Paul and several women helped her through many execution attempts. The objection I see coming here is that, well this is 80 to a 100 years later. Well, many scholars believe this forged work was based off of long held stories from much earlier. What we do know is in early christianity a story, that most christians don't believe, involved a strong woman as lead. These stories are not true based off the woman being a lead. the actual logic just does not follow through. The fact that Thecla was a woman and the lead does not mean that she was actually protected by a lioness and god killed a vat of man eating seals with a lightning bolt. How does the woman discovering the tomb differ?


The statements are:
if you are going to write a story at 33 A.D. and wanted it believed, then you would want men to find the tomb empty.

The reason? No culture at 33 A.D. placed a value on women anywhere near that of a man. Not the Roman culture, Not the Jewish Culture, Not the Greek Culture and certainly not the persian culture...

By 150-200 A.D. it is Christianity alone that permeated the region with an equal status of women among men as peers in Christ.

Do you understand the difference between the timeframes and cultures of the regions that makes this practical thinking a readily applied truth?

You do understand Mark wasn't written until at least 65-70 CE, 15 years after Paul was changing the social landscape for women in the proto-orthodox christian world. The stories of Thecla were probably already growing at this time. What we need to worry about is what someone creating a story in 65-85 CE would think, not 33 CE. By 65 CE, the christian worldview was changed by one hell of a marketing man, Paul.
DDO's marketing strategy has certainly paid off just not sure I agree with the target market: http://tinypic.com...
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